The Ongoing IT Revolution and Security Implications for Pakistan

sac #37:

[..... India was used as a convenient vehicle to provoke action, hence the ``jingoistic`` tone of the article...... AND .... Pakistan needs to harness that obsession with India for its own good.]

I understand where you are coming from sac, but I still strongly disagree with your approach.


taimurmalik # 49, 50, 51, & 52.

[Alas..this is why our common man can never stand up..rather than encouraging them to lookout for the world of opportunities that await them..you journalists choose to discourage them but telling them all the scary stories and myths that this is not gonna work..that is not gonna work...this government is a loser...the IT policy is a farce..India is going to eat you up...and all the crap...] and [......If you don`t like them up there then go out..work harder and try to outshine them...you have all my best wishes!]

hear -- hear! I applaud your thinking young man.

You have the right attitude. And if other young men there share your vision then there is still some hope left.

regards,

t

UMAIR # 36
Umair thanks for writing your post.

SAC # 37

I suggest that you stay away from Zionists and their ideology. Anything that a ``visionary`` says is not necessarily true. Common sense rules.

FerozK

Read this and eat your heart out, Dr. Kivorkian.

THE NEWS
Internet facility to be extended to 270 cities soon: Dr. Atta


ISLAMABAD: Minister for Science and Technology Dr. Atta ur Rehman has said that the Internet facility will be extended to 270 cities and villages across the county in the next two months.

He said that the Internet in Pakistan was limited to only 29 cities which had been extended to 92 cities and villages. The Minister said this work was done on an emergency basis and Internet cafes were being set up at various district post offices and petrol stations throughout he country.

Taimurmalik #52

Malik Sahib! aap to aisay nah thay. Hain Ji?

Anyway, since you are out of closet now, please accept my warmest welcome. It is never too late:)

AN EDUCATED MIND

I have been aluding to this for so long, never has come such a frank admission from an educated pakistani. Yes, an anglicised, most probably based in the west has summed the pakistani mind, to get some response from them it is important to couch any thing in a `threat from india` perspective.

Here what is important is the view of the educated, they are the one fomenting the paranoia, the hatred. These are pakistanis, post independance generation, all hell bent on passing the venom, using the new language, using the new medium.

These are the mullahs of the chowk, mullahs of the west, while thier counterparts in the madrassa are sending the jihadists to kill. It is these mullahs of the chowk, waiting for the next issue of dawn to read about the death in kashmir. It is the same editor, the same mind set that puts the death news in the front pages, they know what pakistanis want.

Thank you sac, at times truth spills out, even through the keyboard.

Re: taimurmalik

Your point about non-residents contributing to development back home is applicable to India too and is a jaded topic...but a critical one nevertheless.

It`s a vicious chicken-and-egg problem. How do you go back and do business in the corrupt, inefficient, and bureaucratic environment? But then without fresh blood and western management ideas brought by non-residents, things will never change. So which happens first?

Re: crypto

Please don`t encourage and excite gymno with conversations about operating systems and IT skills. This board can do without the orgasmic response it will evoke.

Regards,

RS

SORRY for taking up soo much space BUT couldn`t take anymore of this IT crap..showing as if we were all idiots sitting in Pakistan knowing nothing..as if now India was capable of swollowing us...as if we had NO future in the IT field..and that the Indians are the only technologically Geniouses out there...and that we should excel in IT, ONLY to neutralize the threat from India!

my my....what a whole lot of misunderstandings..on both sides of the border...Frankly speaking in this discussion I have found Indians to be the more composed and polite of the two,though they have EVERY right to be proud of their accomplishments.

and i agree veeresh...cricket suxs..

MORE POWER TO THE PEOPLE.

MORE POWER TO PAKISTAN.

``This article was written for a Pakistani newspaper with the intention of stimulating discussion on the topic. India was used as a convenient vehicle to provoke action, hence the ``jingoistic`` tone of the article.``

Alas..this is why our common man can never stand up..rather than encouraging them to lookout for the world of opportunities that await them..you journalists choose to discourage them but telling them all the scary stories and myths that this is not gonna work..that is not gonna work...this government is a loser...the IT policy is a farce..India is going to eat you up...and all the crap...

WHY CAN`T YOU PEOPLE GIVE HOPE TO THE COMMON MAN.

WHY NOT ARTICLES TELLING THEM WHAT COURSE OF ACTION TO TAKE IN ORDER TO IMPROVE THEIR SKILLS AND EVENTUALLY THEIR LIVES.

WHY NOT OUTLINE AN IT POLICY YOURSELF,IF YOU PPL THINK YOU ARE THAT SMART,AND PUBLISH IT FOR CRITICISM FROM THE PUBLIC.

(and btw. its against the spirit of our country and religion to be jealous of ANYONE`s succeess.If you don`t like them up there then go out..work harder and try to outshine them...you have all my best wishes!)

and the Indians DESERVE to be Congratualted for what they have achieved in this field.

and to talk about India`s IT poweress being a threat to our existence is very nineteenth century.

I agree with Umairr # 36.

I think we have ahd enough of this IT thinge..

I f someone is soo much worried about its current state in Pakistan than please come to Pakistan and do your part.

I know what you would say..that you are being of greater benefit by sending hard-earned foreign exchange...well...I think you are wrong!

What Pakistan needs is not an IT policy nor thousands of IT institutes churning out thousands of graduates/diploma holders with inadequate skills..

what we need is good TEACHERS...and proper institutes..India`s success can be credited to a great extent to Nehru`s IIT`s..We need those sort od institutions.

Training and educating the masses in technologies and skills that would be must in the IT industry tommorow(such as Java,XML,advanced languages and technologies such as WAP etc) and NOT simple graduate degrees from below-standard institutes which teach them things that can hardly get them anywhere.This craze of producing MCSE`s,OCP`s and CCNA`s is not gonna put Pakistan on the IT map.

YOU people out there can be MOST helpful in building a better Pakistan.There should be networks among expats and locals that help improve IT exports from the country.

Each and everyone of us can do his/her part in putting Pakistan on the path to IT excellence and eventual dominance:)

Dear Gymnosophist,

That`s what I call a laddu of a reply! Thanks. I shan`t bore readers pasting copies of my post and yours.

A point by point rebuttal would help.

I am not discussing the quality of research that goes on in Indian educational institutions - which anyway given the funding levels in comparison to US universities is pathetic. In terms of turning out bright young boys and girls who make it to the best universities and jobs thereon India is still right up ahead. I really mean it - take some time off to check up the faculty lists of the top 50-75 univs and watch the monotonous regularity with which Indians have been coming in getting their Ph.Ds in record time (as little as 16-18 months) and getting tenure or the pick of jobs. Since I have a number of Chinese friends I can assure you that Indians and Chinese have a good mutual admiration society going where maths and stats is concerned. It`s just that they choose to specialise in different areas - Indians are more interested in number theory and algebra, while Chinese are into automata, econometrics etc - but watch out! I shd know because I have come here after many of my relations moved in into the US during the last 15-20 years. My famiy is a fairly representative sample of the kind of superlative impact that Indians have made on the educational and technological scene out here - spanning everything from math thru, engg to management and economics. And worse still now during the last 5 years there are a number of wholly Indian teachers (ie.s Indian Ph.Ds) gaining tenure and professorship at US universities. Prof.Paulraj at Stanford is one of the notable examples. My cousin who teaches BioTEchnology at Anna University in Madras, took his Ph.D. in IISc Bangalore, worked at University of Chicago for 5 years before returning to India. Buddy the times they`re a changing!

The stats about the economic and educational success of the Indians are not mine. They are courtesy The Economist. So please join issue with them!

Of course life is hard in certain places like Germany - but not because Indians run drugs or extortion rackets. It`s because they excel! And FYI I do have a few relations in the deep South and a cousin who is married into what you would disparagingly refer to as a ``Red Neck family`` in Alabama. When the reports last came in I heard she is doing quite well thank you! I don`t have to move out of the ``confines of my MBA program`` to learn about life here. I know what it is like in different parts of the US.

As for that bit writing payroll programs etc., you should talk to the leading business writers in the US, UK and the German Economics Minister and the PM of Japan. While you think that Indians are at the low end of the table, these guys just don`t seem to get the point. They go about meeting minor pan-chewing and snuff snorting bureaucrats in Hyderabad and Bangalore pleading with them to open businesses in their respective countries or provide them with info how to get the IT revolution going!

As I said it`s OK Foxy-Sophist if you decide that the grapes are sour. But to say that there is no grape vine around the place -- Hmmm! what does one d o about that!

And once more. WHAT`S YOUR NAME? AND DON`T SAY IT IS GYMNOSOPHIST!

Gymnosophist #17 :

[``The first list of institutions banned from having contacts with the US after the 1998 nuclear tests included Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Indian Institute of Science and Saha Institute of Nuclear Physics. I didn`t see a single IIT or engineering college in that. Tells you whom the US fears when it comes to defense-related research. ``]

The primary objective of IITs/RECs is to produce high calibre garduates/undergraduates - who are to form the professional backbone - and as such are focussed on that task. They are not required to be - and they are not - premier research institutions. In contrast, institutions like TIFR, IISc are established to foster research in advanced sciences and not to teach UG. These two are different categories of institutions and therefore cannot be compared against each other.

[``So, I am somewhat correct in my assessment that our IITs have been reduced to turning out drones. The few with marketing skills turn out to be the founders of Silicon Valley companies.``]

IITs haven`t been `reduced` to turn out anybody. A Mining Engineer or an Instrument Engineer produced by an IIT today is as capable for that profession as the engineers produced anytime before. IITs don`t care what their gradudates should turn out to be. Yes, there is a mass-movement of pass-outs into the IT profession, but the reasons for it are different and has nothing to do with the way IITs/RECs train their students.

[`` (You really don`t think that Vinod Dham designed the Pentium chip by himself, do you? Or that Guru Deshpande designs networking chips today?)``]

You really don`t think Bill Gates is designinig OS nowadays, do you ?.. so what the heck ? irrespective whatever they are doing today, they already have a name for themselves don`t they ? and that`s what counts. in the big picture, these guys wouldn`t be more than small steps in the direction to a national brand building.

[``Let us be clear what this IT revolution is all about: it is about writing yet another payroll program and changing the heading CPF (Contributory Provident Fund in India) to Social Security Deductions in the US. Oh, yeah; putting it on the web.``]

Does this not sound along the lines of ``Aircraft building is all about cutting aluminium and fitting nuts and bolts `` ? just because most of our `IT professionals` are involved in writing/maintaining code, it does not mean that IT `revolution` is about writing `yet another payroll program`. True, for all our boasting and self-congradulation, our supposed `achievements` in IT are NOTHING compared to the actual advances made in the field elsewhere. nevertheless, we have made a beginning that was inconceivable just a decade ago.

[``Don`t pat yourself too hard on the back; you might break your arm.``]

hmmmmm...find it very hard to disagree with this one though. we are still a very poor nation and we will be so for a long time to come... our roads are still dirty and our buses and trains are still overcrowded... our bank clerks still take 50 minutes to process a local draft and our linesmen still demand Rs50 to look into a telephone complaint... we are the same, except for the fact that even a guy from remote Bihar has an increased chance of boarding a flight to San Fransisco. No wonder then, most of us are in an euphoric mood.

Pakistan needs IT for its own survival and
not necessarily because Indians have been successful at it.
The workplace of the future and a current sure
thing for someone who wishes to enter middle income levels both dictate that IT is it these
days.
If thousands of unemployed Pakistani
youth could have access to the IT opportunity,
Pakistan as a whole would benefit.
It is not too late to wake up!

Ras

PS: http://www.hidaya.org/

Earlier today a friend of mine, a recently retired CV surgeon, who is some years my senior and also from Lahore sent the following email message in response to the ``Indian Threat`` pre-occupation of many Pakistanis.



``Perhaps someday the Pakistani nation will stop obsessing about India and worry about Pakistan.

For a country which has never had an elected Prime Minister complete his/her full term, has had more coups and semi-coups than free general elections, has squandered its economic and financial capacity on the altar of personal rapacity, is on the verge of economic collapse, has virtually no civil institutions that are capable of fulfilling their mandates, is caught in a viscous cycle of sectarian violence and, the list goes on, for a country like that to worry about any body but themselves is such paranoid and delusional behaviour that if it were a guy, he would be sitting across from Kinnaird College by now (but then somebody moved the Paghal Khana and made billions of rupees in the process). Let us win the war against ourselves first and then maybe we will worry about India.

No, I am not being pessimistic but just truthful.


Mansoor``



Well said, Mansoor!! (But, boy, you use looong sentences.)

...SR

Wasim with Srinath? Well, Srinath is, also, an infotech engineer by the way (so is Kumble) an now doesn`t that strike terror in ``sac```s heart? By the way, pseudonym is fine but can we have a brief of the person? Can somebody like ``sac`` come up to me at a real chowk wearing a shroud and displaying only his/her ``sacks`` and spout something about ``the sky is falling`` and then make like chicken little?

By the way, cricket still sux and I am really glad that cricket has removed itself from centre-stage at chowk and has been fixed well and truly once and for all . . . are you guys aware that the latest ``Amul`` advertisement lampoons Azhar and Jadeja and other ``cricketers`` and their ability to ``take``? So much for role models . . . and this is just after the copycat Sachin Tendulkar series of ads where he likes to go to a particular restaurant to eat chicken because elsewhere all he gets is ducks . . .

Cricket? Here is an idea for ``sac``: get some balls.

sac #: 37

``India was used as a convenient vehicle to provoke action, hence the ``jingoistic`` tone of the article.``

Arre bhai sac, why do you have to drag India if you want to provoke action in Pakistan. Is there no other uniting factor in your country?

`` As usual the holier than thou Indians have self-congratulated themselves to a GPF``

If you have a right to drag India in an unnecessary article, why shouldn`t Indian start congratulating themselves.

``For better or for worse being anti-India has become a necessary ingredient of Pakistani identity ... held together by a common enemy``,

Very interesting theory!! Jinnah must be turning in his grave.

``Pakistan and India as nations will never be friends.``

Yes they will never be as long as your generation is alive. You are a real sick person.

disgusted