Just another cry in the dark

RE: Sameer JB Reply#4

May I ask why you insist on re-inventing the wheel? Before you get defensive, allow me to make it very clear that I am NOT preparing a case for Islamists or Mullahs. This post is only intended to initiate an academic discussion on, what happens if Pakistan becomes secular.

If in your mind, India is a model state to follow, on the basis of secularism and democracy, I would say that it goes against all logic and common sense. In a nutshell, the difference between India and Pakistan is that, Indians were able to keep their right to choose their exploiters, in all 53 years, whereas Pakistanis were not. If according to you the process of “natural selection” brings forth ‘the better’ eventually, an objective analysis tells us that Indians are not even close. If ever-changing state and federal governments in India are a sign of flourishing democracy I would say what Nehru used to say about Pakistan, “I have never changed as many ‘dhottis’ in my life as Pakistan changes its governments”. If we measure the outcomes of a true democracy i.e. social justice, strong local government, less government, strong regional economy, enforcement of law, deliverance of justice and so on, I would say that Indians are no way better than Pakistanis.

Let’s see if you have Turkey in your mind. Turkey is even worst off after 75 years. Kamalism has always been and it is still on life support by establishment, Martial law, and totalitarian governments. Even official school curriculum and enforcement of Kemalism by draconian laws has changed nothing. Turkey is rated among the worst human rights offenders in the world. If Turkey lifts ban on certain parties especially Islamic parties, I really doubt that Kemalism will survive more than two (fair) elections.

Because of the unique historical background of Pakistan, if it is secularized, it can either become a miniature version of India or a distorted version of Turkey. Again because of this historical background we can not become a (fill in the blank) version of Sweden or Canada or US or Japan or France. It just can not happen because history will always get in the way.

So my question is why we need to reinvent the wheel?

Come on Mian, prove your love for Pakistan to ylh. All of you, including Fuzair, SameerJB, temporal, and hamidm, prove your love for Pakistan to ylh.

How could you write such an article? Don`t you see the Tom Cruise look in the PAF pilot as he flies around conquering enemy after enemy? Don`t you see that Michael Jordan like leap Shoaib makes when bowling a yorker? How could you say there`s something wrong with Pakistan after witnessing that? Crazy fool.

Might I suggest that you all gather together and in harmony and sing aloud:

``jiye pakistan, jiye pakistan. kill the indians, save kashmir. reproduce and donate a mujahideen or two. save pakistan from the invading Indians who want more muslims despite the fact that they hate their own muslims. and so on...``

RE: Kafir Khan Reply#12

Dear Kafir,

May God bless you, you are a bona fide kafir.

Thanks for your enlightening post.

Ferozk:#9

Your anguish is shared,I think,by most of us here.It is your frustration which is difficult to understand for me.You mentioned so many times about your `American connections` that now I must point out to you that one of the most prized asset and achievement of the Americans has been their boundless enthusiasm and a fanatic belief in making `impossible`,possible.

Such were we once.

Out of all the great Americans it is Emerson who became their national-psyche & revelrie-clarion.

Such galvanisers are always needed to act as the instruments to bring all the beams of thought and bend them into one-Laser beam.Such laser beams have the power to sear its way through steel or repair a damaged cornea.Drops,when they accumulate can be harnessed into dams and channeled into streams which generate electricity for such lasers.

Intellectualism,rationalitiy,loves-me/loves-me-not

are the pastimes of achievers & laurel earners.Firefighters & frontier-guards cannot afford such `luxuries`.They should `fight` first and ask questions later.

This is not the time for Shakespeare or Mir Anees.

Emerson or Iqbal is the Siren-Call of the moment.



Whence did I suggest not to do the `thinking` or `solution` part? Must it be one or the other.Can`t they run concurrently,in tandem,symbiotically,coupled,in train--clasped?

Cool Rage & Heated Discussion is what we need.And let nobody feel here slighted,because we are all praying and pointing in the same direction.

_________________________________.

Our heads are high,our feet are firm and we are on

our way

The nosy neighbours,if they look,should cheer us and then say

`we won`t be in your way`.

(Sorry for these impromptu ashaars --just slipped out!!)



Messiah?

``Aur yeh saffak maseeha miray Qubzay mein naheen

Haan mgr teray siva,teray siva,teray siva``

Faiz Ahmad Faiz

(consoling a friend)

tr:You are your own maseeha.

Allah only turns around the fortunes of those nations who at least have a desire to want a change.(Quraan ul Hakeem).

__________________________________________________

``Koi Quabil ho tho hum shaan kayee datey hain

Dhoondnay vaalon ko duniya bhee nai daitay hain``

A L L A M A IQBAL

tr:For the deserving ones,WE bestow upon them the grandeur of a Caesar(1)

And for those who explore,We bring to them New Worlds.(2)

1--Ottomans 2.Columbus

__________________________________________________wassalaam

same old song with the same old verses... what we need are solutions .. not problem identifications..

today when i tried to clean my room (it wasn`t that bad).. it took me forever and still after 4 hours there wasnt a drastic change in the lookout. i think pakistan is like a dirty house (pardon my french). when someone takes charge, he finds more dust in the corners then he can cleanup. he is faced with a demoralizing senario and instead of cleaning it, he accepts the dust as a part of house. what can we do?

Chowkwala..

Adnan.

Re: Temporal

Sure, I will help you....sounds like a good project and speaking of old projects, do you remember IF.com? If you do, I am still interested and will be starting on it in a practical sense soon, but I have to do some preliminary work on it. Send me an e-mail and I will bring you up to speed!

Re: Kafir K Khan

Just one question mio amigio, why and how are we better off if India is worse than us? Does India`s being worse off solve all of our problems?

Those are Indian problems and not ours. We should be more concerned about solving our problems and than in finding comfort in India`s administrative headaches.

Comparing our problems with India`s and convincing ourselves that we are better off will do nothing for us at the end of the day, because our problems will still be unresolved.

If the Indians are obsessed with us, thats their problem and we should not play the same game and should, instead, concentrate on ourselves and our own set of problems.

Having said that, you are entirely free to disagree with me and I am sure Fargani Kush will encourage you to do so. However, all the comparsions aside, if Pakistan has no problems, as Fargani Kush and you seem to suggest, then could you explain how we are going pay off our external debt or that too is a figment of the so called ``ba ba ba blacksheeps```imagination?

I am searching for any good news from the Pakistan and instead of posting self deluding denials, could you gentlemen please specifically highlight Pakistan`s accomplishments, which would prove that Pakistan is indeed a nation, which is the envy of the world?

Ciao

Pakistan has seen nothing yet. Indians have outdone Pakistanis in the department of corruption. Do you have Minstry of procurement, animal husbandary, economics,commerce,trade. They even have a minister for textiles. Minster for railwys,surface transport as is civil aviation. How about minster for fisheries. Not only there is ministry for energy but also for oil. And Lo! there is a mister for coal and a saparate ministry for mines.

Now let me tell you what is happening. Nothing is being procured by the minister of procurement. It is only curing his pocket. I am not sure if animal husbandary minister is a good husband or trying to be a goofy animal. Is economics, commerce and trade one and the same thing.

As for civil aviation ministery, Air India has lost Rs. 1003 crores. Minister for railways can not explain why trains run 16 hours late on a journey of just 298 miles and surface transport minister said he does not have money to repair roads. If half the India`s population has no proper clothes to wear why have textile minister. He revealed another of India`s secret,country imports oil but thinks petrolium ministry will cover the shortages. It is a wishful thinking. AND WHAT ABOUT THE MINISTER OF FISH. Here is the list of lesser known ministeries in Bharat:

Minster for water resources, shipping,sports, exports-imports,information technology, minster for heavy industries in addition to industry, minister of disinvestment, leather technology, minstry of electronics, food processing.

AND do not forget minster for Broadcasting.

PAKISNAIS HAVE BEHAVED MUCH BETTER COMPARE TO INDIANS.

Feroz #9 and Sameer #8:

Is it time for the Chief Executive to open the third envelope?

(A retiring CEO of a Fortune 500 company gave a parting present of three numbered envelopes to his successor with the advice to open them if and when the company faced a grave crisis. Facing the first crisis the new CEO opened envelope marked one. The note inside read, “Blame it all on the former CEO.” He blamed everything on the former CEO and averted that crisis. Some years later the company faced another crisis. He opened the second envelop. “Blame everything on the Economy.” He did and survived. Short while later the CEO faced the third grave crisis. He opened the last envelop. “Prepare three envelops,” was the succinct note.)

regards,


t


PS: I am writing an outline for the next coup leader(s). Want to help?

temporal: I just read Khalid Ahmad`s introduction of Syed Qutb`s book. He gave more of an introduction to the life of Syed Qutb and not much reviewing of the book. The name Syed Qutb needs no introduction for this former jamaatia. He was a favorite of Saudi royal family, much like Maudoodi. Saudis were then supporting all anti-communist Islamic movements on the behest of USA, i.e., during the cold war. They now support the sunni, wahabi and anti-shia groups.

Syed Qutb would have remained a small time Islamists if it was not for his execution by Nasser and subsequent propaganda/ marketing by anti-Nasser forces in the Arab and Islamic world.

I think for now I will stand behind my assessment of Islamic system through Islamic Empires( post#4).

BTW, glad to see hamidm back. Hope to hear more from him about right and left side of the border.

Also read Such Gup and Nuggets from Urdu press at TFT website.

A concise article, which captured the plight of Pakistan quite well.

Pakistan, despite what Fargani Kush suggests, has problems and they need to be addressed, because simply ignoring them will not solve them.

We do not need a messiah or the Cliffnotes to the Y1K problem, as Jay suggested, but what we do need is an appreciation of reality and the environment of that particular reality, which engulfs us.

Today, I had an interesting discussion with a person, whose family converted to Islam, 300 years ago, and whose ancestors were once Rajputs. The discussion started on partition and it ended up as comparsion between the Muslims in India and those who migrated to Pakistan and what Nehru did right and what Pakistani politicans after Jinnah should have done and why, for a country created on the basis of an Islamic ideology we are not what we once promised ourselves to be.

53 years down the road, we are a middle aged country, which is increasingly becoming an orphan of the world. Two days ago, a friend blamed me, because of my American connections, for drying the life blood of Pakistan and when I retorted as to why Pakistan came with the begger`s bowl to Uncle Sam in 1950s in the first place, he merely smiled back.

These conversations forced me to wonder, just as the article does, what happened to the promise we were all promised? Then as often happens, I turned to that one solace, which comforts me when doubts oppress me and I discovered my way to a line from a poem called the ``Anthem For A Doomed Youth`` by Winfred Owen and the line was:

``and each slow dusk a turning down of the blinds``

The problem in Pakistan is that we have had leaders who were not leaders and captains who were not courageous and some where between hope and dispair, we discovered disillushionment and accepted mediocrity in exchange for a commitment for which our forefathers gave the last full measure of devotion and ended up practicing timocracy instead of democracy.

Like Shakespeare`s Falstaff in Henry V, we ritually sit on the ground and tell the sad tales of our past leaders and their downfalls, but we never taught ourselves to learn on how to avoid their mistakes. Now, 53 years later, we are wondering why we ended up in a cul-de-sac of misfortunes and diminishing options. Cassius would have told us something about our characters, but while we wait for an Ataturk we are still searching for answers as to who will rescue us from ourselves?

Like Mulder would say to Scully, ``the answer is out there``, we are hoping that some one will point us in the right direction and say,``there, but for the grace of God go I`` and as we travel on that path of broken hopes and dreams, everyone forgets to mention that our destination is continually receding and time is a luxury we can no longer afford, because as the Romans used to say once, the acta est fabula: the play is over and we have to pay for our sins gratification.

As we watch the proverbial sunset and the once bright hues of a day changing into a deep mulberry, we wonder if we should have paid more attention to what Rudyard Kipling once said of treating both triumph and defeat as an imposter and then with nothing to hope, but another dawn, we patiently look to the east and remind ourselves that it is always the darkest before dawn and so, will meander the days of our existence into hopefully something more meaningful than just an insignificance of the emptiness of our aspirations.

Ciao!

Khaled Ahmed

reviews
Sameer #4:

You say, ``In modern times, with international boundaries, only expansionism possible is in economy, education, and social justice and not in territories. This requires a new model for social justice and growth.``

There is a book review in the current Friday Times by Khaled Ahmed

SOCIAL JUSTICE IN ISLAM

by Sayyid Qutb

Islamic Publications International New York; Distributed by Vanguard Books Lahore; Pp339; Price $19.95

at http://www.thefridaytimes.com/

rgds

t

Eventhough you tried to be fair to everyone ... but your lack of knowledge and lack of maturity

appalls me ... your premise ofcourse is fair but your article doesnot suggest any solutions or for that matter identify the crux of the problem ...

Also it will be worthwhile for you to actually reaffirm in theforum itself that you love Pakistan because the Indians on this site are going to start claiming that Pakistanis want to rejoin India .... which is untrue

-Pakistan Zindabad

-Quaid e Azam Zindabad

-Jiye Bhutto

-Imran Khan for PM

Yasser Hamdani

Mian Mohyuddeen:

Friend of mine,be not be sad.Tough it is,but not that bad.The individual eddies of passions shall become the tornados of tomorrow.Keep moving,never be still.The stagnant & stale gather moss & lichens.

__________________________________________________

``Andhairi raat,judaa apnay quaflay sey hai thoo

teray liyay hai miraa sholaa e nava Quindeel``

tr:Dark,Dark is the night & you have gone astray from the caravan.(worry not) My searing cry would act like a beacon for you.

A L L A M A IQBAL

__________________________________________________

wassalaam.

Me thinks, aloud for all to hear, that it is time for God Almighty and/or Allah Subhanuthallah, to send down another prophet-cum-messiah to lead the people of Pakistan out of this fine mess and on to sirat-ul-mustaqeem so that His kingdom can finally be established.(Takbeer, anyone?)

The only problem is that He himself closed the door to this rather obvious solution ....... now He would be in big trouble with the Anjuman-Thafuffuz-i-Khatam-i- Nabuwat and the Green Hordes........ the Lord works in wonderous ways - sometimes stumping Himself !

Sir: You have correctly described the problems with the ruling elite but did not put forward any solution. The concept of bringing God back into life is a vague argument usually supported by religious and fundamentalist circles without any blue print, details or examples. Most Pakistanis do not think themselves as bad Muslims, though some think themselves as inferior Muslims as compared to Arabs, Persians, Afghans and Central Asian Turks.

It was a mistake for ruling elites to think in terms of political stability during the fifties which led to the Ist Martial Law. It would have been better to let the political evolution take place even at a faster rate with frequent government changes. Just like hit and trial in the natural world, we would have come out with honest and apt leadership through democracy, no matter how flawed it was to begin with. Martial Law in the name of political stability retards the process of natural selection. Sooner we return to democracy with even governments lasting for as little as 15 days, better it is for Pakistan because more the changes, more the chances of able and honest leadership. If Pervez Musharraf turns out to be no good, all we can do is to pray for next ten years. God has no role to play in the politics of Pakistan.

I am not sure if you are suggesting Islamic system or Islamic government as opposed to God in personal lives. The success of past Islamic empires can not be taken as a model for Pakitan in the late twentieth century. The Islamic Empires, sometimes, produced prosperity and intellectualism mainly when they were expansionists. The day Abbasids, Ottomans, Mughals and others stopped expanding, they started disintegrating. New territories always brought new ideas, new energies in addition to loot and plunder--to satisfy the above average rate of Muslim population growth. In modern times, with international boundaries, only expansionism possible is in economy, education, and social justice and not in territories. This requires a new model for social justice and growth. A system of government based on Islamic Empires model--without territorial expansion--is a recipe for disaster. Many nations of the world have achieved great successes through secularism, intellectualism, rationalism and liberal democracies. Why not follow the proven recipe for success?

Solving Y1K problem,

The real issue facing pakistan is that solving the Y1K problem. The world according to the book, which caused the creation of pakistan, is based on the logic of its time, which is in conflict with some of the newer paradigms. There have been some remarkable efforts by the CE, at last to face the reality and solve the Y1K issues.

To give an example, world according to the book had no clear boundaries, no notion of secure borders and controlling trade and movement of people. Pakistanis, knowing pretty well the TNT and the book, bring all sorts of goods from abroad, they move accross countries like the good old days. In the modern parlance, there should be customs, duty and above all some idea about what should be imported. A classic Y1K problem.

For the CE, he needs money to feed the army, according to the book, the profits earned by the traders can be considered a booty and the ruler should have a share. Here in is the ingenuity of the CE, the shops will be taxed not on the basis of the volume of sale, but by the SIZE of the shop. One shutter shop will be taxed 30,000 rupees a year, while two shutter shops will be taxed 50,000.

This is smartness, this is adapting the allegedly modern system to the dictates of the book. This is solving Y1K problem.

The suicide gangs of pakistan can try and think laterally, come with real and new Y1k problem.

Pakistans problem is not corruption, it is Y1K.

May be Ferozk and mian and bilal ahmed can take note.