Americans are Dumb?

so what exactly is this article trying to prove? what is the point..are Americans dumb, or not? you go in circles with this article and ends up getting nowhere..a complete waste of time..

re: baig
``Many people other than only Americans ``don`t do what`s right, when they know the right way to do something.``
What the hell does this mean ?

I think what the article in NYT was trying to highlight was American innovation. It is encouraged at every level (schools, college, research, business, legislation, etc.) and is present in some form all over the world. Be it kiddie b`day parties at MickieDees, jeans, MTV, the internet; it all started in the USA.
Americans cherish and celebrate ingenuity and innovation and have created an atmosphere where these flourish.
This seems to be missing from the reasons you list for America`s success.

regards

regards

re: baig
``Many people other than only Americans ``don`t do what`s right, when they know the right way to do something.``
What the hell does this mean ?

I think what the article in NYT was trying to highlight was American innovation. It is encouraged at every level (schools, college, research, business, legislation, etc.) and is present in some form all over the world. Be it kiddie b`day parties at MickieDees, jeans, MTV, the internet; it all started in the USA.
Americans cherish and celebrate ingenuity and innovation and have created an atmosphere where these flourish.
This seems to be missing from the reasons you list for America`s success.

regards

regards

I am sorry to barge in like this, but Musharraf is in New York staying at the Roosevelt hotel. While he is here it is time to send him a message.

I am prepared to organize a protest against the infamous, immoral, discriminatory, and unIslamic Blasphemy law of Pakistan. As it is Applied, it is nothing more than a political insturment used for the harrassment of minorities.

One Military dictator introduced it as law, another should get rid of it.

I urge all likeminded people who live in the N.Y area to join with me within the next 48 hours. I have already spoken up against the Blasphemy law in Dawn: Letters to the Editor in the past, now its time to take action.

Please e-mail me immediately to join a coordinated protest. The moment is ripe to send a msg, while the eyes of the World/Paki press are focused on New York & the U.N Millenium summit. The more people that participate, the better. If necessary, i will do it alone. I will respond immediately to all e-mails received with details.

Feel free to copy this msg, & fwd to anyone else in the N.Y area who might be interested, or repost on the web immediately.

OMAR MIRZA

knotyourcupoftea@aol.com

SameerJB #11 Very funny indeed. The car does seem to have been used for commuting every day (between boat and lighthouse).

Shankar #15

Not only you agreed to my points, but I also agree with your points.

The question is, how should we tackle America or for that matter any other country. In the interest of the people of our country, rather than American interest.

(As a side not, although you will not agree as me, but Pakistanis felt betrayed by Americans in 1971. Apne Ghulamoon Ka bhi Khiyal Nahi Rakha or Khali Zabani Hamari Madad Ki.)

Krashid,

Post#14

Yes, but thats the point of view of the rest of the world. Every dominant power in human history has exploited weaker ones. Greeks, Romans, Turks, British, French, Russians-- I can go on & on. I`ll challenge you to name a single dominant power ,currently or in the past ,that has`nt exploited or trampled on human rights of others. That is a human characteristic. Not necessarily an American one.

If Pakistan or India were sole superpowers, do you think our behavior would be any different?! In that respect, the US has perhaps been the most benign.

As far as foreign policy is concerned, every leader has the right & duty to protect the interests of his own country. Unfortunately, in that process other people/countries get hurt. The US President`s job is not to protect the citizens of Iraq or Afganistan.

India learnt that lesson very well in 71. Ideologically, America has always touted that they protect & nurture freedom, liberty & democracy everywhere in the world. These ``champions`` of democracy tilted to West Pakistan, where a military dictatorship had spat at democracy in the face & were suppressing a majority elected leader & the people who voted for him.

I just could`nt reconcile how America could do that. The truth was Nixon was greatful to Yahya for opening the door to China. From the point of view of the American President, the importance of a friendly China was in the national interest of the US & superceded democracy in Pakistan. The only way to reconcile it is that pragmatism ALWAYS takes precedence over ideology.

Why blame America for it? Every single country in the world has the same philosophy. Why was India`s best friend the most powerful Communist country on earth? Or why would a devout Islamic country like Pakistan consider a billion nonbelieving Communist Chinese their ``all weather`` friends?

At least America struggles with the hypocracy of it. On the ``This Week With David Brinkley`` show, there was a huge debate when America did not support the legally elected religious party in Algeria. Republicans accused Democrats of being hypocrites. However, at the end of the debate was the consensus of opinion was it went against America`s interests to support the religious party. Case closed!

Sure America is a hypocrite in that respect. However, the question that should be asked is ``which country isnt?``

Shankar #10

I completely agree with you regarding American system. Its strength lies in the rule of people, through elected judges, jury and elected leaders, which mitigates the influence of Corporate America to some extent. And Corporate America can do nothing much about it. The lobbies and grouping certainly should be playing part also, particularly the action against gun-lobby, tobacco industry and microsoft etc.

But that is internal matter.

Since as everybody knows that average American is ignorant about world as long as no American is dying somewhere, so their policy is very ruthless outside. To give you an example. They created Jihad, they loaded Afghanis with guns and Klashinkov and rocket launchers etc. against Russia. And when Russia collapsed, they left heavily armed, Jihadis on their own, without any regards.

Also it is common knowledge that Iraq`s attack on Kuwait was tacitly approved by America, to get their army in the region. Multipurpose strategy, to weaken Iraq, to control production of oil and its distribution etc and to coerce Arabian countries.

There are many examples, like killing of many world leaders by CIA etc.

So I whole heartedly agree with you that American system in America has many positive points, but it is restricted within the boundaries of USA.

Marshall plan was not due to generosity of America, but to stem the tide of Russian influence. Otherwise there is a large population of world which needs a miniscule amount of help, compared to Marshall plan and whose people are living in much worse condition than people in countries who received massive amount of Marshall plan aid.

shankar #10,

Well said!

(Many people other than only Americans ``don`t do what`s right, when they know the right way to do something.``)

er, ok.

regards

aakar patel

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Fozia

Re post#7

I agree with most of your comments re the US. However, I feel you arent giving Americans the credit that they desreve.

Yes, the US has glaring faults--but which country doesnt? They are just as human as anyone else.

The difference between most countries & the US is that Americans are the first ones to admit to their faults. They debate their faults & make a concious attempt to rectify them. THAT is the biggest strenght of America.

Americans, by the droves protested over Vietnam. After their painful defeat, they learnt from it & were strengthened by it. The war was lost in the streets & college campuses of the US, NOT in the paddy fields of Vietnam.

Compared to that, do Indians protest in droves about what is happening in Kashmir? Or did Pakistanis protest in droves over their policy in E.Pakistan? The Soviet Union commited atrocities in Afganistan. Did their populations rise up? No--they were suppressed, lied to & the weakness were swept under the rug! America came out of Vietnam, stronger & humbler. The Soviet Union collapsed like a house of cards after Afganistan.

IMHO, Watergate was America`s greatest triumph. Innumerable world leaders have done or attempted to do what Nixon tried in Watergate. If you compare Nixon`s crimes to those commited by our leaders (in S.Asia)--they are trivial. The fact America could throw out one of the most popular (& arguably one of most astute) Commander-in-Chief because he ATTEMPTED to monkey with their constitution, speaks of their greatness.

Lets be frank, how many world leaders have commited a ``Monica Lewinsky``? Yet how many of them have been publicly raked & impeached?! Despite the fact the whole world laughed at this shameful incident, America showed that NOBODY in the US, including & especially the most powerful American, is above the law.

Slavery was a shameful chapter in American history. Yet they had leaders like Abraham Lincoln who stood on principle. He was willing to tear the country apart in a civil war. He did`nt care about popularity or opinion polls or chances of reelection. Thats why he`s larger than life. Americans freely acknowlege that prejudice still haunts their society. I feel they are very open about it, & make a sincere attempt to rectify it.

When Haiti was collapsing, Haitians straddled on rafts & risked their lives to come to America. They DIDNT go to the Dominican Republic, Cuba or Jamaica. Even an illiterate peasant knows that there is discrimination in America. They know that going to America doesnt automatically mean they are going to live a life in luxury. Yet they chose America over the other countries. Why? because they had the innate knowlege that it would be their best chance to be treated fairly.

The big reason Western Europe & Japan rose from the ashes is because America is one of the most generous conquerors. Through the Marshall plan & loans to Japan, they recovered not just economically, but also emulated America`s values. Compare that to what happened to Eastern Europe or even Vietnam after the war?

One of my Pakistani friends made a tongue-in-cheek comment of how to rescue Pakistan from being a failed state in the future. Pakistan should declare war on America & lose the war. A conquering America will rebuild Pakistan`s economy & institutions far more effectively than Pakistanis can. I know, I know, its a ridiculous (& perhaps offensive) notion. But there just might be a grain of truth in that madness:)

No other civilisation in human development has been as open & as generous as the US. Yes, all civilsations rise & fall. However, American values & ideals just may ensure that it will stay risen for a long time.

Re: S F Baig:

I think that the Germans would agree with you! After all, the Americans did blunder their way into Berlin twice! :)

Ciao!

fozia #7

fozia,

good stuff! by the way, your style ... they way you argued your viewpoint suggests that you have been travelling :) have you?

good to see you!

``If you or I, or most any other American, were left on our own in the Kalahari desert, we`d probably not survive without a flask of water. Yet the locals can survive. Are they any more intelligent than we are? Of course not! And if they, the Kalahari natives, were suddenly transported to Wall Street and could not

``make a buck`` like (we think) we all do, would they be dumb? Nope!

I`m not sure what you are trying to prove with these really weak examples.

As a non-American, my impression of the average American isn`t so much that they aren`t intelligent, rather it`s that they are ignorant. After having travelled through 48 states out of 50, I feel somewhat justfied in my opinion...

General knowledge of anything outside of the U.S.A is nearly nil. Majority can`t name the capitals of the two countries that border them.

This doesn`t mean Americans are dumb. They don`t care to know about what happens in the rest of the world - unless the U.S is directly involved. Eg The war in Bosnia didn`t exist as per CNN until the U.S sent troops in.

Fine...Americans are entitled to choose how much they want to know about the rest of the world, but then don`t be offended when the rest of the world says Americans are ignorant.

There is simply no excuse as to why your Republican Presidential candidate couldn`t answer who the leaders of the 4 ``hot-spot`` countries were. Especially when the U.S likes to consider itself as the ``world`s policeman``.

`` Americans often don`t do what`s right,

even when they know the right way to do something.``

There`s another adjective for such behavior- it`s called being stubborn....

``America is doing very well, not because its habitants are any smarter, but because it is a rich country, with natural resources and room for its diverse population.``

China, Russia can easily match U.S in terms of natural resources. Many war-torn African countries are incredibly rich in natural resources as well. That in itself is not enough to guarantee that a country will ``do well``.

`` It has the great advantage of not being encumbered by a slew of traditions and historic baggage like the older civilization of Europe, Mexico or Asia.``

U.S is so young that it`s not even worth considering it`s ``traditions`` and ``historic baggage``. Yet even in it`s young life, it`s certainly piled up some interesting stories what with the legacy of slavery and apartheid, cold war, vietnam and recent escapades as a self-styled ``world policeman`` (Libya, and Iraq come to mind).

Traditions are not static, they evolve over time. Which is why the culture of older civilizations are described by labelling certain eras. For example the traditions and culture of Northern Europe during it`s ``Dark Ages`` was very different than in the ``Renaissance``.

Any basic history course will show you that all civilizations go through a period of ``rise and fall``. It wasn`t until a mere 50 years ago that the U.K let go of it`s colonial empire which stretched from the Atlantic Ocean down to the southern tip of Africa and east up to the Pacific. Not bad for a tiny island of a few million people in the Northern Atlantic sea...

Chinese and Roman dynasties are counted in thousands of years. U.S has been around for a little over 200 years- a slight blip in the timeline of many of our older civilizations.

`` When the others had to ``adapt`` to new ways, Americans could just dive in. Where the former have pride to support them, Americans have self confidence as a nation.``

I`m sorry but I have no idea what the point of the above statement is. It simply makes no sense.

`` How did the U.S. economy get to be the most dominant, most innovative, most vibrant in the world, if not that we have a developed a breed of

managers, entrepreneurs, and innovators that can compete with any or all?``

I`ll refrain from commenting on just how ``innovative`` the U.S is. I`m too busy trying to block out the media babble over ``Survivor``, ``Survivor II`` and the 10 other Survivor wannabe shows.

There`s no doubt that the U.S has had a good share of creative hardworking people. But are they the only ones in this world? No. The problem is that the Americans are too busy trumpeting their own success to notice anyone elses.

You say that the U.S has the most ``vibrant`` economy? I know many ex-Hong Kong businessmen who complain that the North American Business style is too ``slow`` for them...

The primary reason why the U.S has a strong economy in the late 20th century and early in the new millenium is because unlike Europe, China, Japan, Russia, Africa, Middle East and Asia, it has not had it`s economy and infrastructure demolished by devastating wars.

England, France and Germany cities were flattened in WWI/WWII and large numbers of their young men were killed. Where was the U.S in all of this? Early in the war they grew rich by selling arms to the ``Allied`` forces. Then later in the war when the Allied forces minus the Americans were finally beginning to repel the Germans and push them back, the Americans come striding in with their shiny well fed battalions and procede to take credit for 50% of the victory effort.

Europe, Japan had to spend the next 20 years rebuilding their cities from scratch while the U.S was humming along feeding on it`s spectacular economic growth in the war time.

U.S has had the advantage of Geographic Isolation from any of it`s potential enemies. It`s pretty hard to strike a surpise attack when you have to cross the entire Pacific or Atlantic ocean. (although Japan did give the U.S a good scare at Pearl Harbour).

The U.S has been a ``world power`` for a little over 50 years-basically since the end of WWII. In the grand scheme of things it`s way to early to make any statements of America`s ``Greatness`` in a mere 50 years...

Fozia Zaidi

yar.....accha khuch nahi kehta warna urstruly kahay ga keh inconsistent hoon :)

The usual ``I-am-as-American-as-it-gets`` from an ABCD ...

Another article which can be classified as a WASTE-OF-TIME!

Pakistan Zindabad

This left me scratching my head. So what`s your point? And as a corollary, if we`re so smart, why are our countries so mired in chaos, confusion, poverty and corruption?

What is happening to Chowk???. If you folks publish one more article like this, I am outa here!.

Aziz.

``In the end Americans always do the right thing--after trying every other alternative``

Winston Chuchill