Hidden Hindus

fairdinkum #305:

Sa`een/mate you ask “We call those who are prejudice towards another race or culture, racists. What is the term that applies to those who have prejudice towards other religions, faiths and how they`re celebrated?”

Mind if answer your simple question? ----- drum roll, please JAY THACKERAY:)

Seriously, you can take your pick of stickler, zealot, dogmatist, fanatic and bigot. I would select, drum roll please .......:)

rgds,

t

PS: Sadhana, apologise for jumping in. Couldn`t resist this full toss:)

oops! Shandana

Here is a simple question for Shandhana:

We call those who are predjudice towards another race or culture, racists. What is the term that applies to those who have predjudice towards other religions, faiths and how they`re celebrated?

re sadna

Yeah, I head it on the BBC radio on the way home from work… If the only reason this boy was brought into this world was to provide stem cells for his sister, then we are certainly in unknown waters…this is unprecedented in history of mankind.

On focus on faith, BBC explored the psychological effects on babies born from sperms donated by unknown donors. They interviewed some kids who were born from such donated sperms. Most of these kids expressed a desire to meet their biological father and one tired all possible avenues…but was unsuccessful…He sounded sad and dejected about the fact that he will never know who his real biological father is/was. I personally feel that it rather traumatic & unfair for children to be born in this way.

Another thing that disturbs me greatly in the west is the phenomenon of single mothers.

The SNAG (Sensitive New Age Guy) thing is also under review, men want to be themselves again. They want their sons to be strong, and manly. Importance of initiating ceremonies for male child in the ancient cultures was also explored. In the west role of modern day fathers was found to be pathetically unsatisfactory. A portion of blame goes to feminist movement. In Europe, men are joining courses, which are designed to awaken the old hunter instincts in men. Natural male instincts or feelings are encouraged in these courses and most men feel a whole lot better after doing such courses.
Of course, South Asian men don’t need to do such courses…they are already doing the right thing by keeping their women where they belong i.e. kitchen. :) just kidding!! :)
Its good to see you Sadhna…

RE: Fairdinkum, PM

May I suggest a good read on the topic that you are discussing. It is Friedrich Nietzsche`s ``Thus Spoke Zarathustra``. Look for a good translation. In this work of his, Nietzsche, discusses the notion of ``Ubermensch`` translated as ``Superman`` or ``the Overman``. He is not talking about the muscular, faster than bullet, man of steal instead he is talking about the perfect man i.e ``Superman``. I saw some similarities between his work and your posts, so I thought it should be discussed with you, in case you have already read about this work.

Nietzsche explains that how a perfect man is motivated by his `will to achieve power`, power in the sense of excellence``, whereas we the ordinary men are motivated by fear, habit, superstition, resentment and dogma that develops a ``slave mentality`` in ourselves. He suggests that from our childhood we are trained by family, school and society to submit to the rules and laws, how to act normal, and we are taught to believe in superstitions i.e. religion. According to him a world without customs is frightening therefore we chose the less frightening alternative i.e. `mental slavery`.

A good read; it may answer some of your questions or you may have more questions. In that case I suggest Allama Iqbal`s thesis, ``the Development of Metaphysics in Islam``. It is hard to find these days but the alternative is ``mental slavery``. You chose.

fairdinkum, PM
Bahut acche.

This news report is rather disturbing. When the violence and extremism ends, is this what will take its place?
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_954000/954408.stm

Sadhana

PM #295


Thanks for your interesting post. I am glad somebody understands what I was talking about:)

PM, the more I read about religion, the more it seems that in religion (organized forms of it), angels and demons lie so close together that it becomes impossible to tell them apart. …. To understand the recent upsurge in extreme religious movements, including the Islamic revivalist movements, we, apart from the profound human desire for non-rational, also need to look at several other factors. There is currently an upsurge in extreme religious movements around the globe.

History tells us that religious revivalism is not a new phenomenon… However, the study of this subject is complex and multi dimensional… The difficulty is that no two extremist religious movements are the same.

Postmodern era is not all doom and gloom though… an overwhelming majority of people who can be described as religious in one way or another are pragmatic, balanced, well adjusted, and productive members of societies they live in…. And despite the upsurge in religious extremism, social pragmatism rules…may be not in Pakistan (probably because of the medieval structure of society more than anything else), but in slightly more advanced societies such as Malaysia it does.

I do not concur with the view that religion is necessarily evil or even useless. In my view, such an approach not only ignores the fact that spirituality/religion is a profound human desire, it alienates a majority of people in societies such as Pakistan. If we are talking about doing something to reduce the effects of Talibanism in Pakistan, and fight for the rights of minorities, women and the weak, then alienating the majority is the last thing we want.

I will read Care For The Soul by Thomas Moore. The passage you quoted is indeed interesting and consistent with other literature on religion I have read.

the old man in the cripple chair
died in transit through the air
and slopped onto the road.

the driver of the lethal lorry
tumbled out and cried ``i`m sorry..
but it was his own fault!``

humans snuggled round the mess
in masochistic tenderness
as raindrops danced in his womb.

but something else obsessed my brain,
the canvas, twisted steel and cane,
his chair...spreadeagled in the rain..
like a fallen birdman.

roger mcgough

dear all,
thank you for reminding me why i wanted to be a writer in the first place.
shandana

Carry on playing Sax, the melodious frenzy that you invariably whip up is ammmmmmaaaaaazing! hats off to you, Master Legpuller.....

Satyavadi and other Indians ...

To read sarcasm as truth shows your command over the language... In any event I assure you that there isnt any such text in any school in Pakistan which has K for Kafir and Z for Zalim ..

I bet you all 1 million Dollars, and believe me I ll give you 1 million dollars if you find a text like that for Kids or adults... Now if some writer wrote a hate book ... I am sure I can find you 1001 books against Muslims and Pakistanis ...

Satyavadi please visit Pakistan ... or are you afraid of the truth???

sincerely

Yasser Hamdani

Satyavadi#286

Don`t spread lies on this board and give reference for verification.

Anyway even if it not in text book, atrocities of Indian forces in Kashmir are evident with the full support of Indians.

Just remember this.

``Allah ki Lathi BeAwaz Hoti Hai``.

Satyavadi,

Ah, one of Jay`s Crew..

Kalki sayeth `why are Pakistanis obsessed with K- for kafir`?

I sayeth `Certainly no one here is`.

Thou sayeth.. I`m not sure what. Is that an argument against what I said? Do Pakistanis around here go saying `K for Kafir`? Granted, i gotta investigate some textbooks when i get back.. Who brought the whole `K for Kafir` bit, anyway? I`ve completely forgotten where that article came from.

Re. Fairdinkum (#194)

Thanks for sharing that interesting perspective with us. Here’s a passage I came across just this morning that I thought you’d find interesting too. It’s from Thomas Moore’s (not THAT Thomas Moore, yaar) Care For The Soul, a book I think would be a must-read for you…

[… In this … sense, religion is an “art of memory.” A way of sustaining mindfulness about the religion that is inherent in everything we do. For some, religion is a Sunday affair, and they risk dividing life into the holy Sabbath and the secular week. For others, religion is a weeklong observance that is inspired and sustained on the Sabbath…. An appreciation of vernacular spirituality is important because without it our idealization of the holy, making it precious and too removed from life, can actually obstruct a genuine sensitivity to what is sacred. Churchgoing can become a mere aesthetic experience or, psychologically, even a defense against the power of the holy. Formal religion, so powerful and influential in the establishment of values and principles, always lies on a cusp between the divine and the demonic. Religion is never neutral. It justifies and inflames the emotions of a holy war, and it fosters profound guilt about love sex and love. The word ‘sacer’, the root of sacred, means both “holy” and “taboo,” so close is the relationship between the holy and the forbidden….]

Moore goes on to discuss the sacredness attached to food and eating and other presumably ‘mundane’ things. A lot of Zen influence.

Maybe we can’t help but careen toward religion, even aware of it’s discontents (?) because it (even—or perhaps especially! -- in it’s ‘organized’, ritualized forms) addresses a very profound, non-rational need in us humans.

British men prefer Indian food to sex.

http://news.indiainfo.com/2000/10/05/loaded.html

:-)

-arun gupta

Is it not ironic that the two regions which gave most of the religions to the world (Middle East: Christianity, Judaism, Muslim faith and Indian sub-continent: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism) - are also the homes of most intolerant people?

The regions, which took these religions in small doses and mixed it with indigenous humanistic culture, are thriving. Western countries adapted Christianity to its tastes and Far Eastern countries took what they liked about Buddhism.

The inventors of the religions are after each other`s pocket when they are at their best behavior. When they are cranky, blowing each other up is not out of question.

JAY FIXATION,

My posts are the most non-provocative, it is not addressed at any one to elicit a response, it is one of those that can be esily skipped, my name is prominantly there, there is a little arrow at the bottom, use it, ignore it. Most of the posts on the chowk I just skim through, only hamidm`s i read a few times to appreciate the craftmanship.

Most of the other posts are recycled, there is no originality, however absurd and provocative they might be. Most delve into the history, dead I am not interested, and conjuring up their vision, I am still less fascinated.

If the chowk is crowded with people of such honesty and integrity, such doves and peace mongers, then one persons action cannot poison the atmosphere. If ones charector is of so fragile as to be led astry by a few posts then there is no charector that is worth having. A shielded life, never exposed to temptation is hollow. Grow up, use the arrow at the bottom of the screen, listen to the fears, the inner promptings from the true self.

Or just wonder how I never responded in kind to the name calling. It is only the vane who will attempt to be the alleged `peace` keeper on the chowk. Look at the reality before you go off on a tangent, I am at best on two threads, may be three, watch out for the name in bold letters, `jay` and skip it.

Or better still read any book by

J. Krishnamoorthy, what he talks about religion, books and other inputs.