Why I’m proud to be a Pakistani
Shandana Minhas July 19, 2000
#49 Posted by Urstruly on July 21, 2000 4:15:13 am
RE:Umair # 46, Nameless # 42
Umair: The two shaheeds who were awarded Nishan-e-Haider, the highest and most prestigious award of Pakistan Army in Kargil were:
1. Capt. Karnal Sher Khan Shaheed
2. Havaldar Lalak Jan Shaheed
Nameless:
For your information this Talibanised country has also awarded 2nd highest awards to the following. two Shaheeds who sacrificed their lives so that we could live our lives in freedom.
Wing Commander Mervyn L. Middlecoat Shaheed
(Sitara-e-Jurat and Sitara-e-Bisalat)
1971
Squadron Leader Peter Christy Shaheed
Sitara-e-Jurat
1971
For more information about other Shaheeds of Pak wars and how they were treated see www.pakdef.com before you post any more of your ``enlightening`` posts.
Umair: The two shaheeds who were awarded Nishan-e-Haider, the highest and most prestigious award of Pakistan Army in Kargil were:
1. Capt. Karnal Sher Khan Shaheed
2. Havaldar Lalak Jan Shaheed
Nameless:
For your information this Talibanised country has also awarded 2nd highest awards to the following. two Shaheeds who sacrificed their lives so that we could live our lives in freedom.
Wing Commander Mervyn L. Middlecoat Shaheed
(Sitara-e-Jurat and Sitara-e-Bisalat)
1971
Squadron Leader Peter Christy Shaheed
Sitara-e-Jurat
1971
For more information about other Shaheeds of Pak wars and how they were treated see www.pakdef.com before you post any more of your ``enlightening`` posts.
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#50 Posted by Honesty on July 21, 2000 4:39:07 am
Hi Asim and temporal
Never interacted before but watch regularly.
I looked at your comments and went to rag. regretted it, coz it was so commercial.
I dont know why people like temporal a thinking person, go there? I was reading some of your stuff. You have possibility and potential, but I think you have not developed a style yet. But from your first attempts to now, you have come a long way. how you have changed and improved your self over the earlier articles.
rag is so commercial and has to borrow stuff from chowk! the quality is low there. NO WAY are interacts like chowk. chowk is no comparison. it is real, not a piece of recycled garbage. no matter the instant posts. at chowk there are so many interactors, all write with passion. probably nobody wants to be treated to abuse!
it is sad that people have bought in to commercial stuff so much that sooner or later they want dumber stuff. Chowk and rag is like the difference between the national geographic and readers` digest. I hope this place sticks around for a long long time and get better and better. it can frustrate me but never bore me. I am sick of mainstream garbage, and chowk gives me a sense of live people, warts and all.
these guys are genius`. I was looking at replies in the Speakers Corner. and realised what a unique outpost this is.
It is special. and it is about what people want to say. unlike other sites, where I feel that someone is hitting me with THEIR MESSAGE.
Never interacted before but watch regularly.
I looked at your comments and went to rag. regretted it, coz it was so commercial.
I dont know why people like temporal a thinking person, go there? I was reading some of your stuff. You have possibility and potential, but I think you have not developed a style yet. But from your first attempts to now, you have come a long way. how you have changed and improved your self over the earlier articles.
rag is so commercial and has to borrow stuff from chowk! the quality is low there. NO WAY are interacts like chowk. chowk is no comparison. it is real, not a piece of recycled garbage. no matter the instant posts. at chowk there are so many interactors, all write with passion. probably nobody wants to be treated to abuse!
it is sad that people have bought in to commercial stuff so much that sooner or later they want dumber stuff. Chowk and rag is like the difference between the national geographic and readers` digest. I hope this place sticks around for a long long time and get better and better. it can frustrate me but never bore me. I am sick of mainstream garbage, and chowk gives me a sense of live people, warts and all.
these guys are genius`. I was looking at replies in the Speakers Corner. and realised what a unique outpost this is.
It is special. and it is about what people want to say. unlike other sites, where I feel that someone is hitting me with THEIR MESSAGE.
#51 Posted by taimurmalik on July 21, 2000 11:45:45 am
Asim Hayat #48
``Have you noticed that in about 50 odd replies, you and i are the only ones who have insisted in including Mr Abdus Salam in the list of people who need to be acknolwedged as making us proud.
That is a paltry 4% acceptance rate from a random sample of educated, well informed, self-important people of our country.``
guess you don`t read the replies that carefully or you would have noticed the mention of the great Abdus Salam in my reply #41 and in some others too.anyways...it happens.
cheers.
``Have you noticed that in about 50 odd replies, you and i are the only ones who have insisted in including Mr Abdus Salam in the list of people who need to be acknolwedged as making us proud.
That is a paltry 4% acceptance rate from a random sample of educated, well informed, self-important people of our country.``
guess you don`t read the replies that carefully or you would have noticed the mention of the great Abdus Salam in my reply #41 and in some others too.anyways...it happens.
cheers.
#52 Posted by Asim on July 21, 2000 11:45:45 am
Re: Honesty and Resp #51
Rag and Chowk
Honesty wrote,..``The great thing about Chowk is that u dont have to sound a particular way to belong``
I would not quite agree. I feel i have to be ten times as cautious about my grammar, diction, punctuation or spellings over here, when i write, such that i dont get the flak from the few ``learned ones``. In my opinion, Chowk has become too commercialised, too global, too distant from what it started out as, namely a Pakistani forum, for discussions relevant to Pakistan, and us Pakistanis. Then it started carrying the flag of South Asia. Why? its not as if there was a dearth of indian discussion or propaganda sites. On top of it, it started becoming more and more laxed on details, became almost psycophantic in its outlook to accomodating insolent, uneducated, and often very rabid indians, resulting in an equally rabid form of Pakistani writing there. These days it is considered fashionable to write there. You can call it a myopic view, but i feel that ``personalness`` was gone as the chowk became bigger and supposedly better. Nowadays, The standards have plummeted quite abit, such that it looks like it is desperate to let any garbage pass through, just to get some readership. Why such desperation,is beyond me. Looks like they have opened the floodgates on all the budding, aspiring writers, thereby making it a launch pad for their debacles. That is not to say that some good ones still dont get squeezed through.For they do.I have great respect for a few regular contributors, from whok i have learnt a lot.
However, on RAg, there are real people TOO, full of life, energy, vibrant with ideas, humour, wit, sensitivity too. I am afriad you did not spent enough time there to get to feel comfortable with the place. And came away with a distorted view of the place. Thye too are nice people, educated. Like i said they tend to view life throusgh slightly rose-tinted glasses as opposed to all death, gloom, and tragedy which has come to be the hallmark of Chowk_(IMHO)
Regarding your accusation of using Chowk articles for RAG to thrive,.. nothing could be farther from the truth. The chowk articles were my doing. I wanted to see the result of cross-pollination of ideas, between chowkwallahs ,and Rag-wallahs. Purely Curiosity driven.
You have got to understand that well, RAG and Chowk have two different environments, and cultures. Both provide a useful venue for exchange of ideas.Therefore, they are complimentary to each other, in terms of that esoteric pakistani entity ``choice`` and not mutually exclusive.
I am telling you as it is, for i too used to write on Chowk believing that ``i was a reader, writer, and a thinker``. I was wrong on one count!
So give RAG a seconmd chance, you might like it. Dont knock it till you try it.
Regards
Asim
Rag and Chowk
Honesty wrote,..``The great thing about Chowk is that u dont have to sound a particular way to belong``
I would not quite agree. I feel i have to be ten times as cautious about my grammar, diction, punctuation or spellings over here, when i write, such that i dont get the flak from the few ``learned ones``. In my opinion, Chowk has become too commercialised, too global, too distant from what it started out as, namely a Pakistani forum, for discussions relevant to Pakistan, and us Pakistanis. Then it started carrying the flag of South Asia. Why? its not as if there was a dearth of indian discussion or propaganda sites. On top of it, it started becoming more and more laxed on details, became almost psycophantic in its outlook to accomodating insolent, uneducated, and often very rabid indians, resulting in an equally rabid form of Pakistani writing there. These days it is considered fashionable to write there. You can call it a myopic view, but i feel that ``personalness`` was gone as the chowk became bigger and supposedly better. Nowadays, The standards have plummeted quite abit, such that it looks like it is desperate to let any garbage pass through, just to get some readership. Why such desperation,is beyond me. Looks like they have opened the floodgates on all the budding, aspiring writers, thereby making it a launch pad for their debacles. That is not to say that some good ones still dont get squeezed through.For they do.I have great respect for a few regular contributors, from whok i have learnt a lot.
However, on RAg, there are real people TOO, full of life, energy, vibrant with ideas, humour, wit, sensitivity too. I am afriad you did not spent enough time there to get to feel comfortable with the place. And came away with a distorted view of the place. Thye too are nice people, educated. Like i said they tend to view life throusgh slightly rose-tinted glasses as opposed to all death, gloom, and tragedy which has come to be the hallmark of Chowk_(IMHO)
Regarding your accusation of using Chowk articles for RAG to thrive,.. nothing could be farther from the truth. The chowk articles were my doing. I wanted to see the result of cross-pollination of ideas, between chowkwallahs ,and Rag-wallahs. Purely Curiosity driven.
You have got to understand that well, RAG and Chowk have two different environments, and cultures. Both provide a useful venue for exchange of ideas.Therefore, they are complimentary to each other, in terms of that esoteric pakistani entity ``choice`` and not mutually exclusive.
I am telling you as it is, for i too used to write on Chowk believing that ``i was a reader, writer, and a thinker``. I was wrong on one count!
So give RAG a seconmd chance, you might like it. Dont knock it till you try it.
Regards
Asim
#53 Posted by veeresh on July 21, 2000 11:45:45 am
Dear Shandana . . . to be proud of one`s own country, excellent. Turbans off to you from India. Just one thing, you may have forgotten one more famous Pakistani, you know, I read a book, this must have been in Ayub Khan`s or Yayha Khan`s time, the guy from Pak Air Force who reached the moon just after Neil Armstrong and Appollo-XI?
Just kidding . . . I`m really glad that an article like this was put up. Now, for the Indians here who don`t know, could you sort of put up brief biographies on people like Samia Sarwar (why was she killed?) and what is Mirpukhas?
I would ask my Baluchi Dad but he is in hospital and it suddenly struck me, hey, who will my children ask?
chowk, I guess?
Just kidding . . . I`m really glad that an article like this was put up. Now, for the Indians here who don`t know, could you sort of put up brief biographies on people like Samia Sarwar (why was she killed?) and what is Mirpukhas?
I would ask my Baluchi Dad but he is in hospital and it suddenly struck me, hey, who will my children ask?
chowk, I guess?
#54 Posted by mohajir on July 21, 2000 11:45:45 am
Ten thousand Pakistani Muslims ready for holy war against India.
KARACHI, July 21 (AFP) -
Thousands of Pakistanis called for holy war against India here Friday as extremist leader Maulana Masood Azhar dramatically ended months of silence after his release from an Indian jail.
``Ten thousand have joined us and are ready to give their lives in the name of Islam,`` said Azhar in a speech at a mosque in this southern port city.
Police were deployed around the mosque as Azhar whipped thousands of people attending Friday prayers into a fury against India, blamed here for gross human rights abuses against Muslims in its zone of Kashmir.
``India is killing thousands of innocent Mulsims in Kashmir but they cannot stop the jihad (holy war). Tomorrow I may be killed but the struggle will continue,`` said Azhar, who was released from an Indian jail late last year as part of a deal with hijackers of an Indian Airlines plane.
Pakistani authorities, wary of the country`s growing reputation as a haven for Islamic extremists, have tried to muzzle the fiery orator since his release in late December after almost six years in Indian prisons.
Mosque administrators said police had tried to prevent his speech Friday but were flatly told that ``Muslim leaders cannot be stopped in an Islamic country.``
Azhar is the leader of the militant fundamentalist group Jaish-e-Mohammad, which he created in April after quitting the Harkatul Mujahadeen, an organisation blamed for several terrorist attacks and kidnappings.
His brother was allegedly one of five armed Muslim hijackers who seized the Indian Airlines plane on Christmas Eve last year and forced it on a terrifying journey across South Asia and the Gulf to Afghanistan.
One of the hostages was killed but another 160 were freed after almost a week at an Afghan airport, when India agreed to release Azhar and two other Muslim militants.
The five hijackers were allowed to escape and are widely believed to be in Pakistan.
A Muslim insurgency in India-controlled Kashmir has claimed some 25,000 lives since 1989.
KARACHI, July 21 (AFP) -
Thousands of Pakistanis called for holy war against India here Friday as extremist leader Maulana Masood Azhar dramatically ended months of silence after his release from an Indian jail.
``Ten thousand have joined us and are ready to give their lives in the name of Islam,`` said Azhar in a speech at a mosque in this southern port city.
Police were deployed around the mosque as Azhar whipped thousands of people attending Friday prayers into a fury against India, blamed here for gross human rights abuses against Muslims in its zone of Kashmir.
``India is killing thousands of innocent Mulsims in Kashmir but they cannot stop the jihad (holy war). Tomorrow I may be killed but the struggle will continue,`` said Azhar, who was released from an Indian jail late last year as part of a deal with hijackers of an Indian Airlines plane.
Pakistani authorities, wary of the country`s growing reputation as a haven for Islamic extremists, have tried to muzzle the fiery orator since his release in late December after almost six years in Indian prisons.
Mosque administrators said police had tried to prevent his speech Friday but were flatly told that ``Muslim leaders cannot be stopped in an Islamic country.``
Azhar is the leader of the militant fundamentalist group Jaish-e-Mohammad, which he created in April after quitting the Harkatul Mujahadeen, an organisation blamed for several terrorist attacks and kidnappings.
His brother was allegedly one of five armed Muslim hijackers who seized the Indian Airlines plane on Christmas Eve last year and forced it on a terrifying journey across South Asia and the Gulf to Afghanistan.
One of the hostages was killed but another 160 were freed after almost a week at an Afghan airport, when India agreed to release Azhar and two other Muslim militants.
The five hijackers were allowed to escape and are widely believed to be in Pakistan.
A Muslim insurgency in India-controlled Kashmir has claimed some 25,000 lives since 1989.
#55 Posted by ferozk on July 21, 2000 12:27:12 pm
A Correction!
I am sorry, but the name was Major Willie Brown. Sorry for the mistake!
Ciao!
I am sorry, but the name was Major Willie Brown. Sorry for the mistake!
Ciao!
#56 Posted by anamika on July 21, 2000 1:25:07 pm
#53 Asim H.
``Second``, you must mean, not ``seconmd``.
Hope this helps.
Another insolent(?), idiotic, raid Indian.
``Second``, you must mean, not ``seconmd``.
Hope this helps.
Another insolent(?), idiotic, raid Indian.
#57 Posted by temporal on July 21, 2000 2:05:01 pm
Asim Hayat #48 & #53
Interesting and valid reflections re: what is happening here at the Chowk and over there.
It is not as much a question of scratching the mind to come up with phrases that would appear to be pleasant when you really want to say go forth and produce.
Chowk is within my comfort zone. Rag is not.
Rag is raw, unfocussed, brimming with enthusiasm, zany, irreverent and iconoclastic and has one or two good regular contributors.
In degrees I can tolerate or develop a shield, but for the life of me I cannot tolerate uncouth, base and vulgar expression when they substitute and masquerade thinking or writing. (At this moment a story is literally writing itself out on my PC -- the profanity, the vulgarity and the language of the character is astonishing me -- and I feel like a willing fool or a tool more likely -- the way it is shaping up I don’t think Chowk will accept it for publication but I am continuing almost against my wishes as it were to write it)
It may be age ( I am several centuries old), inclination, the company I keep (sorry if this sounds elitist -- not meant to be) or taste. Now, I will readily admit this taste or any taste can be acquired.
Wish I had known that Sadia letter was being reproduced there. Would have followed the comments.
You say, “Temporal, i like the trend you have set to be the first one to critique each new submission. I am sort of using your critique to decide whether tyhe said article is worthhile to read or not, yes i read the replies first and then the article. Call it a dark streak in my nature. Keep it up.”
No this is dangerous. My input is just my input. If it makes you read or skip an article or poem altogether is not right. Please re-think.
(Sohail’s email address is on its way separately)
#53
You say, “I would not quite agree. I feel i have to be ten times as cautious about my grammar, diction, punctuation or spellings over here, when i write, such that i dont get the flak from the few ``learned ones``. In my opinion, Chowk has become too commercialised, too global, too distant from what it started out as, namely a Pakistani forum, for discussions relevant to Pakistan, and us Pakistanis.”
Your caution is misplaced. I may come off as a prude, sometimes, okay most of the times, but there are occasions when I sprinkle my conversation with ‘expletive-deleted’ from the common everyday type to the rare seldom heard kind. But this is no forum for their exposure. Therefore I do not use them here. Likewise, I come hear with a certain sense of awe and respect, not knowing what words of wisdom I might find here. A display of baseness and vulgarity is not what I hope to run into here. And when it does happen infrequently I move onto the next post.
I agree with your view on the floodgates. Others have expressed similar views. I am sure Chowk staff is getting feed back from all quarters before making decisions that will affect the overall image of Chowk.
Honesty #51
You wrote, “ I was reading some of your stuff. You have possibility and potential, but I think you have not developed a style yet. But from your first attempts to now, you have come a long way.”
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I will try harder now.
I have indicated my thoughts on Chowk vs. rag in my reply to Asim
regards,
temporal
Interesting and valid reflections re: what is happening here at the Chowk and over there.
It is not as much a question of scratching the mind to come up with phrases that would appear to be pleasant when you really want to say go forth and produce.
Chowk is within my comfort zone. Rag is not.
Rag is raw, unfocussed, brimming with enthusiasm, zany, irreverent and iconoclastic and has one or two good regular contributors.
In degrees I can tolerate or develop a shield, but for the life of me I cannot tolerate uncouth, base and vulgar expression when they substitute and masquerade thinking or writing. (At this moment a story is literally writing itself out on my PC -- the profanity, the vulgarity and the language of the character is astonishing me -- and I feel like a willing fool or a tool more likely -- the way it is shaping up I don’t think Chowk will accept it for publication but I am continuing almost against my wishes as it were to write it)
It may be age ( I am several centuries old), inclination, the company I keep (sorry if this sounds elitist -- not meant to be) or taste. Now, I will readily admit this taste or any taste can be acquired.
Wish I had known that Sadia letter was being reproduced there. Would have followed the comments.
You say, “Temporal, i like the trend you have set to be the first one to critique each new submission. I am sort of using your critique to decide whether tyhe said article is worthhile to read or not, yes i read the replies first and then the article. Call it a dark streak in my nature. Keep it up.”
No this is dangerous. My input is just my input. If it makes you read or skip an article or poem altogether is not right. Please re-think.
(Sohail’s email address is on its way separately)
#53
You say, “I would not quite agree. I feel i have to be ten times as cautious about my grammar, diction, punctuation or spellings over here, when i write, such that i dont get the flak from the few ``learned ones``. In my opinion, Chowk has become too commercialised, too global, too distant from what it started out as, namely a Pakistani forum, for discussions relevant to Pakistan, and us Pakistanis.”
Your caution is misplaced. I may come off as a prude, sometimes, okay most of the times, but there are occasions when I sprinkle my conversation with ‘expletive-deleted’ from the common everyday type to the rare seldom heard kind. But this is no forum for their exposure. Therefore I do not use them here. Likewise, I come hear with a certain sense of awe and respect, not knowing what words of wisdom I might find here. A display of baseness and vulgarity is not what I hope to run into here. And when it does happen infrequently I move onto the next post.
I agree with your view on the floodgates. Others have expressed similar views. I am sure Chowk staff is getting feed back from all quarters before making decisions that will affect the overall image of Chowk.
Honesty #51
You wrote, “ I was reading some of your stuff. You have possibility and potential, but I think you have not developed a style yet. But from your first attempts to now, you have come a long way.”
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I will try harder now.
I have indicated my thoughts on Chowk vs. rag in my reply to Asim
regards,
temporal
#58 Posted by Brat on July 21, 2000 2:34:37 pm
Forgive me for being another one of those psuedo-learned ones. And others please pardon the long reply, and also if you think it`s out of context.
Asim and others who`ve voiced similar sentiments regardless of which side of Border they were on:
Aren`t you saying in your reply that YOUR garbage should pass through right away...instantly too damn it, but if some aspiring writer (God forbid if it is an aspiring Indian writer: being the worst thing on Earth) wants to state something in their own words, (maybe it`s not Pulitzer prize stuff, but it`s still a voice) it`s considered a waste of your time??
WHY the fixation on India-Pakistan? No wonder people like you do well on sites which loudly do propaganda for only one side. When you go to an `Indian` site you know what to expect -- Indians. And you know what being Indian means right? And if you go to a Pakistani site, you know that you expect Pakistani behaviour. It is at sites like this where you don`t know who`s who that it starts to get bothersome.
It is posts such as this, and articles such as India Pakistan and spirit of Chowk which lead us to further divisions. It is people with closed minds who want us to stay there and hate each other for being `labelled` certain things. What is a label(brand-name) To you? Is it ``all`` that you are?
Take any Pakistani, Muslim, (Add your age here), (Add the fancy degree from the fancy colleges you went to), Male and that would be you right? You were made from that cut-out. Is this a wholesale Wal-Mart scheme that I am unaware of? did some giant corporation go to India and Pakistan and make a few cutouts and mass production happened?
Well, I guess in this day and age, storks don`t bring babies..you tell your kids I was manufactured at this great plant...and these are my labels, and I`ve worked hard all my life to get you this other label too...!!! YAY for humanity.
Chowk to me, is an institution. We all learn here, something or the other...or we teach, or we sit around being amused at how the world works!!! There are people who know a lot, there are people who are just testing their wings, there are also people who just repeat what was told to them. And there are those who sit dejected in a corner and predict gloom and doom!!! But regardless of differences in our age, educational background, worldly wisdom, ethnicity, shape of the nose etc....we come together to have a few heated discussions, a few laughs...a few tears. This is more special than any other social interaction i`ve had the chance of encountering.
In cyber-space, in spite of my age I can argue with people. My thoughts are put forward first. My labels do affect what I think, but that`s exactly why I`m here...I don`t want just a bigger better label or a bigger better car, bigger better house...I WANT MORE - to be rid of these labels. I am NOT a product.
Another thing that amazes me...to see the work of political agenda-drivers. The people who start the riots, the people who cause blood-shed, the people who keep us away from peace. In real life you get so blinded by the similarities between their labels and yours that you start believing what they preach. NOT so in cyberlife.
What is the exact figure? That if the US military budget was cut, the money could feed all the people of the world? People, even in your own beloved country and mine, don`t have FOOD. They die of draught, floods, riots? And we sit here and contemplate why all Pakistanis behave a certain way, and why Indians smell. Can`t take a peek at reality huh? Then DARE to be a dreamer.
Chowk, is like a living/drawing room (depending on which part of Earth you live on labels change! Thank God that it`s not all standardized yet!). In this drawing room, people come, have coffee/tea at their own expense, be their own hosts, but provide us with lots of good stories, anecdotes, political views -- as honestly as they allow their thoughts to exist. WOW. Can you imagine doing that elsewhere? What kind of conversations do people have in the privacy of their own homes? The same people they`ve met many times, talk about the same things they`ve always talked about...with some added Masala.
The circle of your acquaintances got bigger, there was more room in this drawing room for other people, other opinions...for people to fail, for people to make assertions that get blown to bits (as I`m happily doing to you). And this is not as comforting as sitting somewhere and repeating the same stuff over and over again.
And BTW what does Chowk censor ? May I know? I think that there has to be a common language to communicate, and if it`s a polite one..what`s the harm?
OK, I should apologise yet again for getting carried away into such a long post. I moved away from home when I was 18, and before that at parties at home, I used to be always hanging around listening to older people talk -- about Politics, about institutions...whatever. And when I moved away to this isolated environment I missed that. Familiar people talking about stuff, so I can learn. I`ve started writing here too now, testing my own ideas. I don`t use the fanciest words, but this place let`s me talk...and that`s important to me.
Noise, generated for the sole purpose of irritating and causing conflicts irritates me. If people want to get into mudslinging matches they can get to the chats/forums and let it out...as some people did here at Chowk. They have nothing of value to contribute so the only way they communicate is by making these noises.
I guess they have their rights too!
``Don`t knock it[rag] till your try it.``
YEAH. Knock it after I`ve tried and tested it, and only if it changes without asking me first...that`s what you do right?
Capitalism...power to the consumers..give them what they want Chowk Editors...otherwise you wouldn`t be making those multi-million dollars that you make right now!!! Give them a Pakistani Chowk. Where no Indian is allowed without a Visa, and even if allowed, they have to report every day to a CHOWKIDAR. And make an Indian Chowk too....with similar rules if desired.
Or maybe make an Indian Bashing unit, Pakistan Bashing unit. Muslim Bashing done here for 2 cents only. Hindu Bashing for free today...ALSO win a T-SHIRT if you participate equally in all our forums! Win $100 for most effective and hurtful accusation.
And the people who win in this contests can then be nominated to run our countries, and we`ll continue our trends happily ever after....
dreaming...
Brat
Asim and others who`ve voiced similar sentiments regardless of which side of Border they were on:
Aren`t you saying in your reply that YOUR garbage should pass through right away...instantly too damn it, but if some aspiring writer (God forbid if it is an aspiring Indian writer: being the worst thing on Earth) wants to state something in their own words, (maybe it`s not Pulitzer prize stuff, but it`s still a voice) it`s considered a waste of your time??
WHY the fixation on India-Pakistan? No wonder people like you do well on sites which loudly do propaganda for only one side. When you go to an `Indian` site you know what to expect -- Indians. And you know what being Indian means right? And if you go to a Pakistani site, you know that you expect Pakistani behaviour. It is at sites like this where you don`t know who`s who that it starts to get bothersome.
It is posts such as this, and articles such as India Pakistan and spirit of Chowk which lead us to further divisions. It is people with closed minds who want us to stay there and hate each other for being `labelled` certain things. What is a label(brand-name) To you? Is it ``all`` that you are?
Take any Pakistani, Muslim, (Add your age here), (Add the fancy degree from the fancy colleges you went to), Male and that would be you right? You were made from that cut-out. Is this a wholesale Wal-Mart scheme that I am unaware of? did some giant corporation go to India and Pakistan and make a few cutouts and mass production happened?
Well, I guess in this day and age, storks don`t bring babies..you tell your kids I was manufactured at this great plant...and these are my labels, and I`ve worked hard all my life to get you this other label too...!!! YAY for humanity.
Chowk to me, is an institution. We all learn here, something or the other...or we teach, or we sit around being amused at how the world works!!! There are people who know a lot, there are people who are just testing their wings, there are also people who just repeat what was told to them. And there are those who sit dejected in a corner and predict gloom and doom!!! But regardless of differences in our age, educational background, worldly wisdom, ethnicity, shape of the nose etc....we come together to have a few heated discussions, a few laughs...a few tears. This is more special than any other social interaction i`ve had the chance of encountering.
In cyber-space, in spite of my age I can argue with people. My thoughts are put forward first. My labels do affect what I think, but that`s exactly why I`m here...I don`t want just a bigger better label or a bigger better car, bigger better house...I WANT MORE - to be rid of these labels. I am NOT a product.
Another thing that amazes me...to see the work of political agenda-drivers. The people who start the riots, the people who cause blood-shed, the people who keep us away from peace. In real life you get so blinded by the similarities between their labels and yours that you start believing what they preach. NOT so in cyberlife.
What is the exact figure? That if the US military budget was cut, the money could feed all the people of the world? People, even in your own beloved country and mine, don`t have FOOD. They die of draught, floods, riots? And we sit here and contemplate why all Pakistanis behave a certain way, and why Indians smell. Can`t take a peek at reality huh? Then DARE to be a dreamer.
Chowk, is like a living/drawing room (depending on which part of Earth you live on labels change! Thank God that it`s not all standardized yet!). In this drawing room, people come, have coffee/tea at their own expense, be their own hosts, but provide us with lots of good stories, anecdotes, political views -- as honestly as they allow their thoughts to exist. WOW. Can you imagine doing that elsewhere? What kind of conversations do people have in the privacy of their own homes? The same people they`ve met many times, talk about the same things they`ve always talked about...with some added Masala.
The circle of your acquaintances got bigger, there was more room in this drawing room for other people, other opinions...for people to fail, for people to make assertions that get blown to bits (as I`m happily doing to you). And this is not as comforting as sitting somewhere and repeating the same stuff over and over again.
And BTW what does Chowk censor ? May I know? I think that there has to be a common language to communicate, and if it`s a polite one..what`s the harm?
OK, I should apologise yet again for getting carried away into such a long post. I moved away from home when I was 18, and before that at parties at home, I used to be always hanging around listening to older people talk -- about Politics, about institutions...whatever. And when I moved away to this isolated environment I missed that. Familiar people talking about stuff, so I can learn. I`ve started writing here too now, testing my own ideas. I don`t use the fanciest words, but this place let`s me talk...and that`s important to me.
Noise, generated for the sole purpose of irritating and causing conflicts irritates me. If people want to get into mudslinging matches they can get to the chats/forums and let it out...as some people did here at Chowk. They have nothing of value to contribute so the only way they communicate is by making these noises.
I guess they have their rights too!
``Don`t knock it[rag] till your try it.``
YEAH. Knock it after I`ve tried and tested it, and only if it changes without asking me first...that`s what you do right?
Capitalism...power to the consumers..give them what they want Chowk Editors...otherwise you wouldn`t be making those multi-million dollars that you make right now!!! Give them a Pakistani Chowk. Where no Indian is allowed without a Visa, and even if allowed, they have to report every day to a CHOWKIDAR. And make an Indian Chowk too....with similar rules if desired.
Or maybe make an Indian Bashing unit, Pakistan Bashing unit. Muslim Bashing done here for 2 cents only. Hindu Bashing for free today...ALSO win a T-SHIRT if you participate equally in all our forums! Win $100 for most effective and hurtful accusation.
And the people who win in this contests can then be nominated to run our countries, and we`ll continue our trends happily ever after....
dreaming...
Brat
#59 Posted by Brat on July 21, 2000 2:34:37 pm
Forgive me for being another one of those psuedo-learned ones. And others please pardon the long reply, and also if you think it`s out of context.
Asim and others who`ve voiced similar sentiments regardless of which side of Border they were on:
Aren`t you saying in your reply that YOUR garbage should pass through right away...instantly too damn it, but if some aspiring writer (God forbid if it is an aspiring Indian writer: being the worst thing on Earth) wants to state something in their own words, (maybe it`s not Pulitzer prize stuff, but it`s still a voice) it`s considered a waste of your time??
WHY the fixation on India-Pakistan? No wonder people like you do well on sites which loudly do propaganda for only one side. When you go to an `Indian` site you know what to expect -- Indians. And you know what being Indian means right? And if you go to a Pakistani site, you know that you expect Pakistani behaviour. It is at sites like this where you don`t know who`s who that it starts to get bothersome.
It is posts such as this, and articles such as India Pakistan and spirit of Chowk which lead us to further divisions. It is people with closed minds who want us to stay there and hate each other for being `labelled` certain things. What is a label(brand-name) To you? Is it ``all`` that you are?
Take any Pakistani, Muslim, (Add your age here), (Add the fancy degree from the fancy colleges you went to), Male and that would be you right? You were made from that cut-out. Is this a wholesale Wal-Mart scheme that I am unaware of? did some giant corporation go to India and Pakistan and make a few cutouts and mass production happened?
Well, I guess in this day and age, storks don`t bring babies..you tell your kids I was manufactured at this great plant...and these are my labels, and I`ve worked hard all my life to get you this other label too...!!! YAY for humanity.
Chowk to me, is an institution. We all learn here, something or the other...or we teach, or we sit around being amused at how the world works!!! There are people who know a lot, there are people who are just testing their wings, there are also people who just repeat what was told to them. And there are those who sit dejected in a corner and predict gloom and doom!!! But regardless of differences in our age, educational background, worldly wisdom, ethnicity, shape of the nose etc....we come together to have a few heated discussions, a few laughs...a few tears. This is more special than any other social interaction i`ve had the chance of encountering.
In cyber-space, in spite of my age I can argue with people. My thoughts are put forward first. My labels do affect what I think, but that`s exactly why I`m here...I don`t want just a bigger better label or a bigger better car, bigger better house...I WANT MORE - to be rid of these labels. I am NOT a product.
Another thing that amazes me...to see the work of political agenda-drivers. The people who start the riots, the people who cause blood-shed, the people who keep us away from peace. In real life you get so blinded by the similarities between their labels and yours that you start believing what they preach. NOT so in cyberlife.
What is the exact figure? That if the US military budget was cut, the money could feed all the people of the world? People, even in your own beloved country and mine, don`t have FOOD. They die of draught, floods, riots? And we sit here and contemplate why all Pakistanis behave a certain way, and why Indians smell. Can`t take a peek at reality huh? Then DARE to be a dreamer.
Chowk, is like a living/drawing room (depending on which part of Earth you live on labels change! Thank God that it`s not all standardized yet!). In this drawing room, people come, have coffee/tea at their own expense, be their own hosts, but provide us with lots of good stories, anecdotes, political views -- as honestly as they allow their thoughts to exist. WOW. Can you imagine doing that elsewhere? What kind of conversations do people have in the privacy of their own homes? The same people they`ve met many times, talk about the same things they`ve always talked about...with some added Masala.
The circle of your acquaintances got bigger, there was more room in this drawing room for other people, other opinions...for people to fail, for people to make assertions that get blown to bits (as I`m happily doing to you). And this is not as comforting as sitting somewhere and repeating the same stuff over and over again.
And BTW what does Chowk censor ? May I know? I think that there has to be a common language to communicate, and if it`s a polite one..what`s the harm?
OK, I should apologise yet again for getting carried away into such a long post. I moved away from home when I was 18, and before that at parties at home, I used to be always hanging around listening to older people talk -- about Politics, about institutions...whatever. And when I moved away to this isolated environment I missed that. Familiar people talking about stuff, so I can learn. I`ve started writing here too now, testing my own ideas. I don`t use the fanciest words, but this place let`s me talk...and that`s important to me.
Noise, generated for the sole purpose of irritating and causing conflicts irritates me. If people want to get into mudslinging matches they can get to the chats/forums and let it out...as some people did here at Chowk. They have nothing of value to contribute so the only way they communicate is by making these noises.
I guess they have their rights too!
``Don`t knock it[rag] till your try it.``
YEAH. Knock it after I`ve tried and tested it, and only if it changes without asking me first...that`s what you do right?
Capitalism...power to the consumers..give them what they want Chowk Editors...otherwise you wouldn`t be making those multi-million dollars that you make right now!!! Give them a Pakistani Chowk. Where no Indian is allowed without a Visa, and even if allowed, they have to report every day to a CHOWKIDAR. And make an Indian Chowk too....with similar rules if desired.
Or maybe make an Indian Bashing unit, Pakistan Bashing unit. Muslim Bashing done here for 2 cents only. Hindu Bashing for free today...ALSO win a T-SHIRT if you participate equally in all our forums! Win $100 for most effective and hurtful accusation.
And the people who win in this contests can then be nominated to run our countries, and we`ll continue our trends happily ever after....
dreaming...
Brat
Asim and others who`ve voiced similar sentiments regardless of which side of Border they were on:
Aren`t you saying in your reply that YOUR garbage should pass through right away...instantly too damn it, but if some aspiring writer (God forbid if it is an aspiring Indian writer: being the worst thing on Earth) wants to state something in their own words, (maybe it`s not Pulitzer prize stuff, but it`s still a voice) it`s considered a waste of your time??
WHY the fixation on India-Pakistan? No wonder people like you do well on sites which loudly do propaganda for only one side. When you go to an `Indian` site you know what to expect -- Indians. And you know what being Indian means right? And if you go to a Pakistani site, you know that you expect Pakistani behaviour. It is at sites like this where you don`t know who`s who that it starts to get bothersome.
It is posts such as this, and articles such as India Pakistan and spirit of Chowk which lead us to further divisions. It is people with closed minds who want us to stay there and hate each other for being `labelled` certain things. What is a label(brand-name) To you? Is it ``all`` that you are?
Take any Pakistani, Muslim, (Add your age here), (Add the fancy degree from the fancy colleges you went to), Male and that would be you right? You were made from that cut-out. Is this a wholesale Wal-Mart scheme that I am unaware of? did some giant corporation go to India and Pakistan and make a few cutouts and mass production happened?
Well, I guess in this day and age, storks don`t bring babies..you tell your kids I was manufactured at this great plant...and these are my labels, and I`ve worked hard all my life to get you this other label too...!!! YAY for humanity.
Chowk to me, is an institution. We all learn here, something or the other...or we teach, or we sit around being amused at how the world works!!! There are people who know a lot, there are people who are just testing their wings, there are also people who just repeat what was told to them. And there are those who sit dejected in a corner and predict gloom and doom!!! But regardless of differences in our age, educational background, worldly wisdom, ethnicity, shape of the nose etc....we come together to have a few heated discussions, a few laughs...a few tears. This is more special than any other social interaction i`ve had the chance of encountering.
In cyber-space, in spite of my age I can argue with people. My thoughts are put forward first. My labels do affect what I think, but that`s exactly why I`m here...I don`t want just a bigger better label or a bigger better car, bigger better house...I WANT MORE - to be rid of these labels. I am NOT a product.
Another thing that amazes me...to see the work of political agenda-drivers. The people who start the riots, the people who cause blood-shed, the people who keep us away from peace. In real life you get so blinded by the similarities between their labels and yours that you start believing what they preach. NOT so in cyberlife.
What is the exact figure? That if the US military budget was cut, the money could feed all the people of the world? People, even in your own beloved country and mine, don`t have FOOD. They die of draught, floods, riots? And we sit here and contemplate why all Pakistanis behave a certain way, and why Indians smell. Can`t take a peek at reality huh? Then DARE to be a dreamer.
Chowk, is like a living/drawing room (depending on which part of Earth you live on labels change! Thank God that it`s not all standardized yet!). In this drawing room, people come, have coffee/tea at their own expense, be their own hosts, but provide us with lots of good stories, anecdotes, political views -- as honestly as they allow their thoughts to exist. WOW. Can you imagine doing that elsewhere? What kind of conversations do people have in the privacy of their own homes? The same people they`ve met many times, talk about the same things they`ve always talked about...with some added Masala.
The circle of your acquaintances got bigger, there was more room in this drawing room for other people, other opinions...for people to fail, for people to make assertions that get blown to bits (as I`m happily doing to you). And this is not as comforting as sitting somewhere and repeating the same stuff over and over again.
And BTW what does Chowk censor ? May I know? I think that there has to be a common language to communicate, and if it`s a polite one..what`s the harm?
OK, I should apologise yet again for getting carried away into such a long post. I moved away from home when I was 18, and before that at parties at home, I used to be always hanging around listening to older people talk -- about Politics, about institutions...whatever. And when I moved away to this isolated environment I missed that. Familiar people talking about stuff, so I can learn. I`ve started writing here too now, testing my own ideas. I don`t use the fanciest words, but this place let`s me talk...and that`s important to me.
Noise, generated for the sole purpose of irritating and causing conflicts irritates me. If people want to get into mudslinging matches they can get to the chats/forums and let it out...as some people did here at Chowk. They have nothing of value to contribute so the only way they communicate is by making these noises.
I guess they have their rights too!
``Don`t knock it[rag] till your try it.``
YEAH. Knock it after I`ve tried and tested it, and only if it changes without asking me first...that`s what you do right?
Capitalism...power to the consumers..give them what they want Chowk Editors...otherwise you wouldn`t be making those multi-million dollars that you make right now!!! Give them a Pakistani Chowk. Where no Indian is allowed without a Visa, and even if allowed, they have to report every day to a CHOWKIDAR. And make an Indian Chowk too....with similar rules if desired.
Or maybe make an Indian Bashing unit, Pakistan Bashing unit. Muslim Bashing done here for 2 cents only. Hindu Bashing for free today...ALSO win a T-SHIRT if you participate equally in all our forums! Win $100 for most effective and hurtful accusation.
And the people who win in this contests can then be nominated to run our countries, and we`ll continue our trends happily ever after....
dreaming...
Brat
#60 Posted by Asim on July 21, 2000 2:39:00 pm
Re : Anamika #57
Hi Anamika,
I think you took some of my comments out of context, and hence are a bit perturbed, to say the least. Let me clarify again. When i wrote about those indians, it was naturally meant to include the ``subset`` of all indians who do indulge in such petty behaviour. More importantly you tended to ignore my comment that they are often met with an equally insolent, rabid response from some on ``our`` side too. That i found was more pathtic because two wrongs never make a right.
``Second``, you must mean, not ``seconmd``.
Hope this helps.
It sure did. I rest my case about having to be so careful about crossing my t`s and dotting the i`s such that often what is being discussed gets relegated to obscurity.
``Another insolent(?), idiotic, raid Indian.``
I hope not. I dont handle them very well, and therefore tend to stay away... BTW, what is ``raid indian``, ..surely what are you trying to say...
Re: Taimurmalik
Sir,
I stand corrected on the issue of your having already nominated Mr Abdus Salam for making you proud by mentioning his name after about 12 other names. and saying,..``Oh and of course Abdus salam``. So that makes a total of 3 people in about 50 responses, up 1 from 2 people out of 50 responses. Historically, i have never been very good at arithemetic, but i feel 3/50 is not tremendously more than 2/50. Dont you think.
Most of us have unresolved issues about what to make of Mr Abdus Salam`s sheer genius, and often get tangled up between his freedom of choice for his ``religion`` and his achievements. The two, one must learn, are mutually exclusive. Thats why i feel my rather existensial diatribes are perhaps justified, even though repetition might have taken away its impact.
Shandana,
I apologise for having hijacked your thread, by digressing to side-issues. Last post on subject. Will not happen again.
Arrivederci,
Asim
Hi Anamika,
I think you took some of my comments out of context, and hence are a bit perturbed, to say the least. Let me clarify again. When i wrote about those indians, it was naturally meant to include the ``subset`` of all indians who do indulge in such petty behaviour. More importantly you tended to ignore my comment that they are often met with an equally insolent, rabid response from some on ``our`` side too. That i found was more pathtic because two wrongs never make a right.
``Second``, you must mean, not ``seconmd``.
Hope this helps.
It sure did. I rest my case about having to be so careful about crossing my t`s and dotting the i`s such that often what is being discussed gets relegated to obscurity.
``Another insolent(?), idiotic, raid Indian.``
I hope not. I dont handle them very well, and therefore tend to stay away... BTW, what is ``raid indian``, ..surely what are you trying to say...
Re: Taimurmalik
Sir,
I stand corrected on the issue of your having already nominated Mr Abdus Salam for making you proud by mentioning his name after about 12 other names. and saying,..``Oh and of course Abdus salam``. So that makes a total of 3 people in about 50 responses, up 1 from 2 people out of 50 responses. Historically, i have never been very good at arithemetic, but i feel 3/50 is not tremendously more than 2/50. Dont you think.
Most of us have unresolved issues about what to make of Mr Abdus Salam`s sheer genius, and often get tangled up between his freedom of choice for his ``religion`` and his achievements. The two, one must learn, are mutually exclusive. Thats why i feel my rather existensial diatribes are perhaps justified, even though repetition might have taken away its impact.
Shandana,
I apologise for having hijacked your thread, by digressing to side-issues. Last post on subject. Will not happen again.
Arrivederci,
Asim
#62 Posted by Asim on July 21, 2000 5:40:40 pm
Brat,
Wish you were a bit more patient, and a lot less passionate. Patience can help in not being presumptious and therefore prevent passing of erroneous judgements, prematurely.
I have to concede, what you write is true, people are products of their envirnoments. In this day and age, labels do count. Denial about such basic facts leads to hopeless optimism. there is nothing wrong with labels, however what does count eventually, is the person behind the labels. one can not hide behind laurels and labels for far too long. I am a strong believer in the fact that its not the university which makes one whom he/she is, its him/her. I would not comment on the label issue any more. it would become too rhetorical.
Again, i find myself agreeing with you, regarding the degree of distrust on both sides. It is merely a function of the agendas of the respective governments. While the act of surpassing these prejudices and speaking from your heart is most comendable, one has to understand that misdirected anger is an equally precipitous thing to do.. Now thats where patience comes in handy. if you had only waited one more posting, before exhaling, you might have been pleasantly surprised to see that i am not against indians per se.
Sure i had written that this used to be a Pakistani site before, and was made into A sOUTH ASIAN site. It is not that it bothers me, but my point was that ``personalness`` which i felt in dealing with my own countrymen was somehow diminshed. When Chowk was started, there were hardly any worthy Pakistani discussion sites. chowk was a welcome relief. Dont get me wrong. While i am all for south asia and cooperation between the two countries, i am not inclined to viewing them as BEING ONE. We have separate ideologies, even though we were one 50 odd years back. That does not mean that i dont respect India as a sovereign state, just as much as i respect Pakistan as one. It just means, that we are same same but DIFFERENT. or maybe not different enough.still, we misunderstand each other all the time! No wonder the politicians at the highest level make the same mistakes as we do, in trying to size each otehr up.
In a way its great that Chowk has opened the venues for dialogue at least between the two peoples. My only critique was that recently, (over the past year or so), i have seen a new breed of indian patrons ravaging the sanctity of this Site. naturally this gave rise to, or was the result of a similar breed of pakistani mindset, which was hell bent on being too holier than thou. Its this aspect of the interactions which i had trouble disgesting. Its the same on most Pakistani forums, where a few indian troublemakers bring out the worst in us, Pakistanis, by becoming too critical or lose touch with their own reality. This is indeed deplorable. Some here indulge in demolishing what we hold dear to our hearts, and naturally it evokes sentiments of equal derision from their counterparts. Result: India 0; Pakistan 0.
In your zeal, to write you misunderstood me once again when you thought the garbage i was referring to was mostly of indian origin. This is most gullible not to mention presumptious. Most here can perhaps testify that i am not as ``petty`` as you have imagined me to be. Let me spell it out for you. Indians do not have the monopoly over garbage articles being posted here, just like Pakistanis dont either. What i was deploring was that sadly ``garbage`` did go through, on the main page, and as most can testfiy its on the increase. Those flood gates need to be brought down quick, to preserve tghe credibility of a ``south-asian`` thinktank like the Chowk.After all, Is it not the motto for Chowk,..``where all are allowed to read, write, and think``. It is very noble indeed.
This is my very frank and honest opinion. Respect begets respect, they say. Let us make an effort to clear our misunderstandings first before we go off the deep end.
Asim
P.S IMHO, I have yet to see an indian forum embracing ``Pakistanis`` in such an easygoing manner.Trust me i have been too a few.
P.P.S Perhaps you would be surprised to know that as a retaliation the good people of Chowk had to close down the Chowk Forums, due to the increased level of abuse being carried out here in the name discussions. Both parties involement was fundamental in having the forums closed!
Wish you were a bit more patient, and a lot less passionate. Patience can help in not being presumptious and therefore prevent passing of erroneous judgements, prematurely.
I have to concede, what you write is true, people are products of their envirnoments. In this day and age, labels do count. Denial about such basic facts leads to hopeless optimism. there is nothing wrong with labels, however what does count eventually, is the person behind the labels. one can not hide behind laurels and labels for far too long. I am a strong believer in the fact that its not the university which makes one whom he/she is, its him/her. I would not comment on the label issue any more. it would become too rhetorical.
Again, i find myself agreeing with you, regarding the degree of distrust on both sides. It is merely a function of the agendas of the respective governments. While the act of surpassing these prejudices and speaking from your heart is most comendable, one has to understand that misdirected anger is an equally precipitous thing to do.. Now thats where patience comes in handy. if you had only waited one more posting, before exhaling, you might have been pleasantly surprised to see that i am not against indians per se.
Sure i had written that this used to be a Pakistani site before, and was made into A sOUTH ASIAN site. It is not that it bothers me, but my point was that ``personalness`` which i felt in dealing with my own countrymen was somehow diminshed. When Chowk was started, there were hardly any worthy Pakistani discussion sites. chowk was a welcome relief. Dont get me wrong. While i am all for south asia and cooperation between the two countries, i am not inclined to viewing them as BEING ONE. We have separate ideologies, even though we were one 50 odd years back. That does not mean that i dont respect India as a sovereign state, just as much as i respect Pakistan as one. It just means, that we are same same but DIFFERENT. or maybe not different enough.still, we misunderstand each other all the time! No wonder the politicians at the highest level make the same mistakes as we do, in trying to size each otehr up.
In a way its great that Chowk has opened the venues for dialogue at least between the two peoples. My only critique was that recently, (over the past year or so), i have seen a new breed of indian patrons ravaging the sanctity of this Site. naturally this gave rise to, or was the result of a similar breed of pakistani mindset, which was hell bent on being too holier than thou. Its this aspect of the interactions which i had trouble disgesting. Its the same on most Pakistani forums, where a few indian troublemakers bring out the worst in us, Pakistanis, by becoming too critical or lose touch with their own reality. This is indeed deplorable. Some here indulge in demolishing what we hold dear to our hearts, and naturally it evokes sentiments of equal derision from their counterparts. Result: India 0; Pakistan 0.
In your zeal, to write you misunderstood me once again when you thought the garbage i was referring to was mostly of indian origin. This is most gullible not to mention presumptious. Most here can perhaps testify that i am not as ``petty`` as you have imagined me to be. Let me spell it out for you. Indians do not have the monopoly over garbage articles being posted here, just like Pakistanis dont either. What i was deploring was that sadly ``garbage`` did go through, on the main page, and as most can testfiy its on the increase. Those flood gates need to be brought down quick, to preserve tghe credibility of a ``south-asian`` thinktank like the Chowk.After all, Is it not the motto for Chowk,..``where all are allowed to read, write, and think``. It is very noble indeed.
This is my very frank and honest opinion. Respect begets respect, they say. Let us make an effort to clear our misunderstandings first before we go off the deep end.
Asim
P.S IMHO, I have yet to see an indian forum embracing ``Pakistanis`` in such an easygoing manner.Trust me i have been too a few.
P.P.S Perhaps you would be surprised to know that as a retaliation the good people of Chowk had to close down the Chowk Forums, due to the increased level of abuse being carried out here in the name discussions. Both parties involement was fundamental in having the forums closed!
#63 Posted by firaq on July 21, 2000 5:40:40 pm
Good list though a little disappointing to see Imran Khan`s name there. If there should be any cricketer, it should be Miandad. Personally, I think Imran is an elitist bufoon.
And of course, Dr. Abdus Salam has to be there too, not just because he was one of the finest physcisits of this century, but also because he dedicated his life to the betterment of science and education in the third world.
And of course, Dr. Abdus Salam has to be there too, not just because he was one of the finest physcisits of this century, but also because he dedicated his life to the betterment of science and education in the third world.
#64 Posted by Assad_K on July 21, 2000 7:12:54 pm
Well, a courageous effort by Jay and Nameless to divert this forum, too, to the `real` purpose of Chowk - Indo-Pak bashing!
Asim, you may be being unfair to people here. For the most part (and the shamsheer-wavers are laying a wee bit low just now), I think that the Pakistani contributors are above denying Prof Abdus Salaam on the basis of his religion. Indeed, as a person who was denied by Pakistan but who never denied Pakistan, he must not be forgotten. But we don`t all need to write in an agreement every time we see a name, and sometimes we just plain forget people in a response. I know that I did, as well as the names of others whom I should have mentioned.. but fortunately not everyone is so scatterbrained in their postings!
Regards, AK
Asim, you may be being unfair to people here. For the most part (and the shamsheer-wavers are laying a wee bit low just now), I think that the Pakistani contributors are above denying Prof Abdus Salaam on the basis of his religion. Indeed, as a person who was denied by Pakistan but who never denied Pakistan, he must not be forgotten. But we don`t all need to write in an agreement every time we see a name, and sometimes we just plain forget people in a response. I know that I did, as well as the names of others whom I should have mentioned.. but fortunately not everyone is so scatterbrained in their postings!
Regards, AK
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