The Ongoing IT Revolution and Security Implications for Pakistan

vsn #77 :

Boy!, it really takes something to admit such a thing so brazenly in this forum. just wondering how many of your comrade worms we might be having in india itself who`d throw away a resume just because they didn`t like the person`s religion, language, native place or college whatever....

For Scout

I was wondering if Scout has suddenly stopped scouting because there was no message posted from your side for a few days in response to this Article. What a relief you are alive! But why have you subdued suddenly? Such nice, polite, humourous messages and no kick below the belt for Indians! Keep smiling and laughing!

India`s IT boom is a threat to Pakistan !!!!!
By your mentality level what is good for an Indian is a direct threat to a Paki.

Good Lord Shiva what next ?

Who knows maybe IT is a Hindutva conspiracy ?
Don`t you see most of the IT beneficiaries are Hindus ? In fact, maybe they are denying Muslims the right to Computers. Hey it may even be those Brahmins safe guarding all these secrets. Kashmiris are definitely being denied IT education. This is a definite case for Jehad. Islam to, in general, khatre mieN hai hi in this case. Everything in the article is good for phase II of Jehad. Phase I is already under way BOMBING (good old RDX puraani expertise !!). Maybe ISI could target IT companies instead of ....... and build wireless services to detonate bombs in India. Maybe you could have GPS websites letting you pinpoint placements of bombs in India.

Arrrrgghhhh, what the hell is wrong with you ? You are an education gone wrong. Think of the IT boom as an oppurtunity for Pakistan. Where does India come into the picture vis-avis IT in Pakistan and that too in a negative way. The biggest markets are in US, Europe, etc. Open your bloody mind up and try and think bigger and positive. Your negative aura is killing me.
Utth sac sutteya, duniya wekhan jaa, jeh koi milda unhanu baksh de, te tu bhi baksha jaa. Flush your mind.
But I guess this may be a way to explain things to Gurnel Saab Malizada Chief Executive.

Seriously, Pakis the real threat comes from Hindi movies. You guys should seriously think about not watching them. Have you even see how Hindi movies undermine the very existence of Pakistan ? Think about it. Way bigger than IT threat.

What next maybe an article on that ?

regards

Re: Ramesh #96 VSN # 77

Ramesh/VSN,

You guys are pathetic! People like you (on both sides of the border) are responsible for Kargil, Siachin, Kashmir, Golden temple, massacre of Sikhs in Delhi, murders of innocent Christian missionaries, oppression of minorities in both India and Pakistan and many more such problems that currently overwhelm us in the sub-continent.

Umairr, you have been very patient in your responses, but it is increasingly becoming obvious that most Indians on this site have very limited intellectual capability. It is a waste of time trying to get them to understand the bigger picture. Vsn is another example. He has brought his baggage of hatred and discrimination from India to US. And he proudly admits to his illegal, immoral, and unethical practices.
The disturbing aspect of all this is that I don’t see any Indian telling this bloke that what he is doing is unacceptable behaviour. This is in sharp contrast to Pakistanis who, by and large, are more balanced and unbiased in their criticism.

(apologies if this reply goes off the topic, or riles up anyone too much)

VSN re:94

(I am yet to see a paki who is critical of his religion or government.)

I`ll assume this was humorous.

VSN re:77

(. It is a tough world to be

a paki, i just wish they stop passing off as indians. )

Ummm.. what? Are you saying that people keep mistaking Pakistanis for Indians, or that `Pakis` try to pass themselves off as Indians? If the former, I`ll try to contain my amazement.. if the latter, then this is the second time I`ve heard this being flogged with great authority, and wonder just where this has happened..!

Anil re:91

(Indira Gandhi`s government took this paper and without changing any words, adopted as official Indian policy. )

Hmmm... did Mahbubul Haque act that effective when he WAS Pakistans finance minister? I`m curious.. did Mrs Gandhi also make it publicly known that she was using a Pakistanis theories for her finance startegy ? Would she have dared?

(I cannot say the same for any Pakistani general, President or Prime Minister who was ever able to even welcome Amartaya Sen, now a Nobel Prize winner for development economy. )

And again.. did she invite Dr Haque over to see his ideas put into practice? I believe Mr (Dr.?) Sen is strong on power being delivered to the people themselves.. which may be the big push for devolution in PK. (`course, i may be totally up the wrong tree about Mr Sen`s theories, so please don`t crucify me too much about my ignorance!).

(Indian policy makers know it, and have offered not to exercise first use. Pakistani generals in my view are driven by what I have earlier called emotionalism and have yet to offer the same. )

Check on NATO`s policy of flexible deterrence. And has India offered the same to China?

ramesh #96, `` I decided not to buy any Pakistani product lest Pakistani govt will use this money to launch another such attack on India.``

Good. More Shan Masalay and cheaper Basmati rice for us! YEAHHHHHHHHH!

vsn,

To exclude a person because of his/her nationality is abhorrant. I think you better grow up & leave your petty prejudices at home & not bring it to the office.

I`ll bet someone like you would squeal like a banshee if an American excluded you from a job, based upon the color of your skin & nationality.

Ramesh #96: It is quite sad to see the one-sided attack of Indians on Pakistan after Kargil. How come none of them mention Siachin, which was the predecessor of Kargil. Pakistan moved out of Kargil, but India is still in Siachen, and has been occupying a portion of it against the Simla Agreement, for 16 years. Yes 16 years. There is an active battle going on there, as we speak.

Indians need to be far more balanced in their arguments. It amazes me that Indians base their decisions to buy groceries on their one-sided view of Indo/Pak conflicts. It also amazes me how quickly Indians believe their country`s propoganda machinery. Why doesn`t the Indian media mention Siachen? After all, there is an active hot Indo/Pak battle going on there. Every Indian knows the details of Kargil; why don`t they know about Siachen? If you are going to criticize military actions, then please be even-handed in your criticism. Criticise actions from India`s side also.

From the comments of Indians on this site, it seems like it is alright for India to attack Pakistan, but not vice-versa. Pakistanis are still buying Indian groceries, and attempting to talk to India and Indians, even though Indian forces are still sitting on Siachen. Don`t you think a 16 year long aggression is more costly and destructive than a few month long aggression (which wouldn`t have occurred had India not invaded Siachen).

Pakistan had been offering India a bilateral withdrawl from Siachen for a decade. India kept refusing, because it felt a stalemate was costing Pakistan far more. That was the whole purpose of India occupying Siachen. There is absolutely nothing else there, and it had been quite peaceful before India started a battle there. Pakistan attempted to cut the Indian lines of communications at Kargil.

Look at the whole scenario, and then comment. If Pakistanis started showing the same kind of short-sightedness on Indo/Pak conflicts and became victims of their own media (like most Indians), then I am afraid, India and Pakistan have had it.

Either criticize both military actions (like I do, and many Pakistanis do), or crticize neither; or accept the fact that you are biased.

re umairr:

Dear Umair:

I am picking on you because your posts have brought up some very pertinent points.

Here is why PTCL will not be privatized anytime soon.The Pakistani govt. hired Goldman Sachs in early 98 with the intention of offering a 20% stake for foreign investors. BTW PTCL GDRs(Global Depository Receipts) already are available whereby the Pakistani govt. had divested a 10% stake earlier. Goldman found two very interested buyers and valuation was put at around $7 billion.The Pakistani side insisted it was worth more like $11 billion.60% of PTCL revenues come from the United States(whenever you call someone in Pakistan most of the money goes not to MCI or AT&T but PTCL) a revenue stream in which one of the suitors was very interested in.To put the period in context telecom companies were scrambling to build up muscle globally and developing world telecoms were all the rage because of their monopolistic characteristics. Things changed with the increasing emphasis on wireless assets.Something we see all over the world today. In Pakistan the military took over and they still retained Goldman for advice(which BTW pocketed a cool $20 million for its services). All of a sudden both the suitors were gone.A second tier Asian company was interested but the vlaue it put on the 20% stake was $200 million which meant that PTCL was now worth only a billion dollars.Can you imagine the political fallout if the govt. sold its `crown jewel` for one-tenth of what a democratically elected govt. would have gotten? Even the generals can`t get away with nine billion dollars :)

PTCL has now shifted its emphasis to providing wireless services for which it is spinning off a separate subsidiary.All privatization plans have been shelved for the foreseeable future.

You as well as several other Pakistanis have made much of its nuclear capability.Here is what you are forgetting. In any offensive stance wrt to a potential enemy you have to not only consider the damage you can inflict on the other side but more importantly you have to consider potentially your own casualties.Lets for argument`s sake consider that a conventional war breaks out in Azad Kashmir. The only option Pakistan has it to use its bomb on some major Indian city. Stop and think for a minute. Any Pakistani leader(no matter how rabid) who gives the go-ahead would in in essence be signing Pakistan`t death warrant because of the ensuing overwhelming Indian response.Needless to say both sides will continue to fight a conventional war where once again India has the upper hand(we`ve tried that route 4 times already).To expand on Anil`s post earlier on MAD, one would only use the nuclear trigger if one were assured of completely taking out the other side preemptively. In 1971 all the Indian policy makers and the generals wanted to finish off West Pakistan after the East Pakistan surrender. The only statistic that deterred Indira Gandhi was a number thrown at her as potential Indian casualties per Pakistani city conquered---30,000 Indians.Nuclear weapons will not result in reduction in the defence budget.

You have also argued in your posts about looking at our economic objectives without regard to India. Here is some news for you. Despite the best of efforts of the politicians our economies our inextricably linked. Here is a guaranteed way to make some easy money. Just watch for the devaluation of the Indian rupee and when it happens immediately short the Pakistani rupee. Within one week the Pakistani rupee will be devalued too.This happened in the last month also. Both countries compete for the same products(textiles,carpets,surgical goods etc.) in the global markets.They cannot afford to pursue trade strategies without looking at what the other is doing. Here are some statistics for you.

India needs 170,000 megawatts of power generation capacity by the year 2010. To get an idea of how much that would cost, Enron`s plant in Dhabol which cost $3 billion will produce just 2400 megawatts. India needs $137 billion in the next five years to upgrade its ports and establish new ones along its coastline.In communications it needs $150 to $175 billion to get to the developing world standard of six telephones/100 people(from its current 0.8/100 people). India also needs $35 billion for 14000 kilometers of roads. This money is not available in the public kitty. India will have to tap domestic and global capital markets. This is the chance Pakistan has to seize.If it can become a partner instead of an adversary all the better for both. The gas pipeline from Iran and sale of hydroelectric power are all realistic options.Think about China and its supposedly adversarial relations with Taiwan(which btw seems similar to your comparisons between Pakistan and India). Here is how Taiwan has assured its security. 40% of all foreign investment in China comes not from USA or UK or Japan, it comes from Taiwan. Pakistan needs to cement economic ties with India in the same way. I don`t see any other way of ensuring its security and reaping huge benefits for its people.

later

-sac

vsn #77: ``most IT jobs involve at least one interview by an Indian.``

I do not agree with this. The ratio of Indian managers to Indian programmers/entrepreneurs in the US IT industry is very very low. While Indians have had a lot of success as IT entreprenuers, they are highly under-represented (or have highly under-performed; take your pick) in management (one only needs to read your reply to find out why). The ratio of Indian programmers to Indian managers is extremely low. (quite a bit lower than than the ratio of Pakistani programmers to Pakistani managers). This has been recognized by many IT magazines like Fortune, etc.

The number of Indians I have interviewed is getting close to three figures. The number I have hired or recommended for hiring is well into the double figures. I have myself been only interviewed by perhaps two or three Indians.

Due to high number of Indians at the programmer level in the US IT industry, on an individual level, the average Pakistani interviews far far more Indians than vice-versa.

VSN #77

Without making any comments about your personal likes and dislikes, I would like to ask - is it not illegal in the United States to base your hiring practices on national origin?

Well vsn is not a unique case. After Kargil war, in which I tried my best to contribute what I can afford towards the widows of jawans who died in the battlefield my vision of Pakistan changed completely. I decided not to buy any Pakistani product lest Pakistani govt will use this money to launch another such attack on India. For example, I used to buy Pakistani Basmati which costs almost half that of Indian Basmati, but I decided to buy Indian one after Kargil. Also I stopped visiting Pakistani restaurants for the same reason. I believe that Indians are probably the biggest buyers of Pakistani products at least in USA. If we instead buy Indian products, we can at least contribute to our country to a minor extent. And I was not alone. Many of my friends voluntarily joined me in this Pakistani boycott. It continues till date. In retrospection, I think I never used to pay any attention to Kashmir and Pakistan before Kargil, but after Kargil it was a complete turnaround. Especially, the barbaric acts of Pakistani military in which they cut off his reproductive organs.

vsn #77, ``Nowadays if i see a resume with even a mention of pakistan involved i just throw

it in garbage and moveon. I rejected a lot of people like that solely because they are pakistani.``

Hmmm, could I have your real name and the company you work for, or God forbid you own? I know plenty of Pakistani laywers in NY who`d love to get a piece of you, granted you, as you describe yourself, even EXIST.

If only the US government knew what the worth of racist desis like you who come here with the letters IT stamped on your forehead was...

Once again to clarify myself:

If pakis want to be buddies with Indians in US where it suits them

and enmies in south asis where it does not - sorry it does not work that way.

Every action has a consequence and you have to take responsibility for your actions (oryour governments actions). I am yet to see a paki who is critical of his religion or government. Even well educated paki physicians are raising

money for the madarasas but they want all indian physicians to be friendly

to them and help them. And if they dont they are petty minded and prejudiced.

When you give so much grief to India everyday tying our army down, terrorising

our civilians, please be prepared for their wrath all over world. If you cant

take the heat, influence your govt to be friendly to India. When i see sincere

efforts on overseas pakis in this direction i will change. Until that time

i am not helping no damn paki!

Anil:

His name was Late Dr.Mahboob-ul-Haq[Economist/World Bank]

VSN:

Your Vichaa`r are certainly very Mahaa`n!
Mubrook Mubrook Mubrook!!!

Well, it is your prerogative to have or not to have certain people in your life.

In my 5 years in Management Consulting(With Big 5 & Tech Consulting Firm), I have interviewed Indians and have been interviewed by one Indian, I have yet to come across anyone with the level of pathos and ethos, I find in your words. Keep it Up!

I think Sac has very clearly delineated his reason for bringing the mention of India, after that it should be Khaa`laa`s[End of Discussion]and move on!

Take Care