Love and Hate Online

Krashid Reply #66

Khalid Ali is the name of the poet.Hope that helps.

Regards

Urstruly #67:

Sab say pehlay ma’azrat. Hum kisi ka dil nahiN dukhana chahtay haiN. Sakht baat thee aur humnay shaaya kuch ziyada hee sakhti say likh dee. Mediocrity kaa tou sawaal hee nahiN paida hota hay.

Agar aap ghore karaiN tou qissa yeh hay key jin baatouN ka asar humari roz murrah ki zindagi par waajbi sa hota hay, hum baRRi shidd o madd say ayataiN aur hadessaiN bayan kar daitay haiN. Laikin oon baatouN ko jin ka humari rozmurrah ki zindagi pay ziyadah asar paRRta hay oos ko hum bilkul nazar andaaz kar daitay haiN. Kiyoun bhala? Allah na karay aap ka koi qareebi aziz jail maiN ho. Laikin humari jailouN maiN jo kuch ho raha hay oos say hum aankh nahiN bachaa sakhtay haiN. Kisi bhee zindah maa’shray kay liyay yeh buhat ma’ayoub baat hogi kay aisi harkatouN say oos kay paRRhay likhay hazrat bhee haath dhou baithaiN.

Aur oos mal’oun say muqabla kar kay aap nay ghaliban na’danistagi main humaiN aur dookh pohnchaya hay.

aapka,

temporal

RE: Temporal # 64

t!
Resist the temptation of mediocrity.

I hope you have heard this story before.

Once upon a time there was a man named Jay........... well you know the story from start to end....don`t you?

Musafir #65

Who is the poet.

Jinhe Hukm Qatal Mila Agar

Jinhe Ajr-e Qatal Mila Nahin

Dear Zeejah,

Thanks for sharing.Its true sometime you gain more than what you deserve and sometime you loose all what you got. Isn`t this a strange thing? I don`t want to believe in hate on the net but its possible since I saw it myself so close that I was not aware of it myself. My own half was in love and I was not aware of being hated at the same time. My own kainaat was slipping away and I didn`t know. My suraj was setting but no hope for chand nor sitara`s. Anyway, I hope it bring happiness and joy to everyone. Again, very kind of you to make them aware of all the possiblities.All the best in every walk of life and hope to see you around with more articles.Take care

Regards

tumhe.n kyaa Khabar ke mai.n kaun huu.N

mere qaatilo.n se hii se puuchh lo

ji.nhe.n hukm-e-qatl milaa magar

ji.nhe.n ajr-e-qatl milaa nahii.n

Comments welcome from anyone.

Specially from the Qur`an thumping, hadith quoting, Ayatollah-Maulana following Jannati Brigade of the Me-Muslim-you-duck crowd.

Two questions:

1: This time what quotations/narrations would you share with us?

and

2: What can YOU really do about this?

``The house of vices`` at

http://www.dawn.com/2000/10/04/fea.htm#1

anxiously waiting,

---t

Awakening Hopeful #60:

[....used this time to me in your post.....]
---(slap on the wrist) ....apologise if I was rude .... don’t remember though.

All right, will stick to simple(r) words ---- really ----- promise not to throw Ghalib’s difficult couplets or the near Persian lines from Noon Meem Rashid.

[...spent most of my childhood on the west coast ....]
---you don’t know what you missed --- scout has vividly described it in her response recently the winter magic of the Eastern sea board.

[... nomad of sorts...] and the Whitman quotes remind me of: “My life is a special Ali Baba`s cave full of old friends, books, memories, incidents and experiences. When I feel like hitting the `pause` button on life, I say the magic words ``khul jaa sim sim`` and am instantly transformed to another world. Was born a few thousand years back. Have floated like a cloud since....collecting flavours and smells and colours mostly from Europe and mid or western Asia. Over the last few years am regurgitating all those thoughts, experiences and feelings into a cohesive outlook; the Devi of success is at best elusive. Someday, before I float away again, this will crystallize.”

more such thoughts at:

http://www.chowk.com/people/Tools/cc_printhome.cgi?temporal

If you have registered for an email address with hotmail, or yahoo drop in a line through the address on this page. Anonymity can be fun ;)

[...pool of water ....]
---Am sure Lake Ontario has been described many ways but never as a pool of water. LOL.

[makes you sound like a very secure person with this type of ``enclosure`` habit of yours of circumventing your lake. (Hint to my profession...) ]
---Now this is an interesting observation. Are you an amateur or do you also charge by the minute? Here is a thought. If I am ‘secure’ enough I can wait till the answer appears on its own volition. Or it mayn’t appear at all. It shouldn’t matter in the least.

But to be truthful am just a normal secure person whose flood-gates of tolerance sometimes burst open by intransigence, intolerance, stupidness, or pure bigotry and hatred AND (of course) abuse of the language.


[Sometimes we miss what we NEED to ingratiate inner satisfaction for ourselves written from someone else`s hand that heals us.]
---if I understand it correctly this is profound but am not sure. Please elaborate.


[I hope that each writer will contribute to the collective whole of the readers here on Chowk, and make us all better people and citizens in our respective societies.]
---This I reciprocate fully. And thanks.

regards,

temporal

gfm #20 Good job in providing Mr. Mughal`s phone number to Mr. Shakir so he can listen to a different point of view than that of PTCL bureaucrats. :-)

I remember many years ago I took a job interview with the state government of Michigan at our university placement office. The interviewer from the state government posed the following question: ``Suppose you are working for the Michigan state government and VW applies for building an auto plant in Michigan. How would you handle it?`` Having just spent an year training with the Pakistan civil service, my (very poor) response was: I would reject it, since if there were any good investment opportunities they should be given to Michigan firms like GM or Ford. The interviewer gently informed me that the correct answer would be to give them a big welcome since the more investors there are, the more competition there is, the better off the people of Michigan would be.

I have reflected on that interview a number of times in the intervening years, and realize the wisdom behind the interviewer`s viewpoint. Here are some illustrations:

(a) Even an advanced country like Germany was lagging behind in the telecom (and in IT generally) due to a slow-moving Deutsche Telecomm. Then Deutsche Telecomm was privatized. And now things are a lot different and DT is busy expanding as I understand it (having recently completed the very public purchase of a key US tech firm, Voicestream). (b) Another example: the reason Finland is the world leader in wireless telephones is that in the 1930`s they privatized their radio stations and Finland had 40 private stations and has remained very dynamic in this field.

(c) Closer home, in a different sector, the commercial banking sector of Pakistan was a progressive and thriving sector until Bhutto killed the goose that laid the golden eggs by nationalizing it. Trying to undo that, as with the Muslim Commercial Bank is a long and painful process (but well worth it, since MCB I understand is doing much better after privatization).

Shakir sahib`s viewpoint (never mind the lack of figures and all that you and I have already pointed out to him) reminds me of the same inward looking mentality that infect Pakistan (and indeed most third world country).

I agree that one needs to make sure that we need a good regulatory framework along with privatization, but I dont think the Pakistani civil service can do it, given its current mindset and incentives structure. They are trying to fix that by improving government pay scales, so let us see.

shakir #19 You write ``As for doing my homework, I think I did more than enough. ``

I took the trouble of explaining my statement concerning your homework. You ignore my explanations, and simply reject what I was trying to get through to you. Such arbitrary pronouncements can be expected from a mullah or a military despot, but falls short of the level of self-confidence and professionalism one would expect from a journalist. One can hardly expect an intelligent discussion based on this attitude.

In response to Mr Shakir reply no 19:

You wrote:

``this deal was quite lucrative so why was it that only one company bid for a huge and lucrative infrastructure JV??``

Good point. Please answer your own question becuase your article fails to do so. It is these holes in your argument -ie these answered questions that I have a problem with. It is your illogical deductive thinking that leads you to make assumptions that need further evidence and research. Additionally there are many other questions I have that I would like you to explore

1)Did only one company bid? Who else wanted to?

2) what were the the pre-reqs and qualifications for the bid?

3) who are other companies in the Pakistani network infrastructure market that you feel could potentially do such a joint venture?

My own view point is that PTCL and most of Pakistan has a problem with landing investment - foreign or local . Huge firms espcially big infrastructure firms are not neccessarily investing in Pakistan with just firms like Nortel (and a few others) selling network components to Pakistan. I don`t see them investing in Pakistan anytime soon and I really don`t know if Pakistanis ISPs and infrastructure telcos have the monetary capital to invest in such a JV. Maybe ACL were the only people to invest in such a project because Pakistan is such a crazy place for investment (the only fools PTCL could get 4.8Million from) or maybe it was an under handed deal like your article has implied. But the fact of the matter is you need more proof and better information to say that it was a dirty deal. For all intense purposes the deal could be totally viable -not stupid neither corrupt.

Secondly leading from this point I never categorically denied your argument but merely stated that you cannot make your accusations with out obtaining more proof. To help you out and being in London I have located Akthar technologies phone number. Please give this CEO Mr. Mughal a call and say that Herald would like to interview him. (Hopefully Herald would pay for the costs). I think a lot of people would be interested to hear thic chap`s point of view and answer the questions that you yourself have not been able to get to the bottom of. Maybe then we can really see things in perspective and maybe then you yourself can finish your investigative article and gain credibility.

44 01279 821 200

Thirdly you wrote:

``Why should PTCL share revenues when it doesn`t need to. A JV is undertaken for two reasons: 1) a lack of expertise, and 2) a lack of capital.``

A JV could be taken for a number of reasons but primarily to make money. Hence to reduce the risk of a new investment (ie tele-housing) a joint partner might not neccessarily have the required expertise (though I presume hardware components and networking will be required -something ACL can provide) but a Joint partner can provide capital only .

Fourthly the other question I had relates to what you wrote in the article:

``The amount is a paltry US$ 4.48 million invested over a period of three years and not the US$ 30 million as stated by press release on PTCL’s website. Under the terms of this Agreement PTCL will have a 51% stake in this venture, while ACL will hold a 49% stake``

Back to tahmed`s point - How the hell can ACL expect 51% in the venture if if has only put in 4.48m out of a 30M investment even over a 3 year period? Either my friend you have your numbers wrong or the PTCL can`t even add up numbers. Plus money that is made (ie profit) should be shared according to % investment. This is basic business. Also you mentioned that ACL would invest over a period of time and would be use their profit stream generated from the JV back into the JV. Nothing wrong with that. Would have to look at the business model but it sounds a pretty risky venture from the ACL point of view and a good deal from PTCL`s view point of reducing their own risk.

Fifthly you wrote:

``Government will be sending negative signals to two very important types of investors``

WHy? If anything a joint venture if implemented well could spur growth in the telco industry and get local ASPs and ISPs to generate more revenue from telehousing by providing more services.

Sixthly to your point of ACL expertise and implementation. You yourself have mentioned that it is a JV and that PTCL can do most of the services. The question you have to ask yourself is why ACL? In my opinion it could be the investment and even the expertise in hardware and software that is required to run a tele-house. PTCL has the knowledge of its infrastructure and network (why does it need someone else who does?) it might just need a PC company that can provide servers, PCs, hardware and basic software to service these tele-houses. ACL might just prove the bill. Please do more homework.

And to SameerJB and the very poetic Khursid - remember very time you might not understand something - jumping to conspiracy theories that the there is back hand dealing etc. is a very dangerous way to live in civil society. Yes I agree that in pakistan there is an immenese amount of corruption and government officials are always wanting kick backs, but to always, always jump to conclusions without seeing the whole picture condemns good innocent people. I have seen Mr. Mughal (ACL) speak at a venue and he seems to be a hard working low key conservative chap who has always aspired to return the success he has achieved abroad back to his country. It is important that we un-cover more facts and data before you condemn companies and people.

One day we might not trust any Pakistani at all and we end up living in a McCarthy era where even good people are bad.

phoenix rising!

You are most welcome. Sometimes I am single.

t #55:

``By a twist of Freudian logic when I came across the catch phrase ‘Return, Recycle, Reuse’ I took to recycling instantly. I cycle around a lot. There is a bike trail along the lake --- Martin Goodman Trail that hugs the lake for miles in either direction.``

heheh...

Good poem by the way and looks like you`re gonna have to go for the sharp shiny object. They`ve only posted one new one despite the fact that the couple at the bottom have been quite dead for some time now.

Because the internet rose from the good ol` days of being solely the domain of ``geeks`` that a stigma has arisen to any social interaction via the Net.

In the 7 years that I`ve been surfing, my opinions on the Net have evolved from it being a ``gee whiz`` techie toy to a communication and information tool that I use just like I`d use the telephone/newspapers/books or anything else. Once the novelty wore off, the Net took it`s place beside any other ``real-life`` activities.

There are inherent risks when establishing any new relationship. With online, one doesn`t even know whether the person on the other is really male or female. but beyond that the unknown factor is very real when one meets through the more traditional real life methods as well.

To cite an example for meeting potential spouses very common in the west... boy meets girl in a bar. Does girl know much about him aside from the fact that he`s cute and charming? He could be an axe murderer for all she knows. She`ll have to turn on her instincts and common sense from that point onward when getting to know him.

Now lets cite an example of a method for meeting potential spouses very common in the ``East``. Girl receives Rishta from the family whom they don`t know very well. Parents have to do research on their own on the guy and his family.

I don`t know about others but i`ve heard of lots of cases of mother forcing a rishta on her son to a girl against his will when he was involved with someone else. After the marriage the girl finds out about the other woman but now there isn`t anything she can do about it.

So bottom line is no method of meeting people is foolproof. Caution, Common Sense and Instincts should be the order of the day when meeting anyone through any method.

Cheers,

Fozia

scout #49:

[I`ve collected two garbage bags of soda cans for you.]

ON RECYCLING

By a twist of Freudian logic when I came across the catch phrase ‘Return, Recycle, Reuse’ I took to recycling instantly. I cycle around a lot. There is a bike trail along the lake --- Martin Goodman Trail that hugs the lake for miles in either direction. I digress.

Leave the soda cans by the side entrance, not the pavement. I will collect them and turn them in for the deposit. Return, Recycle, Reuse. Who knows, depending on what happens here I may exchange the proceeds for a full can or two of the brew or for a sharp shiny object. (Wanna share, O Ayesha of the disorder infamy?)

What happens here merely alludes to the appearance of my various artworks. (Now that is what else but recycling of WORDS!) There’s one on eloquence written and submitted when Nawaz was still in power and another a tribute to Intezar Hussain the Urdu symbolic short story maestro. He is in town for an Urdu Anjuman Meet on Oct 8. I wish the organizers had the fore-thought to invite Dr. Muhammed Omar Memon of Wisc.U who had done so much to introduce him to the English world. Reminds me: must do piece on him to introduce him and his works to the vast Urdu diaspora not in academia. And another on beauty contest --purdah style. And another on ....

Patience is a virtue. I am tiring of virtue. It is a lonely existence. And running thin on patience. Hence the wistful thoughts about sharp gleaming whirling objects. Recycling souls. Words. ---- (Like this: might re-do as a short poem.)


[Patience, virtue’s soul
or harlot?
stretched and spread thin
-------(remember, we’re six billion?)-----
thinning like ozone
not enough to go around
gaps and holes
that let in
no light, dream or smile
but dark visions
of an end
that waits --- patiently.]

(.....and they say words are mightier than most sharp objects...)

love.

temporal

PS: Reality check: still early. Will wake up soon. Sorry if this spoils lunch.

RSaxena, scout, temporal

Poochtey Hain woh ke krashid kon Hain

Koi batlao ke hum batlaen kia.

I think I am krashid. After that anybody can guess.

Phoenix rising#

Have you ever tried single ads.

35 years old single female looking for a calm and dashing male. fun loving etc.

45 uears old bisexual looking for a couple for fun.

Just curious.