Lahore Notes, March 2000

re: Satish #11

Amen to that.

regards,

Kabuli

Kabuli

I agree that any revision is a double edged sword. Though I believe most of the harm to Indian cause was done by colonialists and then marxist establishment, I am very much aware of the crazies moving around with funny ideas on the other end of the spectrum. But that doesnot constitute an excuse to do nothing, does it? We just have to be very very careful not to let any different sort of trash come in the name of history. But we have to remove the trash we have. We have to make people see what India exactly signifies. We, a very large number of people of very different, often conflicting backgrounds have started on a nation building process based on democracy, rule of law and unity in diversity. It is something every Indian should take part in and be proud of. The concept of India is larger than the sum of its units. It is larger than Hindus, Muslims, its different states. I think it is a matter of time, and also of education, a real education at that, before Indians start really appreciating India.

But all signs are positive. Though we have much to go, at least the direction is correct, and we are just about starting to speed up.

Thanks for considering me a friend. I appreciate that.

re: satish#7

Thank you Satish for the appreciation. Indians should be more vocal about their opinions. Else they will only stay as mute audiences while clowns with funny ideas run about formulating and experimenting. Silence is agreement. Indian public has to be educated about India, her vitality and Indians should be taught to demand for their rights. Congress and Leftist versions of history should be discarded and attempts have to be made at objectivity. However, revision is a double edged sword. It will remove the blunders of the past, but it may include the evils of the present. So, revision of our education system is a very difficult task and has to be handled by only the most competent and honest of scholars.

But in any case, I am happy that I have found a friend.

regards,

Kabuli

An enjoyable article. But the learned professor makes a grave error if he thinks Mr Khalid Ahmad is sincere in his Confederation idea - the very notion that individual states enter the condeferation as individuals and not as an India is the interesting were not a repeat of the TNT ideology taken to the extremes of `n`NT.

Mr Ahmad needs to rexamine the failures of the TNT

before putting forth his idea of the confederation -it didnot work in the US, the TNT failed here on the Indian Sub-continent, and as far as I can see until the islamic hoards are defeated pakistan should kept at an arms distance - but interactions takung palce so that that misguided society can be brought back in a fit state to live civilised society.

Just a tad bit controvertial - oopps and yes some smilies and a touch of sarcasm is peppered here

An enjoyable article. But the learned professor makes a grave error if he thinks Mr Khalid Ahmad is sincere in his Confederation idea - the very notion that individual states enter the condeferation as individuals and not as an India is the interesting were not a repeat of the TNT ideology taken to the extremes of `n`NT.

Mr Ahmad needs to rexamine the failures of the TNT

before putting forth his idea of the confederation -it didnot work in the US, the TNT failed here on the Indian Sub-continent, and as far as I can see until the islamic hoards are defeated pakistan should kept at an arms distance - but interactions takung palce so that that misguided society can be brought back in a fit state to live civilised society.

Kabuli

This is from another satish who doesnot want any confederation at all :-) Read your posts and liked your ideas. As someone who still considers himself as young (in my thirties) though not so young from your point of view :-), all I want to say is, more power to you friend. As far as the dissolution theory is concerned, my reply is no, no, NO, NEVER!!!

I love India, the concept, the country that we have built, more than anything else. It is going to dissolve OVER MY DEAD BODY! And of many many others like me.

Very interesting Satish. Seems a rather rushed analysis, but it is understandable keeping in mind your trip itself was probably short and rushed.

BTW, do you know Dr. Shahid Amin, the head of the department of history at DU? Do let me know.

Satish:

A very nice and observant write-up!

There are few points that I would like to clarify and will add my thoughts on them later.

The initial impression that I gathered: Your mind was very quickly registering the surroundings, so you were not sure about certain things if they are as they are or there is something more to them.

Very recently, I was invited for a luncheon meeting by an Indian friend, at her place. Previously, I`ve dined with my Sikh friends in school, but never with the Non-Sikhs (at least when it comes to going to their home and having a meal). Most of the times they were my age group, so the youngsters will be fine with the greetings `Hello/Hi.`

Here, the crowd had quite a few seniors, and some folks who were visiting from Delhi. So there was a lot of `Pra`naa`m`!

I came across quite a few Delhi-ites and Jaipurees. All ready to compare Delhi Main Yeh` Hota Hae` and what about Lahore ?

Some Interesting Comments:

re: Anamika#3

You said:

``Kabuli, I sort of agree with you about the confederation
business. However, it is not implausible to imagine that India,
Bangladesh and Pakistan will dissolve leaving behind a
united Punjab, Bengal etc. with or without them forming a
federation.``

What I wrote about earlier holds true for India and Pakistan as it does for the two Punjabs and two Bengals. Can Muslim West Punjab and Sikh&Hindu East Punjab see eye to eye? Will Hindu West Bengal and Bangladesh have common cause? I just don`t get this dissolving business. In India`s case, if say Punjab, Haryana and UP go their separate ways, who will feed the other states? If Maharashtra along with Bombay goes its own way, where will the northern states ship their products from? If Bihar and other mineral rich states go their own way, where will the rest get their raw materials from? Of course then people will say, there can be trade and agreements between the various separate groups. But why can`t they have it within the present union? And even if we consider that such a situation will exist, as sacrilegeous the thought already is, where will the dissolving stop? In Andhra Pradesh`s case, though the whole state more or less speaks Telugu, there are 4 sub-provinces as far as I know, there maybe more, namely Telangana, Circars, Konaseema and Rayalseema. They have their own dialects and ways of cooking and stuff. Will it stop there or will the minorities again demand a separate province of their own?

This dissolving business is a big pandora`s box. Those who air these dissolving theories cannot want anything but the destruction of India. If Pakistanis want to dissolve their country and I doubt if many of them do, then that is their problem. But if they hope to draw India into their unrealism and senility, then they are living in a fool`s paradise. I as an Indian have hope and faith in my country and I`m sure that most of my countrymen share that faith with me. Things are looking up for India. Things can only get better. Let this Kashmir thing get resolved. God willing, with capable and competent leadership we can harness the potential of India and her masses and transform her into a nation which can be an example for some other Asian, African and Latin American countries to emulate. Then we will give the Chinese a run for their money. I like that thought :) Just give us time to grow up and finish our studies... then you will see


Kabuli

Nice article and I enjoyed reading it.

As to what set off Kashmir, perhaps a simmering resentment from `71 as the author notes, but most definitely, the American involvement in Afghan resistance. All of South Asia is more violent now because AK47 and RDX are easy to come by and can kill more people than home-smithed rifles and country bombs ever could.

American are criminally responsible for the mess that Afghanistan is in today and they are hypocritical to pretend to be concerned about a nuclear conflagration in South Asia.

Kabuli, I sort of agree with you about the confederation business. However, it is not implausible to imagine that India, Bangladesh and Pakistan will dissolve leaving behind a united Punjab, Bengal etc. with or without them forming a federation.

An interesting ``look`` from the other side!

Like Beena said, the more people meet and talk and see that we all are just...people, maybe this mess will be sorted out sooner rather than later!

Ciao!

Damn all these Indians who are writing on their experiences in Pakistan…they are taking away my opportunity to become an author (and thus famous) on Chowk…just when I was thinking of writing on my experiences in Pakistan…and as my luck would have it, Lahore was where my friend and his family hosted me with so much love and generosity. In any case, liked the article except for the last paragraph. With all due respect to the learned author and editor, what nonsense! Indians and Pakistanis, more often than I would like, tend to become too corny and reminiscent and over friendly when in each other`s company , no? Drunk with ridiculousness, they then start to air these grandiose, utopian, pseudo intellectual ideas that are doomed for disaster like most drawing board theories do. They just don`t take ground realities into account. Look here people, partition happened and I think sometimes that it happened for Indian good when it happened. No longer is Indian policy, both state and foreign, held hostage by Islamicist demands. India is free to do whatever is in her best interests. We don`t have to finance jehads in some God forsaken lands. We can support Israel if it is in our interest. What I am trying to say is, India would have been in a worse position had there been no partition. There would be the threat of secession from Muslims constantly hanging over the government`s head if their demands, right or wrong, were not met. And if they did secede at a later stage I think the division of assets would be more in favor of Pakistan than in 1947. So Indians should celebrate partition and independence, get over the 53 year old trauma and get on with building the country. Having said all that, I am not saying that Indian Muslims are traitors and should be discriminated against. All I am saying is that India can do whatever is in Indian interest and that includes all Indians, not just Hindus. We can pursue a secular agenda, without falling prey to religious passions. Having said that also, we are in a perilous position where certain Hindu outfits are making their entry into Indian policy. There is nothing wrong with them being Hindu or them being proud of their Hinduness just as Muslims are proud of being Muslims. But what is definitely wrong is that they are giving national policies a religious tinge and that is dangerous. We have lessons of Pakistan to learn from. Let not India fall into the same trap. Why have I said all this? It was because of the author`s last paragraph where he envisions a confederation of South Asia. Will all the problems dissolve then? Will people stop being Hindu and Muslim and will their prejudices and fears vanish? Will their interests be the same? Will Muslim provinces have common cause with Hindu provinces? The answer to all these is a loud NO. The author and editor, rightly or wrongly, hold esteemed positions in people`s minds and they should know better. Their generation has screwed up on numerous occasions and now they want to ruin it for us. They have left us nothing but a legacy of more conflict, corruption and shame. The next generation is here, armed with better communication and less subjective knowledge. Things are not hunky dory in India…I don`t know about Pakistan, but I as an Indian have the hope and the courage to make India better. I have dreams of a strong and prosperous India, whose banner is held aloft by proud Indian citizens, in its present form, not the truncated and weak form the author and editor have in mind. Let Pakistanis do what they want with their country. Let us not put India and Pakistan in the same basket. Let the younger Indian generation get its chance to prove itself before you kick the chair from under its feet. You had your chance and you didn`t do much with it, now it`s our turn. Let the younger generation take it from here, you have done enough…no thanks.

Kabuli

PS. Happy independence day to YLH