Negotiating Human Rights

Re: Aakar

With all due respect to you.

Maybe papers in India and Pakistan SHOULD print outcries against abuse and violence. Maybe then we would be closer to some form of democracy. The court of the public needs to be established and our media has sadly neglected its foremost role.

To me it is important that one person spoke up and called a spade a spade. As for libel; most of the stuff that papers in India and Pakistan print is lies, subterfuge, the nudges of politicians with titillating pictures of women.

Where does libel end and abuse start? I find libel in Indo-Pak papers not at Chowk. Are stories about the personal lives of public figures not libel?; they are printed without thought as a sort of public right to publicity. But according to you a family`s genuine plight because they defended a woman is libel?

If Chowk wanted to be like `standard` papers, it would not be what it is today. Housing dissent and making it somehow work is a harder task than housing articles by `good` writers packaged in a pleasing format. Infotainment is not Chowk`s calling.

Do you realise, how these `standards` somehow work against the people who have genuine stories of abuse to tell? Where do they go for justice? to USA, to Canada? How long will this go on? Manufacturing consent is not something Chowk will ever be good at. And I am proud of that. Of-course, chowk will be criticized; some may appreciate it. But that doesnt mean that we stop making hard judgement calls.

Maybe it is time that some paper performed the function it is supposed to: A free place where people from all walks of life feel safe enough to air their griefs. I am proud that Chowk gave this opportunity to this person to speak. That this person has reason to be afraid is obvious.

Pakistan is a hard country to fight for justice. I am happy that Chowk provided a starting point.
Let`s engage in dialogue by all means--lets have justice here.

Regards

Saima

Re: Sigalph235

Don`t you know, old boy, that the Mullah Brigade dubbed Mr. Jinnah as the Kaffir-e-Azam? I propose a mullocaust as the one sovereign remedy for most of our ills.

Beautiful Kabuliwallah ...

Where are you by the way ... and how is JNU?

re:sac

Maybe recourse to Judge Judy might not be such a bad thing. It would provide some recourse considering there are precious few as it is.

Maybe more `domestic disputes` as they are so euphemistcially referred to, need to be broadcast across the airwaves for men and women in Pakistan to realize that there are alternatives - that help is possible as is punishment.

Maybe this one really was a `domestic dispute` blown out of proportion (doesnt sound like it though) but there are millions more where that came from - with the men and women and indeed families involved purporting to be educated, enlightened and aware. They are not domestic disputes - but pure violence against HUMAN rights.

Most of our ills it seems are traced back to a lack of education. But what excuse does anyone have when all concerned are educated ?

Yes we need drinking water, electricity and more schools (amongst a host of other needs). But in the meantime men, women and children must continue to suffer in a distorted social system ? Why ?

dL

sac`s # 6 reminds me again of the typical nonsensical defense used by the defenders of the medieval practices.

First, these folks say `it is our business therefore no foreigners`.

Second, `we define human rights in a different way.`

Third, `when we don`t have enough to eat why should we be concerned about funny things like human rights.`

This kind of deliberate denial of the problem over the last fifty some years has made the most promising new Muslim nation the lamentation of her own own Founders and her admirers in the rest of the world. The Pakistan which boldly acceded to the UDHR in 1949 is now a country where killing some women is considered honorable.

My old nemesis Omar Mirza is so right: for all its faults, the West doesn`t attach any civic societal honour to killing women and burning heretics.

The bottomline is this: there is no Pakistani way and no Islamic way of human rights. Human rights are human rights and only the Mullah Umars of the world will try to fudge the issue by constantly denying that there exists a universal standard of human dignity. Pakistani society is in the battle of its life between the spirit of MA Jinnah and the ghost of Mullah Umar&Co.

i share the disappointment of taimurmalik #14, that the author chose not to reveal her/his identity.

whether this was out of bashfulness or fear i cannot say, but i can reveal what we normally do at our newspaper with allegations sent in anonymity: spike them. we do not lend our shoulder to the guns of others -- and i do think the editors of chowk should not have either.

if chowk were a print product exposed to libel charges, i`m not so sure this would have been published.

i also think the fact of the anonymity, and this has not be remarked upon, is that it substantially takes away from the gravity of the charge -- which is reduced to no more than gossip.

regards

aakar patel

Just curious, not a place to post this when teh matter is serious, but whatever has happened to old Tahmed321? He does not seem like the one, the poised, calm and rational Tahmed. Somehow this new Tahmed seems little jittery. Jay is nowhere to find in this board yet. Why invite problem?

Regards from Indian brigade.

BEAT THE WOMEN, if they stray ... or if you just plain feel like it. OUR CULTURE, TRADITIONS & RELIGION SANCTION IT.

MULLAH SALVATION CMTE OF PAKISTAN

He-e-e-e-e-r-e comes Jay

and his Indian brigade,

with proof, positive,

about that miserable creature,

the Pakistani male.

The more things change ... the more they remain the same. So what if Pakistan has a General called Mushy running the country? It does not mean that the rule of law prevails.

I agree with Pullu`s post #4s following comment:

`When society starts to accept these things without raising an eyebrow then that society is in decay. Law and Order are our own reflections`.

The whole article answers the following questions:

#1Whats the value of Pakistani citizenship and why?

#2Whats the status of women in PAK society?

#3 Why are Pakistanis deservedly treated with such contempt abroad, especially when they show their green passports anywhere?

Hope for change? Dream on. Change cultures first!

Abolish illiteracy and ignorance first. Then hope for change. These nasty cultural perversities cannot be hidden in the West. There are many stories about Paki-Mulsim girls being abducted by their parents into forced marriages ... and numerous reported cases of domestic violence, women being torched by abusive husbands abroad like recently in Chicago. Fortunately, their is no `cultural` sympathy for the perpetrators of these crimes in the West, Murder is simply Murder, and not dubbed `HONORABLE`, unlike in Pakistan. And the law is the law. No man is above it, again unlike Pakistan. Justice is blind, but not also deaf, mute and dumb, unlike in Pakistan.

Btw, its nice to see you back on Chowk, Bad Girl.



OMAR MIRZA

re chowk contributor

can we do anything to help the zehris or basma?

regards

btw. its just my personal opinion but I feel that the Author `chowk contributor` should have written this under his own name..especially when one is telling an incident involving real life names of the people involved,especially when one is writing something which will damage their reputition for good.

Offcourse if he had given his name as some `hamid`,`qazi` or `osama`...we would never have been able to tell if its his real name or not but STILL it makes a difference!...just goes to show the fear in peoples mindz.

This name-hiding thing just goes to show how much people in Pakistan are afraid of the powers that be...

Even people like the learned Author have to resort to safer means for reasons best known to them.

PEOPLE PLEASE RISE....SPEAK UP...THIS IS A FREE WORLD...YOUR WORLD...DON`T BE AFRAID...

because if the priviliged ones like us feel a restriction on our freedom of speech...we can only imagine about the condition of the under-priviliged..

WAKE UP!....SPEAK OUT!...BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF!

Over n` Out.

Taimur.

Sorry for the rather long post..but i think that people need to read it again and rather learn it by heart especially those in Pakistan without any high-flying influentials in their families...

GOD..incidents like these make even a staunch patriot like me think again...work harder..

and act faster!

May God be nice to us.Amen.

Taimur.

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and ``to cause it to be disseminated,

displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions,

without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories.``

PREAMBLE

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all

members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,



Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the commonpeople,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort,

to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the

United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights

and fundamental freedoms,

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore,

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

proclaims

THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with

reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without

distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other

opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no

distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status

of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust,

non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 8.

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and

impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal

charge against him.

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until

proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees

necessary for his defence.

(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission

which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time

when it was committed Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was

applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article 12.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or

correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation Everyone has the right

to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of

each state.

(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from

non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 15.

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change

his nationality.

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or

religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights

as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to

protection by society and the State.

Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes

freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with

others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice,

worship and observance.

Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or

through freely chosen representatives.

(2) Everyone has the right to equal access to public service in his country.

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this shall be

expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to

realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance

with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural

rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for

himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if

necessary, by other means of social protection.

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his

interests.

Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working

hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being

of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and

necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment,

sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances

beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children,

whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the

elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory.

Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to

the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their

children.

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to

enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting

from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article 28.

Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29.

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development

of his personality is possible.

(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such

limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition

and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements

of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes

and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or

person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction

of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

regards,

Taimur.

Talking of Law and Order. This is what happened in the heart of India`s capital.

At 12.00 noon, five goons got into a DTC(delhi transport corporation) bus and looted the passengers. Few who tried to resist were slashed. Then they walked away casually after getting down at a crossing. And the passengers scooted too { may be didn`t want be caught in a lafda}. One of the passengers however took himself to a police station to file a FIR. Not surprisingly, the policemen dissuaded him from doing so saying..``kaheka lafda mol rahe ho..woh court ka chakkar...goondon se dushmani..ghar ja aur sab bhool ja..``

This in New Delhi- our National capital..If you guys don`t know, it is also the crime capital of this country. So much for Law And Order.

Thulla Maharaj ki Jai Ho...

Pullu

A sad, but true reflection of Pakistan. My only comment is that I agree with sac on this issue. What human rights in Pakistan are we talking about, when we have no concept of what those rights are all about in the first place!

Re: Temporal # 8

What police reforms are you wishing for? :)

The police will never be reformed in Pakistan! Mark my words!

Ciao!

Yesterday there was a news report that HKL Bhagat, former Indian minister was acquitted in two more of the Delhi Sikh riots cases against him because of lack of `substantive evidence`. After a delay of 16 long years, can the facts be really established and guilty punished as they deserve? There was the case of a rich young man who killed 6 people with his car in N. Delhi, some of them policemen and the case was dropped because all complainants got paid off. There was (late) Punjab CM Beant Singh`s grandson against whom charges of sexual assault on a foreign tourist are/were not pursued because, obviously she didnot consider herself safe enough to return to India to testify.

Its a question of successfully defying the state`s writ, in the public eye, or being visibly above the law. An ordinary citizen is going to be much worse-off in his more legitimate and pressing law-and-order concerns because of such bare-faced violations by some. Nothing but community activism and raising a real stink in the media and public can change this, and for a safer society its very important to do so.

Thanks to Chowk Contributer.

Sadhana