Joint Indo-Pak School History Textbook on the Web

Foqia, Q. Isa and the Rest:

I came across a website dealing with the history of Pakistan in some detail. It is:

http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/main.html



Are you managing this site or familiar with it? The quality of material is much better than usual textbooks variety and aside from critical of Brahmanical Hinduism, most material is pretty objective. Please visit this site and learn some areas of our history, many of us may not be familiar with. I think this website provides a prototype of the style, you are planning to write.

Some of the topics covered here are in great detail, for example, the historical origins of the people of Pakistan.

Please also read an excellent article by Dr. Tariq Rehman about the origin of different languages of Pakistan. The title of the article is ``People and Languages of Pre-Islamic Indus Valley`` at the following address:

http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/peoplesandlanguages.html

Rsaxena #76: I know in India a couple of wealthy NRIs are building free hospitals and schools with no assistance from the government...in fact they were asked for bribes to get permits. In any case, efforts like that are a drop in the otherwise empty bucket.

There`s a few orgs that started in the last few years and based in US that are funding the NGO projects. It may be peanuts, but the fact that it takes about a decade to stabilize such orgs and the effort and time put in by working individuals must mean something? Drops add up ...

Its another thing if we like to wallow in self-pity, and wax eloquent about our helplessness! (I do this too - may be just another subcontinental trait)

Pankaj #77 Your post certainly increased my knowledge of the Kanpur politics.

Based on this, I draw the following conclusions: (a) A gap was created between Hindus and Muslims in Kanpur as muslim extremists succeeded in pressuring the Congress government to allow ``muslim`` family laws to supersede the civil laws.

(b) This gap widened due to Babri mosque destruction as hindu extremists succeeded in pressuring the Congress government to look the other way.

(c) Things escalated with anti-hindu riots in Chamanganj.

(d) Indian muslims are seen (even by yourself) as having divided loyalties.

I have the following comments, based on the above understanding of the Kanpur politics:

(a) While congress may have seemed as if it was appeasing muslims or hindus, in fact it was appeasing only the extremists among them. For example, did anyone ask muslims to give a referendum on the issue of ``muslim`` laws, or for hindus to give a referendum on the issue of Babri masjid? I would bet that had a referendum been taken, muslims would have rejected the ``muslim`` laws and hindus would have rejected the storming of the Babri masjid. (I put quotes against ``muslim`` laws, since a comparison of them with the teachings of the Quran would have shown them to be quite unIslamic anyway, and simply the male chauvinistic views of some individuals.)

(b) You feel that there are many Indian muslims who have warm feelings for Pakistan. So what? The problem is not their warm feelings for Pakistan, but the hostilities between Pakistani and Indian governments. Italian-Americans can love both Italy and the US, so having warm feelings for one place or culture does not mean not having similar feelings for other places or culture.

When it comes to bringing people together, Governments are not going to be able do it - not Congress, as we have seen, nor BJP from whatever I can tell, nor any Pakistani government so far. However, the growth of the middle class and other global developments may make the Hindu-Muslims rifts as well as the Pakistan-India rifts obsolete over time.

What is important is this: In the meantime, ordinary people like you and me need to try and not allow the extremists on either side to set the agenda of conflict. Instead, we need to realize the utter stupidity of such conflicts and of the hate-mongers. The internet provides us with one way to keep light tiny beacons of peace and friendship and respect for all beliefs and cultures. Over time, I have no doubt, these beacons will join others and will one day Inshallah become a mighty light that chase away the darkness of ``jahalat`` that has enveloped this land for too long.

Re Tahmed

The crux of the whole affair, as far as I perceive were some of the pseudosecularist policies of Congress that sought to win ``Vote Bank`` by appeasing extremist elements from both religions. Unfortunately once this genie of fundamentalism is out of the bottle, it is difficult to put it back. What was even more tragic that Muslims got very little in this bargain as well as Hindus. Many Hindus failed to understand that one more temple will not eliminate their problems which are well known. Similarly by giving in to extremism, Muslims were unable to exact any promise from Congress for the real development of their community.

Since partition Indian Muslims had an ambivalent feelings towards India. They probably feel insecure from overwhelming Hindu population.

It is a well known psychological fact that a community feeling insecure, rallies behind extremist elements. You may be surprised to know that many Indian Muslims vote more on the basis of what is decreed(fatwa) by Imam from Jama Masjid or local Masjids. This was indeed the point that BJP used to instigate Hindus to polarise on the line of Muslims. You may probably also be knowing how inept politicians fool people in the name of caste among Hindus to win elections. There are very few leaders in Muslim community who realise the importance of modern education and tolerence. Muslim community by and large has alienated itself from the mainstream. I guess you will agree with me that praising Pakistani team with an open heart is one thing(that most of us do) and celebrating it in the streets or taking out processions is another. Dont you think that acts like this only serve to confirm the irartional suspicions and fears of the Hindus. Muslims might want to change their role models to Abdul Hamid, Abdul Kalam,Aziz Premji(Wipro CEO) and progress rather heed to Imams and remain backward.

When I went to school, I had a Muslim classmate Mohd Asif Khan and we had very good terms. Even now, there is an educated Muslim family beside our house close to Jajmau, and we exchange sweets of Deewali and Id. It is notable that inspite of whole Kanpur burning, Lal Bangla+Jajmau area didn`t have a single riot. I attribute it to the educated and liberal Muslims+Hindus in this area. It is only by learning to respect each other that we can live in peace and progress.

I hope that with time and economic progress, some intelligent Muslim leaders will

come forward to make people realise the imp of modern education and economic development and prevent their use as ``Vote Bank`` by selfish demagogues. Same thing can be said about Hindus.

I am disillusioned with the whole Indian politics of ``Vote Bank`` in which the corrupt politicians divide people in the name of religion, caste etc to consolidate their votes. My only hope is that people someday will realise that constructing a Mandir or Masjid is not a solution to everyday problems. And elect proper leaders who focus on development. I hope for the day when people will no longer vote along caste or religion lines, when they demand concrete work from their represenatives. In short, I hope for a day when Brutus wins and Mark Antony is vanquished.

Cheers

Based upon my casual and partial reading, I commend both Pankaj and TAhmad for their effort to provide much needed understaning of the Indian religious/communal politics vis a vis the Muslims. Please keep it up!

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

How ironic! that Pankaj`s post echoes Mr Jinnah`s speech of 1920 Congress Nagpur session made in opposition to Mr Gandhi`s involvement in Khilafat Movement and his noncooperation Movement.

Yasser Hamdani

Dear Chowk: due to workload, I did not get into this forum until now. I wholeheartedly appreciate this idea. I am not sure how I can be of any use, my background is in Engineering, and have read very little history. However, if I can be of any assistance, you know where I am located from my user ID, and feel free to contact.

Jay #81, you are an intelligent man with wits matching only with Hamidm here (judging from your posts only). Please refrain from adding salt to the injury. This is not going to take us anywhere.

Paging for gymno, Sadhna, Zeemax, Farangikush, yes where is Farangikush?

Regards

cheraym

The premier Pakistani publication at Rutgers

Cut`n`paste, of which I am the co editor, can now be accessed from

http://www.siqafat.cjb.net

CENSORSHIP- PAK STYLE,

In the `nation` of today, in the opinion column there is an open letter to vajpaye. The details of the author, in the last two lines have been blued out for censorsip. Stll faintly legible, the author is the leader of a jihadic organisation. Internet censor ship, pak style and this is original, a real contribution to IT from pakistan.

aicha #31 and tahmed #30

Dear aicha

a) Well aicha , I want to ask you if it is possible for a non muslim to practise his religion in Saudi Arabia. A hindu cant take pictures of his GOd etc inside S. Arabia. people go to US and other countries for work9ex pats) but are free to practise their religion. Surely there is no danger to S. arabia if someone prays to his God in his house or in a religious place.

b) you are very true when u say that Indians / Pakistanis are given 3rd rate treatment in mid east. The only difference is that the Indians dont try to trace their history / ancestory to the arabs. Which the pakistanis try quite streneously!!!!! without any results.

c) Aicha, why does not democracy take root in the Islamic republics? because the essential ingredient of democracy `tolerance` is missing.

d) aicha, do you also believe that conversion of native Indians to Islam was peaceful and without force?

e) I wish I could give link where this kashmiri militants naming themselves Abu ...... to sound more arabic.

I will appreciate a point wise rebuttal.

Dear tahmed,

Dont worry if I am fake or not.

But please announce it to the forum that the K for .. and J or Z for .. is not taught in Pakistan. The fountainhead of hatred lies in the place called `land of the pure` and no where else.

Pl let all of us know why a non muslim cant become the PM or President or the Army chief. unless of course you have `peacefully` converted everybody.

Indians dont teach that muslims are Kafirs and fit to be killed. The kids in indian school sing

`Ishwar Allah tero naam, sabko sumati ( good sense) de bhagwan`. Quite unlike the madressa educated cyber jehadis from the `land of the pure`!!!!

yasser,

just surfed over to the ``siqafat`` website for a few. I often disagree with what you say but my respect for you has increased.

Keep it up, bro.

Prem

BTW there is no doubt that Aurangzeb was a villan. In fact he was one of the greates tyrant.

Historical accuracy in Pakistani social studies textbooks is often less important than ideology. In Pakistan, all students are required to take courses called Pakistan Studies and must pass standardized tests based on that curriculum. There are numerous textbooks published under the title, Pakistan Studies, which are, in general, a composite of patriotic discourses, justification of the Two-Nation Theory, Muslim heroes, and discussions of the superiority of Islamic principals over Hinduism. Pakistan Studies as a compulsory subject at the secondary and college level came in to being during the regime of General Zia-ul-Haq. The textbooks authored to reflect his mandates are decidedly anti-democratic and anti-ethnic, inclined to dogmatic tirades and filled with oxymorons and internal contradictions, and they are still in use in today`s Pakistan. Pakistani nationalism is characterized by ironies and contractions.

The manipulation of the media and the twisted historical discourse found in Pakistani Social Studies textbooks present multiple inconsistencies and oxymorons. In contemporary Pakistani textbooks the historical narrative is quite naturally, based on the Two Nation Theory. The story of the nation begins with the advent of Islam when Mohammed-bin-Qazim arrived in Sindh followed by Mahmud of Ghazni storming through the Khyber Pass, 16 times, bringing the ``Light of Islam to the infidels`` who converted en mass to escape the evil domination of the ``cruel Brahmins``. Reviewing a selection of textbooks published since 1972 in Pakistan will verify the assumption that there is little or no discussion of the ancient cultures that have flowed
in the land that is now Pakistan, such as Taxila and Mohenjo-Daro. In general, any mention of Hinduism is inevitably accompanied by derogatory critiques, and none of the greatness of Indic civilization is considered--not even the success of Chandragupta Maurya, who defeated, or at least frightened the invading army of Alexander the Great at the banks of the Beas River where it flows through the land that is now called Pakistan. These events are deemed meaningless since they are not about Muslim heroes. There is an elision in time between the moment Islam first arrived in Sindh and Muhammad Ali Jinnah. According to A.H. Nayyar a professor at Quaid-e-Azam University, ``What is important in the exercise is the faithful transmission, without any criticism or re-evaluation, of the particular view of the past which is implicit in the coming to fruition of the `Pakistan Ideology.```

History and social studies textbooks in Pakistan glorify the exploits of Muhammad-bin-Qazim, who is credited with bringing Islam and Arab culture to South Asia through the Indus Valley corridor.
In reality, Mohammed-bin-Qazim beheaded most men above the age of eighteen in several cities in Sindh. He captured thousands of Sindhi women and sent them to harems in the Abbasid kingdom. Pre-Islamic Sindhis fought valiantly against these foreign invaders, in fact repelling about fifteen raiding attempts by Arab armies to invade Sindh, before Muhammad-bin- Qazim was finally successful.

Manoj!

Your words are beautiful.

I hope word could fill the stomach of the world whether truth or lies.

But it needs actions. And so for all things.

Bombay riots were Hindu Muslim riots. Thousands were killed.

In New Dehli thousands of Sikhs were killed.

In Kashmir unfortunately the INDIGENT Hizbul-Mujahideen of interim period is now Pakistani militants. Hundreds of thousands killed.

Daily killing of Muslims, low caste hindus, christians, burning of churches, demolition of mosques etc. (And don`t tell they are lie)

Do I believe your words or your actions.

Krashid

You may not be correct. Mosques are not demolished in India on a daily basis.(give me an example other than Babri Masjid). Also except for Bihar where there is a caste war between upper castes represented by Ranvir Sena and lower castes representsd by Naxalites and Marxists revolutionery army, there is no institutionalised killings of lower castes in any other part of India. Although extremely lower castes such as Harijans still face some social discrimination(note ``social``) they are advantaged group when it comes to govt jobs in which they have 50% reservation.(Backwards:27% Sc/ST: 22.5%). So I dont find your statements accurate.

Sincerely