Oh For Those Fries!

w0man!

finally sumone who luvz that zinger as much as i do!!!wat say we meet up and worship it together sumday?

hafta run...i hear the new deal...250 for all u can eat...caaaaaaalling

anNy

p.s= is it just me or are most of the ppl here arguing just f0r the sake of arguing?

Eating disorders due to an obssession with appearance are a sign of a deeper malady. A girl/woman should not depend in such a life-threatening way on the vagaries of others, men or women or magazines for her own feelings of self-worth or feminity.

What if the cause of estrangement were more serious and took place later in life when more was at stake for the woman, in terms of years of love, trust and shared life? Would it make sense for the woman to consider herself worthless enough for razor blades, then? The same argument holds good for men, too.

The fact is that the final word in defining a woman`s feminity or the bigger issue of self-worth ought not be granted by a woman herself to another without a good reason, which I can think of, is love and respect. Then I could agree, the woman is vulnerable for no fault of her own. In most other situations, men and women ought make peace with their own limitations, easier said than done :-). And unfortunately women reflect the mores of the society they live in, as much as men do. Having an influential advertising industry helping set those mores doesnot help.

Its interesting to notice that many men do feel they hold the right to define a woman`s feminity, even of relative strangers. This sometimes reveals itself when there is a difference of opinion on any matter, as a clinching argument to put down the woman, a reference to her `unwomanliness`.

Patriarchal societies defined the identity of a woman for her, by her birth, by her beauty, her marriage, by her children, but then there was some security and autonomy within those limits. The `protection` of those hard-to-impeach boundaries is now diminishing.

IMO, men are similarly circumscribed wrt to others defining their identity for them, but its much less or nothing to do with their masculinity and more to do with their `situation` in life. Now a release from that awaits a `mens liberation movement` , if only they would take time out from obsessing over women :-).

In conclusion, life is not fair and we all do out bit to make it so. And as someone`s placard said outside a beauty pageant `swimming-suit contests are unfair to all women`

Sadhana

slink #32:

Cynicism aside, I blew it initially. I should have known. The doctor who violated my body recently told me about food, weight the whole nine yards.

I should have been extra sensitive and perceptive. I wasn’t. Ayesha carried the narration forward in a deceptively disarming way. By the time blood oozed I was thinking funny Jawahara.

But then what do I know, a man?!

fozia talked of self worth. The way we see issues though our cultural gender oriented prisms it is more than that. Quite fascinating and complex riddle it is.

[..i think you should swap life threatening experiences with arif :)] ---- some day before they lower the casket, promise.....for now can’t hack a flight of over five/six hours...but do tell Arif ...anything behind a skirt and for the sake of flag arguments cut little ice these days...and should and DO work both ways ... same goes for promiscuity ... some engines warm up instantly some take longer ... god, I didn’t create the genders(!)....yes, yes ‘we`re all territorial’

‘but i`m rolling off the issue lane...’ may I? Why do so few of the 50% of 140 milllion can carry themselves well in shalwar-kameez? Surely, it is more than posture awareness....

love,

temporal

jbutler #31

JB:

Dair aayadd; droost aayadd :)

I blew it big time didn’t I? Khair ---- haiN aur bhi ghum zamaanay maiN Kate ke siwa.

Mahajirzadeh has compartmentalized Life in four requisite intermingling chambers: company, food, book and sex. What more can a transient in Hotel Earth ask for? (Work? Heck --- that’s a different orbit!)

Good Company: to play, learn, teach, converse, discuss, sort out, identify, resolve issues generated by existence.
Good Food: whatever the taste buds dictate. Caveat: eat to live not live to eat.
Good Book: really, there are no ‘bad’ books. Using the Shaikh Saadi dictum --- (one can learn from the naive and fools as well mistakes and errors the sane should avoid.)
Good Sex: any consensual act (within broad societal parameters.)

Big time hug and welcome....

---t

re slink #33:

As usual you seem to reserve special treatment for me.Please lighten up.If you had read my post carefully you would have noticed(I hope) that the subject of my ire was that small subsection of women who want it `all` and at the same time too!! Yes there are women being married to the Koran in Pakistan and yes there are women who are chopping off body parts of their husbands and getting off scot-free but that was not the topic under discussion.I had also pointed out the importance of cultural factors in the whole marriage business which you`ve tried to discount.I am merely pointing out the hypcocricy of the feminist banshees when the luck of the draw takes away 36-24-36 to 32-36-24 and men are blamed for the aftermath. God must be male. That`s it.

later

-sac

temporal #17 I think the ladies did not mind one bit. After all, worrying about bodily imperfections - real and imagined - is kind of cute and even healthy for these ladies (unless they carry it to extremes, as in this article, when it becomes merely sick). It is the men who wrote earlier about this article who need to start worrying about themselves, I think: folks who have a belly and a double chin and are proud of it; others who ogle women in malls and are proud of it; others who passed derogatory remarks on someone who has done them no harm (Kate Moss in this case, whoever she is).

sac:

Can someone please tell me what would it take for the less than `genetically gifted` MEN to stop feeling insecure and stop caring about what the world around them thinks about their appearance?

Why do we always leave the male species out of the equation when it comes to discussing looks? Regardless of their looks, most of the guys I’ve known and do know are just as obsessed and insecure as women when it comes to this department. Sometimes it`s at a subconscious level but the insecurity is definitely there. And there are countless men out there who’re suffering from eating disorders for the same reasons as many women. Men are just as susceptible to low self-esteem and misconceptions regarding the perfect figure as women. You mentioned Brad Pitt – he’s Kate Moss for a lot of men. Women stop eating in vain attempts to emulate her while men workout and pump steroids to become like him. The fact that women are more open about this than men is a different matter, but it’s not fair to continue singling out women when it comes to issues related to appearances.

However, your point re women branding men as “shallow and mean” for having unrealistic expectations of them as far as physical appearances are concerned, while they themselves have even higher expectations of men, is valid to an extent. It must be tough on men to struggle to meet these expectations and still face the trauma of rejection. But then it’s not any easier on women either like slink pointed out.

Urstruly #15 :

``It is in their hands to change the perceptions of a man about a ``perfect`` woman. `The hands that rock the craddle......` you know what I mean.”

Haan bhai, pakaa pakaya khaney ki aadat jo hai. Can’t you guys do ANYTHING without our help? ;)

Most of us women have conditioned our perceptions of the “perfect” man according to our needs and desires. For a lot of women looks are not a part of these, while for others the wallet is not a feature. Are the desires and needs of men as shallow as Kate Moss?

-Lubna

sac:

what have you got - a death wish ?

Ayesha:

This left me feeling bothered. If the issue you`re trying to highlight is eating disorders, I hope this is a fictional account. Otherwise the girl needs to get some serious help. Call me insensitive but I`ve always failed to understand the logic behind most of the reasons given by those suffering from eating disorders for their condition. The reasons you seem to be giving are Kate Moss and Men. As sad as it is, perceived notions of the perfect figure and the opposite gender are good enough reasons for most of those who’re suffering from these disorders. Talk about low self-esteem. Are they really worth giving up the fries for? In fact, is there ANYTHING worth giving up food for?

As for the writing, it was well written but I think you over dramatized the story from the razor blade part onwards. Also, your attempts at humour could have been worked at more. But please do keep contributing. It was an interesting read. And thanks for that piece of info on goat tongues – I know someone on whom I’d love to try that. Only problem: goats not easily available where I live.

-Lubna

sac...

``no self respecting woman admits to having a lack of suitors.`` i dont think anyone with any kind of self respect, whether woman or man, would brag about their suitors. anyone who does so is indeed shallow. also, if your comment is directed at women in general (as opposed to the oh so traditional examples of classic eastern woman we have on chowk), the only point you succeed in making is that you live in a box... a very small box..in somebodys armpit...and the sweaty hair follicles are obscuring your vision and prventing you from seeing that in our part of the world a significant percentage of women have no part in deciding who they`re going to marry. agar rishtay ki baat hoti hai to everyone doesn`t traipse merrily to the boys house and watch him bring in tea or lift up the napkin over his head to examine his features. might i also suggest you scan the matrimonial section of any newspaper. ``my sister..fair..beautiful..domesticated`` as opposed to ``my son..MBA..seeks fair, pretty girl with eastern values and a green card.`` it`s entirely possible we have a genuine complaint.women are still being married to the koran.
however, that doesn`t mean that men are the only ones who`ve contributed to the establishment and subsequent maintainance of the status quo.

ayesha,

welcome to chowk.it`s good to see you writing about something other than movies.
my initial response to the article was to wonder whether the use of humour actually took away from such a theme, after scanning the replies i see i was wrong. other women seem to have understood. do keep posting on chowk.

temp..about the reference to the days when you were inexperienced and naive and actually gave honest answers to the questions your wife asked you..i think you should swap life threatening experiences with arif :) the best defense he has offered to date is `just because you`ve ordered doesn`t mean you can`t look at the menu,` a statement that makes me see red because it`s all too easy to indulge ourselves under the umbrella of `we men can`t help it.` of course you can. what makes men think they`re the only ones drawn to..well...anything that moves. someone made a reference to a newsweek with sex on the city on the cover, another recent issue carried a story detailing how recent discoveries suggest the female is generally the more promiscuos of most species. you could argue that our traditions are based on a realization of this and an unwillingness to share the fruits of sexual independence, otherwise why set up a structure that divorces women from opportunity?
if y`ll wish to ogle at one woman when in a relationship with another one at least be subtle about it. we`re all territorial in one way or another, just because women dont pee on trees to mark the boundaries of their kingdoms doesn`t mean they dont want respect for it`s borders.

but i`m rolling off the issue lane. the issue is eating disorders, and quite frankly i dont think thats a problem in most of Pakistan yet. unless not eating healthy food or having to give the prime half to a male member of the family can be considered an eating disorder. if anything, being thin in pakistan is frowned upon, people see a skinny woman and they want to feed her. if kate moss came to pakistan she`d probably be force fed.

women talking about food, big feet, small breasts, bad posture etc is no more trivial than men releasing testosterone by engaging in pointless cyclical arguments about religion, kashmir and politics that have little to do with compassion and reason and more to do with scoring points. there`s a certain kind of barnyard fowl that swells it`s chest and flutters it`s plumage...
anyone who takes this article as representative of every womans mindset is only demonstrating their ignorance of all things feminine. we`d like to give you this much importance, we really would, but of the 500 women who`ve commited suicide in pakistan so far this year, 60% did it because of economic despair.

re zahra #18 and scout(who as usual is causing a storm in a teacup):

``Why should a woman(or man) get married?`` I think the answer is dependent more on cultural factors than most of us believe. Pushing aside our home countries, out in the west I agree that there is no absolute reason for one to get married(temporal`s ode notwithstanding :) Since there is more of a level economic playing field, one sex should not have a greater urge to tie the knot than the other. Reality is maybe a little different. When someone who famously proclaimed ``A man to a woman is what a bicycle is to fish`` gets married at the ripe old age of 66 one stops and wonders why? I don`t have a problem with women proclaiming their independence from men. What I have a problem with are the reasons given for hating them. Men are accused of being shallow and holding women to unattainable physical standards hence bulimia and anorexia and low self-esteem..........and further on we read juvenile attempts like this to heap scorn on their favourite targets.

Here is what amuses me to no end. No self-respecting woman(married or unmarried) admits to having a lack of suitors. Most of them are proud of the fact that they turned down so many of their potential beaus for various reasons ranging from baldness to lack of financial ambition. And yet when men turn down women because they lack the looks of Cindy Crawford or the figure of Christy Turlington they are branded as shallow and mean and out to destroy the self-image of the women......HUH?????? Nobody stops and thinks about the ``jazbaat`` of those potential suitors :) Shouldn`t they be lining outside GQ magazine complaining about the hits to their self-esteem?

When women look for Brad Pitt look alikes with a wallet to match they are looking for brain and brawns and when men look for Sonali Bindre`s missing twin sister they are accused of living in a fantasy world ........HUH????

Till the time evolution,cybersex or medicine renders one of the sexes completely useless in the grand scheme of things I am afraid we are stuck with one another. And unfortunately me and my brethren will continue to be held responsible for the ``plight`` of the bulimic women-folk.

later

-sac

P.S: Now will you please answer my question?

Dear temporal

Although I have had good intentions for a long time, being a guftar ka ghazi but not of kirdar, have never interacted on chowk before. However, I could not help myself but to convey this sentiment today. Despite of all my respect and admiration for you, aaj to aapnay mood kharab kardiya. How can you not know Kate Moss?

Disappointingly yours,

Javed

I liked it! Very good flow and good details of her emotional state of mind. I found the suicide attempt a bit too dramatic of an ending. Basically we were cruising along listen to her trials and tribulations about her weight and then next thing you know... she`s slashing her wrists!

I find it interesting that no mention was made of how ``good looking`` the guy was relative to the protagonist. Apparently the self-worth of a woman depends on the attentions of any man regardless of what he`s like. Hey we don`t even know if he was rich... Personally I would think that guy is rather dweeby if he`s ``drooling`` over a picture-typical teen boy behavior.

From a female perspective, I`m often puzzled myself as to how a guy would find a skeleton such as Kate Moss attractive. And then such women try to defy nature by artificially ``enhancing`` certain parts of their anatomy to a size more common in women with more weight.

I suspect that Kate Moss types are more attractive in a picture (remember photos show people heavier than they actually are!!) I`m sure once a guy would actually have the opportunity to hug a stick, that he`ll revert back to the more natural fleshy women! :)

adios...

Fozia

I and my wife were walking in the mall when a anorexic beauty in tight jeans passed by us. I had a passing look at her behind which ofcourse was noticed by Mrs. It was not a big deal like I have not looked at another woman(girl) before in wife`s presence but 5 minutes later we passed in front of a Fitness equipment store. Now this mall is in our town and I never even noticed that this store is there and I am sure so didn`t my wife. She first time in all our visits to the mall walked into the Fitness equipment store. I right away realised the reason behind it. It took me next 3 hours to convince her that I looked at ``her`` not because she is sexier, better looking or anything blah blah but just because she passed by us and she was different. I swear, and wife is not reading it anyways, that my wife at her age of 32 had a much more attractive figure than 99% of the woman of her age I know and looks much than her age...but...that 1% kills her...doesn`t it.

On the other hand, it never bothers me that I have a sagging tummy and growing double chin.......I too watch TV and read magazines. Women are indeed intersting species. I love them.

Urstruly #15, ``Has anyone noticed that there has been a string of writings on Chowk, by female writers, where food is the main topic, literally or metaphorically.``

That`s interesting, because I personally am always eating lunch or dinner when I read or interact on Chowk. Chowk and food go together on my schedule.

Like, Oh My God, this is so freaky ya know!

Zehra #18,

Good points about that Time magazine article. I think men are in denial that women can live happily without them.