Why I’m proud to be a Pakistani

Hi Asim and temporal

Never interacted before but watch regularly.

I looked at your comments and went to rag. regretted it, coz it was so commercial.

I dont know why people like temporal a thinking person, go there? I was reading some of your stuff. You have possibility and potential, but I think you have not developed a style yet. But from your first attempts to now, you have come a long way. how you have changed and improved your self over the earlier articles.

rag is so commercial and has to borrow stuff from chowk! the quality is low there. NO WAY are interacts like chowk. chowk is no comparison. it is real, not a piece of recycled garbage. no matter the instant posts. at chowk there are so many interactors, all write with passion. probably nobody wants to be treated to abuse!

it is sad that people have bought in to commercial stuff so much that sooner or later they want dumber stuff. Chowk and rag is like the difference between the national geographic and readers` digest. I hope this place sticks around for a long long time and get better and better. it can frustrate me but never bore me. I am sick of mainstream garbage, and chowk gives me a sense of live people, warts and all.

these guys are genius`. I was looking at replies in the Speakers Corner. and realised what a unique outpost this is.

It is special. and it is about what people want to say. unlike other sites, where I feel that someone is hitting me with THEIR MESSAGE.

RE:Umair # 46, Nameless # 42

Umair: The two shaheeds who were awarded Nishan-e-Haider, the highest and most prestigious award of Pakistan Army in Kargil were:

1. Capt. Karnal Sher Khan Shaheed
2. Havaldar Lalak Jan Shaheed


Nameless:
For your information this Talibanised country has also awarded 2nd highest awards to the following. two Shaheeds who sacrificed their lives so that we could live our lives in freedom.

Wing Commander Mervyn L. Middlecoat Shaheed
(Sitara-e-Jurat and Sitara-e-Bisalat)
1971

Squadron Leader Peter Christy Shaheed
Sitara-e-Jurat
1971

For more information about other Shaheeds of Pak wars and how they were treated see www.pakdef.com before you post any more of your ``enlightening`` posts.

Well written article on the whole. However, the cynic in me sees a search for the one-eyeds in the kingdom of the blind. I wish more heroines and heroes to Pakistan - the non-military kind!

Re: The Chowks omnipresent Mr Temporal

Posting #40 RAG vs Chowk

Temporal,

It was good to hear from you. And yes your shikwa of my not posting here any more is valid. Though i have not abandoned the good old Chowk for good. I have gone into the soc alled ``skulking`` mode. One does not have to put pressure on ones mind to put coherent sentences together, in the so called ``skulking`` mode, and still one ends up reaping the benefits of the crem-de-la-crem of ideas being discussed.

Rag is a completely different culture from Chowk. It has its own appeal. I like the visual gratification of seeing my ideas presented within a mouse-click, as opposed to the 24 Hr morality-policing check here at RAG. This sort of thing kills the spontaneity of an interaction, and makes one reluctant to post... But then its just purely my opinion. I have posted some of your articles, namely the one about Bangladesh, and your letter to your friend over thee. It was positively moving stuff, simplistic, and did the much needed job of making the first attempts on a personal level to make amends. Unfortunately, the majority does not believe all of ``that`` really transpired. which is such a shame. I got a mixed repsonse from the Rag crowd on that too, some crying blue murder, and others merely nodding without adding much.

I am considered a Chowk-Junkie by some over there, and i feel honoured with that title. Yet these are the same people who say ``Chowk is full of self-important w-a-n-k-e-r-s``. Of course the standards are not as high as that of Chowk, and the ensuing debate is mostly ad-hominem in nature. But i was saddened to observe the same trend creeping here too.

Temporal, i like the trend you have set to be the first one to critique each new submission. I am sort of using your critique to decide whether tyhe said article is worthhile to read or not, yes i read the replies first and then the article. Call it a dark streak in my nature. Keep it up.

Have you noticed that in about 50 odd replies, you and i are the only ones who have insisted in including Mr Abdus Salam in the list of people who need to be acknolwedged as making us proud. That is a paltry 4% acceptance rate from a random sample of educated, well informed, self-important people of our country.

As a last note, Shandana you too, have that raw energy which you were associating with Mr Shiraz Take care wherever you are.

Asim

P.S If you have the contact email for Mr Sohail Rabbani, pls feel free to contact me at ahayat1@hotmail.com

Finally some breathing room for Patriots on
CHOWK. I thought that ``The Razor Blade Club``
would continue to rule here forever.
Why am I proud of my Pakistani Heritage?
Answer lies in:

Reply #: 12 Sheheryar

ENCORE!

Ras

nameless: #31: ``Has the GOP recognised the deeds of the dead in Kargil. It has not even acknowledged the dead there. They have not even accepted the bodies of the dead.``

All the deaths in Kargil were officially recognized and honored. There was a long list of medals awarded, including two Nishan-i-Haiders (the highest Pakistani military awards). All the dead were all given official buriels.

#42: ``its eagerness to accord all military honours to the bodies of the Punjabi soldiers``

The Nishan-i-Haider was given to a Pathan officer, I believe.

Could you let me know the source of your incorrect information. I would be interested in checking it out.

Also, it would be a good idea to stick to the points that this article has highlighted. Your comments, in all their grand incorrectness, belong on a separate thread.

Nice piece here. Nothing wrong in taking pride in the actions of some fine individuals. Glad that someone added the late ``Ek`` Ahmed as well as the late economist Mahbub-ul Haq.

As an Indian, let me throw up the name of a distinguished Pakistani business executive--perhaps the most powerful today--Fred Hassan of Pharmacia [the new name for the old Pharmacia, Upjohn and Searle/Monsanto].

On the flip side, waiting for our dear friend YLH to jump in with his ZABrainwash.

Cheers

RE: Nameless# 42

and your point being???

urstruly and others.

It is only a matter of time .... this article from the kashmir web pages makes intersting reading

Shades of Sameerjb here

(ref: http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/insights/insight20000206b.html)

Free Balawaristan movement gains momentum

By Sultan Shahin

Pakistan misadventure in Kargil has caused many a problem for the country. Some of the long-term consequences are only now beginning to unfold. Several politicians and social activities in the Kashmir valley are surprised to have received recently letters of greetings and calls for help from the leadership of the Balawaristan National Front (BNF) which has been spearheading a movement for independence in Gilgit and Baltistan (jointly called Balawaristan) in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Even at the Human Rights Conference in Geneva recently the BNF distributed memoranda alleging massive human rights violation of the Balawari people of Pakistan and calling for its independence.

Pakistan`s refusal to take back the dead bodies of the Kashmiris killed just a year ago in Kargil and its eagerness to accord all military honours to the bodies of the Punjabi soldiers has given a powerful fillip to the independence movement in the region. Also, the Balawaris are greatly confused by the pictures of Indian Army and BSF jawans risking their lives to bring the bodies of the Pakistani dead soldiers and giving them a proper islamic burial followed by prayers for their salvation in the hereafter. They are confused because this completely negates all the Pakistani propaganda stories they have been told about the cruelty, if not total inhumanity of the way Indian security forces conduct themselves in Kashmir. The television pictures of these burials on Indian soil of Balawari soldiers that pakistan has refused to take remained the talk of the town in Gilgit and Baltistan for days on end and appear to have destroyed the very raison d`etre of the conflict with India in their minds.

The BNF presentation at the Geneva conference makes the following telling points, among other things :

1. Mr Khan Abdul Hamid , chairman of the BNF, sought to draw the attention of the Geneva forum towards what he described as ``the fastest deteriorating human rights situation in occupied country,`` on behalf of two million people of Balawaristan. He said : ``Our great nation is reeling under the stifling control of the Armed Forces of Pakistan and its security agencies like the ISI. Our innocent people are being treated as subjugated slaves. They have been deprived of all basic humans, economic culture and political rights for the last 52 years due to the worst colonial system imposed by Pakistan in the name of religion. As a result, our simple folks are living likes animals in this civilised world even at the draw of 21st century``.

2. ``In the past 52 years a number of our countrymen have been brutally killed by Pakistan forces. But ours is the only part of the world where the highest court works on the basis of the contract and where no written petition is allowed against any human rights violations.``

3. ``Pakistan intelligence agency ISI has been forcibly sending our innocent youth across the LOC to Indian occupied Kashmir for terrorist activities. Those who refuse to work for ISI are picked up and killed. In 1999 alone Pakistani occupation forces used our innocent people as cannon fodder against India in its Kargil misadventure . More than 400 young men of our nation lost their lives , about 1,000 were wounded and approximately 40 are still missing.``

The BNF documents also provides a list of names and addresses of the ``civilians who were sent by the ISI across the LOC in 1998-99`` and another list of `` unemployed youth who were killed by ISI and Jamaat-e-Islami near the LOC when they refused to go across for the terrorist activities.``

These are serious charges and backed as they are by specific information appear to be quite credible.

Pakistan`s military rulers, too , seem to be aware of the growing disenchantment of the Balawaris. This is what explains General Pervez Musharraf granting on March 4, 2000, an additional 20 crores to the development budget of the Northern areas for the current year. But it is difficult to see this announcement making any positive impact. General Musharraf is remembered in the Northern Areas is the young Brigadier of the SSG who had been chosen by General Zia-ul-Haq in May 1998 to quell the Shia insurrection in Gilgit. Musharraf has recruited several thousands of of Sunni tribals from the Afghan borders, an area he know well as he had worked with the Mujahideen before. He had also brought truckloads of tribals from the Shilas and Khoistan. He had then let these tribals loose upon the Shias . The massacre that ensured remained unparalleled in South Asia until the recent Taliban massacre of Shia Hazaras in northern Afghanistan. The Balawaris also remember Musharraf as the man who played a key role in changing the demographic composition of the area. He brought large numbers of Sunni businessmen from Punjab and the NWFP and helped them to set up business in the Northern Areas.

Pakistan was believed to have ruthlessly suppressed the BNF as it had earlier silenced the Tanzeem-e- Millat led by Johar Ali Khan. The BNF was in dog house particularly since its leader Khan Abdul Hamid has faxed his statement to the international media from Karachi a couple of years ago, virtually demanding independence. He had said then: ``The people of Gilgit and Baltistan have been betrayed by pakistan and made slaves in their own land. We no longer have the rights that we had been under the Dogra rule which we struggled so hard against. We do not have political the political freedom people have either in Indian Kashmir or POK. So we want the fourth option, which is to liberate our people from all foreign occupation.``

Describing the plight of the Balawaris , he had said : ``We are not only deprived of fundamentals and constitutional rights but we do not have rights that animals enjoy in some countries. `` India has been made the excuse , he said , ``Of installing a rule by Pakistani military and civilian administration that has made us slaves in our own land.

Nothing much was heard of the movement since this outburst known officially as Northern Areas , the region comes in the news mainly when Shia-Sunni clashes takes place there. Balawaristan has a population of 2 million, about the same as POk that has been designated as ``Azad Kashmir``, but the people live over an area of about 28,000 square miles seven times larger than so-called Azad Kashmir. There is no local government there despite the despite solaced package deal for a kind of autonomy announced by the Pakistan government some times ago, ``in an attempt``, according to Khan Abdul Hammed, ``to hoodwink the international community.``

The suppression of human rights of the Balawaris come to international attention for the first time in 1994 when a Belgian human rights activist Ms. Claire Gale was able to visit the Northern areas along with the solaced Ad Kashmir part of the poke. ``You are the first western we met since 1947,`` She was told by several people. ``A young man told her that he was keeping his government job just by declaring that he was a member of Jamaat-e-Islami as its stand for accession of the poke to pakistan. Describing their plight to me in the Hague recently , Ms Gale who had been arrested in poke on the orders of Sandra Qayyum Khan , the then Prime Minister of ``Ad Kashmir``, recalled the overwhelming presence of the Army and other security forces in the region. ``Entire population is alienated and Pakistani authorities to keep the people divided by fueling Siha-Sunni differences. All top positions there are held by Pakistani nationals,`` She added.

It is not just visiting human rights activists and local dissidents who speaks of unspeakable atrocities on the people of Balawaristan. The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan too carried a special study of the situation in the Northern Areas (NA). It is monthly newsletter for January 1994 reported.

``The governments of Pakistan governs the NA through the Kashmir and Northern Areas Division (KANA). Authority behind KANA has remained vague. The executive head is the chief commissioner appointed by KANA and only answerable to it. The place is totally under bureaucratic rule. There is no industry in NA.

`` The Judicial Commissioner does not have wit jurisdiction and, as the people of the NA do not have any fundamental rights , the Judicial Commissioner does not have jurisdiction to enforce them.``

`` The Judicial Commissioner has no say in the appointments and the transfers of subordinate court judges , which are done by the KANA division.

``The people of the NA have no say in what laws should govern them. The KANA divisions exercises the powers of the provincial government for the NA and by notification extends laws of pakistan and such amendments as its think fits to the NA. Entrusting such such absolute legislative powers to a government functionary is not without its share of hardships.

``By a notification , order 39 of the civil procedure code was amended , taking away the powers of the civil courts to grant temporary injunctions against the government meaningless. By another notification , the Speedy Trial Courts Act , 1992, was made applicable to the NA with the amendment that in appeal from the trial court, any differences of the opinion between the two judges of the Appellate court will be settled by the chairman of the court. Such arbitrary application of laws is particularly unfair because not only do the people have no forum to protest against or amend these laws, but also because the courts have no writ jurisdiction nor the people any fundamental rights. Thus such law can not be tested for their legality and reasonableness for violation of fundamental rights.

`` The Northern Areas Council is headed by the minister of KANA and meets whenever called by the minister. The members can not convene a meeting. The orders require that a meeting of a council should be called every two and half months, but in practice the minister does not convene one for months. The Council in any case has no power. It can not form a government, can not legislate and has no say in the administration. It can not suggest development schemes. The main function of Councilors , as a cynic said, is receiving dignitaries from Pakistan.

``The police in the NA has no prosecution of crime branch nor a forensic laboratory. No newspaper is published within the NA. There are few local language weeklies and monthlies, but they are printed elsewhere.

``The Shia and Sunni communities in Gilgit had lived harmoniously for centuries. It is not easy to say when the trouble started, but it reached it climax in the killings of 1988. Some people suspected that the administration started it up after the political upheaval in Pakistan of 1970 and 1971 to take the minds of the people of political issues . It has even given rise to the occasional rumour that the Government itself pays the Ulema to start the clashes. With very low literacy , extreme poverty and no organised political activity, it is not surprising that the Ulema have acquired such a strong hold over the people. No judicial enquiry has been held into the clashes in 1992 and no compensation paid to the heirs of the person killed or for properties damaged .``

The Human Rights Commission Newsletter summed up the situation with the following points:

1. The people of NA have no say in whom governs them.

2. The democratic rights of the people have been tied to a cause.

3. A Pakistan civil servant legislate for the NA and influences all the executive and judicial acts.

4. Sometimes arbitrary laws are applied while important ones are not extended, according to the convenience.

5. The NA council, the highest elective body in the NA, has no legislative powers at all.

6. The Judicial commissioner and subordinate courts are not free.

7. The people have no fundamental rights whatsoever.

8. Executive acts, however arbitrary, can not be judicially reviewed.

9. The election commissioner is not independent and is vulnerable to pressures.

10. The administration has failed to control sectarian clashes due to mis-management and acquiescence to pressure.``

Even a facade of separate set-up available to the so-called Azad Kashmir has been denied to Balawaristan which has been incorporated into Pakistan as a centrally-administrated tribal areas like federally administered tribal Areas (FATA) near the Afghan border. Like the FATA , too, it is governed under what is called frontier Crime Regulation (FCR) framed by the British during the colonial days for dealing with they look upon as the criminal tribes of the areas bordering Afghanistan. Under these regulations, every resident has to report to the local police station once a month and all movements from one village to another village have to be reported to the police station.

The Friday Times of October 15-21, 1992 quoted Mr Mohammad Yahya Shah, chief Convener of the Hunza-Nagar Movement , a new Shia organisation , as saying: ``we were ruled by the whites during the British days, but we are now being ruled by the browns from the plains. The rapid settling-in of mostly Punjabis and Pakhtoons from outside , particularly the trading classes, has created a sense of acute insecurity among the local Shias and resulted in antagonistic perceptions between the locals and the outsiders. The genie is out of the bottle. Political reform has been abandoned in favour of extremism which the Government is abetting in order to prolong its unconstitutional militarisation. The economic and environmental plundering continues unabated . During Qasim Shah`s tenure as minister of NA , the forests were denuded rapidly. In the 1988 conflict , 400,000 acres of jungle were depleted and the wood smuggled out. Marco polo sheep, an endangered species , was hunted in the hundreds by the previous corps Commander , Lt. Gen. Ali Akbar who used helicopter gun ships for his sport,``

The same issue of the Friday Times quoted Mr Muzaffar Ali, another Shia leader and general secretary of the NA Bar Association, as saying : ``The Government is is instigating violence to suppress our genuine demands. In Pakistan , three Supreme Court Judges have to confirm a sessions Judge`s verdict. Here things happen in total negation of legal procedures as enshrined in the constitution. A single senior judge from down country confirms a verdict functioning as an autonomous Judicial Commissioner. He is at times even junior to the local Sessions judge. The State Subject rules remained enforced in Indian Kashmir after 1947 while we blundered by getting integrated, without adequate guarantees, into Pakistan for the shake of Muslim bother hood. We have ended up without a constitution, representation, even without civil or judicial rights as are available to our Pakistani brothers.`` Opposing the demands of Shias for separate Karakoram Province, a group of Sunni leaders of the POK filled a petition before the POK High Court on October 16, 1990, demanding that the NA, being Kashmiri territory, should be merge with POK. Delivering the judgment on March 8, 1993, Mr Justice Abdul Majeed Mallick, Chief Justice of the POK High Court , ruled as follows:

(a) ``The NA are and have been part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir as it existed before and on August 15, 1947.``

(b) ``The NA are the part of Azad Jammu and Kashmir and are to construed and acknowledge as such.``

(c) ``The detachment of the NA from the rest of the Azad Jammu and Kashmir is tantamount to the violation of the Resolutions of the Security Council of March 30, 1951 and January 24, 1957.``

(d) ``The state subjects residing in the NA have been deprived of the benefits of fundamental rights enshrined in the Interim Constitution during the past without lawful authority. These rights are admissible and excercisable by them.``

Refusing to accept the judgment , the Government of Pakistan said in a statement issued on March 11, 1993. ``The Azad Jammu and Kashmir Government has no jurisdiction over the NA, which are under the administrative control of Pakistan and historically had been administered by the Central Government . There is no question of passing on the administrative jurisdiction of the NA to the AJK Government.``

Balawaristan is divided into six districts called Hunza-Nagar, Gilgit, Koh-e-Ghizer, Ghanche, Diamir and Skardu, which in turn, are grouped into three agencies or divisions call Diamir with headquarters at Chilas, Gilgit with headquarters in Gilgit Town and Baltistan with headquarters in Skardu Town. Of the total population of the NA, 50 percent are Shia s. The Ismailis , the followers of the Agha Khan, and the Sunnis constitute 25 percent each. The Sunnis are in the majority in the Diamir District and in a minority in the five districts.

Before October 1994, Balawaris had no rights of adult franchise. The territory had no elected Assembly or even municipal council and no representation in Federal Assembly. Political parties were banned. In 1994, Islamabad allowed political parties of Pakistan but not of POK, to extend their activities to the region and open branches. The Pakistan People`s Party, Pakistan Muslim League, the Muttaheda Qaumi Party , an offshoot of the MQM and the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Fiqh-e-Jafria Pakistan a Shia organisation, now have branches there.

In october 1994, party based election to a 26 member council called a NA Executive of Council were held and it was announce on March 31, 1995, that its members would have the same status, emoluments and privileges as the members of the NWFP Legislative Assembly, thereby giving it a facade of a Provincial Legislative Assembly. But in reality, the Executive Council has recommendatory powers. Five of its members have been designated as the Advisers to the Federal minister for Kashmir and Northern Areas (Pakistan) Affairs, who told the national Assembly on march 26, 1996, that the Advisers would have the same status and powers as ministers of the POK Government.

Balawaristan continues to be ruled directly from Islamabad by minister of state for Kashmir and Northern Areas (Pakistan) Affairs with the help of six officers , all non-natives , deputed from outside. These officers are the Chief Executive Officer (CEO), the Commissioner, the deputy Commissioner , the Inspector General of Police (IGP), the Judicial Commissioner and the Chief Engineer public works . While the posts of the officers of the Pakistan Army, the other post are filled by officers taken on deputation from Punjab or the NWFP. There is no appeal against the judgments of the Judicial Commissioner. The Pakistan Supreme Court has no jurisdiction over him.

Like the FATA , the NA continues to be economically the most neglected area of Pakistan. In 1998-1999, the last year for which statistics are available, the total allocation for development works in NA amounted to Pakistani RS 3,09330 (US $1,500) according to then prevailing rate only for the population of two million. Whatever rural development has taken place has been due to the Agar Khan Foundation which has set up a number of projects for protected water supply, sanitation and health. The only medical centers are those of the Army for its personnel and other Government servants and of the Agar Khan Foundation for the locals.

Balawaristan has no University and no professional colleges. It has only two colleges and with no post-graduate facilities and 12 high schools. No University has been set up in the area. There are no daily newspapers and no radio or TV stations. The local people draw their subsistence from tourism. They used to join armed forces in large numbers , but after the death of Gen. Zia-Ul-Haq in a plane clash in August 17, 1988, in which a Shia member of the crew belonging to the Gilgit was suspected, the Pakistani armed forces have reduced recruitment from this area.

Government service is another means of livelihood, but the natives joining service resent being paid 25 percent less than non-natives from other provinces posted in the NA on deputation. This has been a source of great resentment leading to frequent strikes . Unlike the Mirpuris , the Balawaris have not even been able to migrate in large numbers to UK, the USA and other western countries and support their families from there, as they require an extra Visa which is rarely issued.

The first organisation to voice Balawari anger against Islamabad was the Tanzeem-e-Millat led by Johar Ali Khan that started operating in Gilgit in 1971 despite the ban on political activities. In 1974, it called for a strike that took a violent turn. The Gilgit scouts, a locally raised para-military unit with a history of over a hundred years refused to open fire on the agitators. The Prime Minister Z.A.Bhutto disbanded the unit , thus creating another permanent source of resentment among the locals. The injection of sectarian poison in the form of government supported Sunni organisations led to an anti-Shia carnage in May 198, which was followed by violent anti-Shia incidents in 1990,1992 and 1993, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people.

What appears to have given a powerful fillip to the movement now is the treatment meted out to the dead bodies of the jawans of the Northern Areas Light Infantry. While the Pakistan Army and government was prepared to compromise its position in accepting the bodies of Punjabi Soldiers, it left the Kashmiri soldiers to rot in Kargil. The respect shown to the dead bodies of these Pakistani Kashmiri soldiers by the Indian Army Jawans who went to great trouble to recover their bodies and give them proper Islamic burials has greatly impressed them, while at the same time creating deep resentment and anger against the Pakistani Army. Date: 1 June 2000

Some others who might merit mention in another list some time;

Dr.Eqbal Ahmed

Justice Cornelius

Zubeda Jalal

Dr.Hoodbhoy(as already recomended by many)

Gen.Mitha(I second temporal on this)

The Rafi Peer Theatre people.

offcourse Edhi and Dr.A.S.Salam.

Guljee.

Ansar Burnee(of burnee welfare trust).

Naheed Siddique(classical dancer).

People like Fazaldad Wahla(late) who lost lives fighting the ills of our society.

Bapsi Sidhwa(if ppl here consider her a Pakistani)

The punjabi farmers,sindhi fishermen and the pathan labourers.

The Pakistani co-founder of AST computers.

and as rafay_alam #6 mentioned;

Barkat,the pan-wallah,his brother and numerous others like them who are doing a public service beyond their wildest imaginations.

Again,these are all names that came to my mind while reading the replies to this article..

just thought of sharing them..

cheers.

SM:

Here is a missing vote of thanks and gratitude:

TO THE MOTHER

Nameless, faceless,
untamed and undaunted
mother of mothers
toiling silently
under-appreciated
and uncomplaining
being constantly criticized
for that which she did not do
as well as what she did
(raising brutes like you and me, mostly)
and tolerating bigots
(like your father and mine, mostly)
raising arms to embrace
and protect
when we’re young
pouring out soul’s anguish
to lit fire for meals
and raising legs against wishes
to accommodate frenzied incivility
there she goes
unappreciated and uncomplaining


and


with our egos, and pride
and knowledge and awareness
we go on conquering worlds
forgetting to acknowledge
the mother of all mothers
yours, and mine, mostly

* * * * * * * * * *

love,

t



PS: Asim Hayat: Agreed. The good professor should be there. (where you been? Spotted you at that rag --- why desert Chowk?)

PPS: Krashid: Agreed. The good doctor should be there.

PPS: sac or urstruly? I would also mention Gen. Mitha.

Great article Shandana!

Still, I have to agree with Urtruly post # 2. All this has a price and someone is paying that price.

As to Hunza, I think that Major Charles Brown would appreciate and thank you for your thoughts.

Ciao!

re Rafay #15:

Completely agree with you. The general was a great man indeed. They absolutely don`t make like him anymore. One of the rare armymen I feel proud to have been associated with. How about a piece on him?

About the article itself, trying to be all-inclusive as Shandhana pointed out would have been a useless exercise. Read it for her point of view which I must say is pretty refreshing.

Just to throw in my two cents how about the hari in the gulf sending the fruit of his blood and sweat back in hard currency to a country that doesn`t care and is too self-absorbed in fighting imaginary enemies?

later

-sac

P.S: RSaxena..eh..you forgot your Ritalin and Prozac again.....Maybe a little Lithium mixed with some Bidi perhaps? Cheers!!

Every one has the right to be proud for his/her own reasons¡K Edhi should have topped the list .. but then you applied your merit or simply forgot about him.. I do applaud Asmia¡¦s work but she is a very PPP inclined social worker.. social work does not sit well with politics.. but hey no one is an angle .. we are talking human here .. so she is some one to proud of . so is Imran Khan (though he is still kind of arrogant but that¡¦s a Atchison legacy.. understandable) he did what no Pakistani had did before .. the guy built the first and only cancer hospital in Pakistan entirely from his own personal effort..then there are others who have not achieved a celebrity status but they do there thing to make us proud as Pakistanis .. oops I pulled a SM here ƒº see I almost forgot Dr. Salaam ! .. well done SM!

re: Shandhana

Thank you for the nice article and a welcome change from the majority of recent ¡¥chowk stuff¡¦.

Reading your name does not tell one whether you are hindustani or pakistani and if we omit various names in your article you could easily be writing about hindsutan. And yet somebody in another conversation on the chowk told me the other day that ¡¥you¡¦ on the other side are entirely different people from ¡¥us¡¦ on this side. I wonder what he will make of this article.

``Papa corn is back, popcorn khao bade ho jao``

Papa corn says a well written article.

But I guess most of us seem to become too idealistic,

in responding to such articles.

Women, this world is not black or white, it is always in the shades of gray.

Any how, I am proud of what you are proud of.

Cooool, see ya :- )