The Ongoing IT Revolution and Security Implications for Pakistan

vsn #77

Get a life, or get a talking frog.

vsn #77:

With due respect to your nationalistic sentiments, dont you think you are being unprofessional by outrightly rejecting Pakistani job applicants ?

How will your higher ups (assuming you are not a CEO) react if they were to know about this?

devkant #78:

IITs do deserve the admiration that they get, but there are other good institutes too, which unfortunately do not get acknowledged. But I think the glory of IITs does reflect on other engineering institutes in India too. IITs are just a logo for the Indian engineering success. Their recognition represents the success of all the top engineering institutes in India as well. And there is no disputing the fact that they are at the top of their league.

BTW, i do concur with your sentiments. Long live India and Indian success.

Satyavadi

Ref vsn #: 77

You said {Nowadays if i see a resume with even a mention of pakistan involved i just throw it in garbage and moveon. I rejected a lot of people like that solely because they are pakistani.}

You have updated caste prejudices and practices to suit the modern day.

Clearly, you are a good Hindu. You should get the ``Hindu of the Year`` award from the RSS.

(For those whose mental faculties might be impaired: sarcasm intended.)

Urstruly #82

:Get a life, or get a talking frog.

I got a life with no pakis in it. For me

that is a good life.

temporal #80:

:Frankly, my dear, I don`t believe you.

What part dont you believe? That I made millions in my teens?

:And, just hedging my bets, if you are for real than at long last jay would not be so lonely!

who is Jay? I am new to this board. I am sure I will know soon enough.

Umairr:

http://www.rediff.com/broadband/2000/aug/29steve.htm

Break-up of Pakistan poses a greater threat to India`s security. So I dont think India would like Pakistan to collapse.Check out this site what Professor Stephen Cohen has to say.

vsn #77 What a petty minded man you are indeed. Thank God all Indians are not like you or Jay.

Re: #77

As old Zeemax would say, ``Duck you``.

Re: Temporal #80,

We tend to assume that most people are half way normal. That`s why when something anomalous like #77 shows up we tend to find it unbelievable or somebody`s attempt at dark humor.

But in these matters of national or religious supremacy, I have long since abandoned expecting `normal` interactions.

As Chowk gets more popular in the mainstream, you will see more of these frothing gnats hover over our already contentious waters.

Umairr #75

Your last paragraph:

``Pakistan should detach itself from India, in all aspects except culture and self-defence. I think Pakistan is in a secure position on those two issues. India has far more problems in Kashmir than Pakistan. Even if the status quo is maintained in Kashmir, Pakistan is alright. If India wants to trade with Pakistan, it should be welcomed. However, a pre-requisite should be that India has to stop trying to isolate Pakistan in international economic arenas like SAARC, Commonwealth, relations with USA etc. Apart from that, Pakistan needs to just figure out what suits it economically, politically etc. irrespective of what India does.``

attracted me to respond. I agree with your conclusion.

However, I find your analysis has military deterrent, Kashmir, India wanting to destroy Pakistan as ugly common denominators. Your analysis lacks economic reasons, and new pressures of knowledge economy to overcome the digital divide.

Unfortunately these ugly common denominators lead to emotionalism rather than rationalism among Pakistani strategicians, who then fail to deliver a completely unemotional strategy for Pakistani nation. I believe, Indians may also be emotional about Kashmir, but it is not such a big factor in overall game, and hence its emotional influence is much smaller on India.

I will relate an incidence from seventies, when I was a student in England. I cannot recall the name of the famous Pakistani economist (Mahboob ??) of the time, he had published a famous economic policy paper for emerging economies. Indira Gandhi`s government took this paper and without changing any words, adopted as official Indian policy. This was the same Indira Gandhi who had already exploded a Nuclear device, and had according to many already dismembered Pakistan. My point is she still had the GUTS to adopt as India`s economic policy, a paper from a Pakistani economist. Excellence was the only color in her mind. I cannot say the same for any Pakistani general, President or Prime Minister who was ever able to even welcome Amartaya Sen, now a Nobel Prize winner for development economy. It is all in the mindset.

Pakistan had the so called Nuclear deterrent for a long time. Anyone who mattered in India, Pakistan, C.I.A., KGB etc. knew about it and always factored this ugly common denominator.

On this count I believe both India and Pakistan have implemented not a deterrent, but a dangerous MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) strategy. The ultimate failure of Pakistan in Kargil has proven that nuclear is no deterrent. I would not argue why Pakistan failed, and why India prevailed in Kargil.

Destruction of Pakistan, the other ugly common denominator of your analysis, may have been and still may be a factor in the minds of whom I would call ``hindu terrorists`` on the fringes. I have a theory such people are found in all religion and society. If they`re born in safforn color they would terrorist of one kind, and if they were born in green color then they would be jehadist of another kind, but they certainly would be jehadist. This ugly common denominator never has factored in Indian policy making. It never will be, because policy makers from the left to right spectrum of Indian scene, know that they do not want extreme Islamist fundamentalists to be managed by India. They know a strong and democratic Pakistan can handle them better than India can. These Indian policy makers of all shades would support democratic movements in Pakistan.

The last ugly common denominator of Kashmir is a result of unfinished separation at birth of siamese twins. It is not same as Israel Palistinian problem, and it is not religious either. It is all about ``Insaniyat`` as Vajpayee has said.

I also believe, the international community would respond with extraordinary a force and swiftness against whoever first uses nuclear option, be it India or Pakistan. The response would be so overwhelming that exercising country would not survive as one entity. Indian policy makers know it, and have offered not to exercise first use. Pakistani generals in my view are driven by what I have earlier called emotionalism and have yet to offer the same.

Also, in my view, by going public, both countries have removed element of surprise from the equation. Sometime, I wonder, if CIA was truly surprised when India exploded, or was CIA looking in other direction to force India to come out in the open, knowing Pakistan would follow. Thus both countries could be subject to internation scrutiny, official and diplomatic pressures to deal.

You said: ``The third difference is that India on a per capital basis is not wealthier than Pakistan; unlike the USA/USSR economic comparison.`` This statement is misleading. The per capita borrowing Pakistan has done is very high compared to India, as a result per capita debt service, which should be subtracted from the per capita income is also very high. Thus per capita income net of per capita debt service in Pakistan is questionable at best. You may recall recent news item, IMF refused to accept Pakistan`s financial numbers, and made Pakistan pay $70M (I believe) back. I also question, per capita as a basis of measure of prosperity not only in Pakistan, but India also, because of skewed income distribution.

I suspect there is more uneven concentration of wealth in Pakistan than in India. I say this by looking at numbers of cars sold in India (about 1,000,000) compared to about 41,000 in Pakistan, whereas a comparable number should be about 140,000. The number of engineers Pakistan produces is about 1/10 th compared India.

You said: ``Because of the above, all Pakistan needs to do is to establish enough of a deterrent to be able to defend itself against India.``

I believe Pakistan would be better off negotiating with India to purge ugly common denominators from its calculations for, say fifty years. Even for those Pakistanis who are driven by taking revenge against Hindu India, this is a better option. They only have to remind themselves that Ghauri and Gaznavi attacked India many more times, before conquering it.

Anil Kapuria

Anil@Kapuria.COM

VSN:

Your Vichaa`r are certainly very Mahaa`n!
Mubrook Mubrook Mubrook!!!

Well, it is your prerogative to have or not to have certain people in your life.

In my 5 years in Management Consulting(With Big 5 & Tech Consulting Firm), I have interviewed Indians and have been interviewed by one Indian, I have yet to come across anyone with the level of pathos and ethos, I find in your words. Keep it Up!

I think Sac has very clearly delineated his reason for bringing the mention of India, after that it should be Khaa`laa`s[End of Discussion]and move on!

Take Care

Anil:

His name was Late Dr.Mahboob-ul-Haq[Economist/World Bank]

Once again to clarify myself:

If pakis want to be buddies with Indians in US where it suits them

and enmies in south asis where it does not - sorry it does not work that way.

Every action has a consequence and you have to take responsibility for your actions (oryour governments actions). I am yet to see a paki who is critical of his religion or government. Even well educated paki physicians are raising

money for the madarasas but they want all indian physicians to be friendly

to them and help them. And if they dont they are petty minded and prejudiced.

When you give so much grief to India everyday tying our army down, terrorising

our civilians, please be prepared for their wrath all over world. If you cant

take the heat, influence your govt to be friendly to India. When i see sincere

efforts on overseas pakis in this direction i will change. Until that time

i am not helping no damn paki!

vsn #77, ``Nowadays if i see a resume with even a mention of pakistan involved i just throw

it in garbage and moveon. I rejected a lot of people like that solely because they are pakistani.``

Hmmm, could I have your real name and the company you work for, or God forbid you own? I know plenty of Pakistani laywers in NY who`d love to get a piece of you, granted you, as you describe yourself, even EXIST.

If only the US government knew what the worth of racist desis like you who come here with the letters IT stamped on your forehead was...

Well vsn is not a unique case. After Kargil war, in which I tried my best to contribute what I can afford towards the widows of jawans who died in the battlefield my vision of Pakistan changed completely. I decided not to buy any Pakistani product lest Pakistani govt will use this money to launch another such attack on India. For example, I used to buy Pakistani Basmati which costs almost half that of Indian Basmati, but I decided to buy Indian one after Kargil. Also I stopped visiting Pakistani restaurants for the same reason. I believe that Indians are probably the biggest buyers of Pakistani products at least in USA. If we instead buy Indian products, we can at least contribute to our country to a minor extent. And I was not alone. Many of my friends voluntarily joined me in this Pakistani boycott. It continues till date. In retrospection, I think I never used to pay any attention to Kashmir and Pakistan before Kargil, but after Kargil it was a complete turnaround. Especially, the barbaric acts of Pakistani military in which they cut off his reproductive organs.

VSN #77

Without making any comments about your personal likes and dislikes, I would like to ask - is it not illegal in the United States to base your hiring practices on national origin?

vsn #77: ``most IT jobs involve at least one interview by an Indian.``

I do not agree with this. The ratio of Indian managers to Indian programmers/entrepreneurs in the US IT industry is very very low. While Indians have had a lot of success as IT entreprenuers, they are highly under-represented (or have highly under-performed; take your pick) in management (one only needs to read your reply to find out why). The ratio of Indian programmers to Indian managers is extremely low. (quite a bit lower than than the ratio of Pakistani programmers to Pakistani managers). This has been recognized by many IT magazines like Fortune, etc.

The number of Indians I have interviewed is getting close to three figures. The number I have hired or recommended for hiring is well into the double figures. I have myself been only interviewed by perhaps two or three Indians.

Due to high number of Indians at the programmer level in the US IT industry, on an individual level, the average Pakistani interviews far far more Indians than vice-versa.