The Ongoing IT Revolution and Security Implications for Pakistan

Urstruly
Thanks for making it so easy. BTW, how many slaves fit under a rock?

RE: Sadhna# 153

If you and the guys whom you are supporting represent ``....the people who act on their own judgement beyond the reach of a chosen few`s pet moral injunctions``, I would rather live under a rock and be proud of it. Thank you very much.

tahmed321
Thanks but as an Indian at this point in time I would rather do without Pakistani endorsements.

Urstruly, fairdinkum
Wake up and recognise a world where most people act on their own judgement beyond the reach of a chosen few`s pet moral injunctions. Thats a huge percentage, btw much more than 10%.

Sadhana

sadna #133 Glad to see a fellow Indian condemning vsn, rather than keeping silent. I have always believed the divide is not between Indians and Pakistanis, but between hate-filled people and the ``silent majority`` which is the rest of us.

Re Ummair

You made a good point about the employee being king but that sort of got negated about your bs about not many Indians in management positions vs pakistanis.

I don`t know what you base your point on, but if you look at start-ups/entrepreneurship/south asians who graduate from business schools, I don`t know what you`ve been inhaling.

It`s only a matter of time before some nut from your side makes the claim that Pakis make better cabbies only to be retorted by a nut from our side saying that Indians make better newspaper vendors!! :)

I don`t happen to dwell in IT land thankfully and in my line of work, advertising, the ratio of Indian managers to Pakistanis I`ve encountered on the client side at various levels [and none on the ad agency side ever on the management track ever] over the last 15 years is more like 50 to 1 [and that sole Pakistani was a Parsi--go figure!]. But this is based on my experience and specialty alone and who am I to generalize?

Re VSN et al

What one chooses to do in terms of selecting a product based on national origin is one`s own business. It`s the same rationale why many Americans boycotted South African products during the time of Apartheid. In my case, I`m technically a Tamil speaker, but I do go out of the way to boycott Sri Lankan Tamil busineses because I believe that the Tigers are a bunch of evil fascists and they extort money for their cause from all expatriate Sri Lankan Tamils. That is my prerogative.

Ration of Indian programmers to Indian Managers?

Well, somebody should get the data about how many CEOs are Indian or of Indian origin. See, all those IITians and IIMs products are occupying TOP positions in their companies if they have not already become Entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship comes naturally to them and so after working for a while, they float and MANAGE their own comapanies rathen then others.

Re: scout

Stop yo silly gloating about basmati rice. Don`t you know there`s tons of rice grown in southern India...enough to be exported over for me.

Re: All of VSN`s posts

Haha. You crack me up man. If only half the buffoons who`ve got their knickers in a knot would realize how you`re pushing their buttons and prompting redundant 600 word monologues from seeting Pakis.

And for all of Umairr`s rantings about Indians` lack of success beyond IT...Umairr, step out of your little server and router room in the back sometime and look up a few of the top management consulting and investment banking firms. Last time I checked (being in the industry), there were more Indian managing directors and partners there than Chinese ones! Hell, McKinsey`s CEO is Indian!

I have some comments to make

I tend to agree that % of Indian managers may be less. This could be on account of

a) tendency of senior Indian IT professionals to return home when their kids are in 5-6 years age group. Quite a few of my friends have come back. And they have found good jobs back home in India. This is to protect their kids from doing drugs, sex and other not so good influences of US of A. I dont think there are any such opputunites for Pakis back home.

b) further , the Indian IT community do tend to look down on `Managers` who usually work on MS- project, WOrd , Powerpoint, meetings, presentation etc etc .... Not exactly what challenges the Indians. Though this is a fairly myopic view.

c) Intrinsically, I think the South asians with their typical culture ( inability to work as a team etc etc) make poor managers. ( smelling of racial bias!!!!?)

However, the overall thrust of the article was poor. Pakis can do well in IT and earn $$$ irrespective of how India is doing. The software cake is very very big.

However, linked to the success of IT is a whole lot of other socio-economic-cultural issues.

Why is Pakistan with mountains, lakes etc etc is not doing well in tourism??? because for tourism to succeed there must be peace within the country (not coups, firings, AK 47 totting jehadis strutting around). The roads must be good, there should be safety etc etc.

similarly it is not sufficient that because there is talent in Pakistan , IT will succeed.

This article has nothing to do with IT. It could have been the cement or the batata-wada business. When Indians do well, it does not mean Pakistan(is) will be at the losing end.

My two-cents :

Stick to your strengths - whether it be selling sugar or stitching footballs or whatever. Soon you will make a name for yourselves and once your self esteem as a nation grows, these anti-India feelings can be exorcised.

If you do want to compare yourselves to others, select someone of your own size. For eg, with respect to Burma or Sri Lanka, you guys are doing really well.

In the future, I hope to see a strong India acting as a protector/powerhouse for South Asia, which will mean all types of benefits - economic, political, military etc. for all our neighbours.

Suppose that vsn, Jay, RSaxena and some others are representative of a small minority of Indians; let us say about 10% of the population, then the number of bigots in India approxamately equals the total population of Pakistan. If only 5% of those 10% are in a position of authority the number exceeds the total number of bureaucracy in Pakistan.

That pretty much explains why the Sword of Democlese is always hanging on top of our heads-Pakistan, Indian Muslims, Kashmiris, Sri Lakans, Bangladeshis and the world peace.

PS: The gutters of chowk stink.

The gutters has been stinking for quite some time now.. I am surprised you didn`t get the stink before.

I guess Indians don`t take criticism too well.. So from here on, I will stick to criticising Pakistan and Pakistanis.

Re vsn

What vsn says he does with resumes is totally unprofessional and unethical. It doesnot matter how much money his employer or the US makes off him, he is betraying their trust by passing off his own prejudices as company`s policy. I condemn him for this. His generalizations about who can work with whom are also despicable, its seems so far from the general experience about NR Indians and Pakistanis that the rest of his stands seem spurious,too.

But the self-critical Pakistani responses to both Ramesh and vsn are also extremely revealing. Boycotting Pakistani goods is unfair, supporting `armed jihad` against India is fair? Pakistani basmati rice makes up Indian flesh-and-blood we are reminded, but many thousand years of common history donot contribute a milligram of anything Indian (forget about humanities, lets stick to biology) to Pakistani flesh-and-blood?

And welcome to the real world where public opinion cannot be ignored.

Sadhana
PS: The gutters of chowk stink.

Ummair

“

I do not agree with this. The ratio of Indian managers to Indian programmers/entrepreneurs in the US IT industry is very very low. While Indians have had a lot of success as IT entreprenuers, they are highly under-represented (or have highly under-performed; take your pick) in management (one only needs to read your reply to find out why). The ratio of Indian programmers to Indian managers is extremely low. (quite a bit lower than than the ratio of Pakistani programmers to Pakistani managers). This has been recognized by many IT magazines like Fortune, etc. “

This is a crude attempt to put a spin that Indians don`t make very good managers. Whereas, the ratio of Pakistani managers is higher compared to Pakistani developers.

The fact is that Indians have been coming here on H1`s in more numbers every succeeding, which means that there are progressively more newcomers to the US market than the established people. It should be noted that a person with experience in India doesn’t straight away become a manager, as some US experience is required for that. So, the proportions theory suggested by Ummair has nothing to do with native Indian managerial talent.

A case in point, I met someone yesterday, age 37, 12 years in IT, last Job in Delhi as Project manager for a team of 40. Came here last December started as a programmer now leads a team of 2, including himself.

Ummair suggests that Pakistan produces more managers than programmers; This is probably something Pakistan should remedy - ASAP.

-Vicky

vsn #123:

[``I thought pakistanis dont care much for the law. Oh sorry that is in pakistan.``]

well, not really it seems.i just read about the gang of pak army band that gave the slip in new york four days ago, and still remain at large... hmmmmm hillarious these guys... what next ? fireworks in long island soon and statements of `purely indegenous development` from islamabad ?

Zahra #135,

Good response! (no sugarcoating here) I`m sure VSN will squirm in his chair when he reads it.

sincerely

scout