India Unvarnished

Murad Ali Baig #

Your observation on Indian open society and Pakistan closed society may be right.

But can you consider the little effect of education on us educated jahils Pakiustanis.

And large effect of education on BROAD minded Indians.

At least give credit to Pakistanis that they are sincere in whatever they belief and education has not produced bigotry to a large extent.

wassalam!

I quote :

``Two hundred years later, the celebrated Al-Bukhari, a devout Muslim scholar, travelled the Muslim world to write most of the Hadith or the sayings and examples from the prophet`s life, that now forms a part of the Koran. ``(Q56)



Never before have I seen such a blatant lie about islam being uttered by a person donning a muslim name. It is preposterous to label hadith as part of the Koran. Hadith is distinct from the koran as they were the words or actions of the prophet, and the Koran is purely the words of divine reveletion. Perhaps this writer, having done so much research should have consulted a 10 year old muslim, and easily avoided making this mis statement.

ALso , i quote :

``There had been several versions of the utterances of the prophet during the 23 years after he received the revelation from Gabriel.``(Q56)

Please, for God`s sake, get a life! several different versions of utterances of the prophet. Again, the writer is deliberately trying to blurr the distinction between hadith, and quran. THERE WERE NO DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE QURAN, as the prophet himself had supervised the compilations, but making his companions MEMORIZE, WORD for WORD, LETTER FOR LETTER, the entire quran. In the time of Usman, (caliph), he merely had the entire quran written in one book form.

Zaid bin Harith compiled Hadith, NOT the quran. THe process described in the writer`s ill informed writing was pertaining to hadith. There has been no doctoring of the quran, being a fundamental beleif of islam, that Quran shall never be doctored.

I advise Chowk.com to PLEASE approach knowledgable writers to write on issues of religion... not quasi-intelligent species like the writer here

The author (under the guidance of the Pakistan authorities) have concocted a 38 page misinterpretation of India. The two unnecessary references of Pakistan is intentional. T

he article is just another one of the Pakistan Moral boosters. Pakistan doesn`t have a history - all the history it made in the past fifty years were regarding to two lost wars and terrorism.

The article contains only misinterpreted comments - no actual research findings, details a list of rumours than actual facts, a listing of sources wherefrom nothing was taken - it all came from his vivid imagination.

The author speaks about Aurangzeb and his taxes - he ignores the valour of the Maratha against Aurangzeb.

To quote the author

``The only Krishna in the Rigveda was no god but the leader of the Rakshashas and the armies of dark Dasyus who Indra slew and skinned.``

First of all no one ever claimed the mention Krishna in the Rig Veda. Krishna was never supposed to have an army of dark Dasyus - he had an army of Yadavas(they weren`t dark in any respect). The author is a fool to the highest extent - he doesn`t understand the chronological order of the Rig veda(first) and then the Mahabharata.

A rational human can easily see through the deliberate attempt of the author to tarnish Krishna.

This is exemplary enough to underline the fact that the author is a `MUDHA` who has satisfied the dumb Pakis and thus has earned the pathos of the Indian people.

Pity the Pakis cannot hold back their jealousy for India. Failed were the attempts of 2 wars, failed were the decades of terrorism, now they have supposedly employed a mouthpiece(supposed to be an Indian) who thinks can put a unemotional argument - but instead it turns out to be emotional one for him - He and his Paki Counterparts sit crying gaping onwards the barbaric land they call PAKISTAN

ONE OF THOSE FUTILE PAKISTANI ATTEMPTS TO TARNISH THE IMAGE OF INDIA

The author has made a major blunder.(He even looks like a seasoned fool)

In his futile attempt of tarnishing India`s image he has forgotten some key points.

1.Until recently India consisted of pakistan,afghanisthan, the South-east Asia and varous parts of asia.

2.Further back in history there are evidences that India or Bharat was spread out over all the continents. Nearly the entire globe was Bharat.

3.The Vedic culture( that has been ridiculed here) had a Global existence.

4. Everyone by default was a Santana Dharmic.

5. Last but not the least none of his answers to the 65 odd questions are conclusive or have valid arguments leave alone any evidences to support it. Infact most of them don`t address the question itself but in turn just beats around the bush. The intention of the author seems not to convince the readers but to cheat them by confusing them.

Lastly, the writeup is just a piece of CRAP.

I doubt the sanity of the person who have/or would trust in what the author has said.

This article makes many false claims with the futile intention of tarnishing India`s image.

Besides providing a long list of books(most of the books are outdated) in the bibliography section - the article doesn`t contain any information from these books.

There are no evidences or proofs provided by the author.

Increasing number of scientists are accepting Vedic civilization as the oldest. The missing chapters of Egyptian civilization and the World History are now available.

In order that one gets one`s facts right read the following books that provide a undeniable list of facts with evidences. Decide for yourself.

Proof of Vedic Culture`s Global Existence

by Stephen Knapp

Paperback - 353 pages (October 2000)

World Relief Network; ISBN: 0961741066

The Search of the Cradle of Civilization: New Light on Ancient India

by Georg Feuerstein, Subhash Kak (Contributor), David Frawley (Contributor)

Hardcover (October 1995)

Unknown; ISBN: 0835607208 ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.21 x 9.34 x 6.

India Once Ruled the Americas

by Gene D. Matlock

Paperback - 200 pages (December 2000)

Writer`s Showcase Press; ISBN: 0595134688 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.54 x 8.96 x 5.98

The Celestial Key to the Vedas: Discovering the Origins of the World`s Oldest Civilization

by B. G. Sidharth

Paperback - 192 pages (October 1999)

Inner Traditions Intl Ltd; ISBN: 0892817534 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.54 x 9.02 x 5.93

Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India and Atlantis (Lost Science Series)

by David Hatcher Childress, Ivan T. Sanderson (Introduction)

Paperback (January 1992)

Adventures Unlimited Pr; ISBN: 0932813127 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.72 x 9.01 x 6.04

Vedic ``Aryans`` and the Origins of Civilization: A Literary and Scientific Perspective

by Navaratna S. Rajaram, David Frawley

Paperback (August 15, 1995)

World Heritage Press; ISBN: 1896064000

Ancient Cities of the Indus Valley Civilization

by Jonathan Mark Kenoyer

Paperback - 264 pages (December 1998)

Oxford Univ Press; ISBN: 0195779401 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.99 x 11.08 x 9.12

Vedic Physics

by Raja Ram Mohan, Ph.D. Roy, Raja Mohan, Ph.D. Roy, Subhash Kak, Raja Ram Mohan Roy

Paperback - 268 pages (March 5, 1999)

Golden Egg Publishing; ISBN: 0968412009 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.65 x 8.51 x 5.57

Chaotic Universe : From the Planck to the Hubble Scale (Contemporary Fundamental Physics)

Hardcover (May 2001)

Nova Science Publishers, Inc.; ISBN: 1560729775

Politics of History, Aryan Invasion Theory and the Subversion of Scholarship

by Navaratna S. Rajaram

Paperback - 244 pages 1 edition (March 1, 1995)

South Asia Books; ISBN: 818599028X

vedic Symbolism

by Sri Aurobindo, Sri M. P. Pandit (Compiler), M. P. Pandit (Compiler), Aurobindo Ghose

Paperback - 122 pages 1 edition (December 1998)

Lotus Press; ISBN: 0941524302 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.37 x 8.54 x 5.46

Yishvara 2000 : The Hindu Ancestor of Judaism Speaks to This Millennium

by Gene D. Matlock

Paperback - 208 pages (January 2001)

iUniverse.com; ISBN: 0595150128 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.55 x 9.02 x 5.98

Jesus and Moses Are Buried in India, Birthplace of Abraham and the Hebrews

by Gene D. Matlock

Paperback - 444 pages (November 2000)

iUniverse.com; ISBN: 0595127711 ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.15 x 9.04 x 6.07

Vedic Physics

by Raja Ram Mohan, Ph.D. Roy, Raja Mohan, Ph.D. Roy, Subhash Kak, Raja Ram Mohan Roy

Paperback - 268 pages (March 5, 1999)

Golden Egg Publishing; ISBN: 0968412009 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.65 x 8.51 x 5.57

The Vedic Prophecies: A New Look into the Future

by Stephen Knapp

Paperback - 240 pages (April 1, 1998)

World Relief Network; ISBN: 096174104X

Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy

by Richard L. Thompson

Paperback - 251 pages (November 1989)

Bhaktivedanta Book Trust; ISBN: 0892132698

In this case the books are written by scientists and indologists and not charlatans like Murad Ali Baig.

This is a test!!

Hello Mr.Murad,

you have done a wonderful job with this article, no doubt about it. but I strongly feel your predjuidice being a muslim towards hinduism and India. Let me clarify why? as per your theory, you claim Avesta being superior than vedas. Definately Zorasthrians and Hindus are two branches evolved from a common group but I am sure the philosophy behind hinduism is much superior to zorathrians since their philosophy didn`t survive that long. they were never able to convince other races to follow them or never produced any other superior faith. Finally they disappeared or userped by islam. THis always happens to a weak religion. contrary to that, Hinduism not only gave birth to other religions like budhism, Jainism, sikhism etc. It was able to flourish inspite of suffering for decades under islam. Arabs learned off and on, again and again and passed on the knowledge to westeners. Islam itself is a step child of Judaism and created to fill the vaccum left by Zorasthrian on the east and christianity on the west. Tell me what was left to these nomads of desert. So, Muhamed carefully drafted a copy of old testament with in the name of islam and started a rampage to convert all the kafirs as you may call under the name of god.

India over the centuries accomodated all sorts of people starting from aryans to parthians, schithians, bactrian,shakas,huns or mongols. All of them slowly got absorbed by indian society except Islam. only because they came with a religion that they wanted to enforce on the local people with much superior philosphy. another things is that indians were never interested in expanding their territory beyound pamirs as they they what lies beyond that. Also they had some soft corner that prevented them from routing their enemies otherwise prithviraj would have killed Gajni. All these kindness were carefully exploited by the invaders enable them to rule this country. being an indian you should have shown less prijuidice towards islam.

Thanks,

Jai Hind

I suggest that the author visit this great site on Hinduism and Indian Culture and history, before writing any `unemotional stuff.`

A Tribute to Hinduism.

http://www.atributetohinduism.com

The best answer to your article Murad is given in the following link. You amaze me with your ignorance! I hope this article will open your eyes to what is real out there.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ibn_al-rawandi/review.html

1. Was India one of the oldest civilisations?

``India`s civilisation was not as old as the civilisations of Egypt or Babylon that

had far more advanced urban habitations with sophisticated arts and culture by

3,100 BC.``

This assertion is just false!

Obiviously our friend has not kept abreast of the latest researches on the Indus Valley Civilization. The Aryan Invasion theory has been discredited. It was a fabrication of 19th century colonial historians. The recent literary and archaeological evidence does not support any invasion of the so called ``blond blue eyed Arayans.`` The Indus Valley civilization decline because of geological changes and mainly due the drying up of the Sarasvati river, a mighty river that flowed from the Himalayas into Ran of Kutch. There is a whole body of literature on this subject. For starters please consult:

Books:

Ancient Cities of the Indus Valley Civilization by J. M Kenoyer

Vedic ``Aryans`` and the Origins of Civilization: A Literary and

Scientific Perspective, Rajaram, Frawley

In Search of the Cradle of Civilization : New Light on Ancient India,

Feurestein, Kak, Frawley

Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture : In Quest of the Origins of

Vedic Culture, Edwin Bryant

Most of these new research findings are also freely available on the Internet

http://www.4essays.com/essays/ARYAN_IN.HTM

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/16_01.htm

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6015/frames.html

For a complete bibliography on this subject please visit

http://icg.harvard.edu/

Mr. Murad:

You must throw the yoke of islam off your shoulders. Arabs were the first victims of Islam. Then they forced in on to the Turks, Iranians and the South Asians. Forced proselytisation results in a complete loss of self esteem and alieniation from one`s own heritage and culture.

You must evaulate your religion in light of the following works:

By ``Ibn Warraq,`` A Pakistani writing under a pseudoname

``Why I am not a Muslim,``

Quest for historical Muhammad

The Origins of the Koran : Classic Essays on

Islam`s Holy Book

Please read by Bassam Tibi:

``he Challenge of Fundamentalism : Political

Islam and the New World Disorder (Comparative

Studies in Religion and Society, No 9)``

Arab Nationalism : Between Islam and the

Nation-State

Islam: The Arab Imperialist Movement, Anwar Shaikh

I have read a lot of auto reviews by Murad Baig and have found him to be very articulate and well informed. I was there fore shocked and pained by his analysis of India and the culture. That he is a Masters in History makes this analysis and probably his understanding very shallow. I guess he has let his religious views and sentiments overtake logic and knowledge that is required to make a impartial analysis of Indian culture. This looks more like an effort to tarnish our culture than an effort to put it in the right space. And starting his article by saying we as Indians do not appreciate anything negative being said about our culture itself indicates his real intentions

I hope that chowk will remove this offending and insensitive article from its site

Dear Mr Baig,

First of all let me thank you for putting so much of thoughts on Indian History and Hinduism.

When we started reading the article we thought it is some fundamentalist who trying to justify why

one religion is better than other. We were shocked to see a professional with work experience in large MNCs was the person behind this.

It is very easy and belive me exciting to run down anything in this world ,it maybe some religion,philosphy etc. Whatever you may be saying will certainly prove your worth in certain section of society but as an Indian it really is shocking that you are releasing such articles on

Websites not exactly in love with India.

This is the same India which gave you food ,shelter and education. If you are so sure

about your findings, you should immediately return your Masters Degree from Indian University and should be shameful of working in India with Indians.

We would have appreciated a balanced view from a professional of your stature.

You started with the Title : ``India Unvarnished`` appropriate title should have been`` Mr Baig Unvarnished``.

Jai Hind

Sidharth & Friends

Sulekha

Nothing new here. It`s just the same old ghisa-peeta record we have been hearing since Class V History.

It`s amusing how these leftist historians actually fall for their own spiel: I can`t believe ALL of them are misguided Hindu-haters, it`s got to be more than that. Why fall over backwards talking about Aryan invasions and barbaric Brahmin practices and subjugation of lower castes and disrespect for other religions, when EVERY religion is rooted in the same kind of hatred and animosity?

Sure, talk about it.... but why expect modern-day Indians to feel ashamed of their heritage? (the reference to ``Hindu fanatics`` and the BJP are totally unwarranted, if the piece is purely about history). I seriously believe the Americans and Britishers need be a lot more ``ashamed`` of their history: America actively followed a segregation policy till as recently as the 60s while Britain shamelessly subjugated and looted millions of people across the world under the pretence of being a proud seafaring nation. Obviously they have mended their ways and don`t feel the need to apologize for it. Neither do we. If I am proud of my heritage, it is with the sound knowledge that most discoveries: scientific, mathematical and philosophical originated in what we now call the Indian subcontinent before they were shamelessly plagiarised by people from the West who had better PR mechanisms than us in those days. It`s not that different from an Egyptian or a Greek feeling proud of his own culture.

Anyway, sorry for digressing. Next time, try something new....

India is a great country,before critisising India

think about treatment to Muslims of Indian orugen