Murad A Baig August 15, 2000
#17 Posted by macgupta on August 15, 2000 11:05:15 am
A couple of points out of the million that could be made.
The author, Mr. Murad Ali Baig, lists Allchin & Allchin, ``Origins of a Civilization`` as one of the references. Is he aware that the Allchins contradict him on a whole host of things, including India`s Paleolithic and Neolithic ages, the rise of urbanism, the dates for inhabitation and civilization of southern India, and so on ?
Next, about skin color, the effect of climate, etc., on the various ``races`` of mankind, here are quotes and paraphrases from a relatively modern book ``The Language of Genes`` , Steve Jones, who is the editor of the Cambridge Encyclopedia of Human Evolution and is a professor of genetics in London.
``Another beauty -- and an important weakness -- of the theory of evolution by natural selection is that with a little imagination it is possible to come up with an explanation of anything.``
``There are several theories as to why humans evolved light skins as they migrated to the dismal climates of the north. None is completely satisfactory....``
``[Skin] cancer has probably not produced the global trend in color. First, it is rare even in whites, with only about one case per ten thousand people per year. More important, skin cancer is mainly a disease of the old. This means that those who die from it have already passed on their genes, including those for the color of their skin.``
[ The Vitamin D deficiency disease rickets, its prevalence as evidenced by ancient graves, and the advantage of fair skin in synthesizing vitamin D as a factor is discussed. ]
``Why black skin is common in the tropics is less clear. [Excessive Vitamin D production and toxicity is ruled out.] The black skins of tropical peoples may help in coping with vitamin destruction [in sunlight]. Another possibility is that the dark pigment prevents ultraviolet from destroying antibodies in the blood as it circulates through the skin. Yet another is ...
...
As usual, it is easy to make up stories about how selection may have favored certain genes, but none can be taken very seriously without more experiments to see which might be true.``
``Other patterns might also be due to climate. The woolly hair of Africans is said to act as an evaporating surface for sweat to cool the head down. The long fine noses of peoples from the Middle East may help to moisten the desert air before it reaches the lungs and the narrow eyes of Chinese to protect against the icy winds of the Asian plains. All this is guesswork.``
* * * * *
Please, all, remember that the archaelogy of India and the evolution of mankind are two among many subjects in which the answers that are likely to stand the test of time are not yet in.
-arun gupta
#18 Posted by friend on August 15, 2000 11:05:15 am
satyavadi #14
Average doesn`t mean that every member of set has to be exactly average. There are variations in every group.
You have already answered part of your query when you say that color is also genetic. With a preference for white color, people tried to do be selective about choosing whiter mates. Naturally, groups who could do that more successfully were the one who occupied higher strata of society.
A reverse process also happened. People who were darker (or shell not having good looks) were pushed to lower jobs. (If is well known that even in todays interview process, a well looking person has advantage.)
``Hindu`` culture ocupied a very large area. Hence localised features and color pattern also developed and contributed to variety. This is not to say that migrations didn`t happen. Gandhar and Central Asia (Hunas, Kushans) were also inhabited by people who subscribed to basic principles of ``Hinduism``. These groups also intermingled.
Regards
Average doesn`t mean that every member of set has to be exactly average. There are variations in every group.
You have already answered part of your query when you say that color is also genetic. With a preference for white color, people tried to do be selective about choosing whiter mates. Naturally, groups who could do that more successfully were the one who occupied higher strata of society.
A reverse process also happened. People who were darker (or shell not having good looks) were pushed to lower jobs. (If is well known that even in todays interview process, a well looking person has advantage.)
``Hindu`` culture ocupied a very large area. Hence localised features and color pattern also developed and contributed to variety. This is not to say that migrations didn`t happen. Gandhar and Central Asia (Hunas, Kushans) were also inhabited by people who subscribed to basic principles of ``Hinduism``. These groups also intermingled.
Regards
#19 Posted by friend on August 15, 2000 11:54:13 am
``WHO WERE INDIA`S ORIGINAL PEOPLE?``
Would Mr Baig care to counter the following?
[ Following summary is taken from Dr Subhash Kak`s article at http://www.sulekha.com/cgi-bin/comments.cgi?art_url=skak_indology#10]
-----
I add new biological evidence that suggests that the Indian stock has lived in the peninsula for at least 50,000 years.
T. Kivisild et. al., Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages, Current Biology, Vol 9, No 22, pp 1331-134, 1999.
The summary is take verbatim from this paper:
``The first and the most profound layer of overlap between the
western-Eurasian and the Indian mtDNA lineage relates to haplotype U, a complex mtDNA lineage cluster with an estimated age of 51,000-67,000 years. We calculated the coalescence age essentially as described (ref 15,17) and estimate the split between the Indian and western-Eurasian U2 lineage as 53,000 +/- 4,000 years before present``.
``Typical western-Eurasian mtDNA lineage found in India belongs to haplogroups H,I,J, T,X and to subclass U1,U4, U5 and K haplogroup U. Frequencies of these lineages in Indian populations are more than an order of magnitude lower than in Europe:5.2% versus 70%. This finding might be explained by gene flow. Neverthless, we note that the frequency of these mtDNA haplotypes reveals neither a strong north-south, nor language-based gradient; they are found in both among Hindi speakers from Uttar Pradesh (6%) and Dravidians of Andhra pradesh (4%). Assuming that they are largely of western-Eurasian origin, we may ask when their spread started. We obtained divergence time of 9300 +/- 3000 years. This is an average over an unknown number of various founders and therefore, does not tell us whether there were one or many migration waves, or whether there was a continuous long-lasting gradual admixture. Their low frequency but still general spread all over India plus the estimated time scale, does not support a recent massive Indo-Aryan invasion, at least as far as maternally inherited genetic lineage are concerned. Furthermore, the spread of these western-Eurasian-specific mtDNA clusters also among Dravidic-speaking populations of India lends credence to the suggested linguistic connection between Elamite and Dravidian populations``.
``The supposed Aryan invasion of India 3000-4000 years before present therefore did not make a major splash in the Indian gene pool. This is especialy counter-indicated by the presence of equal, though very low, frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern india. Thus, the `Caucasoid` features of south Asians (Indians) may best be considered `pre-caucasoid` -that is, part of diverse north or north east western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago``.
----
Would Mr Baig care to counter the following?
[ Following summary is taken from Dr Subhash Kak`s article at http://www.sulekha.com/cgi-bin/comments.cgi?art_url=skak_indology#10]
-----
I add new biological evidence that suggests that the Indian stock has lived in the peninsula for at least 50,000 years.
T. Kivisild et. al., Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages, Current Biology, Vol 9, No 22, pp 1331-134, 1999.
The summary is take verbatim from this paper:
``The first and the most profound layer of overlap between the
western-Eurasian and the Indian mtDNA lineage relates to haplotype U, a complex mtDNA lineage cluster with an estimated age of 51,000-67,000 years. We calculated the coalescence age essentially as described (ref 15,17) and estimate the split between the Indian and western-Eurasian U2 lineage as 53,000 +/- 4,000 years before present``.
``Typical western-Eurasian mtDNA lineage found in India belongs to haplogroups H,I,J, T,X and to subclass U1,U4, U5 and K haplogroup U. Frequencies of these lineages in Indian populations are more than an order of magnitude lower than in Europe:5.2% versus 70%. This finding might be explained by gene flow. Neverthless, we note that the frequency of these mtDNA haplotypes reveals neither a strong north-south, nor language-based gradient; they are found in both among Hindi speakers from Uttar Pradesh (6%) and Dravidians of Andhra pradesh (4%). Assuming that they are largely of western-Eurasian origin, we may ask when their spread started. We obtained divergence time of 9300 +/- 3000 years. This is an average over an unknown number of various founders and therefore, does not tell us whether there were one or many migration waves, or whether there was a continuous long-lasting gradual admixture. Their low frequency but still general spread all over India plus the estimated time scale, does not support a recent massive Indo-Aryan invasion, at least as far as maternally inherited genetic lineage are concerned. Furthermore, the spread of these western-Eurasian-specific mtDNA clusters also among Dravidic-speaking populations of India lends credence to the suggested linguistic connection between Elamite and Dravidian populations``.
``The supposed Aryan invasion of India 3000-4000 years before present therefore did not make a major splash in the Indian gene pool. This is especialy counter-indicated by the presence of equal, though very low, frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern india. Thus, the `Caucasoid` features of south Asians (Indians) may best be considered `pre-caucasoid` -that is, part of diverse north or north east western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago``.
----
#20 Posted by Urstruly on August 15, 2000 2:43:48 pm
RE: Friend # 19
Thanks Friend, I have been looking for such a study for a very long time. Although, it follows scientific method but the results drawn are still speculative and inconclusive. Based on this common gene data, can we also draw the following two conclusions:
1. There is one common ancestor (plz dont drag religion into it)
2. The migration may be reverse i.e people from sub-continent migrated towards West-it is equally debatable.
We should also keep in mind that at present a good number of anthropologists are working on a common ancestor that originated in Africa. It might be of real interest to readers that ``genetic archeologists`` (I just invented this term) have found common genetic material between African and Europeon population. That also supports conclusion#1. (or does it?)
Thanks Friend, I have been looking for such a study for a very long time. Although, it follows scientific method but the results drawn are still speculative and inconclusive. Based on this common gene data, can we also draw the following two conclusions:
1. There is one common ancestor (plz dont drag religion into it)
2. The migration may be reverse i.e people from sub-continent migrated towards West-it is equally debatable.
We should also keep in mind that at present a good number of anthropologists are working on a common ancestor that originated in Africa. It might be of real interest to readers that ``genetic archeologists`` (I just invented this term) have found common genetic material between African and Europeon population. That also supports conclusion#1. (or does it?)
#21 Posted by nameless on August 15, 2000 4:16:05 pm
Since this is chowk, and there are many who seem to be mysitifeid about Kargil - here is an article by M. ILYAS KHAN in the Herald (this is part II)
excerpted in Indian Express
The previous part told us about the mysterious body bags coming down from the mountain tops, and the problem the elite faced in the Nothern Areas.
Why, o why cannot the govt public acknowldge these braves young human beings! But then for our elite these young men are not human beings they are animals (like that young goon who let his dog on a ten year old girl afew days back), and for the muj they are just cannon fodder.
What a pity - a pity really for the elite do not value human life if it is not one of theirs.
00000000000000000000000000
When Kargil cover-up failed, Pak showered money to douse the anger
August 12: Scrambling for damage control, regime doled out compensation to grieving
widows spinning off changes in local customs -- causing more anguish
At first, the Pakistan regime crudely tried to cover up the deaths of Pak soldiers in
Kargil, as highlighted in yesterday`s report. But when the body bags started piling up in
the Northern Areas, a damage-control exercise began: compensation was showered to
douse the anger of martyrs` families. And, in the process, triggering off an economy of
divide where war widows fought with their in-laws and families were split. The future
is grim for the martyrs families, says the concluding part of a report by M. ILYAS KHAN
in the Herald. Excerpts:
On June 26, 1999, political activists (in the Northern Areas) raised slogans against the
manner in which the Kargil operation was being handled. At least a dozen leaders were
later jailed on sedition charges. More trouble broke out in Skardu where militants of
Al-Badar Mujahideen started arriving in late May to act, according to locals, as decoys.
These militants forcefully occupied a house in July to establish their office, leading to an
exchange of gunfire between them and the local people.
To prevent further public outbursts, top state dignitaries started making whirlwind tours
of the Northern Areas (NA) and extravagant rewards were bestowed on the martyrs
and their families. The elevation of the paramilitary Northern Light Infantry (NLI) to the
status of a regular Pakistan Army regiment with all benefits and privileges, and the
bestowal of over 40 medals of courage on NLI personnel (the largest number ever won
by a single infantry regiment in Pakistan), appear to have partially appeased injured
pride.
Monetary rewards seemed to have played a significant role. Each bereaved family
received 500,000 rupees out of the prime minister`s package, 60,000 rupees from the
GHQ (through corps commander Pindi), and 30,000 rupees announced by Chief
Executive General Pervez Musharraf. In addition, each family has received anywhere
between 200,000 and 400,000 rupees. ``The government has washed all my wounds,``
says Guizari of village Damasu, the young widow of Sepoy Saboor Khan of 11-NLI who
has two children. She received 900,000 rupees, and may soon marry her brother-in-law.
But in the neighbouring Bejayot village, the widow of Sepoy Hazrat Qabool of 4-NLI
has refused to remarry. She has already received 900,000 rupees in compensation and
expects to receive a further 300,000. She has two sons and two daughters, and says she
will spend her life raising them.
Not all widows are as lucky. In village Manich (Yasin subdivision), the widow of Sepoy
Mohammad Isa (4-NLI), being issueless after three years of marriage, had to leave her
husband`s house in keeping with local tradition. This has given rise to disputes over the
distribution of compensation money between Isa and her parents. A more instructive
case is that of Havaldar Major Lalak Jan (12-NLI) the recepient of the
Nishan-e-Haider. Having lost his first wife in childbirth, he remarried five months
before his martyrdom. After his death, there were rumours that Lalak Jan`s elder brother,
Gul Sambar Khan, a Havaldar in 30-AK Regiment, had been given 9.6 million rupees as
compensation by the government. The widow kicked up a fuss and, when told that it was
not true, refused to believe her brother-in-law and went away to her parents` house.
Subsequently, Gul Sambar Khan apparently prevented the authorities from issuing the
prime minister`s reward of 500,000 rupees in the widow`s name, as is generally done.
He also prevented the settlement of Lalak Jan`s pension in his widow`s name. The
dispute is still pending.
``These disputes have become the order of the day,`` says Zarawar Khan, Lalak Jan`s
cousin and the general secretary of the Al-Madad Welfare Organisation, founded by
Lalak Jan three years ago. ``The widows are taking off to their parents` houses along
with their children and the compensation money, abandoning the parents of the martyrs
who, in some cases, are too poor and weak to fend for themselves.``
Contrary to the orthodox Muslim society in Pakistan, local NA customs encourage an
issueless widow to remarry at once, and do not prevent young widows with children from
remarrying if they so desire. But the Kargil rewards have changed all that. ``The war
widows are not remarrying because they will have to forego the pension, and because
they will only get a widower as their match, something which they may not like with all
the wealth they now possess,`` says Zarawar Khan. ``Even their parents would rather
keep the rich daughter home than encourage her to remarry. This is corrupting our riwaj
(custom).``
This came to the fore during the Haj season this year when the war widows of Kargil
were offered a free Haj package. While the policy required them to be accompanied by a
mehram from the husband`s family, widows attempted to fake the identification
documents of their own brothers and fathers to get them on board. ``We caught dozens
of cases of fake identity in Ghizer alone, while many of them were helped by conniving
officials to slip by,`` says a senior district administration official.
However, when the glitter of the new-found money rubs off, another set of
disappointments lies in store for these families. The war affectees may not get the
houses they were promised by former prime minister Nawaz Sharif. The present
government has already revoked that promise, offering instead a plot and 200,000 rupees
in cash. None of the families has received any of these benefits, and they are likely to
wait a long time before enough plots can be spared for them.
Second, they may end up chasing shadows in their bid to get the martyrs` children into
proper schools. The children were promised free education, boarding and food at NLI
schools with the condition that they cleared the primary classes at home. While more
than 1,000 children of the martyrs are yet to complete primary school, children past the
primary stage are reported to have been denied admission in some NLI schools.
``The martyrs have departed, but life goes on with all its simplicity, hardships, cunning
and deception,`` says Nawaz Khan Naji, chairman of the the Balawaristan National
Front. ``One only hopes that the lives of their children will not be treated as casually by
the rulers as were those of the martyrs.``
excerpted in Indian Express
The previous part told us about the mysterious body bags coming down from the mountain tops, and the problem the elite faced in the Nothern Areas.
Why, o why cannot the govt public acknowldge these braves young human beings! But then for our elite these young men are not human beings they are animals (like that young goon who let his dog on a ten year old girl afew days back), and for the muj they are just cannon fodder.
What a pity - a pity really for the elite do not value human life if it is not one of theirs.
00000000000000000000000000
When Kargil cover-up failed, Pak showered money to douse the anger
August 12: Scrambling for damage control, regime doled out compensation to grieving
widows spinning off changes in local customs -- causing more anguish
At first, the Pakistan regime crudely tried to cover up the deaths of Pak soldiers in
Kargil, as highlighted in yesterday`s report. But when the body bags started piling up in
the Northern Areas, a damage-control exercise began: compensation was showered to
douse the anger of martyrs` families. And, in the process, triggering off an economy of
divide where war widows fought with their in-laws and families were split. The future
is grim for the martyrs families, says the concluding part of a report by M. ILYAS KHAN
in the Herald. Excerpts:
On June 26, 1999, political activists (in the Northern Areas) raised slogans against the
manner in which the Kargil operation was being handled. At least a dozen leaders were
later jailed on sedition charges. More trouble broke out in Skardu where militants of
Al-Badar Mujahideen started arriving in late May to act, according to locals, as decoys.
These militants forcefully occupied a house in July to establish their office, leading to an
exchange of gunfire between them and the local people.
To prevent further public outbursts, top state dignitaries started making whirlwind tours
of the Northern Areas (NA) and extravagant rewards were bestowed on the martyrs
and their families. The elevation of the paramilitary Northern Light Infantry (NLI) to the
status of a regular Pakistan Army regiment with all benefits and privileges, and the
bestowal of over 40 medals of courage on NLI personnel (the largest number ever won
by a single infantry regiment in Pakistan), appear to have partially appeased injured
pride.
Monetary rewards seemed to have played a significant role. Each bereaved family
received 500,000 rupees out of the prime minister`s package, 60,000 rupees from the
GHQ (through corps commander Pindi), and 30,000 rupees announced by Chief
Executive General Pervez Musharraf. In addition, each family has received anywhere
between 200,000 and 400,000 rupees. ``The government has washed all my wounds,``
says Guizari of village Damasu, the young widow of Sepoy Saboor Khan of 11-NLI who
has two children. She received 900,000 rupees, and may soon marry her brother-in-law.
But in the neighbouring Bejayot village, the widow of Sepoy Hazrat Qabool of 4-NLI
has refused to remarry. She has already received 900,000 rupees in compensation and
expects to receive a further 300,000. She has two sons and two daughters, and says she
will spend her life raising them.
Not all widows are as lucky. In village Manich (Yasin subdivision), the widow of Sepoy
Mohammad Isa (4-NLI), being issueless after three years of marriage, had to leave her
husband`s house in keeping with local tradition. This has given rise to disputes over the
distribution of compensation money between Isa and her parents. A more instructive
case is that of Havaldar Major Lalak Jan (12-NLI) the recepient of the
Nishan-e-Haider. Having lost his first wife in childbirth, he remarried five months
before his martyrdom. After his death, there were rumours that Lalak Jan`s elder brother,
Gul Sambar Khan, a Havaldar in 30-AK Regiment, had been given 9.6 million rupees as
compensation by the government. The widow kicked up a fuss and, when told that it was
not true, refused to believe her brother-in-law and went away to her parents` house.
Subsequently, Gul Sambar Khan apparently prevented the authorities from issuing the
prime minister`s reward of 500,000 rupees in the widow`s name, as is generally done.
He also prevented the settlement of Lalak Jan`s pension in his widow`s name. The
dispute is still pending.
``These disputes have become the order of the day,`` says Zarawar Khan, Lalak Jan`s
cousin and the general secretary of the Al-Madad Welfare Organisation, founded by
Lalak Jan three years ago. ``The widows are taking off to their parents` houses along
with their children and the compensation money, abandoning the parents of the martyrs
who, in some cases, are too poor and weak to fend for themselves.``
Contrary to the orthodox Muslim society in Pakistan, local NA customs encourage an
issueless widow to remarry at once, and do not prevent young widows with children from
remarrying if they so desire. But the Kargil rewards have changed all that. ``The war
widows are not remarrying because they will have to forego the pension, and because
they will only get a widower as their match, something which they may not like with all
the wealth they now possess,`` says Zarawar Khan. ``Even their parents would rather
keep the rich daughter home than encourage her to remarry. This is corrupting our riwaj
(custom).``
This came to the fore during the Haj season this year when the war widows of Kargil
were offered a free Haj package. While the policy required them to be accompanied by a
mehram from the husband`s family, widows attempted to fake the identification
documents of their own brothers and fathers to get them on board. ``We caught dozens
of cases of fake identity in Ghizer alone, while many of them were helped by conniving
officials to slip by,`` says a senior district administration official.
However, when the glitter of the new-found money rubs off, another set of
disappointments lies in store for these families. The war affectees may not get the
houses they were promised by former prime minister Nawaz Sharif. The present
government has already revoked that promise, offering instead a plot and 200,000 rupees
in cash. None of the families has received any of these benefits, and they are likely to
wait a long time before enough plots can be spared for them.
Second, they may end up chasing shadows in their bid to get the martyrs` children into
proper schools. The children were promised free education, boarding and food at NLI
schools with the condition that they cleared the primary classes at home. While more
than 1,000 children of the martyrs are yet to complete primary school, children past the
primary stage are reported to have been denied admission in some NLI schools.
``The martyrs have departed, but life goes on with all its simplicity, hardships, cunning
and deception,`` says Nawaz Khan Naji, chairman of the the Balawaristan National
Front. ``One only hopes that the lives of their children will not be treated as casually by
the rulers as were those of the martyrs.``
#22 Posted by macgupta on August 15, 2000 4:16:05 pm
In reply to Satyavadi :
If all the Indians belong to the same or very similar gene-pool or a mixture of several of them, then the difference between the complexions shouldnt be this pronounced.
Answer : this hypothesis is not necessarily correct. Quoting a few sentences from Steve Jones again (reference is in earlier post) :
``Although genetics is all about inheritance, inheritance is certainly not all about genetics. Nearly all inherited characters more complicated than a single change in the DNA involve gene and environment acting together. It is impossible to sort them into convenient compartments``.
--
One recent published example is that the body adapts to starvation in ways that would leave one more prone to a disease like diabetes. Such adaptations affect babies in the womb -- a purely environmental and not genetic change. These adaptations can be thus inherited -- studies of survivors of Hitler`s death camps and their children and grandchildren seems to suggest that the grandchildren suffer the effects of grandmother having starved.
--
Back to Jones :
[If human groups have descended from a series of distinct ancestors] and ``the genes which change people`s appearance really do represent the remnants of this history, then the races of the world should be distinct from one another in a large sample of their genes and not just those for skin color.``
``Are the trends in skin color -- resulting, as they do, from changes in less than ten genes -- accompanied in parallel trends in the hundred thousand functional genes which make up a human being ?``
``Hundreds of different genes -- for blood groups, enyzmes and inherited variants on the surfaces of cells -- have been mapped...the trends in skin color are not accompanied by those in other genes. Instead, the patterns of variation in each system (be it blood group, enzyme or cell-surface antigen are largely independent``.
``We would have a very different view of the human race if we diagnosed it from blood groups, with an unlikely alliance between the Armenians and the Nigerians, who could jointly despise the B-free people of Australia and Peru.``
``If after a global disaster, only one group, the Albanians, the Papuans or the Senegalese, survived, most of the world`s biological diversity [in humans] would be preserved.``
-arun gupta
#23 Posted by anamika on August 15, 2000 4:16:05 pm
#17 macgupta
Mac, as to why people in the tropics have dark skin, the reason seems obvious to me. The pigment absorbs and dissipates the light energy. Without it we would burn to a crisp.
Mac, as to why people in the tropics have dark skin, the reason seems obvious to me. The pigment absorbs and dissipates the light energy. Without it we would burn to a crisp.
#24 Posted by friend on August 15, 2000 4:16:05 pm
Urstruly #: 20
I am neither a historian nor a micro-biologist. Hence my observations may not be entirely correct. Best I know is that Mitochondrial DNA studies did indicate that first Human originated from Africa and should have originated from one source.
Migrations may have been in multiple directions. Murad Baig has given chronology of migration of civilization. I found that laughable. Does that mean that civilisations can not develop in parallel at two distant places? In that case, no Maya or Inca civilizations should have existed!!
regards
I am neither a historian nor a micro-biologist. Hence my observations may not be entirely correct. Best I know is that Mitochondrial DNA studies did indicate that first Human originated from Africa and should have originated from one source.
Migrations may have been in multiple directions. Murad Baig has given chronology of migration of civilization. I found that laughable. Does that mean that civilisations can not develop in parallel at two distant places? In that case, no Maya or Inca civilizations should have existed!!
regards
#25 Posted by friend on August 15, 2000 4:16:05 pm
Urstruly #: 20
I am neither a historian nor a micro-biologist. Hence my observations may not be entirely correct. Best I know is that Mitochondrial DNA studies did indicate that first Human originated from Africa and should have originated from one source.
Migrations may have been in multiple directions. Murad Baig has given chronology of migration of civilization. I found that laughable. Does that mean that civilisations can not develop in parallel at two distant places? In that case, no Maya or Inca civilizations should have existed!!
regards
I am neither a historian nor a micro-biologist. Hence my observations may not be entirely correct. Best I know is that Mitochondrial DNA studies did indicate that first Human originated from Africa and should have originated from one source.
Migrations may have been in multiple directions. Murad Baig has given chronology of migration of civilization. I found that laughable. Does that mean that civilisations can not develop in parallel at two distant places? In that case, no Maya or Inca civilizations should have existed!!
regards
#26 Posted by Urstruly on August 15, 2000 4:41:12 pm
RE: Friend #20
That leaves us with more questions than answers. I think main culprit is our undue reliance on Darwin`s Theories of Evolution (and Natural Selection); we are being too un-scientific by not exploring other options. In my opinion it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.
That leaves us with more questions than answers. I think main culprit is our undue reliance on Darwin`s Theories of Evolution (and Natural Selection); we are being too un-scientific by not exploring other options. In my opinion it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.
#27 Posted by sadna on August 15, 2000 5:12:16 pm
An article appeared in the NYTimes(now in archives)
The Human Family Tree: 10 Adams and 18 Eves
by Nicholas Wade
May 2 2000
I`m not sure it was in the same article, but it was mentioned that groups of people from disparate geographical locations could now investigate whether they were indeed `related` or common descendents of one of these `few` ancestors.
In one interesting example, genetic information was extracted from a 7000-9000 year-old human body which had been found in England, and the locals were tested for genetic linkages. Believe it or not, one local man was found who was related to that many-thousand-year-old ancestor.
Sadhana
#29 Posted by friend on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
Murad,
In your quest of unvarnishing India, please don`t forget to provide your source of Information about ``recent convert to Hinduism`` Mihirakula.
Please be specific and don`t list the catalog of Delhi Public Library.
Regards
In your quest of unvarnishing India, please don`t forget to provide your source of Information about ``recent convert to Hinduism`` Mihirakula.
Please be specific and don`t list the catalog of Delhi Public Library.
Regards
#30 Posted by satyavadi on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
friend #18
``Average doesn`t mean that every member of set has to be exactly average``
I never implied that. Wonder why you got that impression.
I raised my querries, since in your previous post, you seemed to say, that it was only the occupations that people were involved in that caused the difference. Though now you acknowledge intermingling of different races. I guess, my question is, IS the complexion difference mostly due to occupations and conseqeunt sun-exposure over hundreds of years OR is it because of different blood and genes? I am not arguing for any of the above, just trying to know your opinion.
friend #19:
this post was particularly interesting. It does suggest that the north indians and south indians or aryans and dravidians are not as distinct as they are made to be, by the AIT.
What is the pre-dominant opinion among scholars of South-Asian anthropology? Is AIT, still the pre-dominant theory? Atleast the textbooks before 10 years taught it as gospel truth. Dont know if they have covered alternate theories too, in the modified syllabi.
macgupta #21:
Your post did provide some interesting insights. Was really surprised by that claim about the grandchildren of holocaust survivors. I always thought genetic alterations (mutations) were very slow, and took hundreds if not thousands of years (in the true Darwinian fashion) to produce any singificant changes in any speices.
I am not a genetics or anthropology buff and I dont know the credentials of this Mr. Jones. But, usually there are always conflicting opinions among scholars, and the pre-dominant one is the accepted ``best plausible truth`` for that time period. Does Jones` fall in that category?
Urstruly:
#26:
``it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.``
A lot of times, I feel the same way. But then, more than hundred an fifty years after Darwin propounded that theory, there is still no plausible, respectably accepted alternative (or is there?). So, seems like that theory is not entirely without its merits.
``Average doesn`t mean that every member of set has to be exactly average``
I never implied that. Wonder why you got that impression.
I raised my querries, since in your previous post, you seemed to say, that it was only the occupations that people were involved in that caused the difference. Though now you acknowledge intermingling of different races. I guess, my question is, IS the complexion difference mostly due to occupations and conseqeunt sun-exposure over hundreds of years OR is it because of different blood and genes? I am not arguing for any of the above, just trying to know your opinion.
friend #19:
this post was particularly interesting. It does suggest that the north indians and south indians or aryans and dravidians are not as distinct as they are made to be, by the AIT.
What is the pre-dominant opinion among scholars of South-Asian anthropology? Is AIT, still the pre-dominant theory? Atleast the textbooks before 10 years taught it as gospel truth. Dont know if they have covered alternate theories too, in the modified syllabi.
macgupta #21:
Your post did provide some interesting insights. Was really surprised by that claim about the grandchildren of holocaust survivors. I always thought genetic alterations (mutations) were very slow, and took hundreds if not thousands of years (in the true Darwinian fashion) to produce any singificant changes in any speices.
I am not a genetics or anthropology buff and I dont know the credentials of this Mr. Jones. But, usually there are always conflicting opinions among scholars, and the pre-dominant one is the accepted ``best plausible truth`` for that time period. Does Jones` fall in that category?
Urstruly:
#26:
``it is as dogmatic as any other religion minus God. Probably the last part is the only reason for its popularity among scientific circles because it somehow manages to subtract God out of a very dogmatic interpretation of the reason of our existence. But there is always a ``missing link`` that gets in the way.``
A lot of times, I feel the same way. But then, more than hundred an fifty years after Darwin propounded that theory, there is still no plausible, respectably accepted alternative (or is there?). So, seems like that theory is not entirely without its merits.
#31 Posted by sudheerbirodkar on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
Many of these questions have been answered at the site:
http://hindutwa.com
http://hindutwa.com
#32 Posted by sudheerbirodkar on August 16, 2000 2:10:30 am
Dear Reader,
Here is an extract from a site where many of the questions asked by Mr. Murad Ali Baig have been answered:
http://hindutwa.com
HINDU HISTORY *
- A Search for Our Present in History
______________________
by Sudheer Birodkar
______________________________________________
This site has been selected by Encyclopedia Britannica ``as one of the best on the Internet, when reviewed for quality,
accuracy of content, presentation and usability``.
________________________________________________
The intriguing title of this book represents a novel approach to the study of present society looked upon as a result of history.
This approach `stands on its head` the conventional approach to the study of history which begins with the dim past and comes to the present
as a conclusion. Our approach starts with social institutions and practices of the contemporary age and traces their origin and development
to the historic past. With this approach the reader does not feel lost on the opening page of a history book. He is not confronted with a
society in which lived his ancestors two or three thousand years ago. He begins with the society surrounding him, which is of his immediate
concern. This method of interpreting the present and past should establish an intimate rapport between a citizen of today and the heritage
bequeathed to him by earlier generations. In our lifestyle, customs, traditions, beliefs; our history is reflected but it is normally beyond our
perception. It would be a fascinating and enlightening experience to trace the origins of things we see and do today in the bygone ages.
As students of Indian history and Indian Culture, can we answer questions like:
1) What did ancient Indians contribute to modern global civilization?
2) Is it true that zero originated as a philosophical concept in ancient India?
3) Did ancient Indians discover the heliocentric theory of gravitation nearly three thousand years before Copernicus and Galileo ?
4) Is it true that Ancient Indians invented the decimal numerals?
5) In the field of medicine did they develop the herbal system of medication?
6) Did they also evolve the system of of physio-theraphy ?
7) Do we know that in the field of production they are credited with the manufacture of crystal sugar and the extraction of sandalwood oil.
They also have to their credit the discovery and application of lac and camphor. According to the Oxford Dictionary, the English words for
these products are derived from Sanskrit - the language of ancient India.
8) Do we know that Ancient Indians also excelled in the fine-arts like Music, Dance, Painting, Dramatics and literature.
9) Do we know how Ancient Indians dressed. What did they wear?
10)What sort of Jewellery, cosmetics, did they use?
11)What kind of food did they eat?
12)How did they get educated? What kind of schools existed in ancient India ?
13)What did they worship? What kind of Religious beliefs did they have?
14)What did they do for fun? What games did they play?
15)How were ancient Indians governed?
16)What kind of pets did they have?
17) What were the abstracts and unusuals, which caught the interest of ancient Indians?
18) What was the Caste System of ancient Indians like?
19) Why have Indians always attached more importance to Non-violence (Ahimsa) than any other people?
20) How did vegetarianism become nearly an all pervading attitude in India from ancient times?
21) How is it that the cow (Gomata) and bull (Nandi) have come to acquire an exalted place in our religious pantheon?
22) How was the practice of charity (Dana) elevated to the status of a religious offering?
23) Why do we propitiate the elementals, especially fire ( in Yagna ) to usher in prosperity?
24) How did our insistence on performing events such as marriage, thread ceremony, opening ceremony, etc., at a certain auspicious time
(Muhurta) come into being?
25) How did the practice of observing fast (Upavasa) originate and what could be the motive behind fasting and other practices like walking
over hot coals, puncturing parts of one`s body or tonsuring one`s head?
26) What purpose did the ideas like Moksha and Nirvana (release from the cycle of re-birth) serve in Indian society and how did they come
into being?
27) What is the forgotten meaning behind our religious symbols like Swastika and Omkar?
28) What does the vermilion mark that we traditionally apply on our forehead (Tilaka) and our method of greeting each other with folded
hands (Namaskara) signify?
29) How did we come to look upon the saffron colour as sacred?
30) What do we know about the social origins of festivals like Navaratri, Diwali or Holi, that we celebrate with faith and fervour?
31) Why had secularism, commonly understood as religious tolerance (Sarva dharma samabhava) normally been part of Indian polity in
ancient times as in post-independence India?
32) Why do we attach overwhelming importance to ideas like fate (Daiva) and re-birth (Punarjanma)?
33) Why do we explain away disqualifications arising out of birth in a particular caste and other misfortunes with the doctrine of deeds in
past life (Karma)?
34) Why do we frown upon a person who marries outside his caste?
35) How did this endogamy (Sajatiya Vivaha) originate?
36) Why has occupational stratification crystallized with birth in a particular caste only in Indian Society?
37) How did one section of Indian society acquire the hereditary status of noble born (Dvija) and another as low born (Shudra)?
38) Why do some of us still consider the mere touch of members of some castes as polluting?
39) How did our attitudes of untouchability and unapproachability originate?
40) Why did we follow, till recently, practices like dowry (Daheja), Widow burning (Sati) and child marriage (Bal-Vivaha)?
41) What reason lies behind our concept of Satyuga (age of righteousness) which we believe existed in some time past and will return at the
end of the existing dark age (Kaliyuga)?
The list could be endless. The author has attempted to present facts and hypotheses about these various issues by beginning from the present
period and tracing into the past, the evolution of these social attitudes which today continue to be a part of an average Indian`s temperament.
Awareness of the origins of our social attitudes also acquires added importance as compared to issues of the contemporary age like
inflation, unemployment, corruption, the global arms race, etc. This is so because, contemporary issues are always in focus. The majority of
us are quite familiar with them as these issues are products of our age and the media keeps us well informed about-developments taking
place. Added to this, these issues are not bound up with religion, tradition or culture and hence are always open to public debate.
On the contrary much is unknown to us about our attitudes that arise from socio-religious traditions inherited from the past. Their having
originated in the hazy past alongwith the sanctity that is attached to most of them, results in our being ignorant of the real meaning behind
attitudes that contribute significantly to the shaping of our temperament.
ORIGIN OF THE CAT-ASTROPHE
An anecdote would illustrate the birth of a belief from a practice that began in a simple utilitarian manner.
This is the story of a pious God-fearing king from ancient India. To earn the praise of the lords of Heaven this king annually organised mass
feeding of Sadhus, Sanyasis (hermits) and Brahmins (priests). Countless number of learned Brahmins, Sadhus and Sanyasis used to
converge on his palace to partake in the gastronomical delights and bestow their blessings on the generous king.
On one such occasion it so happened that when the holy assemblage was being served Kheer (the Indian porridge) one of the royal pet cats
ran into the unfortunate steward who tripped and measured his length on the floor, spilling the bubbling stew on their holiness`.
The helpless steward was at the receiving end of their curses, but the enlightened king pacified them and after performing ablutions on them
to wash off the offending stains, he decreed that henceforth before the commencement of the great feast all cats in the palace ground should
be herded together and tied to a Stake, to prevent any such untoward incident in future.
The mass feeding continued undisturbed year after year and so did the practice of tying up to a stake, the feline members of the royal habitat
who came to be looked upon as portending misfortune. With the passing of years the old king was no more, but his son was no less pious
than him and so also was the grandson. Generation after generation scrupulously adhered to this practice of tying up the feline population
followed by the grand feast. No feast could begin unless tying up `ceremony` had been duly completed. The two practices came to be
looked upon as essential for earning the praise of the lords of Heaven.
Then one year came a severe famine. Rivers went dry, fields were barren and the kingdom`s people started migrating to better places. Came
the day for the annual event but there were hardly any Brahmins left to do justice to the meagre rations that remained in the royal larder.
After consulting his Chaplain the reigning king decided to temporarily suspend the second practice of hosting the grand luncheon. But as
advised by the learned chaplain, the king decided to solemnly honour the first practice of tying up a few feline `beasts of doom` and earn
whatever praise the lords of heaven could bestow. But there were no cats to be found in the famine-struck kingdom. So the King ordered
that a few cats be obtained from the neighbouring kingdom for the tieing-up ceremony to be duly performed on the auspicious day!
It was a bad time for the country and the famine continued for many consecutive years during which period, the Reigning king passed away
and was succeded by his youthful son. The youthful King also scrupulously adhered to the practice of annually tying up all cats to earn the
lord`s praise, as he had seen his father perform it. The country finally recovered from the dry spell and happier days were back. With
prosperity having returned, the old generation advisers recalled the practice of giving the annual feast and the king wanted to re-institute that
practice after seeking the royal chaplain`s blessings. But the royal chaplain had seen how his power over the king had increased in absence
of other Brahmins who would otherwise hover around the king.
Keeping this in mind, the wily chaplain advised the king against re-instituting the mass feeding because, he said, the terrible famine was a
result of divine wrath on the practice of feeding idle members of society which had been observed since countless generations.
The chaplain convinced the king by telling him that the country obtained deliverance from the divine wrath only because the Gods saw that
this practice had been done away with for the last few years. The chaplain argued that it was enough to continue the annual event of tying up
the inauspicious feline harbingers of catastrophes and earning the praise of the lords of heaven.
Thus convinced, the king ordained that henceforth in his kingdom all feline creatures were to be herded together and tied up on the day the
grand feast used to be observed. This was to be the sacred duty of every citizen, as the future of the kingdom depended on the lord`s
blessings which could not be obtained if the `holy` practice of tying up all cats was not followed. Non-observance of the practice was made
a punishable offence. From that year onwards, the grand feast was forgotten but the ceremony of tying cats took root.
And ages later neither the king remained nor his kingdom, but this `holy` ritual that defied rationale built up the belief of cats being the vehicles
of ill omen. A belief which has withstood the test of time.
A reading of the Panchantantra, Hitopadesha, Katha-Sarit-Sagara and the Jatakas, our national collections of similar anecdotes would bring
out many instances of how most of our rituals and beliefs originated from simple worldly actions of our forebears.
Indian history is replete with such beliefs end rituals which had a sound reason for coming into being but later they were continued to be
observed despite the fact that the reason did not hold true any more. Our daily life also abounds with innumerable rituals the meaning of
which is lost in history. We follow them out of reverence. But can reverence help us in understanding the roots of our culture, or for that do
we need an attitude of inquiry ?
An inquisitive and fertile mind can pose incisive questions and strive for convincing answers. In this book; HINDU HISTORY - A Search
for Our Present in History, a modest attempt has been made to accomplish this.
The language used in this book is a simple one, as the author hopes to reach to a wide readership. No specialised knowledge is called for to
understand what is being told. And as the social attitudes and customs which are being discussed form part of our present-day lives, no
lengthy introduction is necessary . All that is hoped from the reader is a dispassionate approach in understanding the process of evolution of
attitudes, traditions and beliefs which have been handed down to us by our forebears. For this it would do well to bear in mind our
sagacious adage:
Asatoma Sad Gamaya
Tamasoma Jyotir Gamaya
( Lead me from falsehoods to truth
and from ignorance to enlightenment )
__________
*Note on the terms `Indian` and `Hindu`
The terms `Hindu` and `Indian` are synonymous. This is so as the word Hindu is a corruption of the word Sindhu (river) by the Persians.
They converted the letter `S` to `H` as the letter `S` was missing in the ancient Persian script. The Persians called the Sindhu as Hindu and all
those living beyond the river as `Hindus`. When the Greeks under Alekshendra (Alexander), invaded north-western India, they further
corrupted the Persian term `Hindu` to `Indus` which was further corrupted by the Romans to give us the present English term `Indian`. The
Chinese also corrupted the Persian term to derived their terms `Indu` and `Hsin Tu` for Indians. Thus the terms Hindu and Indian have a
common origin and hence philologically are synonymous.
Sudheer Birodkar
sudheerbirodkar@yahoo.com
Here is an extract from a site where many of the questions asked by Mr. Murad Ali Baig have been answered:
http://hindutwa.com
HINDU HISTORY *
- A Search for Our Present in History
______________________
by Sudheer Birodkar
______________________________________________
This site has been selected by Encyclopedia Britannica ``as one of the best on the Internet, when reviewed for quality,
accuracy of content, presentation and usability``.
________________________________________________
The intriguing title of this book represents a novel approach to the study of present society looked upon as a result of history.
This approach `stands on its head` the conventional approach to the study of history which begins with the dim past and comes to the present
as a conclusion. Our approach starts with social institutions and practices of the contemporary age and traces their origin and development
to the historic past. With this approach the reader does not feel lost on the opening page of a history book. He is not confronted with a
society in which lived his ancestors two or three thousand years ago. He begins with the society surrounding him, which is of his immediate
concern. This method of interpreting the present and past should establish an intimate rapport between a citizen of today and the heritage
bequeathed to him by earlier generations. In our lifestyle, customs, traditions, beliefs; our history is reflected but it is normally beyond our
perception. It would be a fascinating and enlightening experience to trace the origins of things we see and do today in the bygone ages.
As students of Indian history and Indian Culture, can we answer questions like:
1) What did ancient Indians contribute to modern global civilization?
2) Is it true that zero originated as a philosophical concept in ancient India?
3) Did ancient Indians discover the heliocentric theory of gravitation nearly three thousand years before Copernicus and Galileo ?
4) Is it true that Ancient Indians invented the decimal numerals?
5) In the field of medicine did they develop the herbal system of medication?
6) Did they also evolve the system of of physio-theraphy ?
7) Do we know that in the field of production they are credited with the manufacture of crystal sugar and the extraction of sandalwood oil.
They also have to their credit the discovery and application of lac and camphor. According to the Oxford Dictionary, the English words for
these products are derived from Sanskrit - the language of ancient India.
8) Do we know that Ancient Indians also excelled in the fine-arts like Music, Dance, Painting, Dramatics and literature.
9) Do we know how Ancient Indians dressed. What did they wear?
10)What sort of Jewellery, cosmetics, did they use?
11)What kind of food did they eat?
12)How did they get educated? What kind of schools existed in ancient India ?
13)What did they worship? What kind of Religious beliefs did they have?
14)What did they do for fun? What games did they play?
15)How were ancient Indians governed?
16)What kind of pets did they have?
17) What were the abstracts and unusuals, which caught the interest of ancient Indians?
18) What was the Caste System of ancient Indians like?
19) Why have Indians always attached more importance to Non-violence (Ahimsa) than any other people?
20) How did vegetarianism become nearly an all pervading attitude in India from ancient times?
21) How is it that the cow (Gomata) and bull (Nandi) have come to acquire an exalted place in our religious pantheon?
22) How was the practice of charity (Dana) elevated to the status of a religious offering?
23) Why do we propitiate the elementals, especially fire ( in Yagna ) to usher in prosperity?
24) How did our insistence on performing events such as marriage, thread ceremony, opening ceremony, etc., at a certain auspicious time
(Muhurta) come into being?
25) How did the practice of observing fast (Upavasa) originate and what could be the motive behind fasting and other practices like walking
over hot coals, puncturing parts of one`s body or tonsuring one`s head?
26) What purpose did the ideas like Moksha and Nirvana (release from the cycle of re-birth) serve in Indian society and how did they come
into being?
27) What is the forgotten meaning behind our religious symbols like Swastika and Omkar?
28) What does the vermilion mark that we traditionally apply on our forehead (Tilaka) and our method of greeting each other with folded
hands (Namaskara) signify?
29) How did we come to look upon the saffron colour as sacred?
30) What do we know about the social origins of festivals like Navaratri, Diwali or Holi, that we celebrate with faith and fervour?
31) Why had secularism, commonly understood as religious tolerance (Sarva dharma samabhava) normally been part of Indian polity in
ancient times as in post-independence India?
32) Why do we attach overwhelming importance to ideas like fate (Daiva) and re-birth (Punarjanma)?
33) Why do we explain away disqualifications arising out of birth in a particular caste and other misfortunes with the doctrine of deeds in
past life (Karma)?
34) Why do we frown upon a person who marries outside his caste?
35) How did this endogamy (Sajatiya Vivaha) originate?
36) Why has occupational stratification crystallized with birth in a particular caste only in Indian Society?
37) How did one section of Indian society acquire the hereditary status of noble born (Dvija) and another as low born (Shudra)?
38) Why do some of us still consider the mere touch of members of some castes as polluting?
39) How did our attitudes of untouchability and unapproachability originate?
40) Why did we follow, till recently, practices like dowry (Daheja), Widow burning (Sati) and child marriage (Bal-Vivaha)?
41) What reason lies behind our concept of Satyuga (age of righteousness) which we believe existed in some time past and will return at the
end of the existing dark age (Kaliyuga)?
The list could be endless. The author has attempted to present facts and hypotheses about these various issues by beginning from the present
period and tracing into the past, the evolution of these social attitudes which today continue to be a part of an average Indian`s temperament.
Awareness of the origins of our social attitudes also acquires added importance as compared to issues of the contemporary age like
inflation, unemployment, corruption, the global arms race, etc. This is so because, contemporary issues are always in focus. The majority of
us are quite familiar with them as these issues are products of our age and the media keeps us well informed about-developments taking
place. Added to this, these issues are not bound up with religion, tradition or culture and hence are always open to public debate.
On the contrary much is unknown to us about our attitudes that arise from socio-religious traditions inherited from the past. Their having
originated in the hazy past alongwith the sanctity that is attached to most of them, results in our being ignorant of the real meaning behind
attitudes that contribute significantly to the shaping of our temperament.
ORIGIN OF THE CAT-ASTROPHE
An anecdote would illustrate the birth of a belief from a practice that began in a simple utilitarian manner.
This is the story of a pious God-fearing king from ancient India. To earn the praise of the lords of Heaven this king annually organised mass
feeding of Sadhus, Sanyasis (hermits) and Brahmins (priests). Countless number of learned Brahmins, Sadhus and Sanyasis used to
converge on his palace to partake in the gastronomical delights and bestow their blessings on the generous king.
On one such occasion it so happened that when the holy assemblage was being served Kheer (the Indian porridge) one of the royal pet cats
ran into the unfortunate steward who tripped and measured his length on the floor, spilling the bubbling stew on their holiness`.
The helpless steward was at the receiving end of their curses, but the enlightened king pacified them and after performing ablutions on them
to wash off the offending stains, he decreed that henceforth before the commencement of the great feast all cats in the palace ground should
be herded together and tied to a Stake, to prevent any such untoward incident in future.
The mass feeding continued undisturbed year after year and so did the practice of tying up to a stake, the feline members of the royal habitat
who came to be looked upon as portending misfortune. With the passing of years the old king was no more, but his son was no less pious
than him and so also was the grandson. Generation after generation scrupulously adhered to this practice of tying up the feline population
followed by the grand feast. No feast could begin unless tying up `ceremony` had been duly completed. The two practices came to be
looked upon as essential for earning the praise of the lords of Heaven.
Then one year came a severe famine. Rivers went dry, fields were barren and the kingdom`s people started migrating to better places. Came
the day for the annual event but there were hardly any Brahmins left to do justice to the meagre rations that remained in the royal larder.
After consulting his Chaplain the reigning king decided to temporarily suspend the second practice of hosting the grand luncheon. But as
advised by the learned chaplain, the king decided to solemnly honour the first practice of tying up a few feline `beasts of doom` and earn
whatever praise the lords of heaven could bestow. But there were no cats to be found in the famine-struck kingdom. So the King ordered
that a few cats be obtained from the neighbouring kingdom for the tieing-up ceremony to be duly performed on the auspicious day!
It was a bad time for the country and the famine continued for many consecutive years during which period, the Reigning king passed away
and was succeded by his youthful son. The youthful King also scrupulously adhered to the practice of annually tying up all cats to earn the
lord`s praise, as he had seen his father perform it. The country finally recovered from the dry spell and happier days were back. With
prosperity having returned, the old generation advisers recalled the practice of giving the annual feast and the king wanted to re-institute that
practice after seeking the royal chaplain`s blessings. But the royal chaplain had seen how his power over the king had increased in absence
of other Brahmins who would otherwise hover around the king.
Keeping this in mind, the wily chaplain advised the king against re-instituting the mass feeding because, he said, the terrible famine was a
result of divine wrath on the practice of feeding idle members of society which had been observed since countless generations.
The chaplain convinced the king by telling him that the country obtained deliverance from the divine wrath only because the Gods saw that
this practice had been done away with for the last few years. The chaplain argued that it was enough to continue the annual event of tying up
the inauspicious feline harbingers of catastrophes and earning the praise of the lords of heaven.
Thus convinced, the king ordained that henceforth in his kingdom all feline creatures were to be herded together and tied up on the day the
grand feast used to be observed. This was to be the sacred duty of every citizen, as the future of the kingdom depended on the lord`s
blessings which could not be obtained if the `holy` practice of tying up all cats was not followed. Non-observance of the practice was made
a punishable offence. From that year onwards, the grand feast was forgotten but the ceremony of tying cats took root.
And ages later neither the king remained nor his kingdom, but this `holy` ritual that defied rationale built up the belief of cats being the vehicles
of ill omen. A belief which has withstood the test of time.
A reading of the Panchantantra, Hitopadesha, Katha-Sarit-Sagara and the Jatakas, our national collections of similar anecdotes would bring
out many instances of how most of our rituals and beliefs originated from simple worldly actions of our forebears.
Indian history is replete with such beliefs end rituals which had a sound reason for coming into being but later they were continued to be
observed despite the fact that the reason did not hold true any more. Our daily life also abounds with innumerable rituals the meaning of
which is lost in history. We follow them out of reverence. But can reverence help us in understanding the roots of our culture, or for that do
we need an attitude of inquiry ?
An inquisitive and fertile mind can pose incisive questions and strive for convincing answers. In this book; HINDU HISTORY - A Search
for Our Present in History, a modest attempt has been made to accomplish this.
The language used in this book is a simple one, as the author hopes to reach to a wide readership. No specialised knowledge is called for to
understand what is being told. And as the social attitudes and customs which are being discussed form part of our present-day lives, no
lengthy introduction is necessary . All that is hoped from the reader is a dispassionate approach in understanding the process of evolution of
attitudes, traditions and beliefs which have been handed down to us by our forebears. For this it would do well to bear in mind our
sagacious adage:
Asatoma Sad Gamaya
Tamasoma Jyotir Gamaya
( Lead me from falsehoods to truth
and from ignorance to enlightenment )
__________
*Note on the terms `Indian` and `Hindu`
The terms `Hindu` and `Indian` are synonymous. This is so as the word Hindu is a corruption of the word Sindhu (river) by the Persians.
They converted the letter `S` to `H` as the letter `S` was missing in the ancient Persian script. The Persians called the Sindhu as Hindu and all
those living beyond the river as `Hindus`. When the Greeks under Alekshendra (Alexander), invaded north-western India, they further
corrupted the Persian term `Hindu` to `Indus` which was further corrupted by the Romans to give us the present English term `Indian`. The
Chinese also corrupted the Persian term to derived their terms `Indu` and `Hsin Tu` for Indians. Thus the terms Hindu and Indian have a
common origin and hence philologically are synonymous.
Sudheer Birodkar
sudheerbirodkar@yahoo.com
#33 Posted by Urstruly on August 16, 2000 10:03:37 am
RE: SudheerB
Mr. Sudheer I checked your site but I couldnt get past your definition of word OM. After reading your definition several times I didnt understand what were you trying to say?
Mr. Sudheer I checked your site but I couldnt get past your definition of word OM. After reading your definition several times I didnt understand what were you trying to say?
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- tahmed32: #72 harish_hyd: first, it... India-Pakistan: Empathy, grief in
- nkg: Re: # 69 dm... yeh, you... India-Pakistan: Empathy, grief in
- harish_hyd: #71 by tahmed32 If a... India-Pakistan: Empathy, grief in
- nkg: Re: # 1 kcs... when you... Karachi Riots! Who is
- tahmed32: DM#69 "Before any meaningful... India-Pakistan: Empathy, grief in








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