Hidden Hindus

Re: Urstruly # 131

The bigots on Chowk know who they are and it was not intended as a blanket statement. I am sorry if you read that way!

As to the bigots having a voice, they are entitled to it. They have a right to say what they want; and I have a right to disagree with them!

Ciao!

SM #120:

Hey kiddo, the air getting to you too?

Where is the take-no-prisoner Shandy?

love,

t

............... so my seven year old comes back from Sunday School and solemnly declares, `` Christians are Kafirs``

....okay. I always knew that K was for Kafir, and the kafir usualy had a pony tail on top of a bald head and an upside-down swastika on his forehead... but I always thought that the Christians were Okay - ahl`e-kitab and all that ......... my best boyhood buddy is a Christian with whome I shared many a Christmas and Eid and who now happily shares his liquor license with me on my trips back home... is he a kafir too ? Perplexed, mortified and quite distraught, I turn to the ultimate source of all wisdom .... my dog-eared and heavily underlined copy of Dawood`s Koran which sits on the book-shelf between Midnight`s Children and the Buddha of Suburbia, but far away from those rascals - Russell and Ibn-Warraq ..............of course, like all good Muslims, the real thing lies in all its ornate velvet encased splendor on top of the book-shelf, to be taken down for the once a week visit by the Qari who, for seventy-five dollars an hour, teaches the kids to read in authentic Arabic ....

...... so I feverishly look for some argument - some little piece of evidence, which I can use to counter the moon-faced Islamic nuns at Sunday School who are, I fear, turning my sweet little daughter into a flaming religious bigot ...... so I look, and look and look ............

.........Lord, show me a sign...tell me it is okay to break bread with my childhod buddy, John ..... I don`t need a burning bush - just a few words that tell me it is okay to live amongst the Christians .... I know I am supposed to lay off Big Macs and study the ingredients on a tube of Colgate - but is it okay to go to John`s house in Islamabad ?.... the city established to honor you.....

lo and behold! ................ I find the passage - but it breaks my heart - for now I know John is doomed - destined for the big tandoor in the sky.....damned to hell-fire for eternity...... for there it is - clear as daylight :

``They surely disbelieve (la-gad kafar `llazina) who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers (al-Ma`idah 5:72).``

............. what do I do? my buddy is doomed -my little fanatic is right...

Devkant #130

I think you realize this.

Now my thinking is there is too much projection from Indian side.i.e Presenting issues of Pakistan according to their own frame of reference. Also it seems that Indians are very much with their state, probably because they think that state has delivered to them or feel part of it.

Also there is lot of misinformation (Thanks to the Urdu not in vogue in India)

Like witness of non-Muslim half than Muslim. `J`` is for Jalim and `Z` is for Zihad:).

Also on Pakistan side our frame of reference is different. Like state right, particularly in Kashmir appeal to us which is more near to our experience and struggle, than minority rights, which we don`t come across. Also Country is not as dear to us because of our experience than people`s right which is trampled everyday.

I think I have presented the difference in outlook and probable reasons for that.

But I think in India the phenomenon of labelling is very common even by educated people, which is reflected on this board.

We cannot expect other people to think the same way as we. But expect some civility in discussion.

Dear Shandana Minhas,

Please don`t withdraw your article. Why do some people call you ``slink``?

Interim, Dear Lubna Devi ji, I am arranging 2-Para Maratha Lights to drop khakee chaddees of all sizes, A front for gents and g-string type for ladies ji over Karachi Harbour to start with. Each chaddee will have wrapped in it a quarter nip of Old Monk rum with instructions on the label on how to consume same with Ganga Jal, which I shall then take the sole distributorship for all of Pakistan for. Refills will only be available if people display their chaddees, and knowing that it may be a problem for genteel pakistani ladies to flash khaki g-string in public, we will make special counters for them behind the zenana.

(Ghalib ne kaha tha: Marne pe meree maut ke baad, kabar meree banana, under or next to the zanana``)

Once I have launched khaki chaddees succesfully in all of Pakistan, then we will go publi, issue shares and ESOPs and do ``scratch & sniff``, but not on used chaddees.

This will end scabies too.

I don’t think any analysis of interacts is needed to see that they were totally crap – mine included. Shandana is justified in expressing her frustration. She has delivered the message quite brilliantly. And there was nothing in the interacts worth responding to .. so how is she suppose to guide/direct the discussion? And what discussion?

SameerJB #128

Hello Sameer,

If bhels are/were nomadic people, how do they constitute such a large agricultural workforce in rural Sindh? I know that they are forcibly employed or forced to work as slave laborers, but since they lived a nomadic life, how were the landlords able to get hold of them?

Also, can you shed some light on the religion/beliefs of Ranger or oodh people? I have seen large number of oodh people in Karachi living a nomadic life style. I suppose they are found elsewhere in Pakistan too – not sure though.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated on that. I prayed hard for Pak. hockey team, but I think my genes are too diluted :)

Sadhna,

I don’t see anything controversial or offensive in your post #21.

Pullu,

Thanks for your kind comments… re disgusting people etc. I concur. But sometimes, it is not so easy my friend.

A colleague who had two masters degrees and a PhD from US of A once told me that the proof of validity of Muslim faith is that faces of Muslims emit light, whereas faces of Kafirs are devoid of any light.

I once went for Jummah prayers to my University mosque. The priest (who was, and still is a professor at the department of electrical and electronics engineering, originally from India) was talking about the harmful effects of eating haram food…as an example, he pointed to Chinese faces describing them as pig look alike (because they eat pig meat a lot). The enlightened Jammat (people who were gathered to offer prayers) giggled.

RE: Fairdinkum# 139

I am glad to see that everybody living behind that mole hill is living happily ever after.

Shankar #127

I don`t want to be very polite with you.

If my posts are hateful, so be it.

If I am hateful. Then think that a common man is having a grenade and Jihadist atom bomb.

I don`t take insults lightly. If you (Not you in particular because I know your posts are balanced)

start hurling abuse on my soft belly. I also know your soft belly.

But compared to posts from Indian sides, where they have been frankly abusive against Islam, and Prophet PBUH. I have always attacked the human rights abuses in India and sarcastically what India is. I have not attacked your personal beliefs on religion, nor did I participated on famous Heeng board. etc.

You cannot go on attacking my people and religion and think of amity. And if there is no amity we are at fault.

The Pakistani English press, during its periods of freedom, has tried to raise consciousness about the problems of religious minorities in Pakistan.

For example, I know of the minority community leaders` strong pleas for a joint electorate from articles in the Dawn from the early 90s.

Two observations -- first, that any Indian interest in Pakistani Hindus would be the kiss of death for that small community.

Second, as a participant and observer on the USENET group soc.culture.pakistan a decade ago, I noticed that whenever two male Pakistani students got into a fight and traded insults, the two deadliest insults were to call your opponent a Hindu and a woman. Perhaps I draw the wrong conclusion, but I don`t think things are going to improve in a hurry for the ``Hidden Hindus``.

-arun gupta

HamidM#

I don`t see any relationship between the wrong belief`s of your friend with you visiting him.

Do you discuss religion on a drink with him when you visit him.

Devkant,

Did you actually bother looking at who started the mess on the other forum....

Please if you cant contribute constructively, refrain from personal slander.

Thankyou

Yours sincerely

Yasser Hamdani

Hamidm

Please for the record also clarify that Islamic Sunday schools exist in the United States and not in Pakistan.

Americans of Pakistani/Muslim/Arab origin to me are as much of a scum as certain other groups I wouldnt mention here.

They give us a bad name. Sorry for stereotyping.

Yasser Hamdani

fairdinkum(#138): You can check a large number of websites by using the search engine at yahoo.com and search for ``BHEEL``. I wrongly used spellings as ``bhel or bhil`` for a class of low caste hindus originally from southern Rajisthan, northern Gujrat and eastern Sindh. The term Bheel defines a class of low caste Hindus, agriculture laborers by profession. They are not normal nomads who migrate with changing weather. The Bheels live in their exclusive villages and move around in search of jobs in farming sector and get trapped as bonded laborers (slaves find the master and generally not otherway around). Because of centuries of seperate and on the move lifestyle, they have developed distinct culture, different from Sindhi, Gujrat or Rajisthani cultures. Please read some of the stories from the yahoo search websites, about atrocities commited against them. I really liked the one in TribuneIndia, Chandigarh story about someone`s memoir of a drought in southern Rajisthan.

I do not know about Rang(h)ers or Oodhs at this time. I will look for their background somewhere and inform you some other time. I think, both of these groups are true nomads; mostly construction laborers. They maybe originally from semi-arid southern Punjab (north of Multan). Isn`t singer Reshman one of Oodh?

P.S. I was doubtful about Pakistan`s chances of any medal this time and they came out 4th. Your genes, diluted or not, would not have much difference. The holiest of the holy Saudis won one silver medal. It may be funny for you to know that most Muslim medal winners in Sydney Olympics came from.................none other than formally athiest Russia. Many of the Russian Boxers and Weight lifters were of Muslim background. I guess Islam prepares one well for lifting heavy load of ``larger than average family size`` and you boxed your way through life against athiests, polytheists, pagans, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Ahmadis................

Hindus who choose to live in Pakistan have it coming. Pakistan was created as a non-secular country for Islam and Muslims (``Islamic Republic of Pakistan``)and not for the Hindus and Christians and other assorted Kafirs to come mingle in.

They stuck their hands in the lion`s cage and shouldn`t be complaining now.

veeresh #137:

think you`re forgetting this is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan we`re talking about (at least for the time being if we go by your khabar) so... either send us the proper stuff or get ready to get your head ganjafied... taliban ishtyle...

on the other hand, if you`re really that short on khaki kapra, (and by the sounds of it you seem to be), maybe we can help and donate some your way? (we`re a generous qaum) we can`t bear to watch half naked bodies wearing chaddees land on our beaches...

.....Jerry Garcia lives - Blues for Allah, Inshallah

.... why are we worried about Hindus, Christians, Ahmedis and other UnGodly people who have brung the wrath of Allah upon themselves ? Didn`t He reveal the truth to us, and warned us against the transgressors and heretics .............. now that my little fanatic has opened my eyes, I see the Clintonesque evil inherent in the tree-hugging followers of the false prophetess Madalyn O`Haire ......

..... in case some of the faltering Muslims on the chowk have any doubts about how to treat the Kafir :

47.4: ``When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the

remaining captives.``

9.29,30: ``Declare war upon those to whom the Scriptures were revealed but believe neither in God nor the Last Day, and who do not forbid

that which God and His Apostles have forbidden, and who refuse toacknowledge the true religion until they pay the poll-tax without reservation and are totally subjugated. The Jews claim that Ezra is a son of God, and the Christians say, `the Messiah is a son of God.`Those are their claims which do indeed resemble the sayings of the Infidels of Old. May God do battle with them! How they are deluded!``

................ so let us cut out this crap about minority and Hindu rights - praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. We, the pious - with billowing shalwars and clean upper lips, will not permit the sissification of the Pakistani youth. We have seen the enemy - Jews and Christians and Hindu and, of course, Jerry Garcia`s Deadheads :

Arabian wind, The needle`s eye is thin, The ships of state sail on mirage,

And drown in sand, Out in no-man`s land where Allah does command.

What good is spilling blood? It will not grow a thing;

Taste eternity the swords sing: Blues of Allah In `sh`Allah.

They lie where they fall, There`s nothing more to say,

The desert stars are bright tonight lets meet as friends,

The Flower of Islam, The Fruit of Abraham.

The thousand stories have come round to one again,

Arabian night, Our Gods pursue their fight,

What fatal flowers of darkness bloom from seeds of light.

Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In `sh`Allah,

Let`s see with our heart, These things our eyes have seen,

And know the truth must still lie somewhere in between.

Under eternity, under eternity, under eternity blue,

Bird of paradise fly in white sky, Blues for Allah In `sh`Allah