1971 in 2000

Sisson and Rose, in the first few chapters, is nothing but a bald recital of the political events of 1970 and 1971 leading upto March 25, 1971. No value judgements are drawn.

Nevertheless, the reader will be struck by how much Bhutto`s blind ambition and lust for power seem to have repeatedly sunk any hope for a compromise between East & West.

The attitudes of the West towards the East -- Bengalis are recently converted semi-Muslims, worshippers of Kali, contaminated by Hindus; Bengalis are cowardly, can be suppressed and will not fight are also weighed into Bhutto`s, Yahya Khan`s and the military`s decisions.

The Kashmir issue then too was a fatal millstone around the neck of a united Pakistan -- Bhutto played upon fears of the West that a Awami League national government might be willing to compromise with India on Kashmir.

One also sees Yahya Khan progressively shutting himself off from the advice of those who were most familiar with Bengal, and listening only to Bhutto, and to the people with the most prejudice and least knowledge.

The only way Sisson and Rose could have biased this tale is by omitting significant events; and if they have not done so, one is hard-pressed to understand why anyone would consider Bhutto to be a statesman or a patriot.

-arun gupta

Re: Shankar # 165

Well said! I applaud your stand! Lately, I have been coming to the same conclusion that talking is better than dying.

Jay thinks that I wish to turn Chowk into a cyber peace forum. I am not an idealistic to think that Chowk interacts will bring peace to South Asia. Peace will come when we see each other as human beings and not as objects of hate only to be killed because we do not have the courage to talk peace!

Shankar, I can only hope that many more people will see and feel the same way as you do on both sides of the political fence!

Re: Jay

One question!

Both of my parents` familes came from India. My dad`s family was from Agra and my mother`s was from Bombay.

Do you you honestly think that I want to nuke my parents ancestral homelands? :)

Ciao!

Re Contemplative # 158

There is flaw in your equating the Pakistan crossing of LOC in Kashmir in 1999 and India crossing the LOC in Bangladesh in December 1971.

In the latter case, Indian troops were invited in by the government of Bangladesh that was formed in April of that year subsequent to the 26 March Declaration of Independence. I don`t recall either the Indian government or even the Kashmir state government inviting Pakistan into Kashmir.

Oh, by the way, in case you folks wonder about the credentials of the first Bangladesh government, it WAS formed on the basis of elected representatives. Heck, it should have been the government of the entire Pakistani federation!

I feel that the HRC report should be a sign of good things to happen to the subcontinent--IF IT IS INTERPRETED AS A LESSON OF HUMAN FOLLY RATHER THAN A PAKISTANI DEBACLE.

Rather than looking over the fence & laughing at Pakistan`s humiliation, it is incumbundant on us Indians to look into ourselves & examine our own follies.

Whether we care to accept it or not, Pakistanis are just as human as us. If it can happen to them it can happen to us. In fact, it HAS happened to us & continues to happen. What had been/has happening in Indian Punjab & Kashmir should give us pause. I dont care whether or how much Pakistan is responsible ; I am genuinely ashamed & humiliated by the behaviour of the Indian govts--past & present..

Let me not debate Kashmir, because it has been debated to death. Let me point out what we have done to sikhs.

I will argue that it has been the sikhs who have been the most noble & patriotic of all Indians. I dont care if I stck my neck out--I feel they have served India better than most hindus. They have fed our country & countless have given their lives in her defence. Their hard work, intelligence & enterprise has made them one of the most prosperous Indian community in India & even in many foreign countries. Sikhs have played a major role in our ``green revolution`` & despite Indias disastrous socialist experiment, they have practically eliminated poverty in their native Punjab. Sikhs have won most of our Olympic medals. I dont want to belabor my point except to say that Sikhs are the very symbol of India.

Indira Gandhi`s government poked its nose where it did`nt belong. They tried to exploit splits within the Sikh factions & percieved hindu insecurities just for political gains. To make a long story short, we had a radical/militant/terrorist faction of Sikhs occupying the Golden temple. Yes they terrorised hindus & I`m not condoning them for it. But to judge the whole sikh community for the action of a few terrorists is unconsionable. Most moderate sikhs, who considered the concept of Khalistan with scorn & condemned the terrorists ,also unanimously cautioned Indira Gandhi not to storm the Golden Temple.

Terrorists or no terrorists, to assault the most sacred site of ANY religion is blasphemy. I dont care how murderous those terrorists were. For a nation that boasts about secularism, it is a matter of great national humiliation to send the army to storm the Golden Temple. If anyone argues that sikh jawans were present in that assault

only goes to prove their loyalty.If we claim we are a democracy, then we make the govt--so we are collectively just as responsible. I dont blame the Sikhs for being hurt & angry about that. We owe them an apology, at the very least.

This national disgrace turned many patriotic sikhs militant. Instead of branding them as ``traitors``, it was incumbant upon us Indians to engage in meaningful dialogue with them.

I`m not condoning the assassiniation of Indira Gandhi.I`m saying it was a national shame for us to come to that. What happened after she was assassinated? how many innocent Sikhs were killed in its wake? My stomach turned when ABC news showed an 8 yr old Sikh boy who was partially burned after gasoline was doused upon him. Why are these people still scott free?!

Sikhs are not asking for gratitude for all they have done for our country. But what kind of respect are we showing them?

The same can be said about our role in Kashmir. Bal Thakrey being arrested and released (because of hindu militant threats) for his role in inciting hindu-muslim riots diminishes us.

I will weep for all victims of terrorism, be they hindu ,muslim, sikhs ,christians etc etc. Taking a confrontative & divisive stand against minorities or regions that are unhappy with us ,worsens the problem. Thats why I`m so dissapointed with our govt for breaking off talks with the Hizb. Talking doesnt automatically mean giving up what India is fighting for?

Making minorities Presidents of our country is just a symbol of India`s commitment to secularism. But what kind of commitment is it, when we dont criticise & own up to our mistakes?

So, IMHO, we are just as good or bad as the Pakistanis. If they want to talk to us, lets talk for God`s sake. I`m sick & tired of the ``betrayal`` of Kargil. Everyone knows the Kashmir crisis will not end if Pakistan is not included. Lastly, neither side can afford a war.

If we have to survive as nations, we better learn from our own devils, rather than laugh at the other guy`s devils.

Re: Satyavadi

O bacha, Singa chal day. Tum bohut bak bak karti hay. Hamara Pukhtun bhai aur hamara Baloch bhai nay tumhara ko kuch kiya hai. Tum is tara karo, zara hamara pas Dara Adam Khel ao - Chapal kebab khilay ga tum ko. Tumhara sara drama theek ho jai gi.

PS: One more observation!

The three main politicians involved in the 1971 saga, namely, Indra Gandhi, Zulfi Bhutto and Shaikh Mujib, met with a voilent end.

Poetic justice...or mere coincidence???

But then, Yahya Khan died peacefully in his sleep.

Salman,

I wish to commend you for a great piece of balanced writing. The discussion here (surprise ! surprise !) has moved on to the usual Pak-Bharat pissing match, but what else is one to expect?

That all segments of the Pakistani establishment (military, politicians, businessmen, clergy, media etc.) are culpable and participated, in their own way, in the horrid tragedy of 1971 is a foregone conclusion that no one can deny. The fact that no realization of it ever really sunk into the collective psyche is one of my principal reasons for not being optimistic about the future prospects for the rump state of Pakistan.

However, the Indian establishment also shares the blame because of its cynical and opportunistic involvement.

If India`s was a real moral stand and not just current political expedience, then the following would have been done.

Indra Gandhi should have involved the UNO and set up an INTERNATIONAL War Crimes Tribunal and prosecuted the captured Pakistani military high command ALONG WITH criminal elements of the Mukti Bahini (who did similar things on a smaller scale prior to March 25, 1971). That would have been a historical achievement. But the opportunity was squandered and politics was, as always, put ahead of principles.

The other point I wish to raise is about Zulfikar Ali Bhutto`s share of responsibility. Many in Pakistan insist on his innocence. Ras Siddiqui comes to mind as someone who is otherwise very moral, principled and wise but in case of Mr. Bhutto he seems to have a blind spot.

To say that Bhutto was not a part of the establishment and was anti-military is a revisionist view. Let us not forget that after the 1970 elections Mujib`s Awami league got 160 out of 162 seats in the East. Only Raja Tre Dev Roy and Nur-ul-Amin were two non-Awami League MNAs from the East. Yahya Khan set up a puppet civilian government and made poor old Nur-ul-Amin (who was almost 90 and suffered from a lack bladder control, thus constantly needing a nurse attendent) the Prime Minister. He also appointed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. So, there is little doubt on grounds of law, ethics or any other standard that Z. A. Bhutto, by accepting to be Yahya Khan`s de facto prime minister acquiesced to the military policies, and was thus a co-culprit.

…SR

KRashidji,

Re post #155

I completely agree with you on this. I`m glad the devil within us is slowly cooling down & we can agree that our 2 countries need each other, despite all the hurt in our tragic history.

C`mon I know you dont hate Indians or hindus so much:) Otherwise you would`nt trust the life of your wife & children in the hands of hindu doctors!

The devil within you was sufficiently provoked to call us jaanwars & relegate us to the gutter. Whether we provoked you or not is a matter of debate; but its a moot issue.

Shalom!

Arun,

Nationalism, fascism, its all semantics. My point is that Indian secularism is threatened by the BJP. Dilip D`souza is right. When minorities feel insecure in India, its a very bad sign. That is not the India I`m proud of.

Satyavadi,

Maybe I`m splitting hairs, but Ayodhya is not Vatican city or Mecca. Its not like Varanasi , which hindus consider the seat of their religion. Why could`nt they build a Ram mandir just next to the mosque? Whats the big deal? Its not like Ram was born exactly at that spot. The whole sordid affair was a POLITICAL fiasco, in the name of ``religion``.

In any case, let me hug my tree--go find your own to hug :)

KRashid & I differ on many views. But I can empathise with his position that Indians sound holier than thou & hypocritical--especially when they highlight Pakistan`s socio-religious problems & compare it to India`s vaunted secularism.

I think it was Christ who said ``he who has`nt sinned may cast the first stone``. Well we better stop throwing stones at each other & concentrate on the devils within ourselves.

Remember, when we point a finger at someone, there are 3 fingers pointing back at us.

Now let me get off my soapbox, because I dont deserve to stand on one :)

Krashid 155,

Last of the noble souls, you are views are not simple, they are simlistic. Typical, of the pakistanis, ignored the `` contours of peace ` and responded to the trivia. Here is another trivia for you, so that reality is not confronted.

regards

jay.

KEBAB CHOW MEIN,

The peacenicks on both sides have decided to dig into the common heritage, the rotten good for nothing preperation from the nomads of the hindukush, what a great topic to build the future and peace and coexistance, on a uncultured barbaric dish, oozing in the blood of the dead.

The most interesting is the afinity that pakistanis feel to the chinese, oh, they are the most peace loving people, tibet, spartley islands, oh the pakistanis havnt heard of. Read the pak news papres, it is all praise for china.

No cultural linkages, no kebab history. No there is a kebab chow mein, fed in the schools of pakistan, a common heritage, no a common scooling, the lessons of TNT. The heritage of the kabab chow mein.

Re: Shankar #140

First of all the fact that India did not conduct the promised plebiscite in Muslim Kashmir can well be considered the original provocation based on ``might is right`` thereby vindicating allegations that it is the regional bully.

Secondly, if Pakistan provoked India in 1971 by ``sending`` refugees into India by undertaking military action in East Pakistan, then is not India provoking Pakistan today by sending refugees into Pakistan by undertaking military action in Kashmir? By that token,if India could cross the international boundary in 1971, can Pakistan then cross the LOC in 1999?

Thirdly, you are right about USA being the erstwhile sugar daddy of Pakistan, but also USSR was the sugar daddy of India and signed a treaty of friendship and supplied arms right before the 1971 War. Now not only Pakistan`s but India

`s sugar daddy is gone. The sugar daddies are replaced by nuclear bombs. So if one is a mosquito or a monkey or an elephant - doesn`t really matter no more.

Re: satyavadi #154

Now you`re bringing me back to my element. It goes beyond the hypocrisy you point out using the impossibility of a temple near kaaba. Where else in the world do you have two sets of laws for citizens of one country???? In India the leftist-do-nothing-arses have gladly provided them all along for vote banks.

Thought provoking article in The Atlantic.

``http://www.theatlantic.com/cgi-bin/o/issues/2000/09/kaplan.htm``.

Talks about the divide between the areas North &West of Indus and those South and East of Indus, in Pakistan, and how it will cause Pakistan to fail.

I must confess, that after reading about Balochistan and NWPF, their people and the Afghan connection; I felt strangely sympathetic to the Punjabi-Sindhi-Mohajir Pakistanis. Punjabi-Sindhi-Mohajir groups being culturally(in the broad sense) Indian are so much like me and share so much with me, as compared to the Baluchs or the Pushtoons. I really sympathize with you guys the P-S-M Pakistanis. Had it not been for Baluchistan and NWPF, Pakistan would have certainly been a more tolerant and likeable place. Hope you guys get rid of those two provinces, they donot belong to South Asia, unlike Punjab and Sindh. The sooner Pakistan gets dissociated from Afghanistan and the tribals of NWPF and Baluchistan, the better it will be for South Asia.

Seriously, I was surprised by the emotion I felt for the P-S-M Pakistanis after reading this.. Really felt an affinity for you guys/.. Felt like, they were being forced to charter a course, that they are not comfortable with unlike the primitive tribals of Baluchistan and NWPF and Afghanistan.

I know these ramblings of mine do not make much sense. Maybe I need some sleep. Its 3:30 in the night here..

Satyavadi

Shankar #148

The problem of the region in South Asia. Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc is poverty.

The only way to solve it through MUTUAL COOPERATION.

There are many hurdles in its way. Most important is our dependence on West.

With the huge market of probably greater than 15% of world population, even if we invest on infrastructure building, it will provide a very good base for our economic development.

The courage of our people is enormous (not leaders). And also talent.

Repeating the past again and again is not going to solve our problem.

There is no outlet for Pakistan, nor for India.

Neither Pakistan is going to break, nor India, only if we channelize our energies for the betterment of our people. Otherwise, we will be embarking on a path of self destruction.

The problem with Pakistan is as some person said If India farts, Pakistan will do so.

The problem is Pakistan has no other choice.

If India builds its military, for any purpose, Pakistan perceives it as a threat to it. Millions of volumes written against it is not going to change it. Kashmir issue is a big issue for both.

There are some differences, but some similarities between Indians and Pakistanis. To give you an example so that you can understand better. I will go to an Indian (and use to) for a social gathering. But will attend mosque and religious gathering with Arab.

India, Pakistan and other areas have to find a common ground, rather than trying to traverse the contentious ground first.

I think, and I may be wrong. Until and unless Kashmir issue is solved properly, Pakistan cannot embark on any real cooperation with India.

In my thinking this kind of cooperation will be beneficial to Pakistan and much more beneficial to India and for the whole region.

Post #151:

I DO NOT grieve for that dilapidated building which was called the Babri Masjid, in honour, of an INVADER.

Muslims could have been a bit magnaminous and offered to shift the mosque to somewhere in the vicinity with legislation to preclude any other such demands. That would have earned them the goodwill of the rest of the population. But then, the Muslim leadership of India (present or past) has never been known for its foresight or openmindedness.

I do resent, condemn and strongly disapprove of the way the mosque was pulled down, in complete disregard of the law of the land.

Nevertheless, it is a measure of Hindu tolerance or meekness (take your pick) that the mosque existed for more than 500 years and more significantly for 50 years after independence and a bloody partition insisted upon by a segment of Muslims, that purged the Northwest of erstwhile India of Hindus.

Imagine a Hindu temple at Kaba or a mosque in Vatican.

Indian pariticipants on Chowk, enough of hypocrisy and leftist liberalism.

But why am I complaining ? Afterall Chowk staff themselves procalimed Chowk to be left leaning.

Had to say this.

Satyavadi

Shankar: ``On the other hand, columnists like Varsha Bhosle are trying to capitalise on hindu insecurities like Hitler did to the Germans, against the Jews. The problem with democracy is that one has to put up with all kinds of views.``

Varsha Bhosle is just a cyber warrior and is not important in the large scheme of things - much like the large majority of us posting here.

What she seems to be doing is venting a certain hindu anxiety/insecurity. In a strange way, it is good that such feelings get aired in the cyber space. That way she could be confronted head on. (Although my critical letters to Rediff never seem to find the land on the right pixels). She could be doing worse, like starting a riot in Bombay.