1971 in 2000

Pankaj#

Where did I said that Mohammed bin Qasim established Muslim rule in India.

I was just correcting my mathematics/history. That Mahmood Ghaznavi 1857 and Mohammed bin Qasim 3-4 centuries before that by Gymno.

Crypto #67

It looks like that Army leadership wrongly assessed the outcome of election.

Bhutto was new as well as Mujib, as far as I know did not took part in election as a leader of political party.

There were big names in election, like Maulana Bhashani, and Jamat-e-Islami in East Pakistan which were supposed to bag enough seats. In West Pakistan also situation was assesed wrongly.

Re: Satyavadi #74,

Can you also find out the percentage of dhoti clad banias in the Indian Parliament?

PS: Apparently the % of brahmins in the parliament is a good indicator of how badly a government is doing. Below you will find a list of some salient countries with their respective GBCP (Governmental Bhrahminical Contamination Percentage):

Russia - 0%

United States - 0%

India - 14%

Burkina Faso - 0%

Djibouti - 0%

Liechtenstein - 0%

Sao Tome and Principe - 0%

As is evident from the above study, the Indians have a long way to go!

macgupta #81: Your criticism of the Pakistani literature, books and depiction is accurate to some extent.

But I hope you are not implying that the Indian textbooks and media give an accurate picture of the history and affairs of South Asia. In my opinion, the Indian media (Zee TV et al) is equally if not more biased than the Pakistani media. And the Indian media is biased at a greater level, since it reaches more households.

I cannot speak with too much authority on the textbooks. Pakistanis seem quite comfortable criticizing their own curriculum. However, I haven`t seen any criticism of the Indian curriculum by Indians. This could mean that the Indian school curriculum is perfect and is based on historical accuracy (or that Indians do not indulge in self-criticism).

However, I have met more that my share of Indians who still think that India has never invaded Pakistan; Jinnah was the devil; the Indian govt. and military are currently not committing massive human rights violations; India had the welfare of the East Pakistanis in mind in 1971, etc. etc. Where exactly did they pick up the above ideas?

``The truth will set you free.`` Actually, the truth will only show you the path to freedom. It is self-criticism and acceptance of your mistakes that will set you free.

If you are going to critique an issue, please attempt to be more balanced and not completely one-sided.

Re: Truth

Interesting last post.

Re: macgupta

I have seen this site as a reference couple of times- An excerpt:

``But over a period of one thousand years of a dark age, this spirit of humanness was dormant in India; eclipsed as it was under influences which came from the deep recesses of the malevolence in the human mind. That these influences were embodied in invaders from other parts of the globe is only incidental.``

www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/india_contribution/

Anamika #

Thanks for comment.

To add I believe the only treatment for Indians (as gathered from this board) they are badbudar one-liner with hatred for anything related to Islam, Pakistan and Prophet. And persistence of Jahalat. I think the only answer to all this is Jihad.

Jihad is against all superstitions, haughtiness, and Jahalat.

Indians remind me of old time white landlords (at least they should be happy that they are equal to whites in some respect as they are very anxious to get approval of them all the time). Old time white landlords were very proud of their ignorance and would boast that they cannot sign because that is left to inferiors.

Frankly my impression of Indians as gathered from this board is that they are sadist, melancholic and their highest aim in life is to get approval, by downgrading others and upgrading themselves.

A people who cannot laugh and also cannot laugh on themselves are worse than an animal.

Gutter ko kisi nam se pukaro, woh gutter hi rahe ga.

Re to krashid

Oh I understand. When Mr McGupta said `` if we take Mahmud Ghazanvi to 1857`` he must have meant from the period of Ghazanvi(1000 AD) to 1857 and Muhammad bin Quasim 3-4 centuries back of Ghazanvi. At least this was how I interpreted. Inaccurate use of English caused misunderstanding.

rajanjua#

I think Sidharat aka Gotam Budh was born in KapalWastu somewhere in Nepal.

As far as saffron brigade.

Why not use the word fascist brigade?

MacGupta#

After reading various posts by Indians, it looks like Bhutto was pious.

You are not even worth loathing.

Self determination issue is not for Kashmiris.

India is there by force.

India is commiting human right abuses against Kashmiris.

Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris.

Also Assam belongs to Assamese and not Saffron brigade. Tamil belongs to Tamil and not saffron brigade. So are other parts of India.

If a people of an area overwhelmingly reject to live with majority, it is enough reason as a fundamental right.

Not that macguta, kumar sanu and advani decided that Kashmiris have to be with India and that is enough justification for Kashmiris to be part of India.

Listen Indians, you already have lost an important opportunity for the welfare of poor people in your country. Now if you want to play with fire. Play, but don`t burn yourself.

You know what? India has been and is the biggest trouble maker in the whole region of south asia. Being a bully and melancholic and sadist outlook, it wants to impose its rotten culture and outlook on all other countries. Don`t worry your own people will treat you in such a good manner that you will forget Pakistan.

To YLH!

As a solace for being pro-Bhutto.

My father was very anti-Bhutto and was activist in PIACI union of J.I.

When ultimately Bhutto came in power in 1970, he said that whatever Bhutto is, he is a patriot and not traitor.

Although, his words are not political commentary, but but indicates something about him.

His Afghan, Kashmir and Atomic policy are but a few of his directions, in which that great politician of his time wanted to move his country,

re krashid# 93 who, in reference to self-determination, said

``Also Assam belongs to Assamese and not Saffron brigade. Tamil belongs to Tamil and not saffron brigade. So are other parts of India.

If a people of an area overwhelmingly reject to live with majority, it is enough reason as a fundamental right.``

So, when can we expect Pakistan to get out of Baluchistan and Karachi? And, by the way, why is Indian occupied Kashmir called ``held`` while Pakistani occupied Kashmir is called ``azad``?

Humour aside, krashid, for goodness sake don`t you see that unmitigated disintegration of India is but only a prologue to the dismemberment of Pakistan? Only a naive person can think that Tamils and Assamese can have their own states but Baluchis cannot. In the Queen`s English there is a good `ole saying ``What`s good for the gander is good for the goose``.

And, by the way, it smacks of jahalat to speak on India and Indians in terms you have used. India`s problems are many and serious and her human rights record in Kashmir is barbaric. That said, her record of treating her minorities elsewhere, is pretty spectacular compared to her neighbours. Let Pakistan criticise India, in a manly way, when she has elected a couple of Hindu presidents, selected three non-Muslim Chief Justices, and has gotten rid of the ingrained bigotry of disallowing religious minorities to vote for general candidates in national elections.

rashid and others

Take a break from India bashing and dreaming about freeing Kashmiri brothers. It is time to set our own houses right first. An interesting set of articles have appeared today friday 25 August 2000

(a) From the Friday Times

Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report: What does

it really say?

Ejaz Haider says even today we are not drawing

the right lessons from the East Pakistan

debacle

http://server35.hypermart.net/thefridaytimes/ejaz.htm

(b) Ayaz Amir in the Dawn talks of the Intellectual dishonesty and the pausity of intellectual endeavours in our country

A quote from this article

{When we say that the government should come out with the truth about 1971, the Ojhri Camp blasts or the fighting in Kargil we are in fact betraying and revealing the non-existence of any worthwhile intellectual tradition in our country. }

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

Now after reading these articles you still have something interesting to say.........

Re: bahmad #34

Bilal,

Those are vital questions you pose. Given the political history of past 50 odd years, I think we can safely conclude that military is and has been the prime political force in Pakistan since 1950s. And instead of answering your questions, I have some more questions:
When and how was this power sharing arrangement, Azfar is referring to, arrived at? Who were the major players involved in relenting to/agreeing with/approving this arrangement? Is there any literature available on this?
I understand that Banglis did not like this arrangement at all. I can also see why Punjab would not voice too much concern on such an arrangement. But why did politicians/intelligentsia/people in other parts of Pakistan turned a blind eye to it? Why did we (West Pakistani people) give a go-ahead with a wink and a nod when it became imminent that army intended to use all available means at its disposal to crush Bangalis? Did anybody (leaders/citizens/groups/political parties/religious parties included) in West Pakistan voice their concerns? Were people of Sind, Balochistan, and NWFP (by keeping quiet thereby approving what was about to happen to Bangalis) hoping for a better deal with army/punjab once Bangali threat was taken care of?
Should we keep quiet now and remember this event in silence? Can such an event be repeated in existing Pakistan? What do we have to do to ensure that such an event is not repeated again?

A further note - if the state cannot protect individuals and can not seperate itself from the narrow confines of religious bigotry it has no right to exist. Such a house needs to set right first

(a) http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/20000503/iin03050.html

A quote

{

`I saw my brothers being killed in front of me. Many people in this area, mostly Hindus, have adopted Christian names to protect themselves,`` he adds. There is not even a single temple left in entire Lahore.

There was one Jain temple near Lakshmi chowk and another big one at Shalmi Chowk near Anarkali bazaar but both of them were burnt down after the Babri Masjid demolition. Some smaller ones in Krishna Nagar and Shyam Nagar in Chubhurjhi area where also destroyed, recall the 100-odd Hindus, now mostly living in Kashmiri Gate and Andhroon Bhati Gate.

}

No muslim in India has had to under go such a demeaning treatment. And before you say it is from the Indian Express and what else do you expect - just take a breather and think a little deeply about it and reflect on it. Babri Masjid is the only one in 50 odd years, in our land of Pakistan we have destroyed many more than that one in just one year.

The very last traces of our history and culture has been erased from our memories and physically from the geography of the nation. And you guys want to build a nation - a nation which does not remember its history, its culture, its heritage.

Literacy doesnot mean education and we might all be literate and can read, but sadly, we are not educated and that is the sad conclusion many (opinion makers, formers, intellectuals residing outside our land)are coming to.

Learn from the past, do not repeat the past but do not live in a chimeral and make believe past live for the now and achieve for the now.