Khuda Hafiz, Kashmir?

Farzana:

Welcome to Chowk and hope you will participate actively in the inter-acts.

Must warn you though. Come here in full riot gear! The inevitable pissing matches go on long after the sustaining fluids have drained off.
I will avoid commenting on the subject matter. You will soon get an earful from others.

I liked your style. Short, powerful sentences. Reminded one of staccato gunfire. And you don’t believe in taking any prisoners, do you? I hope you will be a regular contributor here.

Now, if only Chowk could harness Varsha!

regards,

temporal

Farazana:

ALLAH U AKBAR!!!-----ALLAH U AKBAR!!!!

Allah kee rehmat ka saya

tauheed ka purcham lehraya

ai marde mujahid jaag zara

ubb vaqt e shahadat hai aya

ALLAH U AKBAR!!!!-----ALLAH U AKBAR!!!!



``Al jazair sey ikk shola e javvala uthaa

hotay hotay vohee Kashmeer tuk aa pohnchaa

hindiyo mard e mujahid sey naa uljho,dekho

tum mein eeman kee taquat hay naa lurr mrney kee

HAAT MUZLOOM KA SHUMSHEER TUK AA POHNCHAA HAI

__________________________________________________

May Allah Bless you with all his bounties.

__________________________________________________

WASSALAAM.

Its hard to figure who the author is hitting out at exactly, some key words here and their `minority`, `guilt` `hate simmering`.

So let me latch on to this statement:

``What article has prevented the Nagas, the Mizos, the Khalistanis and the Dalits from being part of the mainstream?``

What indeed? A `Khalistani` was only the highly respected Finance Minister of India(and competing with a person of Italian birth as Prime Ministerial candidate till he made a stupid statement regarding Congress `disinvolvement` in the Delhi Sikh riots).

A Dalit is only the highly and widely respected President of India(his and others `origins` are not considered relevant information until idiots like this author and many chowkwallahs think fit to start whining) A recent photograph in India Abroad typified `out of mainstream` nature of so many in India, the Indian women MPs attending the UN womens conference in New York had among others Phoolan Devi, a former dacoit and Mayawati who once happened to be Chief Minister of only India`s largest and most populous state somehow managed in between being out of mainstream.

Bravo! Bravo! to the author. I didnot know whining was such lucrative business.

We have to know better than to associate `impotent demagogues` with a larger mass of any group of people. The question is, do those in the journalism respect their profession (and themselves) enough to care to show up these distinctions with a truthful, balanced and fair treatment of all, or do they promote a demagoguery of their own for the purposes of career advancement, which is why other demagogues are in business, too?

Sadhana

Farzana:

Welcome to the Vipers Pit! This the second article I have read, by an Indian, suggesting that India is losing Kashmir, because of its own confusion on the matter.

If people are interested, there was an interesting article on CNN`s Contintental Drift saying that Abdullah has done the impossible: He has managed to get the APHC, Indians and Pakistan all agree on the same thing; his idea is non-sense and that in itself, is real progress! Vive l`Abdullah!

Farzana, just out of curiousity, why the dejected tone of your article? They say that press mirrors its readers thought and if so, how many people in India empathise with your article`s intent? What is really happening in India, which the government in New Delhi is denying?

This could be an interesting discussion!

Re: Temporal

Yaar, you have been silent on my post on that other article...didn`t depress you did I?

Ciao!

dear farzana,

welcome to chowk. chowk has many streets and, like feroz pointed out, your article has taken your right onto viper street. it`s a topic thats been done many many times over, but this article was different in that it was very well written. i`m looking forward to reading more.

shandana

Farzana,

Your article is thought provoking and is doubtless to provoke all sorts or arguments and emotive responses. That`s all the credit you could possibly take.



But your views lack depth and critical understanding of situations and feelings.

You felt it, so you wrote it; you did not ponder much over it. You compared Netaji to the present day terrorists. To you India is equivalent to Britain, and Pakistan to Germany,Japan et al. Prior to becoming a colony, was India ever related to Britain in any way as Kashmir is to India? Demand of secession is same as fighting against imperialism/colonialism, in your words.

This autonomy bill demands that the supreme court has no jurisdiction over the state. No judgement passed by the J & K high court can be challenged in the supreme court of India. So the judicicary leg of Indian constitution is quashed.

Election Commission has no business to be there. So democracy as a right to all Indian citizens does not hold good over J&K.

No non-kashmiri Indian citizen can ever settle there. Even in matters of defence, the J&K govt. will have a say, though the final authority will be the central govt. What a concession! This bill will never be passed. It is a farce; even

Farooq knows it too well.

You talk of your friend, a qualified engineer who is unemployed. There are lakhs of such engineers,doctors,MBAs roaming in this country. If poverty,corruption,unemployment are the criteria then J&K is nothing special. Infact it is better off than Bihar,Orissa,Rajasthan,madhya Pradesh and UP.

The best part is your talk of insecurity. Aren`t the minorities in India much better off than their counter parts in many parts of the world? You think India is like phillipines,indonesia,pakistan,fiji and many more such nations?

Is 16% of 1 billion a minority?

Why do you have to blame your insecurity on the majority? And please do not create any juxtaposition of minorites using any scale that you can think of.

Secularism is the new buzzword in India. Just like you feel you always have to show that you are

broadminded, hindus always have to prove that they are secular. If you put a tilak on your forehead, you would be taken as a follower of bajrang dal.

There are versions of RSS everywhere, in every country, in every community but that doesn`t point to the people as such. Minorities in India have never been treated like Indians in Fiji,

whites in Zimbabwe, christians in Indonesia,blacks in US. Need I mention Pakistan! There are

so many such examples.

Your insecurity as a minority is surreal. There are villages and towns in India where muslims are in majority, who is more insecured there? Whom should the hindus blame?

There will always be elements to play upon the fears of minority and majority.

It is upto us, the people of India to

keep them at bay. But you have already

drawn up conclusions.

You were always biased, even before the autonomy bill was passed, even before Azhar`s name cropped up in match fixing, Nay even before the masjid demolition.

You would support anything you identify yourself with, whether right or wrong.

What can I reason with you?

Nothing withstanding, It IS my Kashmir afterall.

until next time,

pullu

Dear Farzana ,

Welcome to CHOWK Farzana Varsey!
I`ve been reading some of your stuff in the past
couple of years and am really glad to see your
work here.
``Khuda Hafiz, Kashmir`` is not an unrealistic
slogan these days. In the past Farooq has been
a spoiler and in my opinion remains so.
Autonomy is too little too late.

Re: Reply #1 Temporal,

Anyone but Varsha. Can`t stand that ``lady``!

Ras

Ras #9:

[Anyone but Varsha. Can`t stand that ``lady``!]

LOL.

She is open yet clever, stylist, hip, opinionated a little obstinate perhaps and loud and can hold her ground. Just the prescrition Chowk needs to force `certain` interactors consider the positive aspects of hara kiri. Just a thought;)

rgds

t

Farzana,

Speaking for myself, I will continue to associate myself emotionally and in pursuit of my interests with all those `self-respecting` minorities and `majority` groups whether related or unrelated to my own origins, however hard people like you try to push me into the pocket or pigeonhole designated by you for me.

Sadhana

BTW, looks like I should identify my religion and caste, right, so you may know whether to berate me or not? I am a Hindu vaish(of all people surely you must know what that is?) from UP/Rajasthan.

Every Kashmiri I ever met, and I`ve met a lot, have identified themselves as KASHMIRIS, not Pakistanis, not Indians, not even Desis.

So who are we (Pakistanis and Indians) to decide Kashmir`s future.

Back in my undergraduate days, I organized a Pakistan and Kashmir cultural night which featured Kashmiri food, clothing, and a sense of Kashmiri pride. We were 20 Pakistani students who believed in Kashmir`s independence. We invited the Indian Students Association (1000 members) to take part in the event and appreciate Kashmiri culture.

Three Indian students (two were my friends, and one just liked me) , 250 Kashmiri`s , 300 Pakistanis from the community and students from various colleges attended the event. The numbers alone are enough to make my point about Indians` attitude towards Kashmir.

I have never seen any compassion in Indians for the state of Kashmir and Kashmir`s people. It has always been an imperealistic attitude. It has been a possessive attitude.

The best India and Pakistan can do right now is let Kashmir be an independent state.

Let`s put the money we spend on defense due to the issue of Kashmir to good use, like education, and health care.

Countries with deep socio-economic problems of their own (India and Pakistan) are not fit to take on the responsibility of Kashmir.

peace

scout

i wonder who writes the brief intro of the author at the end of the article. is it chowk? or is it the author him/herself?

[...``Farzana Versey is a widely read and respected author and columnist in India...``]

what percentage of your readers are `impotent demagogues`? who made you a respected author and columnist in india? is it the persecuted minorities who are not part of the mainstream or is it the impotent demagogoues? needless to say you write in english which is still the language of the `elite` and therefore `mainstream` and by your logic `majority community`! why do they respect you?

[...``Her columns appear in publications like Times Of India, Indian Express, Mid-Day etc...``]

do the persecuted minorities run these newspapers? or is it the impotent demagogues who let you publish your widely read column so you could become particularly famous?

[...``She is particularly famous for her extremist and anti-establishment views...``]

are extremist and anti-establishment views the sole outlet to become `widely read` and `respected`? is that the objective you seek by your jounalism?

For all the debates on Talibanism, secularism, multiculturism, unification, and what not, there is one thing that I must say about the Pakistanis who contribute to this site (perhaps biased, since I am one myself; but that shouldn`t stop me from saying it):

It is very refreshing to see that Pakistanis have enough self-confidence to do so some soul-searching, and admit their faults, with respect to other nationalities are minorities. They have commented extensively on the rights of the Bangladeshis, and the fact that Pakistanis abused those rights. They are more than willing to point out the human rights violations being carried out in Pakistan. And they do not defend every action the Pakistan govt. takes in any area.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see the same from the Indian contributors. Everyone seems to be following the Indian govt. line of Kashmir. No one talks of the human rights violations in Kashmir. There seems to be a reason to justify every action committed by the Indian govt., in one way or the other. To the extent, that people have now started speaking out against human rights organizations that want to find out exactly what is going on in Kashmir. When people start opposing human rights organizations, they have perhaps surpassed even the, ``Taliban`` and have lost all respect for human life.

The one person in India who has had enough courage to tell it like it is, regarding Kashmir, in this article, is being bombarded with hate replies. Contrast this with an article written earlier as an apology to the Bangladeshis; all Pakistanis supported it, and accepted their faults, even though East Pakistan was never occupied territory.

Indians are bent upon justifying their actions in Kashmir, while at the same time not agreeing to accept any neutral monitoring bodies in Kashmir, to point out exactly what is going on. If someone is so sure they are right on an issue, then they should be more than happy to accept neutral monitoring and reporting agencies. Why is there such an insistence on not allowing anyone into Kashmir to see what is going on?

Nothing in South Asia is going to improve until the Kashmir problem gets solved; this goes for India and Pakistan. Pakistan has openly declared through its foreign office that it has no terrotorial ambitions in Kashmir. This is a major statement. It is willing to accept anything the Kashmiris decide, including joining back with India. Pakistan is offering talks on a daily basis to India, even though India is carrying out an active offensive in Siachen (a battle far more costly than Kargil). Pakistan has asked for neutral observors in Kashmir:

``Jabbar hopes India will welcome UN Observers on LoC (Updated at 1400 PST)

LONDON: Information Minister Javed Jabbar has expressed the hope that New Delhi would welcome the UN observers to monitor ``what is actually happening`` on the LoC, stressing that a neutral third party is imperative to verify as to who is doing what to whom, it was disclosed Thursday.

``I hope the Indian Prime Minister is willing to welcome the United Nations Observers in order to monitor what is actually happening on the Line of Control,`` he stated in an interview to BBC World Television on Wednesday.

Jabbar said, Pakistan has always welcomed international neutral observation because two parties are engaged in a conflict. ``You have to have a neutral third party to verify as to who is doing what to whom``. (THE NEWS)

If Indians are so sure that Paksitan is causing all the problems, then they should jump at this opportunity. If they are not interested, then India has not right to blame Pakistan for anything.

The ball is in India`s court. The end result of any Lahore resolution, or any other kind of resolution, would have had to be a decision on Kashmir. Otherwise, all these resolutions and talks are useless. So sooner or later, regardless of what process is adapted, India will have to make the ultimate decision on what it wants to do on Kashmir. If India is unwilling to make a decision, then what is the point of having any kind of a resolution, discussion, or talks.

What is India`s endgame on Kashmir, and on the current situation in South Asia? Does it plan to fight in Kashmir for the next 100 years? If yes, then why do Indians keep saying they want peace in South Asia? Peace is a give and take process. It is never one-sided. Pakistan has terrotorially delinked itself from Kashmir, and has agreed to accept any decision by the Kashmiris. Now it is time for India to do so. If India is unwilling to do so, then please do not put up a facade, and accept that Indians do not want peace.

I support autonomy for Kashmir with its defence resting with India. It seems like the author also

supports autonomy? To tell the truth, I can`t figure out the article. It is either very profound (and way over my head) or very incoherent, like a volley of gun fire.

Dear Farzana.

welcome to chowk..

hope your stay is a pleasent one.

the article was well-written though only if you would have written on ANY other topic but kasmir I sincerely believe that it would have been a much more pleasent reading..

cheers.

TAM.

Umairr #15

You made a right point. I tried to understand the locus standi of India`s refusal to allow either human rights observers within Kashmir or the UN monitoring of the LoC. IMHO, India is weak on the moral standpoint with respect to Kashmir. Now, to accept that situation AND to invite human rights observers into Kashmir will take 2 things, one is political courage and second is immense stature of the person who can stand on this principled stand. Given the coalition nature of the government and the constituents of the same, I do not see either happening.

Umairr, I have to admit that there have been Indians who have protested against the human right abuses of the Indian security forces, but overall, I do find that the Indian government line is followed rather strictly. On the other hand, I have to disagree with 2 of your statements. Your first one was with respect to the lack of territorial ambitions by Pakistan. I think there has been significant proof of the lack of viability of that statement. Secondly, when you would put yourself in India`s shoes, you would also see the instinctive adverse reactions by the Indians to talk to the man who carried out Kargil right after Lahore. The real politick behind the situation makes the Indians milk this fact to its greatest extent. Unfortunately, given the total negation of ``diplomatic and moral support business`` in the world media and opinion, I really cannot see a way out. For example, given that Indian`s general`s statement a week or so back about the 2500 militants near the LoC, Pakistan could have scored a spectacular goal by taking independent observers to the mentioned sites and showing that the Indians were just doing propaganda. I suspect the truth (much mangled) lies somewhere in the middle.

I personally did not like the article, more to do with the style than the content. The lady is mixing and matching too many things, in a much disjointed manner. The last line, ``she is particularly famous for her extremist and anti - establishment views`` does not sit well with me, but that may just be my personal distaste for sensationalism for sensationalism`s sake. The article somehow suggested to me that the author is more interested in shocking and increasing its readership / popularity than anything. Topics are started and left hanging while another topic is begun, references to unemployment are referred to as particularly unique to Kashmir etc. etc. Her ire seems to be ranging from the BJP to congress to national conference, constitution, national attitude and Hindus. Vagueness without any concrete basis or recommendations.

Ah! well!, the war rumbles on!.

cheers

bd