Why I’m proud to be a Pakistani

There is a synagogue in Karachi, great, are there any temples left. The great truth posting pakistanis on the chowk never mentioned that most of the temples in pakistan were damaged in an alleged spontaneous reaction to the babri masjid incident in india.

Read this from dawn of today to understand the religious contex of minorities in pakistan. Stop this crap about pakistan as a religion tolerant country, just say it is islamic.

THE issue of separate electorate for religious minorities in Pakistan is hardly a matter about minorities. It is indeed all about mainstream politics that is firmly couched in Muslim majority. Of course, there are historical reasons for various mainstream politicians to believe that separate electorate was somehow inextricably related to the Pakistan movement and the Two-Nation Theory. For ulema, there are Islamic reasons to support separate electorate inasmuch as politics . Politics has to based on the understanding of different faiths.

Re : Concerned and cliche.

Instead of elaborating upon and explaining your point of view, why are you lamenting what has been said before. If it needs be, explain it once more, if the argument carries any weight, it shall strengthen your argument. I, personally, would like to hear what you have to say, to defend the fair election of a rabid government, on top of making blase, and rather naive statememts about ``leaving religion behind`` in India.

Its the sheer futility of ``we are better than you`` approach that irks me up. Its the ability to mask out one`s own shortcomings and concentrate solely on the opponents weaknesses, in true hypocrite fashion, which irritates me. If need be, i would go so far as to state for the record that the usual ``holier than thou`` attitude suits neither of the two countries. Why must we be constantly at each others throats to defend our countries without regard to equitability, and justice. It`s a relatively pointless discussion if need to feel superior to our adversaries was our only objective. Two mnutes of pride at winning afutile argument is not going to change the stark, dire reality for both the nations.

About treatment of human rights, and minorties, let us just say we are both at ground zero, trying to lookup. Hence the useful saying,

is hemam mein sub he nangey hain

Asim

the same cliched accusations are hurled once more at indians about bjp and rss and vajpayee. in not too distant past some indians took great pains to explain what nda is, what bjp is and what congress was. what can be done by the indian govt and what can not be done. even after all this - newcomers and oldtimers alike discard all that and once again start from scratch to trash indians about `electing a fundamentalist govt`.

the lifelong rss memeber, hindu fundamentalist vajpayee can not dare to do anything that can even vaguely be construed as `hindu oriented`. however, the all powerful, kemalist, progressive, liberal musharraf continues to buckle under fundamentalist pressures and follows that up with daily invocations on jehad. ironic?

Very well written, you truly are an optimist. Too many of us, myself included, moan and complain not about Pakistan but about 97% of the Pakistanis who make the country the way it is. It truly is a beautifull country, yet Darwin`s `survival of the fittest` theory is taken to new thresholds in this land.

He/She who wins is the corrupt one, the evil intentioned one, and the decieving one.

I admire the Pakistani women who in a land of male domination have risen to face challenges.

I admire the men, who value loyalty and personal dignity above riches. You mentioned the great sportsmen of our country-I recall one experience that is testament to your statement.

I recently had the opportunity of meeting the captain of the Stanley Cup Champions, the Dallas Stars (ice-hockey for those who are unfamiliar with the team). His name is Mike Modano. When I told him I was from Pakistan-he said that all he knew of Pakistan was that the greatest hockey player (field or ice) to ever live was from there. He said that while he was trying to hone his skills, he watched the 1994 Hockey World Cup in Australia. He said he saw a player who played with more passion then anyone he has ever seen. A player who had the enduring notion and self-belief that anything was possible (remember his mazy runs from D to D?). Modano, thought that Shahbaz was paid upto $5 million a year (seriously)-but when he found out that the amount the Pakistani players make was nothing, he said it changed his whole perspective on life. Here was someone who had nothing to gain but gave his heart, body, and soul to his country. He compared Shahbaz to men in the NHL who refuse to play for their clubs (let alone their country)unless they are offered cash sums beyond our wildest dreams. He said that he has never met Shahabaz but will always admire him ``as one of the true greats in sport.`` A compliment of the highest order to a man of the highest order, a man of class, the man they call Shahbaz Sr.

These men and women are to Pakistan what Jackie Robinson was to baseball-a gateway to change, hope, and a better future.

There should be more people like the author in this world. People who believe that Pakistan can change-but that change only can come from us. We need to get rid of the hatred, jealousy, and deceit from within us-as a people. Only then will we take steps forward.

Dear Shandana by declaring that you are a patriot and then denouncing the nuclear blast in the same 30 volume library is baleful to the ears and the eyes of the Slaves of Allah. Is it any wonder that you all the pan Islamists are attacking with epithets of ``nationalist``. To the slaves : nazis were NOT nationalists they were Christians first adolf hitler was a fervent christian and the war was waged on behalf of a fundamentalist christians against jews , the Papacy and Catholic church supported the Nazis till the end. Naturally the christians like my fellow Muslims would never admit that it was their religion (and its sense of superiority and incitement towards violance) that caused the bloodshed . They will call you an anti Pakistani if you support human rights and peace.
It is a no win situation because they want to dominate and oppress and crush everyone else. I love Pakistan more than Islam and my fellow Pakistani than my fellow Muslim. If I had to sing peans (sp?) in favor of anyone it would be in favor of those who can love. It does not matter if they are americans, indians, jews, muslims or christians. If they can love , they can make themselves comfortable on my lap anytime of the day (or night, preferably night) BUT if I have to love someone outside Pakistan (and I do) than stopping at the Islamic community (instead of the ``pakistani community``) is a poor excuse for a stop (the scenery is quite vulgar and ugly to say the least). I would rather stop at the human community - ideally I would stop at the ``the community of those who are alive`` but the beauty of it makes me cry with tears of bitter memories -- partially since I ate a steak today . . . again . . . what can I say ? flesh is a weakness even though it cost me $60 for the meal for one person not to mention the hassles with reservations and the snobbish ambiance.

veeresh #123

Great examples. But I feel like advising that ultimately deconstruction may also a type of destruction, so in my humble opinion donot fall into such a `trap` even for the sake of making a point. Its like having to prove one is a dutiful son, say, and anyone and his uncle being able to chime in and say, ``but....`` Does such a discussion make any sense, ultimately?

I think you mentioned sometime ago on chowk, getting together with a group to help protect religious institutions. It was great to hear of it. That sort of stuff will eventually speak for itself, in my opinion, without any of your livestock being misappropriated :-).

Sorry for the interjection, however, if inappropriate.
Sadhana

Veeresh,

Judging by your myriads of reponses, they have got, it seems, more than your goat. Settle down old chap.

You claim that Religion does not having anything to do with India, or more radically ``India is going to leave religion behind``. I suspect you are using filters to selectively look at India, which is for all practical purposes a prejudiced approach. The facts, however, narrate a different story altogether, specially since the period of your last elections. Let me explain.

The mere act of BJP, a rabid, right wing(foaming at the mouth) fundamentalist party`s coming to power, would indicate anything but a non-religious indoctrination of politics. Such a victory is unthinkable in US for e.g, where similar right wing fractions are always making a big hue and cry, but the populace, knows better to entrust them with running the affairs of the country. So we have to think, if religious ``Hindu`` supremacist belief was not heavily entertained in your supposedly ``secular`` country, could BJP have risen to power? Your present government sadly, does not entertain the same thoughts as you would like them to have. Enough has been said by the likes of your ``Lord`` Thackeray, and Mr Fernandez, and that veritable bastion of scholarly journalism, Arun Shori, and with great approval from the junta at large for anyone with half an analytical mind to believe otherwise.

Hope you see my point. I am addressing the issue, in light of your repetitive ``claims``; not that we dont have similar ethnic discrimination problems of our very own back in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. You know what they say about,..``People living in glass-houses... should change their clothes in darkness etc``

Reading the lists provided by enthusiasts from both sides, i have arrived at a simple conclusion. Naming of institutions, and roads in either country is not to be contrued as being commensurate to the equality or welfare of the supposed minorties whose names are represented. Its an exercise in PR, at its best.

Regards

Asim H

RE Veeresh:

``At the end of the day, please believe me, religion is no big deal here in India, except with the lunatic fringe``

Stop hiding behind the ``lunatic fringe`` argument. You have a lunatic mainstream, and some people on the fringes of your society talk about peace and tolerance.

Your prime minister is a life long member of RSS. How much more mainstream lunacy can get???

Devkant and Satybadi types:

I have my reasons why I am proud to be Pakistani although I am from Blackburn. Find out where is this B`burn. Goris like me because I date them and give them whatever they ask for. It does not cost me anything except for some kisses. I get some kisses back. My Indian friends envy me and tell me that it is against Hindu culture. I understand, afterall, so many things are against Hindus these days. But they are making tremendous progress.

Besides, I do not have to put up with questions why cows are treated holy in India and called Mamma if we can not call an oxen as Daddy. I do not like such jokes. We in Kafirabad treat everyone as equals - be it elephants, goats, rabbits or cows. I understand very well why horses are so upset in India. The answer is - ``Because cows are treated so special``

Got my goat, this one on Muslim and Hindu names in India. So here is a real one, beat that:- my childhood friend, Babar Khan, great footballer when we were young and we did many things together. comes from a staunch Muslim family. So when he left the tea gardens way back in the late `70s and started a garment export company, he named it . . . Shivam. Because his family religious head told him that it would be lucky for him, and then anctified it. Today Shivam is big. Babar Khan is big.

We go party together here in Delhi, nobody cares what his religion is. Another Muslim friend i got, smaller exporter, after failing 4-5 times he started a company and called it ``Fatalist``. Now he does well.

So what does religion have to do with it??

rooster blues #112

Either you are totally confused. Or too rich all through your life.

Ghaddafi is a lunatic. So are Arabs.

The rise of middle class in Pakistan in 1970`s is related to the hard work of poor people, who went to Arabian countries. (As is true in India). But as a Muslim you should at least have some courtesy,for them if you are Muslim.

You know Arab servants eat with their masters. Not like our countries where they are treated as garbage. If you don`t understand their culture which is mostly tribal related and not slave mentality related like ours, it is not their fault (neither ours). But loathing them for their culture only reflects your state of mind.

The plight of our economy is related to our great neighbour, who due to its hegemonist design, pressures Pakistan into spending money on defense. This you should realize.

Don`t lick the boot which hit you. Don`t bite the hand that feed you.

As far as 1974 is concerned, there was going to be a Islamic block, the vanguard of which were, Shah Faisal of Saudi Arabia, Z.A. Bhutto from Pakistan, possibly Shah of Iran, Colonel Ghaddafi of Libya and possibly Yaser Arafat, in that background that stadium was named Ghaddafi. It was effectively killed by USA. Shah Faisal was murdered, Bhutto was eliminated by a coup and Ghaffadi was forced into a retreat by highhandedness of USA.

It was desire to build an alternative economy and Capital for the benefit of Muslim countries. And to form a Muslim block.

If your eyes are unable to see and your brain is unable to grasp, it does not mean you start, propagating a thing, which is just to have a good food with a man who has every intention to stab at your back.

But I doubt that you are Pakistani.

Who knows rooster blues is an Indian and masquerading as Pakistani.

Urstruly #115

You are missing one of the prestigious institution. Dow (Sir Hughes Dow) Medical College.

Rooster Blues - here are some more famous Muslim institutions in India, post partition and nothing to do with colonial hangovers . . . WIPRO owned by Aziz Premjee, Maulana Azad Medical College, 2nd to AIIMSc in India, VGJTI in Mumbai, 2nd to IIT-Powai, Hamdard all over the place, the film industy in Mumbai & Chennai, and most of all the Indian nuclear programme.

Once again, religion got nothig to do with it here in India, OK? Come and see for yourself, when you drive from Wagah/Attari to Delhi the road is known both as Sher Shah Suri Marg as well as Guru Gobind Singh Marg. But everybody still calls it GT Road or NH-1. How about that?

Oye-veh rooster blues . . . you and your synagogue in Karachi, probably run by Baghdadi Jews . . . not that it matters, but for all of you into daler Mehndi, one of the snazziest (but now unused) buildings in Pune is the main synagogue there, more frequently used for hooting and shooting song dance sequences especially for Daler Mehndi . . .

Beat that, tiger?

We also got a multi-religion ``Bhairon Temple`` right behind the Mughal Purana Qila which has a Hindu-Muslim joint deity where the ``prasad`` (offering is booze. I swear, come to Delhi and I will take you there. Biggest free party in town, now that`s what you call religion, right?

And finally, the main ``Ram Mandir`` in South Delhi is located on Lodhi Road. While Peer Hazrat Nizamuddin Auliya Maqbara is on Mathura Road, holiest of holies.

Why don`t you understand, we are about to leave religion behind in India?

Dear Rooster Blue and other Pakis on chowk . . . somehow this one has moved into, now, naming of streets, ships and stadia, as well as universities . . . please appreciate:

a) Naming is a great game in India. Religion is only one part of it. To give an example, during the Vietnam days the West Bengal Government renamed the street on which the American Embassy was/is as ``Ho Chi Minh Sarani``. True, ask any Bengali (Hindu or Muslim) here.

b) War ships in India are named after places or things, not people. Yes, there is the INS Delhi. Now is that a Muslim name or a Hindu name? Enough Merhcant ships are named after Muslims, in fact one of the captured Pakistani Merchant ships was renamed ``Ajmer`` for a while. is that muslim or Hindu?

c) Cricket stadiums, cricketers, bookies and fixers, religion or name no bar!

d) The Prime Minister of India lives on Race Course Road, which is another good Hindu/Muslim name. Race course Road is between Akbar Road, Tughlak Road and Shah Jahan Road. Beat that?

e) At the end of the day, please believe me, religion is no big deal here in India, except with the lunatic fringe and obscurantists, of which we have the normal percentage. Our population being large, we have more than others, that is all.

f) Finally, there are some secret missile programmes I do not want to talk about, the names for which have been drawn from religious texts of all sorts. Is Zam-Zam Muslim enough?

g) Many of us here in India dislike Indian movies. That does not make us less Indian or Muslim haters considering most of the movie industry is Muslim?

h) When will you Pakistanis understand that religion is not the only thing on our minds? For decades now the Fleet Street of India has been flip-flopping between bahadur Shah Zafar Marg and Deen Dayal Upadhya Marg. However, the area is still called ``ITO`` after the Income Tax Office there.

So, finally, what religion naming is that?

cheers, i got to go pray . . .

Let me jump in with the names of some prominent Indian muslims that come to mind--

What about two presidents of India--Zakir Hussain and Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed--nominally the head of country to whom the military reported.

The former test players Salim Durrani and Syed Kirmani.

The chief minister of the state of Pondicherry [that oasis when Madras was dry in my teens] was a chappie called Farook. You had this dude A.R. Antulay in Maharashtra.

Tons of politicians both big time and ultra big time including scumbags such as syed shahabuddin, Imam Bukhari and Sikandar Bhakt.

tons of bureaucrats and IAS types such as the former foreign secretary Salman somebody [Haider?] --sorry about not recalling the name, but he was during the Gucci Raj of Rajiv.

And of course, you`ve got tons of roads, towns and buildings named after various grandees. In Madras where I`m from, I can instantly think of Habibullah Road, Wallajah road, etc.

Funny thing though is that not many people think of them as muslims as such but rather as Indians who happened to be Muslims.

It`s one thing to be inspired by great people, but often we just elevate these great people to irrelevancy. Sure we all think higly of the mother Teresas and Edhis or come who may. How many of us take this high trust and convert it into action? Including moi, not many, I`m afraid.

In the end, who you are and what you achieve and do with your life matters. Not what your fellow countrymen do or who struck big. It`s one thing if that person is a friend or relative to shine on the reflected glory, but it all amounts to a bag of beans.

Cheers