India Unvarnished
Murad A Baig August 15, 2000
#42 Posted by Urstruly on August 16, 2000 11:25:41 am
RE: Friend# 38
That still does not answer my question. May be I was not specific enough. I think Sudheer is trying to imply that the words OM, Omnipresent, the English phrase ``alpha and omega``, the Christian term Amen and the Muslim term Aamin are all equivalent in meaning. It is also my understanding that all of the above terms mean ``Omnipresent``; or does it? I am really doubtfull about Amen and Aamin. One can also draw a conclusion that English, Arabic, Greek and Roman languages borrowed the word from Sanskrit or vice versa. Is he also trying to imply that the ideologies behind those words were also ``exchanged``. So my question again is that what is he trying to say?
Sudheer:
I give you a head start. My next question will be about THAT Meteor.
The two questions next to that might be the definition of the terms ``Humanism`` and ``Rationalism``.
That still does not answer my question. May be I was not specific enough. I think Sudheer is trying to imply that the words OM, Omnipresent, the English phrase ``alpha and omega``, the Christian term Amen and the Muslim term Aamin are all equivalent in meaning. It is also my understanding that all of the above terms mean ``Omnipresent``; or does it? I am really doubtfull about Amen and Aamin. One can also draw a conclusion that English, Arabic, Greek and Roman languages borrowed the word from Sanskrit or vice versa. Is he also trying to imply that the ideologies behind those words were also ``exchanged``. So my question again is that what is he trying to say?
Sudheer:
I give you a head start. My next question will be about THAT Meteor.
The two questions next to that might be the definition of the terms ``Humanism`` and ``Rationalism``.
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#41 Posted by mohajir on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
Check this site on Ancient India, Indian history, mythology, culture, religion etc.
Kamat`s Potpourri
http://www.kamat.com
Discover India, Discover yourself
Kamat`s Potpourri
http://www.kamat.com
Discover India, Discover yourself
#40 Posted by macgupta on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
Differences in build are more related to childhood nutrition, health and living conditions than to genetics. For example, the average Japanese height has increased by ten centimeters from 1900 to 1980, without any new genes. The average young Japanese is now as tall on the average as the young European.
-arun gupta
#39 Posted by macgupta on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
Differences in build are more related to childhood nutrition and health than to genetics. For example, the average Japanese height has increased by ten centimeters from 1900 to 1980, without any new genes. The average young Japanese is now as tall on the average as the young European.
-arun gupta
#38 Posted by friend on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
Urstruly#: 33
That site attempts to explain different aspects of Hindusim. `Om` is one of the key symbols associated with Hinduism. That is why that site started with an explanation of that symbol.
Sudheer #32
Welcome to Chowk. Why don`t you contribute an article on this site. I believe that editors will welcome publishing that.
Regards
That site attempts to explain different aspects of Hindusim. `Om` is one of the key symbols associated with Hinduism. That is why that site started with an explanation of that symbol.
Sudheer #32
Welcome to Chowk. Why don`t you contribute an article on this site. I believe that editors will welcome publishing that.
Regards
#37 Posted by satish on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
One more point, the author seems to believe that civilization in India started only at the advent of Dravidians, from somewhere, around 3000 BC. I wish he`d read about the Mehergarh site, where a continuous township has been dug dating back all the way from 6500 BC.
I have no problem with the fact that we all may have originated somewhere in Africa. My proble is why all the invasions/migrations had to occur within last 4000 years? When there are ample proofs that human civilization existed in some form or other in many parts of the world all the way back to 50000BC or even earlier. I think we are fighting a battle with the last remnants of biblical time-scales (You know, world originated 4004BC, one fine morning in late October, Noah`s flood in 2200BC, etc.)and how do you explain the continuous presence of Australlian aborigins on the continent of Australlia for 40000 years at least? But again, for colonialists, they are not human, are they? And only what the colonialists taught us can ever be true!
I have no problem with the fact that we all may have originated somewhere in Africa. My proble is why all the invasions/migrations had to occur within last 4000 years? When there are ample proofs that human civilization existed in some form or other in many parts of the world all the way back to 50000BC or even earlier. I think we are fighting a battle with the last remnants of biblical time-scales (You know, world originated 4004BC, one fine morning in late October, Noah`s flood in 2200BC, etc.)and how do you explain the continuous presence of Australlian aborigins on the continent of Australlia for 40000 years at least? But again, for colonialists, they are not human, are they? And only what the colonialists taught us can ever be true!
#36 Posted by satish on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
I am sorry I was out of town after I put my previous post so couldnot take part in the discussion earlier. But most of the things I wanted to say have been said already by others. In any case, here is what I think.
It is not tough to explain the difference in skin colors. It is true that statistically speaking, north Indians are fairer than south Indians. But once again, the difference is not much. It looks so only because we Indians have made a fetish of fairness. If we see the complete spectrum of skin colors, from very fair nordics and russians to very dark central africans, then the `fair` northerners and `dark` southerners, both come somewhere in the middle. It all depends on how much melanin your skin creates, in order to beat the sunlight. As melanin creation is a genetic trait, it takes time to change, but it is reasonable to believe that in a few hundred generations, natural selection takes over and the skin color changes. Add to it the natural wandering tendencies of humand and you may be sure that the most you can think of is a broad statistical distribution of skin colors around the world; nothing like the cut and dried `racial groups` so popular with colonialists and racists.
For example, Italians and Spanish have a much darker color than Nordics or Scots, and they rarely have blue eyes, but no one thinks of them as another race. If you plot the distance between the poles and equator and make a corresponding change in the statistical average skin color for every mile, you will find that the north and south Indians have more or less the expected colors. You dont have to import them from anywhere to explain that.
The statistics are much poorer in the case of casts. My experience has been that almost all the castes in extreme north of India and in Pakistan are fair, and again my experience has been that most of south Indian upper castes are dark too. I come from a Brahmin family of UP/Bihar and my relatives have skin colors ranging from very dark to very fair. The other people of my ancestral village also have more or less the same color. The only difference is the people who work in fields in sun, they are invariable very dark.
Basically I feel that people see what they want to see, or what they have been taught to see.
It is not tough to explain the difference in skin colors. It is true that statistically speaking, north Indians are fairer than south Indians. But once again, the difference is not much. It looks so only because we Indians have made a fetish of fairness. If we see the complete spectrum of skin colors, from very fair nordics and russians to very dark central africans, then the `fair` northerners and `dark` southerners, both come somewhere in the middle. It all depends on how much melanin your skin creates, in order to beat the sunlight. As melanin creation is a genetic trait, it takes time to change, but it is reasonable to believe that in a few hundred generations, natural selection takes over and the skin color changes. Add to it the natural wandering tendencies of humand and you may be sure that the most you can think of is a broad statistical distribution of skin colors around the world; nothing like the cut and dried `racial groups` so popular with colonialists and racists.
For example, Italians and Spanish have a much darker color than Nordics or Scots, and they rarely have blue eyes, but no one thinks of them as another race. If you plot the distance between the poles and equator and make a corresponding change in the statistical average skin color for every mile, you will find that the north and south Indians have more or less the expected colors. You dont have to import them from anywhere to explain that.
The statistics are much poorer in the case of casts. My experience has been that almost all the castes in extreme north of India and in Pakistan are fair, and again my experience has been that most of south Indian upper castes are dark too. I come from a Brahmin family of UP/Bihar and my relatives have skin colors ranging from very dark to very fair. The other people of my ancestral village also have more or less the same color. The only difference is the people who work in fields in sun, they are invariable very dark.
Basically I feel that people see what they want to see, or what they have been taught to see.
#35 Posted by macgupta on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
In reply to Satyavadi : the changes that grandchildren of Holocaust survivors underwent is not genetic. It is a purely environmental effect, and presumably will fade away with the passing of generations. The point was to illustrate that while genetics is all about inheritance, inheritance is not all about genetics.
Steve Jones is a currently active scientist, and his book cautions that the field is advancing so fast that current findings may be soon out of date.
Regarding skin color, if I remember correctly, the genetics shows that one gene turns on melanin production, a second gene inhibits it, a third gene inhibits the effects of the second gene, and so on. If you ask how such a mechanism evolved, the answer seems to be that skin pigmentation turned off and on several times during human evolution.
-arun gupta
#34 Posted by jawahara on August 16, 2000 11:07:57 am
Murad, what an ambitious undertaking. I am still making my way through your article. Just wanted to tell you it is really interesting though. *goes back to reading *
#33 Posted by Urstruly on August 16, 2000 10:03:37 am
RE: SudheerB
Mr. Sudheer I checked your site but I couldnt get past your definition of word OM. After reading your definition several times I didnt understand what were you trying to say?
Mr. Sudheer I checked your site but I couldnt get past your definition of word OM. After reading your definition several times I didnt understand what were you trying to say?
#32 Posted by sudheerbirodkar on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
Dear Reader,
Here is an extract from a site where many of the questions asked by Mr. Murad Ali Baig have been answered:
http://hindutwa.com
HINDU HISTORY *
- A Search for Our Present in History
______________________
by Sudheer Birodkar
______________________________________________
This site has been selected by Encyclopedia Britannica ``as one of the best on the Internet, when reviewed for quality,
accuracy of content, presentation and usability``.
________________________________________________
The intriguing title of this book represents a novel approach to the study of present society looked upon as a result of history.
This approach `stands on its head` the conventional approach to the study of history which begins with the dim past and comes to the present
as a conclusion. Our approach starts with social institutions and practices of the contemporary age and traces their origin and development
to the historic past. With this approach the reader does not feel lost on the opening page of a history book. He is not confronted with a
society in which lived his ancestors two or three thousand years ago. He begins with the society surrounding him, which is of his immediate
concern. This method of interpreting the present and past should establish an intimate rapport between a citizen of today and the heritage
bequeathed to him by earlier generations. In our lifestyle, customs, traditions, beliefs; our history is reflected but it is normally beyond our
perception. It would be a fascinating and enlightening experience to trace the origins of things we see and do today in the bygone ages.
As students of Indian history and Indian Culture, can we answer questions like:
1) What did ancient Indians contribute to modern global civilization?
2) Is it true that zero originated as a philosophical concept in ancient India?
3) Did ancient Indians discover the heliocentric theory of gravitation nearly three thousand years before Copernicus and Galileo ?
4) Is it true that Ancient Indians invented the decimal numerals?
5) In the field of medicine did they develop the herbal system of medication?
6) Did they also evolve the system of of physio-theraphy ?
7) Do we know that in the field of production they are credited with the manufacture of crystal sugar and the extraction of sandalwood oil.
They also have to their credit the discovery and application of lac and camphor. According to the Oxford Dictionary, the English words for
these products are derived from Sanskrit - the language of ancient India.
8) Do we know that Ancient Indians also excelled in the fine-arts like Music, Dance, Painting, Dramatics and literature.
9) Do we know how Ancient Indians dressed. What did they wear?
10)What sort of Jewellery, cosmetics, did they use?
11)What kind of food did they eat?
12)How did they get educated? What kind of schools existed in ancient India ?
13)What did they worship? What kind of Religious beliefs did they have?
14)What did they do for fun? What games did they play?
15)How were ancient Indians governed?
16)What kind of pets did they have?
17) What were the abstracts and unusuals, which caught the interest of ancient Indians?
18) What was the Caste System of ancient Indians like?
19) Why have Indians always attached more importance to Non-violence (Ahimsa) than any other people?
20) How did vegetarianism become nearly an all pervading attitude in India from ancient times?
21) How is it that the cow (Gomata) and bull (Nandi) have come to acquire an exalted place in our religious pantheon?
22) How was the practice of charity (Dana) elevated to the status of a religious offering?
23) Why do we propitiate the elementals, especially fire ( in Yagna ) to usher in prosperity?
24) How did our insistence on performing events such as marriage, thread ceremony, opening ceremony, etc., at a certain auspicious time
(Muhurta) come into being?
25) How did the practice of observing fast (Upavasa) originate and what could be the motive behind fasting and other practices like walking
over hot coals, puncturing parts of one`s body or tonsuring one`s head?
26) What purpose did the ideas like Moksha and Nirvana (release from the cycle of re-birth) serve in Indian society and how did they come
into being?
27) What is the forgotten meaning behind our religious symbols like Swastika and Omkar?
28) What does the vermilion mark that we traditionally apply on our forehead (Tilaka) and our method of greeting each other with folded
hands (Namaskara) signify?
29) How did we come to look upon the saffron colour as sacred?
30) What do we know about the social origins of festivals like Navaratri, Diwali or Holi, that we celebrate with faith and fervour?
31) Why had secularism, commonly understood as religious tolerance (Sarva dharma samabhava) normally been part of Indian polity in
ancient times as in post-independence India?
32) Why do we attach overwhelming importance to ideas like fate (Daiva) and re-birth (Punarjanma)?
33) Why do we explain away disqualifications arising out of birth in a particular caste and other misfortunes with the doctrine of deeds in
past life (Karma)?
34) Why do we frown upon a person who marries outside his caste?
35) How did this endogamy (Sajatiya Vivaha) originate?
36) Why has occupational stratification crystallized with birth in a particular caste only in Indian Society?
37) How did one section of Indian society acquire the hereditary status of noble born (Dvija) and another as low born (Shudra)?
38) Why do some of us still consider the mere touch of members of some castes as polluting?
39) How did our attitudes of untouchability and unapproachability originate?
40) Why did we follow, till recently, practices like dowry (Daheja), Widow burning (Sati) and child marriage (Bal-Vivaha)?
41) What reason lies behind our concept of Satyuga (age of righteousness) which we believe existed in some time past and will return at the
end of the existing dark age (Kaliyuga)?
The list could be endless. The author has attempted to present facts and hypotheses about these various issues by beginning from the present
period and tracing into the past, the evolution of these social attitudes which today continue to be a part of an average Indian`s temperament.
Awareness of the origins of our social attitudes also acquires added importance as compared to issues of the contemporary age like
inflation, unemployment, corruption, the global arms race, etc. This is so because, contemporary issues are always in focus. The majority of
us are quite familiar with them as these issues are products of our age and the media keeps us well informed about-developments taking
place. Added to this, these issues are not bound up with religion, tradition or culture and hence are always open to public debate.
On the contrary much is unknown to us about our attitudes that arise from socio-religious traditions inherited from the past. Their having
originated in the hazy past alongwith the sanctity that is attached to most of them, results in our being ignorant of the real meaning behind
attitudes that contribute significantly to the shaping of our temperament.
ORIGIN OF THE CAT-ASTROPHE
An anecdote would illustrate the birth of a belief from a practice that began in a simple utilitarian manner.
This is the story of a pious God-fearing king from ancient India. To earn the praise of the lords of Heaven this king annually organised mass
feeding of Sadhus, Sanyasis (hermits) and Brahmins (priests). Countless number of learned Brahmins, Sadhus and Sanyasis used to
converge on his palace to partake in the gastronomical delights and bestow their blessings on the generous king.
On one such occasion it so happened that when the holy assemblage was being served Kheer (the Indian porridge) one of the royal pet cats
ran into the unfortunate steward who tripped and measured his length on the floor, spilling the bubbling stew on their holiness`.
The helpless steward was at the receiving end of their curses, but the enlightened king pacified them and after performing ablutions on them
to wash off the offending stains, he decreed that henceforth before the commencement of the great feast all cats in the palace ground should
be herded together and tied to a Stake, to prevent any such untoward incident in future.
The mass feeding continued undisturbed year after year and so did the practice of tying up to a stake, the feline members of the royal habitat
who came to be looked upon as portending misfortune. With the passing of years the old king was no more, but his son was no less pious
than him and so also was the grandson. Generation after generation scrupulously adhered to this practice of tying up the feline population
followed by the grand feast. No feast could begin unless tying up `ceremony` had been duly completed. The two practices came to be
looked upon as essential for earning the praise of the lords of Heaven.
Then one year came a severe famine. Rivers went dry, fields were barren and the kingdom`s people started migrating to better places. Came
the day for the annual event but there were hardly any Brahmins left to do justice to the meagre rations that remained in the royal larder.
After consulting his Chaplain the reigning king decided to temporarily suspend the second practice of hosting the grand luncheon. But as
advised by the learned chaplain, the king decided to solemnly honour the first practice of tying up a few feline `beasts of doom` and earn
whatever praise the lords of heaven could bestow. But there were no cats to be found in the famine-struck kingdom. So the King ordered
that a few cats be obtained from the neighbouring kingdom for the tieing-up ceremony to be duly performed on the auspicious day!
It was a bad time for the country and the famine continued for many consecutive years during which period, the Reigning king passed away
and was succeded by his youthful son. The youthful King also scrupulously adhered to the practice of annually tying up all cats to earn the
lord`s praise, as he had seen his father perform it. The country finally recovered from the dry spell and happier days were back. With
prosperity having returned, the old generation advisers recalled the practice of giving the annual feast and the king wanted to re-institute that
practice after seeking the royal chaplain`s blessings. But the royal chaplain had seen how his power over the king had increased in absence
of other Brahmins who would otherwise hover around the king.
Keeping this in mind, the wily chaplain advised the king against re-instituting the mass feeding because, he said, the terrible famine was a
result of divine wrath on the practice of feeding idle members of society which had been observed since countless generations.
The chaplain convinced the king by telling him that the country obtained deliverance from the divine wrath only because the Gods saw that
this practice had been done away with for the last few years. The chaplain argued that it was enough to continue the annual event of tying up
the inauspicious feline harbingers of catastrophes and earning the praise of the lords of heaven.
Thus convinced, the king ordained that henceforth in his kingdom all feline creatures were to be herded together and tied up on the day the
grand feast used to be observed. This was to be the sacred duty of every citizen, as the future of the kingdom depended on the lord`s
blessings which could not be obtained if the `holy` practice of tying up all cats was not followed. Non-observance of the practice was made
a punishable offence. From that year onwards, the grand feast was forgotten but the ceremony of tying cats took root.
And ages later neither the king remained nor his kingdom, but this `holy` ritual that defied rationale built up the belief of cats being the vehicles
of ill omen. A belief which has withstood the test of time.
A reading of the Panchantantra, Hitopadesha, Katha-Sarit-Sagara and the Jatakas, our national collections of similar anecdotes would bring
out many instances of how most of our rituals and beliefs originated from simple worldly actions of our forebears.
Indian history is replete with such beliefs end rituals which had a sound reason for coming into being but later they were continued to be
observed despite the fact that the reason did not hold true any more. Our daily life also abounds with innumerable rituals the meaning of
which is lost in history. We follow them out of reverence. But can reverence help us in understanding the roots of our culture, or for that do
we need an attitude of inquiry ?
An inquisitive and fertile mind can pose incisive questions and strive for convincing answers. In this book; HINDU HISTORY - A Search
for Our Present in History, a modest attempt has been made to accomplish this.
The language used in this book is a simple one, as the author hopes to reach to a wide readership. No specialised knowledge is called for to
understand what is being told. And as the social attitudes and customs which are being discussed form part of our present-day lives, no
lengthy introduction is necessary . All that is hoped from the reader is a dispassionate approach in understanding the process of evolution of
attitudes, traditions and beliefs which have been handed down to us by our forebears. For this it would do well to bear in mind our
sagacious adage:
Asatoma Sad Gamaya
Tamasoma Jyotir Gamaya
( Lead me from falsehoods to truth
and from ignorance to enlightenment )
__________
*Note on the terms `Indian` and `Hindu`
The terms `Hindu` and `Indian` are synonymous. This is so as the word Hindu is a corruption of the word Sindhu (river) by the Persians.
They converted the letter `S` to `H` as the letter `S` was missing in the ancient Persian script. The Persians called the Sindhu as Hindu and all
those living beyond the river as `Hindus`. When the Greeks under Alekshendra (Alexander), invaded north-western India, they further
corrupted the Persian term `Hindu` to `Indus` which was further corrupted by the Romans to give us the present English term `Indian`. The
Chinese also corrupted the Persian term to derived their terms `Indu` and `Hsin Tu` for Indians. Thus the terms Hindu and Indian have a
common origin and hence philologically are synonymous.
Sudheer Birodkar
sudheerbirodkar@yahoo.com
Here is an extract from a site where many of the questions asked by Mr. Murad Ali Baig have been answered:
http://hindutwa.com
HINDU HISTORY *
- A Search for Our Present in History
______________________
by Sudheer Birodkar
______________________________________________
This site has been selected by Encyclopedia Britannica ``as one of the best on the Internet, when reviewed for quality,
accuracy of content, presentation and usability``.
________________________________________________
The intriguing title of this book represents a novel approach to the study of present society looked upon as a result of history.
This approach `stands on its head` the conventional approach to the study of history which begins with the dim past and comes to the present
as a conclusion. Our approach starts with social institutions and practices of the contemporary age and traces their origin and development
to the historic past. With this approach the reader does not feel lost on the opening page of a history book. He is not confronted with a
society in which lived his ancestors two or three thousand years ago. He begins with the society surrounding him, which is of his immediate
concern. This method of interpreting the present and past should establish an intimate rapport between a citizen of today and the heritage
bequeathed to him by earlier generations. In our lifestyle, customs, traditions, beliefs; our history is reflected but it is normally beyond our
perception. It would be a fascinating and enlightening experience to trace the origins of things we see and do today in the bygone ages.
As students of Indian history and Indian Culture, can we answer questions like:
1) What did ancient Indians contribute to modern global civilization?
2) Is it true that zero originated as a philosophical concept in ancient India?
3) Did ancient Indians discover the heliocentric theory of gravitation nearly three thousand years before Copernicus and Galileo ?
4) Is it true that Ancient Indians invented the decimal numerals?
5) In the field of medicine did they develop the herbal system of medication?
6) Did they also evolve the system of of physio-theraphy ?
7) Do we know that in the field of production they are credited with the manufacture of crystal sugar and the extraction of sandalwood oil.
They also have to their credit the discovery and application of lac and camphor. According to the Oxford Dictionary, the English words for
these products are derived from Sanskrit - the language of ancient India.
8) Do we know that Ancient Indians also excelled in the fine-arts like Music, Dance, Painting, Dramatics and literature.
9) Do we know how Ancient Indians dressed. What did they wear?
10)What sort of Jewellery, cosmetics, did they use?
11)What kind of food did they eat?
12)How did they get educated? What kind of schools existed in ancient India ?
13)What did they worship? What kind of Religious beliefs did they have?
14)What did they do for fun? What games did they play?
15)How were ancient Indians governed?
16)What kind of pets did they have?
17) What were the abstracts and unusuals, which caught the interest of ancient Indians?
18) What was the Caste System of ancient Indians like?
19) Why have Indians always attached more importance to Non-violence (Ahimsa) than any other people?
20) How did vegetarianism become nearly an all pervading attitude in India from ancient times?
21) How is it that the cow (Gomata) and bull (Nandi) have come to acquire an exalted place in our religious pantheon?
22) How was the practice of charity (Dana) elevated to the status of a religious offering?
23) Why do we propitiate the elementals, especially fire ( in Yagna ) to usher in prosperity?
24) How did our insistence on performing events such as marriage, thread ceremony, opening ceremony, etc., at a certain auspicious time
(Muhurta) come into being?
25) How did the practice of observing fast (Upavasa) originate and what could be the motive behind fasting and other practices like walking
over hot coals, puncturing parts of one`s body or tonsuring one`s head?
26) What purpose did the ideas like Moksha and Nirvana (release from the cycle of re-birth) serve in Indian society and how did they come
into being?
27) What is the forgotten meaning behind our religious symbols like Swastika and Omkar?
28) What does the vermilion mark that we traditionally apply on our forehead (Tilaka) and our method of greeting each other with folded
hands (Namaskara) signify?
29) How did we come to look upon the saffron colour as sacred?
30) What do we know about the social origins of festivals like Navaratri, Diwali or Holi, that we celebrate with faith and fervour?
31) Why had secularism, commonly understood as religious tolerance (Sarva dharma samabhava) normally been part of Indian polity in
ancient times as in post-independence India?
32) Why do we attach overwhelming importance to ideas like fate (Daiva) and re-birth (Punarjanma)?
33) Why do we explain away disqualifications arising out of birth in a particular caste and other misfortunes with the doctrine of deeds in
past life (Karma)?
34) Why do we frown upon a person who marries outside his caste?
35) How did this endogamy (Sajatiya Vivaha) originate?
36) Why has occupational stratification crystallized with birth in a particular caste only in Indian Society?
37) How did one section of Indian society acquire the hereditary status of noble born (Dvija) and another as low born (Shudra)?
38) Why do some of us still consider the mere touch of members of some castes as polluting?
39) How did our attitudes of untouchability and unapproachability originate?
40) Why did we follow, till recently, practices like dowry (Daheja), Widow burning (Sati) and child marriage (Bal-Vivaha)?
41) What reason lies behind our concept of Satyuga (age of righteousness) which we believe existed in some time past and will return at the
end of the existing dark age (Kaliyuga)?
The list could be endless. The author has attempted to present facts and hypotheses about these various issues by beginning from the present
period and tracing into the past, the evolution of these social attitudes which today continue to be a part of an average Indian`s temperament.
Awareness of the origins of our social attitudes also acquires added importance as compared to issues of the contemporary age like
inflation, unemployment, corruption, the global arms race, etc. This is so because, contemporary issues are always in focus. The majority of
us are quite familiar with them as these issues are products of our age and the media keeps us well informed about-developments taking
place. Added to this, these issues are not bound up with religion, tradition or culture and hence are always open to public debate.
On the contrary much is unknown to us about our attitudes that arise from socio-religious traditions inherited from the past. Their having
originated in the hazy past alongwith the sanctity that is attached to most of them, results in our being ignorant of the real meaning behind
attitudes that contribute significantly to the shaping of our temperament.
ORIGIN OF THE CAT-ASTROPHE
An anecdote would illustrate the birth of a belief from a practice that began in a simple utilitarian manner.
This is the story of a pious God-fearing king from ancient India. To earn the praise of the lords of Heaven this king annually organised mass
feeding of Sadhus, Sanyasis (hermits) and Brahmins (priests). Countless number of learned Brahmins, Sadhus and Sanyasis used to
converge on his palace to partake in the gastronomical delights and bestow their blessings on the generous king.
On one such occasion it so happened that when the holy assemblage was being served Kheer (the Indian porridge) one of the royal pet cats
ran into the unfortunate steward who tripped and measured his length on the floor, spilling the bubbling stew on their holiness`.
The helpless steward was at the receiving end of their curses, but the enlightened king pacified them and after performing ablutions on them
to wash off the offending stains, he decreed that henceforth before the commencement of the great feast all cats in the palace ground should
be herded together and tied to a Stake, to prevent any such untoward incident in future.
The mass feeding continued undisturbed year after year and so did the practice of tying up to a stake, the feline members of the royal habitat
who came to be looked upon as portending misfortune. With the passing of years the old king was no more, but his son was no less pious
than him and so also was the grandson. Generation after generation scrupulously adhered to this practice of tying up the feline population
followed by the grand feast. No feast could begin unless tying up `ceremony` had been duly completed. The two practices came to be
looked upon as essential for earning the praise of the lords of Heaven.
Then one year came a severe famine. Rivers went dry, fields were barren and the kingdom`s people started migrating to better places. Came
the day for the annual event but there were hardly any Brahmins left to do justice to the meagre rations that remained in the royal larder.
After consulting his Chaplain the reigning king decided to temporarily suspend the second practice of hosting the grand luncheon. But as
advised by the learned chaplain, the king decided to solemnly honour the first practice of tying up a few feline `beasts of doom` and earn
whatever praise the lords of heaven could bestow. But there were no cats to be found in the famine-struck kingdom. So the King ordered
that a few cats be obtained from the neighbouring kingdom for the tieing-up ceremony to be duly performed on the auspicious day!
It was a bad time for the country and the famine continued for many consecutive years during which period, the Reigning king passed away
and was succeded by his youthful son. The youthful King also scrupulously adhered to the practice of annually tying up all cats to earn the
lord`s praise, as he had seen his father perform it. The country finally recovered from the dry spell and happier days were back. With
prosperity having returned, the old generation advisers recalled the practice of giving the annual feast and the king wanted to re-institute that
practice after seeking the royal chaplain`s blessings. But the royal chaplain had seen how his power over the king had increased in absence
of other Brahmins who would otherwise hover around the king.
Keeping this in mind, the wily chaplain advised the king against re-instituting the mass feeding because, he said, the terrible famine was a
result of divine wrath on the practice of feeding idle members of society which had been observed since countless generations.
The chaplain convinced the king by telling him that the country obtained deliverance from the divine wrath only because the Gods saw that
this practice had been done away with for the last few years. The chaplain argued that it was enough to continue the annual event of tying up
the inauspicious feline harbingers of catastrophes and earning the praise of the lords of heaven.
Thus convinced, the king ordained that henceforth in his kingdom all feline creatures were to be herded together and tied up on the day the
grand feast used to be observed. This was to be the sacred duty of every citizen, as the future of the kingdom depended on the lord`s
blessings which could not be obtained if the `holy` practice of tying up all cats was not followed. Non-observance of the practice was made
a punishable offence. From that year onwards, the grand feast was forgotten but the ceremony of tying cats took root.
And ages later neither the king remained nor his kingdom, but this `holy` ritual that defied rationale built up the belief of cats being the vehicles
of ill omen. A belief which has withstood the test of time.
A reading of the Panchantantra, Hitopadesha, Katha-Sarit-Sagara and the Jatakas, our national collections of similar anecdotes would bring
out many instances of how most of our rituals and beliefs originated from simple worldly actions of our forebears.
Indian history is replete with such beliefs end rituals which had a sound reason for coming into being but later they were continued to be
observed despite the fact that the reason did not hold true any more. Our daily life also abounds with innumerable rituals the meaning of
which is lost in history. We follow them out of reverence. But can reverence help us in understanding the roots of our culture, or for that do
we need an attitude of inquiry ?
An inquisitive and fertile mind can pose incisive questions and strive for convincing answers. In this book; HINDU HISTORY - A Search
for Our Present in History, a modest attempt has been made to accomplish this.
The language used in this book is a simple one, as the author hopes to reach to a wide readership. No specialised knowledge is called for to
understand what is being told. And as the social attitudes and customs which are being discussed form part of our present-day lives, no
lengthy introduction is necessary . All that is hoped from the reader is a dispassionate approach in understanding the process of evolution of
attitudes, traditions and beliefs which have been handed down to us by our forebears. For this it would do well to bear in mind our
sagacious adage:
Asatoma Sad Gamaya
Tamasoma Jyotir Gamaya
( Lead me from falsehoods to truth
and from ignorance to enlightenment )
__________
*Note on the terms `Indian` and `Hindu`
The terms `Hindu` and `Indian` are synonymous. This is so as the word Hindu is a corruption of the word Sindhu (river) by the Persians.
They converted the letter `S` to `H` as the letter `S` was missing in the ancient Persian script. The Persians called the Sindhu as Hindu and all
those living beyond the river as `Hindus`. When the Greeks under Alekshendra (Alexander), invaded north-western India, they further
corrupted the Persian term `Hindu` to `Indus` which was further corrupted by the Romans to give us the present English term `Indian`. The
Chinese also corrupted the Persian term to derived their terms `Indu` and `Hsin Tu` for Indians. Thus the terms Hindu and Indian have a
common origin and hence philologically are synonymous.
Sudheer Birodkar
sudheerbirodkar@yahoo.com
#31 Posted by sudheerbirodkar on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
Many of these questions have been answered at the site:
http://hindutwa.com
http://hindutwa.com
#30 Posted by satyavadi on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
friend #18
``Average doesn`t mean that every member of set has to be exactly average``
I never implied that. Wonder why you got that impression.
I raised my querries, since in your previous post, you seemed to say, that it was only the occupations that people were involved in that caused the difference. Though now you acknowledge intermingling of different races. I guess, my question is, IS the complexion difference mostly due to occupations and conseqeunt sun-exposure over hundreds of years OR is it because of different blood and genes? I am not arguing for any of the above, just trying to know your opinion.
friend #19:
this post was particularly interesting. It does suggest that the north indians and south indians or aryans and dravidians are not as distinct as they are made to be, by the AIT.
What is the pre-dominant opinion among scholars of South-Asian anthropology? Is AIT, still the pre-dominant theory? Atleast the textbooks before 10 years taught it as gospel truth. Dont know if they have covered alternate theories too, in the modified syllabi.
macgupta #21:
Your post did provide some interesting insights. Was really surprised by that claim about the grandchildren of holocaust survivors. I always thought genetic alterations (mutations) were very slow, and took hundreds if not thousands of years (in the true Darwinian fashion) to produce any singificant changes in any speices.
I am not a genetics or anthropology buff and I dont know the credentials of this Mr. Jones. But, usually there are always conflicting opinions among scholars, and the pre-dominant one is the accepted ``best plausible truth`` for that time period. Does Jones` fall in that category?
Urstruly:
#26:
``it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.``
A lot of times, I feel the same way. But then, more than hundred an fifty years after Darwin propounded that theory, there is still no plausible, respectably accepted alternative (or is there?). So, seems like that theory is not entirely without its merits.
``Average doesn`t mean that every member of set has to be exactly average``
I never implied that. Wonder why you got that impression.
I raised my querries, since in your previous post, you seemed to say, that it was only the occupations that people were involved in that caused the difference. Though now you acknowledge intermingling of different races. I guess, my question is, IS the complexion difference mostly due to occupations and conseqeunt sun-exposure over hundreds of years OR is it because of different blood and genes? I am not arguing for any of the above, just trying to know your opinion.
friend #19:
this post was particularly interesting. It does suggest that the north indians and south indians or aryans and dravidians are not as distinct as they are made to be, by the AIT.
What is the pre-dominant opinion among scholars of South-Asian anthropology? Is AIT, still the pre-dominant theory? Atleast the textbooks before 10 years taught it as gospel truth. Dont know if they have covered alternate theories too, in the modified syllabi.
macgupta #21:
Your post did provide some interesting insights. Was really surprised by that claim about the grandchildren of holocaust survivors. I always thought genetic alterations (mutations) were very slow, and took hundreds if not thousands of years (in the true Darwinian fashion) to produce any singificant changes in any speices.
I am not a genetics or anthropology buff and I dont know the credentials of this Mr. Jones. But, usually there are always conflicting opinions among scholars, and the pre-dominant one is the accepted ``best plausible truth`` for that time period. Does Jones` fall in that category?
Urstruly:
#26:
``it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.``
A lot of times, I feel the same way. But then, more than hundred an fifty years after Darwin propounded that theory, there is still no plausible, respectably accepted alternative (or is there?). So, seems like that theory is not entirely without its merits.
#29 Posted by friend on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
Murad,
In your quest of unvarnishing India, please don`t forget to provide your source of Information about ``recent convert to Hinduism`` Mihirakula.
Please be specific and don`t list the catalog of Delhi Public Library.
Regards
In your quest of unvarnishing India, please don`t forget to provide your source of Information about ``recent convert to Hinduism`` Mihirakula.
Please be specific and don`t list the catalog of Delhi Public Library.
Regards
#27 Posted by sadna on August 15, 2000 5:12:16 pm
An article appeared in the NYTimes(now in archives)
The Human Family Tree: 10 Adams and 18 Eves
by Nicholas Wade
May 2 2000
I`m not sure it was in the same article, but it was mentioned that groups of people from disparate geographical locations could now investigate whether they were indeed `related` or common descendents of one of these `few` ancestors.
In one interesting example, genetic information was extracted from a 7000-9000 year-old human body which had been found in England, and the locals were tested for genetic linkages. Believe it or not, one local man was found who was related to that many-thousand-year-old ancestor.
Sadhana
#26 Posted by Urstruly on August 15, 2000 4:41:12 pm
RE: Friend #20
That leaves us with more questions than answers. I think main culprit is our undue reliance on Darwin`s Theories of Evolution (and Natural Selection); we are being too un-scientific by not exploring other options. In my opinion it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.
That leaves us with more questions than answers. I think main culprit is our undue reliance on Darwin`s Theories of Evolution (and Natural Selection); we are being too un-scientific by not exploring other options. In my opinion it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.
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