Love and Hate Online

shakir #19 You write ``As for doing my homework, I think I did more than enough. ``

I took the trouble of explaining my statement concerning your homework. You ignore my explanations, and simply reject what I was trying to get through to you. Such arbitrary pronouncements can be expected from a mullah or a military despot, but falls short of the level of self-confidence and professionalism one would expect from a journalist. One can hardly expect an intelligent discussion based on this attitude.

In response to Mr Shakir reply no 19:

You wrote:

``this deal was quite lucrative so why was it that only one company bid for a huge and lucrative infrastructure JV??``

Good point. Please answer your own question becuase your article fails to do so. It is these holes in your argument -ie these answered questions that I have a problem with. It is your illogical deductive thinking that leads you to make assumptions that need further evidence and research. Additionally there are many other questions I have that I would like you to explore

1)Did only one company bid? Who else wanted to?

2) what were the the pre-reqs and qualifications for the bid?

3) who are other companies in the Pakistani network infrastructure market that you feel could potentially do such a joint venture?

My own view point is that PTCL and most of Pakistan has a problem with landing investment - foreign or local . Huge firms espcially big infrastructure firms are not neccessarily investing in Pakistan with just firms like Nortel (and a few others) selling network components to Pakistan. I don`t see them investing in Pakistan anytime soon and I really don`t know if Pakistanis ISPs and infrastructure telcos have the monetary capital to invest in such a JV. Maybe ACL were the only people to invest in such a project because Pakistan is such a crazy place for investment (the only fools PTCL could get 4.8Million from) or maybe it was an under handed deal like your article has implied. But the fact of the matter is you need more proof and better information to say that it was a dirty deal. For all intense purposes the deal could be totally viable -not stupid neither corrupt.

Secondly leading from this point I never categorically denied your argument but merely stated that you cannot make your accusations with out obtaining more proof. To help you out and being in London I have located Akthar technologies phone number. Please give this CEO Mr. Mughal a call and say that Herald would like to interview him. (Hopefully Herald would pay for the costs). I think a lot of people would be interested to hear thic chap`s point of view and answer the questions that you yourself have not been able to get to the bottom of. Maybe then we can really see things in perspective and maybe then you yourself can finish your investigative article and gain credibility.

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Thirdly you wrote:

``Why should PTCL share revenues when it doesn`t need to. A JV is undertaken for two reasons: 1) a lack of expertise, and 2) a lack of capital.``

A JV could be taken for a number of reasons but primarily to make money. Hence to reduce the risk of a new investment (ie tele-housing) a joint partner might not neccessarily have the required expertise (though I presume hardware components and networking will be required -something ACL can provide) but a Joint partner can provide capital only .

Fourthly the other question I had relates to what you wrote in the article:

``The amount is a paltry US$ 4.48 million invested over a period of three years and not the US$ 30 million as stated by press release on PTCL’s website. Under the terms of this Agreement PTCL will have a 51% stake in this venture, while ACL will hold a 49% stake``

Back to tahmed`s point - How the hell can ACL expect 51% in the venture if if has only put in 4.48m out of a 30M investment even over a 3 year period? Either my friend you have your numbers wrong or the PTCL can`t even add up numbers. Plus money that is made (ie profit) should be shared according to % investment. This is basic business. Also you mentioned that ACL would invest over a period of time and would be use their profit stream generated from the JV back into the JV. Nothing wrong with that. Would have to look at the business model but it sounds a pretty risky venture from the ACL point of view and a good deal from PTCL`s view point of reducing their own risk.

Fifthly you wrote:

``Government will be sending negative signals to two very important types of investors``

WHy? If anything a joint venture if implemented well could spur growth in the telco industry and get local ASPs and ISPs to generate more revenue from telehousing by providing more services.

Sixthly to your point of ACL expertise and implementation. You yourself have mentioned that it is a JV and that PTCL can do most of the services. The question you have to ask yourself is why ACL? In my opinion it could be the investment and even the expertise in hardware and software that is required to run a tele-house. PTCL has the knowledge of its infrastructure and network (why does it need someone else who does?) it might just need a PC company that can provide servers, PCs, hardware and basic software to service these tele-houses. ACL might just prove the bill. Please do more homework.

And to SameerJB and the very poetic Khursid - remember very time you might not understand something - jumping to conspiracy theories that the there is back hand dealing etc. is a very dangerous way to live in civil society. Yes I agree that in pakistan there is an immenese amount of corruption and government officials are always wanting kick backs, but to always, always jump to conclusions without seeing the whole picture condemns good innocent people. I have seen Mr. Mughal (ACL) speak at a venue and he seems to be a hard working low key conservative chap who has always aspired to return the success he has achieved abroad back to his country. It is important that we un-cover more facts and data before you condemn companies and people.

One day we might not trust any Pakistani at all and we end up living in a McCarthy era where even good people are bad.

phoenix rising!

You are most welcome. Sometimes I am single.

t #55:

``By a twist of Freudian logic when I came across the catch phrase ‘Return, Recycle, Reuse’ I took to recycling instantly. I cycle around a lot. There is a bike trail along the lake --- Martin Goodman Trail that hugs the lake for miles in either direction.``

heheh...

Good poem by the way and looks like you`re gonna have to go for the sharp shiny object. They`ve only posted one new one despite the fact that the couple at the bottom have been quite dead for some time now.

Because the internet rose from the good ol` days of being solely the domain of ``geeks`` that a stigma has arisen to any social interaction via the Net.

In the 7 years that I`ve been surfing, my opinions on the Net have evolved from it being a ``gee whiz`` techie toy to a communication and information tool that I use just like I`d use the telephone/newspapers/books or anything else. Once the novelty wore off, the Net took it`s place beside any other ``real-life`` activities.

There are inherent risks when establishing any new relationship. With online, one doesn`t even know whether the person on the other is really male or female. but beyond that the unknown factor is very real when one meets through the more traditional real life methods as well.

To cite an example for meeting potential spouses very common in the west... boy meets girl in a bar. Does girl know much about him aside from the fact that he`s cute and charming? He could be an axe murderer for all she knows. She`ll have to turn on her instincts and common sense from that point onward when getting to know him.

Now lets cite an example of a method for meeting potential spouses very common in the ``East``. Girl receives Rishta from the family whom they don`t know very well. Parents have to do research on their own on the guy and his family.

I don`t know about others but i`ve heard of lots of cases of mother forcing a rishta on her son to a girl against his will when he was involved with someone else. After the marriage the girl finds out about the other woman but now there isn`t anything she can do about it.

So bottom line is no method of meeting people is foolproof. Caution, Common Sense and Instincts should be the order of the day when meeting anyone through any method.

Cheers,

Fozia

scout #49:

[I`ve collected two garbage bags of soda cans for you.]

ON RECYCLING

By a twist of Freudian logic when I came across the catch phrase ‘Return, Recycle, Reuse’ I took to recycling instantly. I cycle around a lot. There is a bike trail along the lake --- Martin Goodman Trail that hugs the lake for miles in either direction. I digress.

Leave the soda cans by the side entrance, not the pavement. I will collect them and turn them in for the deposit. Return, Recycle, Reuse. Who knows, depending on what happens here I may exchange the proceeds for a full can or two of the brew or for a sharp shiny object. (Wanna share, O Ayesha of the disorder infamy?)

What happens here merely alludes to the appearance of my various artworks. (Now that is what else but recycling of WORDS!) There’s one on eloquence written and submitted when Nawaz was still in power and another a tribute to Intezar Hussain the Urdu symbolic short story maestro. He is in town for an Urdu Anjuman Meet on Oct 8. I wish the organizers had the fore-thought to invite Dr. Muhammed Omar Memon of Wisc.U who had done so much to introduce him to the English world. Reminds me: must do piece on him to introduce him and his works to the vast Urdu diaspora not in academia. And another on beauty contest --purdah style. And another on ....

Patience is a virtue. I am tiring of virtue. It is a lonely existence. And running thin on patience. Hence the wistful thoughts about sharp gleaming whirling objects. Recycling souls. Words. ---- (Like this: might re-do as a short poem.)


[Patience, virtue’s soul
or harlot?
stretched and spread thin
-------(remember, we’re six billion?)-----
thinning like ozone
not enough to go around
gaps and holes
that let in
no light, dream or smile
but dark visions
of an end
that waits --- patiently.]

(.....and they say words are mightier than most sharp objects...)

love.

temporal

PS: Reality check: still early. Will wake up soon. Sorry if this spoils lunch.

RSaxena, scout, temporal

Poochtey Hain woh ke krashid kon Hain

Koi batlao ke hum batlaen kia.

I think I am krashid. After that anybody can guess.

Phoenix rising#

Have you ever tried single ads.

35 years old single female looking for a calm and dashing male. fun loving etc.

45 uears old bisexual looking for a couple for fun.

Just curious.

Phoenix Rising #46,

*sniff sniff * Tissue please!

Your long ``aap beeti`` was even better than the article. Sorry Zeejah :)

In reply to #: 40 RSaxena

Greetings! - Don`t you think you are being a bit too harsh? Sadly, some folks have this terrible idea about meeting online, others like myself, see online and offline meetings with both, plus and minus points. Heck, life does not come with guarantees! Can you say with assurance that meeting someone offline in the physical world is going to turn out better? Nah, I think not.

=zensufi.com=

Rsaxena #40, ``It`s usually the suckers who have social problems to begin with who go looking for relationships on the net.``

Do you speak from experience?

Sorry, couldn`t help it. :)

Bored Grandma #40,

``Behind the internet`s veil, krashid could really be a cranky little girl,

scout a WWF wrestler, temporal a beach bum from California, and I a bored grandma.``

Holy Cow!! How`d you find that out? ;)

They call me Red Lightning.

t_bhai,

I`ve collected two garbage bags of soda cans for you.

Re: temporal

Actually, I chose those adjectives carefully :)

Rsaxena # 40

Thats the funniest post I ever read :)))

Awakening Hopeful #28:

CONFUSED and CONFUSING CONFUSIONS

[Aaray bhai, kuoon borah mantay ho.
Kabi kabi insaan ko cheekhnah be thow partha hai.
May agar cheekh para to koi bari baath nahi
... aasmaan thow nahe toot para!]


Mas’ala yeh hay pyaray bhai ya pyari behan kay aap nay ‘cheekh para’ likh kar humain tazabzoob maiN dal dia hay. (Used to have a Hyderabadi friend in pre-M. She consistently spoke of ‘main kaam kara raha hooN, maiN naha raha hooN, main paRRh raha hooN!)

Don’t know how, but I sort of gathered from other interactions that you are a female.

On a certain level it does not matter. Who says we cannot be gender-free and anonymous at the same time in this medium.

Laikin ab humaray liyay is baat ka taiy’yum buhat zaroori ho gaya hay. Go kay ziyadah tur hum hadd maiN rehtay haiN, laikin kabhi kabhi srif zaiqaa bad’l lainay kay liyay hum bay-adub bhi ho jaatay haiN. Laikin is`kay ba’wajood hum sinf-e-naazouk say phir bhee hud maiN reh kar baat karna chahtay haiN. Bus, bachchpun ki paRRi hu’ie ik boori aadat samajh lijiyay.

Confused, but hopefully not confusing,

aap ka

temporal

RSaxena #40:

[Behind the internet`s veil, krashid could really be a cranky little girl, scout a WWF wrestler, temporal a beach bum from California, and I a bored grandma.]

---Truth is guaranteed-- to use the creaking cliché ---stranger than fiction. Of the adjectives you used I can personally vouch for the near accuracy for two --- Scout is a sort of ‘wrestler’ of the fairy-tooth kind and am a bum of sorts. As for the other two -- no, I won’t hazard a guess --- or two I guess --- come on folks --- confession time----:)

tahmed321 #37:

[... suna hai sar bhi ganja ho jata hai.]

---- yaar pata nahiN kis duniya maiN rehtay haiN hum. So the hair too? That explains.

Moucho gracias brother tahmed321. All of a sudden the Quantum Theory of ‘that’ has fallen into place. As I look at the reflection I see reading glasses and thinning hair and ................. H E L P! ;)

rgds,

t