The Ongoing IT Revolution and Security Implications for Pakistan

Re: Fairdinkum #104,

Regarding your lament that Indians are not admonishing this vsn character, see my posts #88, 89.

Re: Umairr #98,

You said: ``While Indians have had a lot of success as IT entrepreneurs, they are highly under-represented (or have highly under-performed; take your pick) in management (one only needs to read your reply to find out why)``.

So the great/ rational/ unbiased/ patient Umairr is asserting that the reason why Indians don`t do well as managers is because they are all like vsn!! That they all can`t make business decisions separate from personal political views!

You sir, based on vsn`s (suspiciously fictional) post have derived the reason why Indians are not successful as managers. This betrays your true nature!!

And when some moron from India makes a stupid hateful remark...Why do some Pakistani`s have to take pot shots at all Indians and India?? How the F_CK is this guy a representative of my entire country, religion & culture?? The same applies to Indians. When some mouth frothing Paki puts out a call to put all kaffirs to sword.... DONT TAKE POT SHOTS AT PAKISTAN!! Criticize the moron who makes a hateful statement... not his maan, bahen, bhai, prime-minister, clergy, religion, constitution....

WHAT THE F_CK IS WRONG WITH YOU??

And while I`m at it...What is with this stupid assertion that people like Umairr and Fairdinkum make all the time? That Pakistanis are more balanced and un-biased than Indians???

Do you see how stupid that sounds? Of course you think Indians are biased and Pakistanis are not! That`s because you are a Pakistani and BIASED!! Every single person here who claims moral superiority over the other is biased!! Wonder why normally intelligent and articulate people make such daft remarks!

STOP HATING!! ACT NORMAL!!

PS: pardon the all caps.

. . . actually, dear Sac, the reference to sac was not paticular but testicular . . . never mind . . . on second thought, yes, we in India WOULD like a vassal state, but to qualify they would have to give us booze, beaches, mountains, good weather, skimpily dressed women of loose morals and tight halter tops, casinos, free currency, and most of all this vassal state would be like Amsterdam in some ways . . . so i guess that leaves you pakistanis out . . . too bad . . .

scout #95

:Hmmm, could I have your real name and the company you work for, or God forbid you own?

God did not forbid. Infact he has been very kind to indians like myself. But am I mad to give my name and my company name on public boards where pakis maybe present? I will be a dead man.

:I know plenty of Pakistani laywers in NY who`d love to get a piece of you, granted you, as you describe yourself, even EXIST.

I thought pakistanis dont care much for the law. Oh sorry that is in pakistan. When they are abroad they want to enjoy full benifit of the law and help their jihadist military maddog spread more anarchy.

:If only the US government knew what the worth of racist desis like you who come here with the letters IT stamped on your forehead was...

US govt made so much money on me it is not even funny. I am not a racist. Pakis are the same race as me. I am just a pragmatist. They dont work well with indians. Maybe when I find an arab software design team I will ask them if they want a paki.

MY responses are being censured in the great mullah tradition of pakistan. If this does not make it too, i give up. All I say is - you cant escape the consequences of your govt actions. By antagonizing 1/6th of humanity you can not live peacefully. To atone for your sins, lobby for democracy in pakistan, lobby to get rid of all madarassas and modernize school system, have a board of experts and agree on common history and drop those funny arab names and have some decent sanskrit names:) hindus dont have anything against islam. if you have sanskrit names they will think that your alla is another avatar of vishnu and will start going to your mosques. If you sit on your fat asses implicitly condoning whatever madmush does, then you deserve what you get. you have BAD KARMA and it will haunt you in this life and the next.

Re to scout #108

Dear Scout

I clarified that I have nothing against a common Pakistani who might be very much like me. And I am not ashamed to be a part Pakistani if this is what you imply by eating Basmati rice. I detest Pakistani military and ISI who attack us and kill innocent people. I detest ``Mujahidins`` who use terror as a weapon to enforce their rule. And what you will say about the mutilated body of Capt. Saurabh Kaliya whose sexual organs were dismembered one by one after he was caught POW by Pakistanis. And Pakistani Govt who refused even to accept dead bodies of its own soldiers leaving it for the Indian forces to bury them with all respect. And I have my own way of protesting against all this which I think unjust. It is a non violent non cooperation by free will. And I was not misled by media `coz I was closely asssociated with someone who lost his life in Kargil. I repeat, it is directed against Pakistani military rulers and not Pakistani people. And I do not believe in going on a killing spree. Violence begets violence. I have chosen to punish myself by denying luxuary of eating excellent Pakistani non veg food and cheaper Basmati rice. There are some very sensible Pakistanis here Ferozk and SameerJB to name a few( along with not so smart ones like Krashid(remember badboodar Indians), Hamidm, ylh etc). I wish such sensible people head Pakistani govt so that the perpetual violence in the subcontinent could be ended and Pakistan/India look forward to a prosperous future. Amen.

Re: Jay # 115

Thanks for the clarification and no, I did not take the words personally. Incidentally, why post it here? I thought that debate was in another interact forum for another article?

Ciao!

Shankar,
aap kehtay hain tu rakh layta hoon wapas :)
I stand corrected! And happy to be proven wrong.

Fairdinkum,

{{The disturbing aspect of all this is that I don’t see any Indian telling this bloke that what he is doing is unacceptable behaviour. This is in sharp contrast to Pakistanis who, by and large, are more balanced and unbiased in their criticism.}}

Whoa mere bhai:) Put your gun back in your holster. I know everyone is getting emotional here. When you make such generalisations because youre hurt, you become vulnerable to the same prejudices you find unacceptable.

After all, I`m as much a Pakistani as you are the Pope :)

gymnosophist # 85,

why the hell are u trying to get religion in between of nationality. and why is it that all u pakistanis so easily forget that there are over 200 million muslims in india?????

i`m not in favour of what vsn is doing, but that doesn`t mean that he is discriminating against muslims. did he say anywhere in his reply that he threw out the applications of those who were muslims???? i don`t think so. so for god`s sake please stop confusing your selves between religion and nationality.

and all those pakistanis who r critical of vsn and ramesh for what they r doing, i sincerely advise u to meet some of the widows of the soldiers who died in kargil. if indians had done the same to your people....take it from me written down, all u pakistanis would be doing the same what ramesh and vsn are doing. infact, i appreciate their guts to say something like this in a public board like chowk.

forget all this....your govt. didn`t even have the decency to accept the bodies of their dead soldiers.

devkant.

Feroz,

Pl donot take my comments personally and it is for that reason I avoid one-to-one exchanges after I had a very legthy one with bilal ahmed a few years ago. Your post was used only as a devise to generalise and I fully recognise that the resulting generalisation may not be applicable to you at an individual level.

By the way, it is interesting to note that of late the dawn reports only deaths on the pak side of the border. Deaths on the indian side is not reported, strange, the supportes of jihad are not getting the feed back.

So back to the point, I am yet to meet a bad pakistani, but the collectve pakistan of vanishing hijackers, kargill and jihadic infiltrators is a different matter.

regards and best wishes.

Jay.

DEATH OF GENIOUS,

The attack on vsn by the all and sundry prove one thing, none of them had been in a position of financial responsibility. When one has to achieve bottom lone results on projects nebulous definition, the last thing one wants is interpersonal problems among the staff. It is true that through out the world indo-pak relations reached the lowest ebb at the time of kargill. In the US, the indians were visible in their anti pakistani stand. The actions of vsn is something which any one who had been in a responsible positon will understand.

I had been to most of the asian countries on `missions` for international organisations, pakistan is the only coutry I was specifically told not to visit because of the perceived hostility of the pakistanis. When their were visits to several countries, people were specifically told not to let the pakistani counter parts know that they are coming from India. In some cases staff were asked to go to singapore from delhi and take a flight to pakistan. This was more than a decade ago. It is a common practice in international organisations to look into the nationalities to avoid potential conflicts. The seating of the delegates, election of the chairman and other oficials of the meeting etc have strong nationality considerations.

I recognise that in international organisations, positions taken are that of formal government, but considerations of nationality should not be labelled as jingoistic, it could just be prudent management.

The world is increasingly recognising that the emphesis need to be on team work, the genious are long dead. A harmonious team could just be what is needed, not some alleged political correctness. If a pakistani genious is bypassed so be it, there is at least a dynamic team. Oh, pak genious, I like to see that. Then again, who master minded the hijack.

Zahra (#93)

I am sorry to learn about the demise of Dr. Mahboob ul Haque. I had the honor of listening to his lectures and engaging with him in group discussions in seventies. I was deeply impressed by Dr. Haque and always thought of him to be above politics, and extremely knowledgeable and unassuming.

Assad_K (#103)

Late Dr. Haque himself narrated this Indira Gandhi incidence. As much as I can recall according to him, Indira Gandhi was attacked from both left and right sides in the parliament for adopting his paper without modifications as the economic policy, but she fought such attacks and defended her action and decision. May be someone else at Chowk may knew Dr. Haque more than I did and may have heard more about this incidence from Dr. Haque.

I always understood that Dr. Haque visited India several times. However I cannot vouch for it and neither can I say that Indira Gandhi invited him. I moved onto greener pastures of high technology, Silicon Valley and Harvard Business School a long time ago. Again someone else can tell us more about Dr. Haque`s experience about Indian economy. I somehow recall him to be more concerned about basic economic issues like poverty, literacy etc. as being root causes in South Asia in general, rather than as someone confined to the boundary of a country. This could explain (assuming you are implying that he did not succeed as the finance minister of Pakistan) why he might not have liked politics in that part of the world.

On your point about nuclear deterrent. As I recall, MAD was the successor nuclear doctrine of NATO. SALT II, the last nuclear treaty emerged as a result of MAD doctrine to eliminate reliance on nuclear deterence. Senior Indian policy makers I have opportunity to informally interact on nuclear deterrent against China, know that India cannot build any credible deterrent against China on nulcear basis alone. You`ve to read Fernandes, Vajpayee and Advani together to figure what is really meant. You cannot accept Fernandes on China alone. Also you may be very surprised to discover how quickly China and India are trying to move to solve border problem through bilateral negotiations.

I feel that currently a lot of posturing is going on between Pakistan and India in the press, while Tack II is very active.

On a side issue, Umairr must not get riled up by some Indian jibes at Chowk. From what I have read of his interactions, Umairr is the kind of Pakistani, sensible Indians would want to lead Pakistan, and South Asia. Umairr should rest assured there are many more Indians like him too to complement. Just keep persist on your message.



ANIL KAPURIA

Anil@Kapuria.COM

Urstruly Reply #: 81

``THE MYTH OF PAKISTANI ECONOMY in SHAMBLES``

Right. Bankruptcy of the government need not mean bankruptcy of the people.

However, I can only agree with you partially. The govt is a major player in the economy as it is the biggest spender of money. If it has less money to spend, it means less investment in social sectors (education, health, sanitation etc) which impacts people`s lives directly.

If it is a myth that the Pakistani economy is in shambles, it has to be shattered with facts. I dont know the numbers for Pakistan, but you could find out what is the GDP growth today compared to the past, rate of growth of agriculture sector, industrial production, imports/exports, unemployment and other indicators of the economy.

From what I remember of economics, if the govt has no money to spend but does not mend its spending ways, it will mop up the available resources in the economy (through taxes, govt debt, increasing prices etc), thereby reducing resources available for investment and growth of the economy.

Of late, Pakistan has become a net exporter of foreign currency, meaning that it is paying out more (debt repayment) than what it is receiving (debt, foreign investment, non-resident Pakistani repatriation), which surely is a negative indicator of the economy.

On a slightly different note, jobs in one sector have a multiplier effect on the whole economy. For eg, if there are 100 IT jobs done locally within the country, then that would mean more jobs created in housing the 100 guys, their spending on food, clothing, entertainment etc which helps the local economy. If the same 100 guys go and work in the US, apart from the brain drain, all these support jobs and services also are created in the US, not in the local economy. Despite the value of forex sent by these folks to the home country, and their political clout in the US, I would still think the local country would be better served if the jobs were retained locally, assuming such job opportunities exist in the first place.

I see only one solution.

Pakistan should declare IT to be Islamic Technology and mandatory for every Muslim. (Some countries call this education). It should be taught in Arabic to challenge the dominant Satanic English it now thrives in.

Re to Umair

Dear friend

I do not have any hatred for Pakistanis or Muslims in general. Afterall a common Pakistani is also a human like me and ``usne mera kya bigada hai``. If I do not like anything it is Pakistani military, and government. And I will NEVER discriminate on the basis of nationality. If a Pakistani is fit for a job why should he be denied. I was also in his position once. What if someone had done the same with me! But boycotting of Pakistani goods is a voluntary activity because I am afraid this money will be used to train terrorists and later push them across the border to perpetrate heinous crimes in the name of Islam. It is non cooperation by free will

as once adopted by Gandhiji to protest against whatever you think unjust. But the means adopted will be fair. And if I resort to unethical ways like depriving a Pakistani of his well deserved job, it will only defeat my purpose. Regarding Siachin, I think it was nobody`s teritory unlike Kargil and both India and Pakistan attempted to occupy it. Two peaks are still with Pakistan and one is with India. India is holding it despite huge expensesin doin so, since Pakistan can use it to launch offensive against India in conjunction with China. I am not in favor of any bloodshed. Live and let live. Some people on this site have suggested LoC to accept as an international border. A good solution to Kashmir problem if so happens. I am not interested in harming a Pakistani but ISI and Pakistani military rulers.The day peace is established between both the countries and I am assured that Pakistani Govt is not misusing money to train terrorists across the border my boycott will be over. Afterall some other needy fellow across the border might also be benefitting if we buy Pakistani goods.

PS I think Indian press to be more reliable than Pakistani one though not as much as independent press of some other countries since Indian press is free and not controlled by Govt.

Umairr #75:

[``Maybe it makes sense for Pakistan to give its textile industry more importance than IT. Or maybe it makes sense to give IT more importance than textile. ``]

good to see that someone is even prepared to look outside of IT for a source of development. the mad rush to become coding drones here in india might slowly be creating an ozone hole on the talent pool of other `conventional` areas. with all energy focussed on IT, ther`s hardly any talk of maintaining, let alone improving, the skill base in other fields. the signs are ominous and may be it wont be long before we start to feel the heat there.

Ramesh,

By the way, the Pakistani Basmati Rice that you did eat before Kargil was used by your body to make various body tissues and proteins, some of them permanent (the neurons of your brain, no kidding).

So Ramesh, whether you like it or not, you are part Pakistani. Digest that thought.

scout