Joint Indo-Pak School History Textbook on the Web

Anil #49 Your points are interesting and Anjali`s story is a good one. However, I think what is being attempted here is something much more specific: to write a history of the sub-continent that is co-authored by Indians and Pakistanis, and which aims to be as objective as possible. I`ll go over your story of Anjali later (got to run now)...

Daudpota #55 you write ``THE HISTORY PROJECT ITSELF WILL HAVE TO BE STRICTLY MODERATED``

First, on the substance: how do you propose to ``strictly moderate`` the project? I would suggest structuring the discussion by creating sub-topics as they emerge in the discussion.

Also, I am a bit disappointed at your slow response. You need to facilitate this discussion, and that means not just counting with satisfaction the 50 posts your topic has so far generated, but actually taking the trouble to respond to them in a timely manner and otherwise actively managing it (e.g. by creating sub-topics as mentioned above). If you think you can play the role of moderator, great, else I think someone else (Bilal Ahmed or temporal, e .g.) should be asked to be the moderator on your behalf.

Second, on the form: I sincerely hope that you will take temporal`s good advice and never, ever shout (i.e. use caps) again on the internet. We can all read mixed case, and they are easier on the eyes.

In response to Umairr`s query, Chowkwallas have posted some excellent explanations of BJP`s rise to power...

All said and done, however, we (i.e., all Pakistanis or Indians who oppose making religion the fulcrum around which everything else in a country revolves) should not lose sight of a basic point (extrapoloated from Umairr`s post): parties that come to power for economic reasons should not be allowed to overstep the boundaries of fairness in social/religious spheres.

Reminds me of the dilemma Republics face in the US.

Great idea!

Allah/Ishwar/God speed to all involved.

Hazrat Isa: #55

[DEAR INHABITANTS OF THE CHOWK:]

Huzoor:

Bura na maanaiN tou ik choti si gustaakhi karooN?

Chowk say log guzartay haiN, mulaqaat kartay haiN, pand-o-nasihat, waaz, ya bakwaas bhee kartay haiN. Laikin yahan koi rehta nahiN hay.

Yakeen na ho to istikhara kar lijiyay.

Ik baat aur.

Shru’faa capital laf’z net pur nahiN istimaal kartay haiN. Net kay bhee aadaab hotay hain. Yahan pur capital lafz maiN likhi hooie baat roz murrah ke istimaal maiN cheekhnay chillanay kay mutabadil hoti hay. Aur aap ko aur hum ko tou pata hee hay kay cheekhtay woh haiN jin kay paas kehnay soonnay ko kuch nahiN hota hay.

khuda hafez,

temporal ba-keyboard-e-khud

Folks:

There is another article by Hazrat Isa:

National Institute of Information Technology
Isa Daudpota
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2000-daily/29-09-2000/oped/o6.htm
______________________________________
And since we ARE talking about history you can check out:

Musharraf on Hamood report
Nasim Zehra
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2000-daily/29-09-2000/oped/o5.htm

---t

Sent via email by the author:


DEAR INHABITANTS OF THE CHOWK:

I HAVE NOW READ THE 50 PLUS COMMENTS TO DATE. IT IS NICE TO SEE THE VOLUME OF MAIL, BUT SOME OF IT WAS TANGENTIAL TO THE PROPOSED PROJECT. COMMENTS
ARE ATTACHED TO ALL THE ONES THAT REQUIRED FEEDBACK. APOLOGIES FOR HAVING ACCIDENTALLY OVERLOOKED SOME. THE HISTORY PROJECT ITSELF WILL HAVE TO BE STRICTLY MODERATED, UNLIKE THE
FREE-FLOWING DISCUSSION AT CHOWK.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS AND INTEREST.

ISA DAUDPOTA

ON FAISALABAD,

Faisalabad is an important city in pakistan, named in honour of saudis. The place also has a very good police system, must be again the saudi islamic fundamental system. The following is from dawn of today, no comments.

FAISALABAD: 56 suspects arrested for killing constable

By Our Staff Correspondent

FAISALABAD, Sept 28: Gulberg police on Thursday arrested 56 suspects from various parts of the city on the charge of killing a constable.

/// there was an article by a wellknown pak journalist about an indian news item, I forgot the authors name....the above report is not funny enough. Just down right cruel...to the 56. How many pakistanis does it take to k..

REQUEST TO DELAY,

I have a request to the authors, please delay the writing of the revised version of pak history. There has been no foreign capital flows into pakistan in the last two years, locals are liquidating the capital and taking it out, nearly a billion dollar of pak exports has not been repatriated, educated and the able bodied are leaving. The times are not good to write a history, wait a few years, if everything goes well another four years, and you two can write the epitah. I have put the money in a trust account.

From news line of today

But what is hurting and hurting badly is BWIs` (Bretton Woods Institutions) operational boycott of Pakistan. The latter has been denied all disbursements --- not a cent has been received since May `98 -- while it is compelled to go on paying to them. Last year alone Pakistan paid $ 350 million or more to them in repayments of past credits.

Meanwhile all aid is on hold. Virtually no foreign investments are coming in. Thanks to the overall uncertainties local investors are also shy, not to mention the business community`s still continuing feuds with the new regime over its accountability measures. Net effect of this is to scare away all investors, especially foreign.

But an unintended, or perhaps intended, result is that possible local investors are liquidating their assets and are taking them out of Pakistan. The speed of capital flight from Pakistan during the last six months has assumed alarming proportions. And it is still accelerating.

Pakistan economy has remained in a recession for the last four years or even more -- bumper crops being an exception -- and with this panic flight of capital the chances of its recovering might recede.

FOLLOW THE LEADER LOGIC,

From the educated to the illiterate, pakistanis are unique, they never take responsibility for their actions. It is all because of india, and india is not taking the lead, they will shoot themselves in the head.

Look at the proposal by the authors, if there is any problems with the pak texts, they can correct it, no one is opposing. But to the pak mind, they are not responsible, it is because of india. So for the pak texts to be chamged, indian texts have to be changed. The TNT thnking.

Look at the bomb, it is because of india. CTBT, no pakistan wont sign, till india signs. Jihadists are killing kashmiris, because indians are killing them.

One has to be thankful to Jinnah for having collected the spineless out of india for slow cruel execution.

I wouldn`t trust the ex-commies turned liberals to re-write Pakistan`s history.

No true Desh Premi Indian would accept that there is anything wrong with their version of history, regardless of what Hazrat Isa might say.

Sorry for the ``sarqa`` Mr. T.

During my 14 years in the US, I haven`t met a single Indian who acknowledged that he/she was a BJP/RSS/VHP supporter. All of them claim to be secular, tolerant and liberal. The pariwar is an aberration, without the support of the majority, fanatics in the midst of gentle, tolerant hindus. BJP can`t change the secular Mother India because they are dependent on their coalition partners and will be booted out of power the day the secularists get their act together, they are in power because people got sick of COngress mis-rule...etc.etc.

But then check out the fund raiser by the local VHP chapter. Yessir, the beige Camrys and Accords of the peace loving secular friends are parked right outside.

Baghal mein churri mu mein Ram Ram!

Dear tahmed321 (#29)

Dear slink (#15)

I am unable to frequent Chowk as often as I would like, as a result I am late in responding, please accept my appologies.

Before I articulate my vision of South Asian Leadership Council, allow me to say that: tahmed321, it is not yet another peace organization; and

slink, no it would not belong to any political parties.

THE CHALLENGE:

1. South Asia must leap frog the digital divide and enter into Knowledge Economy. It can be done. South Asia has good educational system to jump start (skeptics can laugh and say Pakistan only has Madarsas).

2. Secular and pluralistic leadership existed in South Asia. These people are in majority in South Asia, this is my gut assessment. Although a glance at recent boards at Chowk would indicate to the contrary.

3. The challenge is to reach to the secular and pluralistic feelings in the people.

THE VISION:

1. The political independence was won by English trained lawyers (Gandhi, Jinnah, Nehru, Patel to name the few). The knowledge entreprenuers must now deliver economic independence.

2. To great majority the religion is a private matter until it is fanned into frenzy by intellectuals on the Internet, politicians on the streets, and mullah`s in the mosque (appologize for picking on mullahs - I could not rhyme it with temple), I include religious fanatics.

3. Take Internet Intellectuals out of keyboard critics.

4. Empower secular and pluralitic minded South Asian women with leaderhip abilities and give them means to spread basic education among poorer girls and women in South Asia. The basic education that is appropriate for the community and not imposed by any religious doctrine or government authority.

5. Combine the basic education with simple knowledge to build self supporting micro-business enterprises, so that these women can support their families.

6. The basic education at the grass-root level will help bring the left-side of the bell-curve to the main-fold.

AN EXAMPLE:

One of our family friend, Dr. Anjali Pathak, is a Cardiologist at Stanford. Anjali, when studying in a medical college in Bhopal had a muslim lab. assistant, who lived in a poor muslim neighborhood of Bhopal. Once Anjali and the lab. assistant decided to provide basic education to illiterate muslim girls in the poor muslim neighborhood where the lab. assistant lived.

Both them braved - I should let Anjali describe it more vividly - and reached the neighborhood, and started talkling to people to hold classes to teach simple reading, writing and arithmatic to girls. The girls were extremely enthusiastic, but the mullah came down from the mosque and called the lab. assistant to a side and told him to take the lady along and go away as he would not allow Anjali to teach local girls anything. He threatened the lab. assistant if he did not follow the instructions then the mullah would get neighborhood men together and prevent both of them from teaching.

The lab. assistant got scared and asked Anjali to leave along with him. Both of them left, but decided to come back. The next time they chose to go straight to the oldest lady of in the neighborhood to talk. Anjali asked her if she could read or write. The old lady`s obvious answer was that she could not, then Anjali asked would it not be nice if the young girls knew basic reading, writing and arithmatic. The old lady said, yes it wold be very good, but the mullah and the male of the neighborhood would not let that happen.

The old lady then paused and said that they could come during the day time and teach the girls, because all the males would be gone to work, and mullah alone would not be able to do much, as he would be no match for the old lady alone.

Anjali and the lab. assistant started going during the day and started basic education program in the neighborhood. Currently, according to Anjali, this program has now been adopted by Bhopal`s medical college and third year medical students have continued it and earn college credit also.

Anjali also said that initially the mullah would come down from the mosque to stare at the lab. assistant, the old lady and her. However, after a while he also realized it was futile and gave up.

The new breed of leadership that people like Anjali have provided to empower young girls is simply unmatched. This leadership does not make intellectuals into arm-chair (or keyboard) critics, instead their energy is properly channelled. Just imagine, YLH, Sarwari, Jay and others could easily spend their time and energy empowering poor girls in their community.

Who cares whose God is better, whether Jinnah is better than Gandhi, or Indian democracy is a sham or Pakistani Generals have better solution. Just ask those muslim girls who came out after attending the class given by a hindu lady, whether they felt more empowered. Or else ask that old lady how she maintained peace in the neighborhood and still got her way to equip poor muslim girls with basic education. Ask all of them if they really care whether intellectuals of South Asia have found the answer to whose God is great, whether Jinnah is....

Thank you

Anil Kapuria

Anil@Kapuria.COM

tahmed:u got me there.That was a typo.Thought of typing 100 crores instead ended up typing 100 billion.i realized after pressing the send button.

I think a joint Indo Pak textbook on the net is a brilliant idea. I would love to be included in the project as a commentator- and would love to see the guidelines to the writers for various chapters. I think this is a really a much needed corrective and the net is the ideal place for it where it will be accessible to people on both sides of the border. After it is written it should have maximum publicity so that students especially are aware of it. Good Luck. Hamida Khuhro

FYI:

Umairr:

Since you are interested in the subject pls. check out
RSS and its Early Days
Ramesh N. Rao