Facts O-level and facts low level

Omar:

Welcome to the unformatted world of Chowk. I want to give the benfit of the doubt to the cyber geni! Thus geni struck twice, In this article and in the previous one by Zeenat. Just a comment on aesthetics -- not to take anything away from the contents, though. I read this as a continuation of what Pervez Hoodbhoy has been articulating for some time now.

regards,

temporal

Hmmm... do the textbooks make any mention of India at all???

temporal:

``It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.``
-- Teddy Roosevelt

This for your continuing fixation on spellings and formatting on various articles. I think you are entitled to a honorary position in some grade 8 class of the schools I`ve had the honour of going to. It seems to me that in those days where you placed the comma and how you framed things was of utmost importance and life, the universe and everything else was insignificant.

Maybe I`m taking this too far. Sorry. Just hate to see digressions on trivial things. But I, too have been baffled with the `trivial` though it was in Math classes where the professor concluded by saying that the proof was trivial, when it was anything but for me! Is that the case here?

Brat

temporal:

``It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.``
-- Teddy Roosevelt

This for your continuing fixation on spellings and formatting on various articles. I think you are entitled to a honorary position in some grade 8 class of the schools I`ve had the honour of going to. It seems to me that in those days where you placed the comma and how you framed things was of utmost importance and life, the universe and everything else was insignificant.

Maybe I`m taking this too far. Sorry. Just hate to see digressions on trivial things. But I, too have been baffled with the `trivial` though it was in Math classes where the professor concluded by saying that the proof was trivial, when it was anything but for me! Is that the case here?

Brat

Brat #3:

Excellent quotation. Thanks for sharing.

When we/I interact it is seldom a comprehensive critique/analysis/dissection of the article or poem. Most of the time we/I dwell on one aspect or the other and express our views on it. Or more frequently, pick out what some interactor had said and express our views on it.

I apologise to you and others whom I may have irked inadvertently by my seemingly undue empahsis on word usage, presentation (formatting), marshaling of arguments. We experience enough chaos in day to day life already. I know I do. If I felt like reading expressions and experimentation that are sublimely outrageous from the ridiculous to the profane I know where to find them. I would not come here. Hence my chiding and mild criticism of those who harm the word. Why the written word is SO important in my life? Perhaps the priorities are wired differently in me?

regards,

temporal

PS: THANKS ED -- for fixing the presentation.

Re:anyone

I am not very familiar with difference between o-level and matric. If I understand right it is the same standard but the first is for rich kids and the second from the unimportant majority. The rich kids also generally mean educated parents ( with exceptions of course). So it seems that the government, in its wisdom, has decided that religion, slogans for sacrifices etc are only meant for those who do not know better. I must confess I fully agree with the government.

Just wondering. How does Temporal always get to be the first out with a posting?

On the flip side, this is quite progressive a curriculum considering what they offer in the madrassas!!

cheers

re jagdeep #5:

You`ve hit it right on the dot.One more example of why an outside rather than an ``expert`` opinion is so invaluable.

Omar: thanks for adding to the ongoing debate about the quality of teachng in our public schools.What do you think we should do?

later

-sac

RE: Uqab #6

Dear Uqab,
Unlike print and electronic media (except internet), where we do not have any option other than to accept what they pour down our throats, Chowk and other forums are a blessing. At Chowk all participants critically evaluate all ideas that are presented to them. People dissect these ideas, interpret them with their perception, and try to evaluate their perceptions with others. That is what makes Chowk great. Here at Chowk we realize that everybody is different and unique-sometimes it breeds contempt but in my opinion it also breeds respect. The best thing that we learn from here is tolerance, which in real life is a rare animal.

Some people analyze ideas that are presented in the articles whereas Temporal has also a knowledge base that enables him to evaluate their literary value. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a great help to writers to make improvements in their future endeavors. Temporal`s analyses are objective and unbiased; and that has earned him a respect throughout the board. Temporal is also a human being like us, sometimes he is arrogant while pushing his agenda but he doesn`t break any norm. As a human being I also found him decent and polite. For your information, I am saying all this despite the fact that we (me and Temp) belong to extreme poles in our political view points.

Sir, your personal attacks on Temporal were totally uncalled for and indecent; and that does not happen very often at this board. I found them very disturbing, offensive and impolite.

re: Omar Quraishi

A nice comparison of the two systems. The matric system does need improvement. The writers of the text books will definitely need to be more objective. I am sure there is a general realization of this in society and a healthy disregard for the matric curriculum (except the fringe). I am more concerned with the attitude of the O-level textbook writer who tries to make sweeping generalizations like the ``culture of underdevelopment``.

``whether the `disarticulated capitalism` of the Third World will be able to provide some sort of cementing bond to remove the political and economic dichotomies of the region.``

Need to get rid of economic dichotomies I can understand. Disarticulated capitalism without political dichotomies- is this a recommendation for Augusto Pinochet? Maybe the author of this textbook is a fan of the Thatcher government. I prefer ``God helps those who help themselves``.

Ashish

Hi Sir! I was your student about a year back in Kinnaird. Nice to see your work on Chowk and though I`m no oldie here myself, I will say welcome to Chowk: once you start coming here, you wouldn`t want to leave! :)

I absolutely agree with you that Matric textbooks need to be revised..in fact, Pakistan`s entire education system should be revised. I will however add one thing: I did my O`Levels from LGS (Defence) in 1995 and I studied from the Pakistan Studies textbook that did not leave my side till I gave my Bachelors last year. It was a book by M.Ikram Rabbani and EVERYONE used to study from it. It was a horrible horrible book and it was a part of the O`Level course. I don`t know how much the system has changed since I graduated (I like to think I`m not that ancient so the system has probably changed little) but there was this anomaly in O`Levels then.

Matriculation exams, F.A, B.A, all need to be revised but I will also add here, if I may, that there is so much cheating nowadays in O and A Level exams in every city of Pakistan that it is shameful. Perhaps something should be done about this before we are banned from the London and Cambridge boards!

Brat and Uqab:

I, for one, really appreciate temporal`s analysis and his criticism because it is healthy criticism. He actually bothers to read every thing and then, very politely, points out mistakes. Nothing wrong with that, in fact I personally feel good that someone has gone to so much trouble to read and analyse my piece. And besides, he`s good at it so why not admire him for it? He`s certainly better than any grade 8 teacher I`ve ever had!!!!!!

I had read Pakistan: A political Economy by Nadeem Qaiser for my O Level Exams and I was quite impressed by his depth of vision into Pakistani Politics. I ended up getting a B in the Pakistan Studies O Levels. Where as the Book is very informative I sometimes think it is perhaps too much for just O Levels.......

Nadeem Qaiser by the way is/was also the director of Bloomfield Hall schools in Pakistan ... where I studied from Kindergarten to 8th grade.....

Now coming to O Levels vs Matric. There is no question of the superiority of the GCE O level curriculum over Matric... I cant say because I really have had no real experience in the Matric System ... . We need to however establish a system

which is based more on GCSE/IGCSE O LEVEL system instead of GCE O level ... I cannot describe the precise differences that exist between an GCSE/IGCSE O level curriculum and GCE O level ....

When I took my O level exams back in 1997 .... I took 7 GCE O level exams from ULEAC... and one IGCSE O level from Cambridge.... I found the one IGCSE O level (in Business Studies) to be more practical in its questioning .... and more thorough ... instead of taking just one 3 hour exam we took 3 different exams ... which dealt with different areas ...

Some 8 years ago GCE O level was abolished in the UK (GCE A Level remains) and was substituted by

GCSE .... GCSE is more classroom oriented. I see a definite trend in the British Education towards Americanization ... which can be a double edged sword. However the way GCSE followed GCE A levels is today is perhaps the most perfect Secondary/High School system in the world (in my opinion) and can serve to be a model for our own educational system ... which frankly from what I hear is in the Gutters .....

-Pakistan Zindabad

I had read Pakistan: A political Economy by Nadeem Qaiser for my O Level Exams and I was quite impressed by his depth of vision into Pakistani Politics. I ended up getting a B in the Pakistan Studies O Levels. Where as the Book is very informative I sometimes think it is perhaps too much for just O Levels.......

Nadeem Qaiser by the way is/was also the director of Bloomfield Hall schools in Pakistan ... where I studied from Kindergarten to 8th grade.....

Now coming to O Levels vs Matric. There is no question of the superiority of the GCE O level curriculum over Matric... I cant say because I really have had no real experience in the Matric System ... . We need to however establish a system

which is based more on GCSE/IGCSE O LEVEL system instead of GCE O level ... I cannot describe the precise differences that exist between an GCSE/IGCSE O level curriculum and GCE O level ....

When I took my O level exams back in 1997 .... I took 7 GCE O level exams from ULEAC... and one IGCSE O level from Cambridge.... I found the one IGCSE O level (in Business Studies) to be more practical in its questioning .... and more thorough ... instead of taking just one 3 hour exam we took 3 different exams ... which dealt with different areas ...

Some 8 years ago GCE O level was abolished in the UK (GCE A Level remains) and was substituted by

GCSE .... GCSE is more classroom oriented. I see a definite trend in the British Education towards Americanization ... which can be a double edged sword. However the way GCSE followed GCE A levels is today is perhaps the most perfect Secondary/High School system in the world (in my opinion) and can serve to be a model for our own educational system ... which frankly from what I hear is in the Gutters .....

-Pakistan Zindabad

Re: temporal

``I apologise to you and others whom I may have irked inadvertently by my seemingly undue empahsis on word usage, presentation (formatting), marshaling of arguments.``

No apologies needed here. I`m glad someone does it. It irks and annoys me to read articles some people post without paying attention to something as simple as grammar. Makes them seem uneducated when in reality they are not.

Thanks.

Re: temporal

Urstruly, thanks for your response....well, I have said something in the past about temporal`s English grammer and formatting thingy, but you know, I really do admire him for keeping an eye on minute detalis....only shows how keen and sharp an observer he is...and I find his criticism to be eloquent, well intended, and of the highest standard...(don`t necessarily agree with everything he says though :)

Temporal`s contributions on this site are enormous. Know him well before you dish out your crap about this man.

Temporal, please continue to point out any grammer or formatting errors...I (being a peela school boy) learn a lot from your comments...