Khuda Hafiz, Kashmir?

Umairr, nice points raised in your reply, just had a few comments on 2 observations which I noticed. The first commonly held opinion or observation is that Indians are taken in by the propaganda of the Indian government. My ruminations on this issue havent seem to have come up with any solution or conclusion. India has the 3rd largest technically trained manpower in the world, the education system is fairly liberal and humanist. The Hindu religion (along with all other religions) itself teaches to be tolerant and there are 1 billion of them and its a flourishing democracy. Needless to say, that the factors for a liberal tolerant society are there. In-spite of this, there is a persistent opinion amongst others that the Indian government is indulging in propaganda and the great Indian Diaspora has been taken in. In my opinion, there could be any of following reasons for this (or a combination of it). Firstly, we have a situation in which there is a mass fear of repression by state authorities which causes ordinary citizens to avoid seeing any dirty tricks by the government (as in the case of nazi Germany, common German folks, and the concentration camps or some of the Latin American countries back in the 60`s, 70`s). Second reason is that the Indian citizens/citizens are extraordinary trusting of its government and consequently takes the government line in its entirety (the Swedish population/citizen/political system is an example). Third reason could be that the Indian citizens/citizens are either too busy just trying to survive or are just too stupid to be challenge the government line (Zambia, Congo, etc.). Given the incidence of free press and its intrusive clamorous investigative journalism state, I somehow fail to find the underpinnings of this opinion. Is the answer just simply hatred towards the other religion which negates all the above factors? Is the flourishing democracy the reason why they tend to trust their leaders? Or is it something else? what do you think Umairr?? or have I got it completely wrong?

Second issue was with respect to the entry of human rights observers. If I try to put myself into the Indian government`s shoes, allowing the human rights monitors in is a loose loose situation. Currently, its answering the freedom-fight/militancy on multiple fronts - social, political, economic, religious, etc. etc. as well as military. Using conventional military and para-military forces to control terrorism unfortunately has a tendency to throw up human rights abuses. Simply because both sides are fighting using different rule books. Looking at it from an Indian Government angle, lets say that AI are invited in. They will slate both the militant groups as well as the Indian security services fairly even-handedly. So far so good. Unfortunately, the repercussions will be a double whammy on the Indian side. The Indian side will get excoriated from the world press and will have to take action. That action will provoke (1) widespread lack of motivation within the armed forces (2) the opposition political parties will play the jingoistic card and make merry and (3) will embolden the militant groups. On the other hand, these HR reports have NEVER had ANY impact whatsoever on the actual militant groups. The militant groups report to God, and I am afraid he doesn`t have email to read these reports, unlike the Indian Government who will have the foreign and Indian press baying like hyenas on these report and will have to report to the electorate. Any PR victories which the Indian government would like to propagate or make use of will be shrugged off as propaganda by the militants and Pakistan groups but could have a subtle but significant hardening of positions by the western governments and media. Consequently, Umairr, I would be surprised if the Indian government actually lets those guys in. Morally yes, it should be done. But the moral element can be taken to a flea shop and given away for what its worth as compared to the real politic issues involved.

Look forward to your comments.

cheers

bd

ps: Somebody had asked about secular nations where Muslims were in the majority, I forget which board or the inquirer. The ``Ba`ath`` (meaning resurrection or renaissance) was the name given by Michel Aflak, a Syrian Christian, to the progressive nationalistic party created in 1940`s. The aim of this party is/was a secular state and appeals to all inhabitants, whether Muslim or not. This party or its latter derivatives were and primarily in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. For what its worth, Saddam Hussein is a Baathist. Go figure.

pps, YLH, you mentioned that fanaticism and religious fundamentalism has to be curbed. I would be interested in knowing more about your opinions on the route plan which you think may be appropriate. Or if you could guide me towards any book / website which addresses this issue. Thanks in advance.

hamidm #83

Just a doubt: your own Indian Muslim friends, where are they?

Sadhana

Reply #: 74

Asif Naqshbandi

``

If you can do this--and the Pakistani Muslims can do the same to make their country modernised in a good sense and prosperous too--then insha Allah, together the musulmaans will one day again be the dominant poltical/economic force in the Subcontinent.

``

-- Asif, why is it important that musulmans should once again be dominant ? Are people of others religons not humans ? I object to any person who tries to see only his community successed. Perhaps that is the difference in outlook when one lives in Pakistan vs India.

My upbringing tells me that people of all religons should be given the opportunity to successed. Be it hindus, muslims or Sijhs.

AD

Finally a few questions to you: have you ever encountered hostility from the majority for your views? Are Indian Muslims generally made to feel like second-class citizens (before anyone says anything Pakistan does not claim to be secular)?

wa salaamu alaykum!

.....it is obvious that ylh, rsaxena, mcgupta, gymnosophist, sadna , tahmed and others are not going to resolve the Kashmir issue on the chowk ....... the rabid Indian fanatics are quite convinced that it is part and parcel of Akhand Bharat and the good ole Pakis are adamant that it should be part of the Land of the Pure ......so why waste time and energy on debating the difference between a mouse and a chachunder ..... can`t you guys think of something else to vent your youthful fury at? .....Some of you are probably running the risk of getting that dreaded ``C`` in Cal-III and then you will be doomed to slave as a management trainee at Radio Shack, or Allah forbid, working on a Ph.D. in Anthropology, Comparative Literature or something equally useless.......so quit beating your heads against the brick wall or, in the case of the Hajjoj and the Mahjoog, trying to tunnel under it......

.......on another note ....The saffron brigade is always anxious to point out that we, the Pakis, are related to them, gene-pool and all that..... then how come I hardly see any Indian Hindus at all these Indian Muslim high school graduations and weddings that I am dragged out to attend.... and mind you these are getting to be hideously ostentatious affairs with everyone trying to outdo the Sheiks and Bhattis ...... All the Indians on the Chowk claim to have Muslim friends - where are they ? .....maybe they have invisible Muslim friends like all those Black friends that blue-blood WASPs claim to have ......The only back guy I expect to see at my neighbor`s picnic tomorrow is the pool-man ......I assume our Indian friends have a Muslim gardener or maid who double-time as friends in their delusions ......

Ref Asif Naqshbandi #: 74

You said {Your article showed that indeed the Muslim voice in India which demands the same rights for Muslims as for anyone else is not yet dead and that is a good sign. But is your voice the voice of a minority or a voiceless majority?}

If the Muslims of India would spend their time learning something other than Arabic and Urdu, they would realize what their rights are under the Constitution and exercise them, as Farzana has done. If they think that reading the Qur`an in the original is the best way to get Allah to provide for them, THEY have a serious problem; not the rest of the Indians.

You said {Certainly, Pakistan has a moral and religious duty to help the Kashmiris to this goal but i do not think it is morally right for Pakistan to claim the land of Kashmir as its own and neither do I think India can make that claim. Kashmir for the Kashmiris.}

In that case, the APHC can hold talks with Pakistan to liberate Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas and then demand talks with India on independence for the Kashmir Valley. There is no reason for the APHC to imitate its masters and demand that the talks be tri-partite between, India, Pakistan and Kashmiris. And the APHC has chosen not to contest a single seat in the Kashmir Assembly so far, because of the threat of getting a bullet in the head.

You said {If the Muslims of India can be united and put pressure on their government to work towards Kashmiri autonomy it will be a good step forward and Pakistan should encourage it.}

The last time this was done (and not even by popular Muslim vote but by megalomaniac politicians), we ended up with half a million dead and 10 million transplanted. Anytime Indian Muslims are seen advocating the disintegration of India, they can expect some strong reaction. Even the tolerant United States asks the question on its visa form: Have you ever advocated the overthrow of the government of the United States by subversion or violence? Anyone attempting to speak on behalf of ceding territory to another government would be a fifth-columnist. You really don`t want the Muslims of India, who are already trying hard to wipe out the sins of Jinnah and Liaquat Ali and Suhrawardy, to start paying on the next set of blood debt.

You said {One person has hinted strongly that you should go to the Land of the Pure! So much for the much-vaunted Hindu tolerance! Let us hope such voices are in a minority...}

Farzana does not belong to the Fourth Estate but to the fifth column. That is the problem. I am glad to see you are not trotting out examples of Qur`anic tolerance such as shown in Afghanistan and, more recently, in the Philippines.

You said {Also, the Muslims inside Hindustan must educate themselves and better themselves so that they can become economically independent of the majority --once the Muslims are educated and financially strong they will be able to influence events in India for the betterment of themselves and their brethren elsewhere; they will be able to influence indian foreign and domestic policies away from the current bias towards al-Islam (and Pakistan). Indeed, in India you are lucky to have some of the greatest Muslim scholars alive today like the descendents of Ala Hazrat alayhi rahmat. Benefit from them.}

Now you have a point. If these guys would at least send their daughters to school if not their sons (in fact, in the place of their sons) Muslim society would improve in one generation. One may not like what one sees as a result (it would not be Islamic in the Qur`anic sense as you interpret it) but they would be a damn sight better off than they are today. At least Farzana has the freedom not to wear a burqa as opposed to the girls of Srinagar who cannot wear jeans without having acid thrown on their faces.

You said {Once Advani said that the Muslims of India were a `bomb` which Pakistan had inside India (!).}

That was during his Muslim-baiting days. Even he recognizes that Muslims are the missiles of India aimed at Pakistan: they deflect any Pak criticism of India by standing up for their country.

You said {Use your talents and education to prove him right! BUT not to weaken Hindu India--but to strengthen Muslim India! Let all the top scientists, doctors, engineers, architects, artists in India all be Muslims--then see India change from the inside!}

MFHusain - Painter

Azim Premji - Businessman

Muhammadali Currim Chagla - Foreign Minister (1965)

Hidayutallah - Chief Justice

Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed - President

People too numerous to mention: Active in the film industry as lyricists, music direcors, actors, directors, etc.

Serving in the Armed Forces of India with great honor and distinction and reaching the ranks of Chief of the Air Force and Deputy Chief of the Army.

Those Muslims who had the self-confidence to feel that they could beat the Hindus at their game stayed back in India and are proving their point every day. The rest demanded their own country or moved there.

Ref krashid #: 71

You said {And those regions belong to the people of that area. Like bengal belongs to Bengalis, Tamil Nadu to Tamils, Or Gujrat and Bombay to Gujratis.}

In that case, why don`t YOU tell the APHC that Ladakh belongs to Ladakhi Buddhists, most of Jammu to Hindus and parts of the Kashmir Valley to the Pundits so the APHC can shut about a ``united`` Jammu & Kashmir under its independent rule and accept a moth-eaten Kashmir Valley to rule over?

Naqshbandi ...

I am an ardent supporter of Pan Islamism but because it is going to be mutually beneficial for all Muslim countries ...

But all this Islam transcends nationalities ... is

meaningless to me and let me tell you that you Mr.Naqshbandi are extremely damaging to the cause of Pakistan ...

One cannot but feel sorry for Talha (May Allah rest his soul in peace) .... the rioting is indeed a bad thing .... India should provide more security for Indian Muslims who are NOT Pakistani but Indian ... they are their own !

As for us Pakistanis ... we can only feel relieved that we are not forced to go through the same ordeal as our Indian co religionists ...

But we too need to curb fanaticism and religious fundamentalism which Jinnah had spoken against, and which an antithesis to Pakistan`s ideology which is fairplay and shielding minorities from the tyranny of the Majority ...

We too need to finish the sectarian killing ....

and eventhough it is on a much smaller scale the Shia Sunni conflict is no less dangerous ...

The solution is what Ataturk did ... and what I think Quaid e Azam would have done had he lived ..

outlawing all religious parties and placing religion under state control... Only then can we lay the foundations for fairplay ... After all Turk nationalism was rooted in common religious beliefs also ... if they can be secular .. we can be too ....

Pakistan Zindabad!

Asif Naqshbandi #74

``However, regrettably, from the reaction to your article from your Hindu countrymen (and women) it does not seem like you are currently their favourite person``

``So much for the much-vaunted Hindu tolerance``

So much for the much-vaunted Islamic tolerance. Aren`t Hindus allowed to dissent with views of Muslims, does it always have to come down to religion? Victimhood and delusions of grandeur, both simultaneously? Wheres that much-vaunted egalitarianism?

Sadhana

And the way you came down on Umairr for using East Pakistan is wrong ...

We all admit that what happened in Bangladesh was wrong ... and unlike Indians who still have hindutvistic fantasies nobody in Pakistan wishes to reunify Bangladesh with Pakistan... as a matter of fact every single Pakistani in Pakistan wishes Bangladesh well....

Maybe a simple thing like ``Pakistan board was the staunchest supporter for Bangladesh`s bid for test status`` will tell you the story ...

Quite a contrast from how India behaves ???

What gymnophist forgets when he talks about movements is that Jinnah was perhaps the most vocal anti-raj person ... later on he also became the vocal proponent of South Asian Muslim nationhood ...

Surely now Gymnophist doesnot forget the treaties between Greece, Britain, France, Italy and Turkey ... the treaty of Lausanne and the agreement thereafter in which religion was declared the basis of ethnicity ... all Muslims of Greece and Armenia were to become turks and all turk christians were to become Greeks and Armenians ...



Surely you dont deny that the exoduses that happened then were greater than our own ... for ours was a great tragedy but not the first of its kind ...

Its time that you threw away your prejudices because they really are the real cause of problem between India Pakistan relations ....

And this myth of Independence struggle is astonishing ... REMEMBER if there hadnt been a

World War 2 there would be no independence ...

and since the World War 2 happened ... independence struggle or no independence struggle .... the Sub Continent would have been free sooner or later...

The so called independence struggle that you cherish is just another one of those historical fallacies that are there to glorify certain leaders who really dont deserve to be done so ...

As for the Pakistan Movement, it was the epitome of the Modern principles of fair play .... the right of self determination and is in line with the Modern concept of Nation States .. Muslims of post world war 2 India constituted a seperate nation, an unnamed nation, just like the Muslims of Post World War 1 Ottoman Empire constituted a nation, the Turk Nation, just like Muslims of former Yugoslavia constitute a nation,......

The Pakistan Movement itself was not a religious movement ... it was a National movement ...

And is there any achievement greater than success of winning a country against all odds .... including the British who till this day mourn the partition no matter what Indians of modern India like to believe ... British didnot want Partition ... We wanted it ...We got it.... and nobody should take an offence to this because this is not anti-Indianism or anything but just facts, objective simple facts ... to state otherwise like some of not-so-well-read people on this forum have ... is just distortion of History ...

Its time everyone smelt the cofee and woke up...

Surely Gymnophist if you are older than me ... Age is no guarantee of Sagacity ....

-Pakistan Zindabad

-Quaid e Azam Zindabad

-Ataturk Zindabad

-Jiye Bhutto

-Imran Khan for PM

Yasser Hamdani

Ref Umairr #: 68

You said {The Kashmir movment is as much a freedom movement as the Indian and Pakistani freedom movement against the British.}

The PAKISTANI freedom movement against the British? That is a laugh! Can you list the names of prominent leaders of the Muslim League that spent time in jail in British India for fighting for freedom? Can you give us an approximate number (in tens, hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands... choose any scale that is appropriate for the purpose) of the number of Muslim League grass-root workers who went to jail fighting for freedom? Even in Sindh or NWFP? (I prefer that you pick only those who were charged under the Sedition Act, not those common criminals arrested for rape, loot and arson.)

You said {E. Pakistan was invaded by an Indian democracy.}

I know it is hard for you die-hard Pakistanis but can you for once try saying ``Bangladesh``?

You said {Pakistan has only invaded disputed and occupied area, India has always invaded internationally recognized borders}

So, exactly what were the tribal irregulars backed by Pak Army doing in Baramaulla on Oct 24, 1947? What was disputed territory at that time? Was Kashmir under a dispute between India and Pakistan on that date?

You said {India is also responsible for the nuclear arms race in South Asia.}

Nobody asked Bhutto to embark on a nuclear arms race if Pakistan cannot afford it. Did any Indian leader say Indians will eat grass rather than forego nuclear weapons when China tested its bomb in 1964? In fact, didn`t Bhutto make that statement about eating grass in 1965, much before there was an Indian Bomb? I can just see it: Mommy, mommy, big bad India made me do it.

You said {It is also trying its best to accelerate the conventional arms race in South Asia. Kindly check the current Indian military budget increase.}

And exactly what was the state of the Indian military from 1947 to 1962? Who was getting arms from the US -- freebies, if I may add -- in the name of anti-Communist bloc? Who got arms from 1980 - 1989 from the US -- freebies once again -- to fight the Russians in Afghanistan? Exactly how many sorties did those F-16s fly against the Russians in Afghanistan? I understand they are now flying in support of the Taliban.

You said {These are documented facts.}

Exactly!

Umairr : as far as I am aware, sporadically before 1998, and regularly since 1998, a variety of foreign government delegations, foreign human rights observers, and foreign correspondents have been visiting Kashmir, with the full blessings of the Government of India. And the result has been that many of them have returned with a greater sympathy for India`s position.

-arun gupta

First of all let me address my dear buddy gymnosophist who wrote:

[quote]``I

expect Asif Naqshbandi any day to come out and quote the Qur`an

to prove why non-Muslims should be killed and their women taken

into harems.``[unquote]

I wish you would stop atttributing positions to me which I don`t hold just to make a silly anti-Muslim point. When have I said that all the non-Muslims of Kashmir must be killed and their women enslaved? (The issue of the permissibility or otherwise in Shariat of taking war booty in an *offensive * jihad is not relevant in any way here and need not be discussed vis-a-vis the Kashmir problem. End of matter. Now will you grow up?)

Right. Coming to the main article by Farzana ji first of all let me say ``assalamu alaykum`` peace be upon you from my heart to your heart.

It was very heartening to see the unfettered voice of Muslim India being heard for once in this age of BJP rule and xenophobia in the great land of Hindustan which once belonged to our ancestors as much as it did to anyone, before the onset of British rule and afterwards. In fact, who is to say that the Muslims of Hindustan are not equal guardians of this land of al-Hind along with, if not more than, the other peoples? The blood and sweat of many great Muslim rulers mingled with the native Hindi soil to make Hindustan what it is today; indeed, it can be said that India saw its most glorious epoch under the rule of the Muslim dynasties...so, it is with great pleasure that I welcome a fellow Muslim on board this outpost in cyberspace...Khush aamadeed!

Excuse the trip into nostalgia there Farzana! (I always get a bit dewy-eyed and nostalgic when talking about India--especially to an Indian Muslim). Your article showed that indeed the Muslim voice in India which demands the same rights for Muslims as for anyone else is not yet dead and that is a good sign. But is your voice the voice of a minority or a voiceless majority?

Coming to Kashmir, which is the sine qua non, of India-Pakistan relations-the heart of the matter--I agree with you that the best solution will be to give independence to the Kashmiris separate from both India and Pakistan. Certainly, Pakistan has a moral and religious duty to help the Kashmiris to this goal but i do not think it is morally right for Pakistan to claim the land of Kashmir as its own and neither do I think India can make that claim. Kashmir for the Kashmiris.

Having said that, I think that given Pakistan`s own precarious situation at present (and the pathetic state of the Ummah in general) a military solution towards Kashmiri independence is not currently viable (as SameerJB says (?) if we can just about hold ourselves together, how can we dream of liberating Kashmir even though our hearts may say `yeah!`?) especially given the horrifying prospect of nuclear armaggedon); therefore the main aim should be to save the lives of the innocent Muslims of Kashmir from Hindu aggression and human rights violations and therefore the idea of an autonomous Kashmir (even if within the Indian state) is better than the current situation and Pakistan should encourage the brethren to accept such a situation if offered.

Though some brothers in Pakistan may see this as a step down and a humiliating defeat we should remember that strength is needed to combat strength and also that Jerusalem wasn`t conquered at the first attempt...;-)

If the Muslims of India can be united and put pressure on their government to work towards Kashmiri autonomy it will be a good step forward and Pakistan should encourage it.

I even would go so far as to say that perhaps-given the current status quo in Kashmir-the mujahideen should suspend their operations and see if this brings any peace to the oppressed folk. After all, if the mujahideen stop the fighting and the Hindu army still continues in its aggression against Muslim civilians in the current barbaric fashion, the jihad can be started again. But let us give them the chance. After all, the TOP priority must be the stop in lootings and killings of innocent civilians...

However, regrettably, from the reaction to your article from your Hindu countrymen (and women) it does not seem like you are currently their favourite person or that they are interested in giving the Kashmiris even autonomy let alone independence. This does not surprise me given the Hindu BJP mindset vis-a-vis Islam and Indian Muslims in general. One person has hinted strongly that you should go to the Land of the Pure! So much for the much-vaunted Hindu tolerance! Let us hope such voices are in a minority...

Still, the fact is the Ummah is weak and we have to recognise this. Therefore we must bargain from this realistic opinion...even if it means that for the foreseeable future we might have to swallow some bitter pills.

A Kashmir solution of whatever sorts-autonomy or independence--would free both India and Pakistan to put their resources to the betterment of their peoples lives. Even from the point of view of Kashmir, losing Kashmir temporarily or even permanently now might not be so bad if say in twenty years Pakistan is a prosperous, developed-and therefore strong--country. BECAUSE then we can *force * the rights of the Kashmmiris to be met but not from the current position of weakness. We must remember the various peace treaties Our Blessed Rasool alayhi afdalus salaat o salaam made with the Meccan kuffaar. In the end the victory was to the Believers. Patience and real-politik are the needs of the day...(of course if the scenario in the middle east changes for the better and a real islamic leadershp emerges over the next decade which is pan-Islamic, they could easily get Kashmir independent simply by placing an oil and trade embargo on India.)

Also, the Muslims inside Hindustan must educate themselves and better themselves so that they can become economically independent of the majority --once the Muslims are educated and financially strong they will be able to influence events in India for the betterment of themselves and their brethren elsewhere; they will be able to influence indian foreign and domestic policies away from the current bias towards al-Islam (and Pakistan). Indeed, in India you are lucky to have some of the greatest Muslim scholars alive today like the descendents of Ala Hazrat alayhi rahmat. Benefit from them.

Once Advani said that the Muslims of India were a `bomb` which Pakistan had inside India (!). Use your talents and education to prove him right! BUT not to weaken Hindu India--but to strengthen Muslim India! Let all the top scientists, doctors, engineers, architects, artists in India all be Muslims--then see India change from the inside!

If you can do this--and the Pakistani Muslims can do the same to make their country modernised in a good sense and prosperous too--then insha Allah, together the musulmaans will one day again be the dominant poltical/economic force in the Subcontinent.

This all begins with a view/solution for Kashmir based on hosh not josh (in the past i have been guilty of advocating josh--I realise now that in the nuclear age it is with hosh that one will prevail, not with josh.)

And there is no power nor strength save from Allah, The Most High, the Magnificent.

Finally a few questions to you: have you ever encountered hostility from the majority for your views? Are Indian Muslims generally made to feel like second-class citizens (before anyone says anything Pakistan does not claim to be secular)?

wa salaamu alaykum!

Umairr

{{A lot of things seem to be happening on the diplomatic front regarding Kashmir. Turbulence is a sign of progress, it is said. If that is to be believed, then it seems the wheels are in motion, and something may happen. Hopefully something good.}}

I share that hope too.

What I`m MOST dissapointed was what happened at the recent OIC conference. They passed yet another ``resolution`` about Kashmir. If they are so ``resolute``, they (esp the oil rich states) should threaten an emargo against India & bring this sad state of affairs to a merciful end.

The Indian govt is, as you say, in a damned if you do & damned if you dont situation. You cant untangle this gridion`s knot by diplomatic wrangling. The only possible solution is to cleanly cut it. An oil embargo is the only possible ``cut``.

I think these ``resolutions`` are passed only to appease Pakistan. The FM can go back to the country & proudly display the diplomatic ``victory``. In reality, like always, its dead on arrival--like it has sooo many times before.

Its high time the OIC puts some teeth on these farcical resolutions. It has the means, but not the will to do it. What in God`s name is the matter with them? Dont they realise that muslims are being killed?!

India is very skilled at twisting, turning & delaying negotiations. Everybody knows this & no one wants to admit its a waste of time. Americans use economic sanctions at the drop of the hat. Why cant the Arabs & Iranians do that? Its frustrating to see their leaders visit India (or invite Indian leaders to their country) & exchange niceties. They should have the balls to do some arm twisting.

It churns me that my country is engaged in this gross violation of human rights. It churns me that they would rather divert their meager resources to Kashmir than use it for human development for the rest of the country. I cant, for the life of me, understand why the Arabs & Iranians cant help the Kashmiris. By doing that, they will do India a great service too. India cant hope to be a respected economic power as long as it hangs on to Kashmir.

Umairr,

{{I have yet to see any Indian criticize the Indian govts.` policies in Kashmir (apart from a few Indian HR organizations, which are doing good work--}}

Farzana Versey is an Indian!

At the end of her article, Chowks says:

````Farzana Versey is a widely read and respected author and columnist in India. Her columns appear in publications like Times Of India, Indian Express, Mid-Day etc. She is particularly famous for her extremist and anti-establishment views.````



I think you are being a tad too presumptious when you make such sweeping generalisations about Indians. Obviously, you havent read critical articles by several respected Indian journalists about the govt`s Kashmir policies.

In another post (somewhere in chowk), you alluded to the fact that no Indian ever criticises their govt`s actions, whereas Pakistanis have the ``maturity`` to admit when they are wrong--or something to that effect--

Puhleeaase get off that pious soapbox!!:)

I post on chowk sporadically. I have been quite critical of my govt . For eg, see my post on ``Fighting in Peace by Aisha`` (# 115).

OK OK if it makes you feel any better, I`ll let you in on a secret--shhh!!--dont tell anyone!--all of us Indians on chowk meet in a secret chatroom & coordinate our replies against the anti-indian tirades from across the border!

ASK #54

I take your point of view as it is written.

And as you mentioned things have changed in past 50 years after UN resolution.

Now with the ground realities in Kashmir, what do you think.

First of all a country is its people. Particularly with a country like India where there are many regions with distinct etnicities and history. And those regions belong to the people of that area. Like bengal belongs to Bengalis, Tamil Nadu to Tamils, Or Gujrat and Bombay to Gujratis. There is a union of these states to form India and not the other way round. If a region or people think, that they just don`t want to live independently, it is their choice. Particularly in a situation like Kashmir where more than 25,000 to upto 80,000 people (according to different estimates), it is time to reconsider the realities. And one thing is clear that without people`s support no movement can succed.

Laymen!

In your article where you are politely threatening Indian Muslims, if they took a stand on Kashmir other than your point of view. I can only say, our forefathers were very fore sighted when they created Pakistan for Muslims of India.