Hidden Hindus

Fuzair #266:

Thanks for putting it so succinctly and accurately.

Sigalph235 #261:

IMHO, Cabinet Mission wouldnot have worked. Partition was the best option in that situation and I personally am glad that it happened. Had it not both (all three now) would have been much more unstable with the damocele`s sword of separation of Muslim majority provinces hanging on everyone`s head, all the time. Atleast in present day India, seccession is a heresy and everyone agrees on that.

Satyavadi

Satyavadi

Kalki,

And in one of our neighbouring countries

C is for caste Hindu

S is for Shudar

D is for depressed classes

U is for UNTOUCHABLES!

So lets not even get into this ok?

SAB

By making a statement like ``for once YLH has asked a valid question?`` you are only hurting the credibility of my argument. Despite all shouting screaming and fighting that has gone on, no one has called my questions invalid. Perhaps the only recent question I had asked was and that was the other thread also,

``Why do we have to approach history from a theatrical perspective of good vs evil because that is not how History is ... History should be appraoched from a Historical perspective?``

Please tell me how in the name of god is that an invalid question.

I have always written on the basis of facts and have always quoted pages from books. To accuse me like this you are only strengthening the hands of the likes of Rsaxena who come here only to create trouble.

Please be fair!

Yasser Hamdani

Re: All

This is getting interesting...

When will the real insults fly...Jay, are you reloading or just hunkering down for a lapse in the fighting to lob a few more verbal shells?

Thanks Jay! Thanks for posting Pak papers here, because this way, I do not have to access their sites! You are real pal! Keep the hate the brimming!

Ciao!

Yoon to apni param para ka, apnay itehas ka apman ho ga. Mun hai kay baitha jata hay.

Dhuniavad

buddh-jan
Itni chinta karne ki aavashyatkaa nahin.
Shukriya

sab #263 :

[Think of me as one of those annoying orange blobby things you sometimes see out of the corner of your eye. Two foot soldiers have dropped out, It’s only fitting that two of the faceless multitude move forward to cover the gaps till they return.]

---Orange blooby things? Hardly! I see them too, sometimes, when under certain stresses. But they float AND don’t communicate. You do, and well. Please stay even after the foot soldiers return. Don’t know about Sadhna. (If you’re reading this Sadhna please write temporal3@hotmail.com) Shandy is away I suspect for other reasons. But she’ll be back.

If you think you will get a point by point rebuttal from jay thackeray or more relevantly if he will mend his condition then I WILL start believing in miracles.

He thrives on generating cosmic negativity and hate. In a perverse way he feeds on hate and discord that he creates.

I admire and salute your passion and concern when you say,“ arguing for the sake of arguing or self projection..... Stop passing the buck of responsibility, be aware of the interconnectedness of all things....start by applying the notion of open mind-open heart to themselves........you isolate your self behind a veneer of cynicism and negativity and seek to make all things familiar by infusing those into all conversations you enter into. What will it take to draw you out of it?..... You have been coaxed, cajoled, pleaded with, threatened and abused, other Indians have been true enough to themselves as human beings to be able to say ‘peace, at least on the net’, yet something always stops you. When animosity de-escalates you jump out of the woodwork like a deranged road runner, do a hate filled ‘beep beep’ and whiz off into the sunset. Why this need to draw negative attention to yourself for no other reason than to negate a possible truce..even if it is only a cyber truce? What is your motive? ..... what about the evolution of jay? is he self-condemned to remain stagnant in his own beliefs and attitudes? ........Again, what are your motives? The consistency with which you pursue an agenda of senseless provocation throws up a world of unpleasant possibilities. When I read your posts I get a sense of a person tottering on the brink of some revelation fighting desperately to make sure his horizons don’t change.......``

and

``.... so..for the first and last time..i ask you, as a fellow human being and not as a representative of any country, religion or political agenda…to free yourself from the shackles of your own prejudice and share the other side of your personality with us. Chowk is not a Pakistani site, and chowk is not an Indian site. Perhaps I presume too much in saying this is your cyber home too, but the frequency of your posts suggest it is. All I ask is that you treat it the same way you treat your home in ‘the real world’..by taking garbage and refuse outside instead of dumping it on the sofa......``

And now the beep-beep and whiz off into the sunset.........

regards,

temporal

I have a bad feeling that Indians are drastically gonna change their strategy on this front. My estimate is that its gonna happen in a about next three weeks.

The only thing that I cant figure out is the reason why?

Scully! do you have any idea why?

Best regards,
Agent Fox Mulder.

Re: Sigalph #231

I agree completely with Sigalph, the Pakistani state, in effect, officially sanctions discrimination against non-Muslims, however defined, and that is what makes us worse than the Indians or the Bangladeshis. Of course there is massive discrimination there but it is not sanctioned by the state. With us, it is the state that is the prime culprit.

dost mittar,

I`m just relaying my personal preference yaar:) That doesnt mean that I`m the world`s ultimate food critic.

Just curious, have you ever eaten in a resturant in Pakistan?

I consider myself lucky to be born to very liberal parents. Eventhough we are supposedly Brahmins, my folks gave more importance to the belief in God, not the rituals that came along with the religion. I even managed to convince dear mom to cook beef at home. Fortunately, my wife`s family is the same. There is nothing more heavenly than a thick juicy steak.

Too bad no Hindu priest proclaimed a fatwa against me; I would have loved to kick his sanctimonious butt.

In my personal experience, most non-veg Hindus shun not only beef, but pork too.

My most memorable meal was when my Goan Christian friend & I visited his native village in Goa. This village was situated on one of the most beautiful pristine beeches in Goa, far away from the popular tourist beeches. They dug a pit in the sand, filled it with coals & roasted a pigling over the open BBQ pit, basting it with all sorts of spices. Everytime you bit into the meat, it would explode with flavor. Man, it was better than sex:)

BAhmed, 262.

The best ever ``hyderabadi`` Biriyani was served at my friend Tanveera Ahmeds wedding in Madras back in 1989. All other attempets that I have been fortunate enough to savour from Manhattan to Sydney, Kanyakumari to Kashmir have fallen short of that exacting standard. India offers a great variety of tasty cuisine from Goan to Kerala, Coorgi to Bengali and everything in between. Boy, all this talk of food is getting me hungry! I think I`ll fry up some spicy prawn masala...care to join me? The invitation is open to one and all and of course I`ll rustle up some veg food for those who choose not to partake ``pleasures of the flesh``!

JAY Reply #: 245

”. Internet is an isolating technology, one can search for views similar to yours from a smogasboard of ideas and down load them and feel that your views are shared by many”

Actually, the internet is not an isolating technology unless the user in still in the early stages of mental and emotional development and hence is unable to place situations and conversations in context. I think the usual suspects on chowk are drawn to chowk because it offers them a diversity of opinion that reflects their own internal conflicts.

“ There is no need to discuss or debate these ideas, sitting alone and chatting with a few can create the illusion of acceptance, discussions and conflicts can be avoided.”

A debate is not an independent entity, all who participate play a part in deciding the nature of it. There is constructive debate and there is arguing for the sake of arguing or self projection. Some of the posts on the proposed joint indopak textbook can be taken as examples of constructive debate, your diatribe on how chowk Pakistanis hate Asma Jehangir is an example of the latter. Stop passing the buck of responsibility, be aware of the interconnectedness of all things. this was an article about the nature of prejudice, anyone sincerely interested in the resolution of this issue (not just in pakistan but everywhere) will start by applying the notion of open mind-open heart to themselves.

“It is this selection process that makes the internet lonely. It is like wearing electronic blinkers, to follow one own prejudices, appetites and parochial views, with out the mess of conversation and debate.”

If they chafe, take them off. The internet is lonely for you because you isolate your self behind a veneer of cynicism and negativity and seek to make all things familiar by infusing those into all conversations you enter into. What will it take to draw you out of it?

”Types of YLH and temporals have at last located this heaven, they do not want their views challenged, the few on the chowk have defined their universe, devoid of any information that is in conflict with theirs.

Neither do you jay. You have been coaxed, cajoled, pleaded with, threatened and abused, other Indians have been true enough to themselves as human beings to be able to say ‘peace, at least on the net’, yet something always stops you. When animosity de-escalates you jump out of the woodwork like a deranged road runner, do a hate filled ‘beep beep’ and whiz off into the sunset. Why this need to draw negative attention to yourself for no other reason than to negate a possible truce..even if it is only a cyber truce? What is your motive?

“No Asma Jahangirs, no jay to quote her, what a bliss. This insightful understanding of internet i read in a news paper in Sydney, Australia.”

For once, ylh asked a valid question (sorry ylh J). In your daily sweep of Pakistani papers in search of gobar to dump on our lice ridden, square pakistani heads, you cannot have failed to notice the respect and esteem in which Asma Jahangir is held by some people in our society. Just yesterday the dawn published her condemnation of the campaign against NGO’s. quote her by all means Jay, but put your feet on the tarmac instead of swimming in the naalah alongside. `no jay` would not be bliss, it would be boredom, but what about the evolution of jay? is he self-condemned to remain stagnant in his own beliefs and attitudes?

”Name calling is uniquely Pakistani, a society where the entire relational minefield of matrimony can be thrown asunder by uttering the same word three times, one can expect a lot of name calling.”

Again, what are your motives? The consistency with which you pursue an agenda of senseless provocation throws up a world of unpleasant possibilities. When I read your posts I get a sense of a person tottering on the brink of some revelation fighting desperately to make sure his horizons don’t change. “fear in a handful of dust”

“ The latest to fall victim to this is `sadna` who has quitt the chowk due to RAW accusations.”

Do you honestly believe you played no part in creating this environment of distrust and negativity? There have been casualties from both sides, sadna and shandana. If you sincerely regret their absence, play a role in shaping a debate that will draw them back.

“At last Asma had to lead a peace delegation to india. Peace delegation headed by woman, comprising only of women, by some one hated by the jihadists and the military. That sums up the priority of peace by the pak collective and there are head in the sand pakistanis talking about peace.”

The ‘jihadists’ have never won a significant victory in Pakistani elections. Pakistani and Indian women have had to take the initiative because most of our menfolk are busy piling deadwood on the fires of their resentment (this includes you). If a certain segment of the pak collective wasn’t sincerely interested in peace why would they make repeated attempts to engage people like you in dialogue.

”The article I posted is a good one, I should repeat it when ever a ylh utters the `` have you been to pakistan` line.”

Ylh is..what..19? 20?…I’m sure his enthusiasm and idealism can be seen in many young Indians as well as it is a part and parcel of nearly every man and womans life. But asking you to appreciate that would be akin to asking you to look at people as human beings first and Indian or Pakistani second. Can you do that jay? I think you can. I think this because your first response to this article was “I am humbled by your knowledge of Hinduism.” If you can be humbled, you can be moved, so..for the first and last time..i ask you, as a fellow human being and not as a representative of any country, religion or political agenda…to free yourself from the shackles of your own prejudice and share the other side of your personality with us. Chowk is not a Pakistani site, and chowk is not an Indian site. Perhaps I presume too much in saying this is your cyber home too, but the frequency of your posts suggest it is. All I ask is that you treat it the same way you treat your home in ‘the real world’..by taking garbage and refuse outside instead of dumping it on the sofa.

Ok. I’m done with my speech now.

Urstruly…

Thank you for your concern about my diet of excrement, but it is one of the staple foods in the average asian womans diet. ‘eat shite and die’ is a mission statement for some. Also, this is not just any old shite, this is your shite, so I’m pretty sure it’ll come out smelling of roses.

Temporal,

Thank you for your kind welcome. Think of me as one of those annoying orange blobby things you sometimes see out of the corner of your eye. Two foot soldiers have dropped out, It’s only fitting that two of the faceless multitude move forward to cover the gaps till they return.

In response to dost-mitter (Reply # 253)
Dear Dost-Mitter:

I was careful in my comment about the so-called Muslim cusine. In response to a statement of Shankar, I said: ``I agree with your view that the South Asian Muslim cusine is one of the best in terms [of] taste.`` As you could see, I actually mellowed down Shankar`s personal preference (when I compared it with mine). By implication, I was saying that only ``South Asian`` Muslim don`t create tasty cusines. You are right the Muslims in South Asia (not all) excel when it comes to meat dishes. Likewise, not all non-Muslims make very delicious vegetarian dishes.

My mother and my wife both are excellent cooks and they excel in both meat and other non-meat dishes. I enjoyed one of the best (extremely delicious) vegetarian food on the engagement and wedding ceremonies (two different occasions) of a Hindu (Patel) nephew of mine in Chicago.

I hope this clarification would help.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

re umairr #200

Actually, I am very frequent visitor to Pakistan given the fact that half of my closest relatives live in Karachi. I have often spent months at a stretch there (and elsewhere in Pakistan). One of my aunts is married to a former federal defence secretary.Not only do I know Pakistan and Pakistanis as well as anyone here on the board, I am a great admirer of her. No other city in the world is more dear to me than Karachi and you bet I have lived through the `death` of that city. So,please refrain from patronizing my background when the issue is the treatment of minorities in Pakistan. You, like many others, use the old nonsensical defense of `well, others do it too.` The fact remains that Pakistan is perhaps the only civilised country (the Middle Eastern nations of course are a different beast altogether) in the world which requires individuals to state their faith on national identity documents, contradicting directly the Quaid-e-Azam`s clear principles. The fact remains that Pakistan remains the only self-proclaimed democracy that practices apartheid in its electoral schemes. The essential diference between Pakistan and, say, India or Bangladesh, is that the Islamabad puts an OFFICIAL seal of approval on discrimination while others do not. None of that absolves any country of discriminating against minorities; almost all do. But the difference is one of moral, if not always practical, significance.

re satyavadi #208

Hey, one has to give the devil his due(just kidding). Seriously, I am a Jinnahite but like the Quaid himself I too wonder if the Cabinet Mission plan may have worked.

India has a lot of problems and human rights abuses on its hands. But she has tried to live up to its her secular ideals. Only a fool will deny that.

Jay #

The problem is not that this board has people with different thoughts.

The problem is that this is a homo sapiens board.

Kalki.

Although K for ``Kafir`` will always be in English language unless you want to pronounce it with sophisticated ``C``.

But in India I have heard K is for ``KamZaat`` which is not an English word.