Protest in New York!

Re: Paki hypocrites living in N.America

Imagine yourself if a law was passed today in N.America, telling you that because you are a ``religious minority`` (Muslims), you cannot vote in regular elections like everybody else, in fact you will be represented proportionally in the various legislatures at State & National levels based on the percentage of the population of Muslims in the country. You will be able to vote only for the candidates running from reserved Muslim seats. Granted, there would be some Muslims represented in Congress etc., but do you think it would improve your situation vis-a-vis other citizens in society? Or do you think it just might have the effect of stigmatizing you from the rest of society? Would it make you feel like it was YOUR COUNTRY and you had an equal voice in its affairs as compared to the rest of society? Also, do you suppose its also possible, that those elected Muslims would generally find themselves forced to support whatever govt was in power, with their votes as your chosen representatives, just to be able to LIVE peacefully in the country, knowing they are dependent on the GOODWILL on the majority religious community?

If freedom of religion means anything whatsoever, it means that we must tolerate the religious practices of others. Yes, i know many people object to the Ahmadi community calling themselves `Muslims`, but do you people realize that the statutes on the books in pakistan not only stigmatize being Ahmadi, but they also violate the principle of freedom of religion?

If its not good enough for Pakistanis living in the U.S.A to be treated that way themselves, then how come its okay to see others treated in this manner in Pakistan? If not hypocricy, then what pray tell me, can i call it?

Why aren`t Pakistanis ASHAMED that in Predominently CHRISTIAN countries, they are not legally discriminated against, can enjoy all the priviliges & immunities of citizenship and have the freedom to practice their religion without legal hinderence, yet CHRISTIANS in their own country are not afforded equal rights of citizenship?

O.M

Reply #: 1

krashid

YOU WROTE:

``

As you are a lawyer you might be knowing that there are some form of blasphemy laws in other countries even in so called advanced countries.

``

-- Could you give examples of such countries and their laws ?

AD

this mr. mirza and co. in america have tried to make another havoc. the said religious discrimnity is better than a civil war to be launched by these christians. never they are made to feel alienated or outcasts and they have shouldered the burden of carrying out daunting tasks along with other citizens of pakistan. these nationalist, these racists are the people who add to the grievances of general public while working for their group interests. today it is them who are raising slogans to save their fellow christians from the 2nd citizen status granted to them by the government of pakistan but i want to ask justone question wont their action give birth to another opponent group to stop these christians from taking steps like these? who will end this struggle who will be responsible if someone is harmed christian or muslim? its time we put our difference behind ourselves to give our new generation a better, safer, cleaner pakistan.

Reply..to #117.Fairdinkum

I sincerely apologize If you were insulted by my comments.I was not commenting sharply at you but at the general attitdude of wealthy overseas pakistanis who see the conditions back home as trivial and mundane.

I think my sometimes hostile attitude comes from hearing Pakistanis in the US make some of the most racist , and hurtful remarks towards minorities here and in Pakistan.

I myself am not a minority but rather from the wretched majority...Punjabi,military,farming background.And I have heard the same stupid remarks from members of my own family and villagers.ie..

``You now Shia,s are really Kafirs``or

``I think those Ahmadis down the river should be in jail,how dare they run a sugar mill in the heart of Punjab``

Or the best one yet..``The darks skinned Mussalees and Mirasees are descendants of monkeys``

Here in the US ``If these nasty black people werent here it would be such a nice neigborhood``

By the way that was from a guy who has a food store in an inner city neigborhood!!

Once again ,If my comments were hurtful to you in anyway,I sincerely apologize.

Allah Hafiz

Hamidm:

Sir, you are a genius! I am serious!

Re: hamidm

``..... because I sincerely believe that organized religion is the mother of all evils``

Yes yes yes! We`re still a few hundred years from ridding the planet of this evil.

Re: Villager #116

And how do you know so much about my credentials? :)

Yes, in relative terms having access to the Internet is a privilege, but it does not necessarily mean that everybody who has access to a PC and who can afford Internet connection is a rich person, and live the kind of life style you mentioned in you post. I don`t have a DVD ROM, and I don`t even know what an SUV is? And my neighbors are mostly Somali refugees:) Where I live, one can buy the sort of PC I have for approx. 3000 PKR and Internet connection is free.

In my view, all human being regardless of their race, religion, gender, educational qualifications or social status are worthy of respect. If you belong to a minority in Pakistan and found my comments distasteful, I apologize. My comments were aimed at tahmed321 … I have known him for a long time on this site.

Sir, I have been in jails in Pakistan, and I have been through some of the tortures you describe in your post.

Take care.

hamidm #109 you write ``I see the folly of my ways``. I assume you mean this, and so I congratulate you as a brother.

sadna #105 you write ``I meant `quotas` as in rationing of essential items for fair distribution.``: I think fairdinkum referred to quotas in government jobs, which seem like ``essential items`` only to the job-holders themselves, not to society at large.

Re..Post #94 `` sunni muslim humor``

Its fascinating that people with DVD-Roms and SUV,s , Dunkin Donuts franschises ,weekend parties at the Khans next door`` crowd have such a sharp sense of humor and wit.

For those that live there..for those that can hear the screams from Adiala jail..for those who have FIR,s written on them by unseen complainants..for those that come home after interrogations with burn marks on thier genitals and the soles of thier feet bleeding....increibly for them ,the humor isnt that humorous.

Oh I forgot!!They are a bunch of illiterate simpletons anyway.

Allah Hafiz

Hamidm

{{I sincerely believe that organized religion is the mother of all evils--}}

Hate to admit it, but you have a point.

Having said that, your answer to that problem seems to be ``hate everybody, except myself``

RE..post#82 Hamidm

Without a doubt The Quran Sharif is a source of incredible wisdom..however narrow minded exclusionist bigots are certainly NOT the source of it.

Are you serious? Do you really believe that we Muslims should walk around ith our noses high in the air looking down at other faiths. Please recall that the Syrian monk who consuled the Holy Prophet (pbuh) was a Christian. So I guess by your definition ther was ``consorting going on there too``?

The reason both India AND Pakistan are in the dire social situation right now is that there is no respect for basic human dignity.This is a very basic concept practised by many alleged western Kafirs today, perhaps we can learn something from them after all.

Allah Hafiz

Krashid,

Iam very angry with your Qadiane professor. Look what you turned out to be.

Omar 1974!

I have only one problem with Qadiani, whether anybody likes it or not.

There is a consensus among the majority of Muslims that anybody not believing in the finality of prophet PBUH is not Muslim.

They should preach their religion as Qadiani and not Islam.

Throughout Islamic history, anybody not believing in the finality of prophet PBUH and claiming themselves to be Muslims have been persecuted, whether it is early Arab period, pragmatic Abbasid rule or Bahai and Ahmedi. They should equate themselves as Qadiani. As Christians, Jews and Muslims are related to a prophet. They should also say so.

That is just a perspective.

My teacher from class 1-10 was a Qadiani. A very great person. And did not mingle religion. In fact he incultated a habit of reading and if it was not him, I would be a technocrat (and a very intelligent person):)

tahmed321 #89

``People like you are the only kafirs on earth``

...... so now Jay has some company - good company, I might add...... k for Kafir, J for Abu-Jahal and H for ..... Hypocrite ? Astaghfirullah ! i have often wondered why the poor Hypocrites are so horribly criticized, ostracized, and threatened with fire and brimstone ......... religion can`t be all that bad - what was that Janis Joplin song about going down to River Jordan, holding hands with Jesus and sitting at the table with the Master ? ......tahmed321 - I see the folly of my ways, because as the queen said :

Amazing grace

How sweet the sound

That saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost

But now I`m found

Was blind but now I see.

............. I am saved - Takbeer! Jay is still lost !

scout # 95

.....scout wants to know what does religion have to do with this and that - why ? ..... because I sincerely believe that organized religion is the mother of all evils .... even the benign, smirky, shifty-eyed Bahais and the white-shirted, bicycling polygamist-wannabe Mormons do more harm than the guys who run the trash business in NY.... as for the saffron brigade and the green-turbaned lashkars they will, Inshallah, bring the Messiah back to earth with a bang and radioactive fireworks ...... but then, as someone who has been exposed to this terrible virus, I cannot deny that it is difficult not to be in awe of burning bushes, leaping corpses and flying horses ........come Ramadhan, I will join the frenzied masses as they try to fast, pray and push their way into heaven .... incoherent ? yes - but then the whole concept is kind of ababeel-brained .....

............ last week, standing in the cellar of one of those ghoulish medieval churches in Europe I looked at the crypt which held the remains of a long-dead archbishop and wondered how many poor people had to die to satisfy his monstrous ego ...... brrrr ! ....... on the other hand, they tell me that the Kaaba is the place to be for serenity, peace and the sheer joy of gushing iman ...... whoa !...... some kafirs say the same about St. Peter`s Bascilica and those horrid temples at Benaras........ however, everyone will agree that Graceland is the true Mecca because this is where He was born - `` For unto you is born this day in the city of Memphis a Presley, which is Elvis the King``

Omar:

Haif! I wrote a long note pointing out few good points whereas few points to look into--Laiken, keyboard did not like the length of the post and baded goodbye. So I will try to jot down my thoughts in detail later. Just to briefly mention:

a) Your intent was worth appreciating, your action wasn`t. I`d never go out and chant any Darus to the PM at such a sensitive time. I`d rather try to schedule a meeting ahead of time or send a note with the issue and see the response. Please tell me what will be the result of this fiasco ? Do not misread me, as disagreeing on your stance about Human Rights/Minority Rights andd etc. Read me as strongly objecting on the steps taken to raise the concern. It was not the General who was visiting there. It was someone who was to represent Pakistan in UN.

b) Your argument on People vs Country, is emotional, patriotic, but very naive! What is a country ? What does it comprise of ? Cement ? Bricks ? Roads ? Soil ? What ?

c) It`s good to know that you are into law. I will like to write a case and would love to read your jurisprudence.

In general, I will repeat your thoughts and points were appreciable and worth addressing, but the implementation approach was not concrete and lasting. You won`t do that to a case, I hope so ?

Take Care