Al-Quds Divided: The Politics of Hatred

RE: krashid# 78

Dear Rashid!

A very good analysis of the situation and you have drawn the right conclusions. I picked the following up from a Kashmiri site:

``The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people``

Martin Luther King - Nobel Prize Winner

Scout:

Remember the images of that child?

A sharp amd perceptive piece reading between the lines of the media coverage and analyising and lamenting from his view point. (This is the same media that tires not of using `moderate` before most mention of news from Saudi Amreeka, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait and other tailer waggers.)

Western media`s biases

Dr Muzaffar Iqbal

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2000-daily/13-10-2000/oped/o1.htm

love,

t

Re fairdinkum

I am re-gurgitating and memorizing and what are you doing? Churning out a brand new PhD thesis full of the most original ideas in the world? Pal, this cuts both ways!

We are in USA, where the propaganda for Israel is superior. Even then, sometimes to show their FAIRNESS few things which come to light are.

1- The INNOCENT ISRAELI soldiers were killed. (comment or laugh).

2- The peace process is one sided where they are just harping on peace process and not the content of peace accord.

3- Like a Palestinian said that Jews are free to go to their homeland, while an American Palestinian is not allowed to return to Palestine.

4- Almost all the nation of the world were unanimous in condemning Israel for their atrocities except America.

5- The Palestinians have already yielded enough in peace process and Arafat cannot face his people if he yields further.

All the Arab countries who had diplomatic relations with Israel have recalled their ambassador from Israel.

6- America is a broker and umpire, but is partial and one sided.

An interesting article on the Israel/Palestine Conflict. Role of US in Fiasco. Thought i should share with the learned people. here..

Asim

Stop the violence or we stop the aid



By Greg Jerrett

Iowa State Daily

Friday, October 13, 2000.

The current situation in Israel has been going on for decades and will

likely go on for decades more. While the violence in the Middle East is

shocking, what is more shocking is the typical lack of concern most

Americans show for it.

Americans are more concerned with how the violence will affect the stock

market than how many Palestinians are murdered.

Two things happened yesterday to make an already complex situation more

arcane for America.

Two Israeli soldiers took a wrong turn into Ramallah, West Bank, and after

failing to find refuge with Palestinian police, were killed by a mob while

the cameras captured every gruesome detail of the lynching.

Israel, of course, retaliated by brutally murdering a whole host of

Palestinians, bombing radio stations and an ambulance while the cameras

captured every brutal detail of the slaughter.

During a routine refueling in a Yemeni harbor on the Arabian Peninsula, a

40-foot hole was ripped in the side of the USS Cole in what the major news

networks are calling an act of terrorism.

According to Associated Press, President Clinton urged the Israelis and

Palestinians to set aside their hatred, return to the peace talks and “stop

the bloodshed, to restore calm.”

Meanwhile, the other side of his mouth was saying those responsible for

“what now appears to be an act of terrorism” against our Navy will be found

and held accountable.

In a CNN interview, Senator John McCain spoke with barely-contained anger as

he gave his word that the craven cowards who attacked a defenseless American

warship would pay dearly for this affront.

Americans find it so easy to counsel patience to countries they view as

inferior. We tell the Palestinians and Israelis to not act emotionally under

circumstances we cannot begin to fathom.

What is worse, is we tend to lay everything at the feet of the Palestinians

while forgiving our “friend” Israel.

Well, our friend Israel is a nasty piece of work, and it is high time

Americans realized that.

Our friend Israel is like that friend who hangs up on us for calling at

midnight then calls back at 3 a.m. for a favor. Israel is the kind of friend

who takes and takes aid from us, talks smack about us behind our backs, then

blows off our birthday every year.

Our relationship with Israel defies analogy, but this one works: with

friends like Israel, who needs Nazis?

Our relationship began as many relationships do out of pity. We felt sorry

for the atrocities of World War II, who wouldn’t?

Jews around the world were looking for their own state to ensure that no one

would ever brutalize their people again the way the Germans did in that war.

We were eager to help. We pushed for an independent Jewish state in

Palestine with the help of the British and without considering the people

who were living there.

No American worth his salt would tolerate another country carving up his

land to make room for what amounted to foreigners, yet we expected the

Palestinians to take it in stride. More than likely we just didn’t care.

And we still don’t care.

Most people think of Palestinians and terrorists as interchangeable. Yasser

Arafat isn’t accorded the respect of a world leader in the minds of the

average American.

Americans are stuck in a pathetic 1970s mindframe when it comes to world

politics and most don’t want to change.

Well, it is time for a change. When Israelis murder Palestinians, let’s not

call it a “limited action.” Let’s not act all shocked and horrified when two

soldiers are killed in a war their country started.

Blood cries out for blood, this cannot be denied. We call for the heads of

those who attack us, and are we not civilized?

We can expect no less from our friends in Palestine.

Perhaps the United States should lead by example in this case. Rather than

assuming what happened to the Cole was terrorism, let’s give the people of

Yemen the benefit of the doubt — at least until the forensic evidence comes

in.

And when it does, we should set aside bloodshed and thoughts of revenge to

show our angry friends in Israel and Palestine just how easy it is to

overcome hatred in the name of peace, even if that peace means taking one

for the team.

But we can no longer expect Palestinians to lay down and die like good,

little victims when they are being slaughtered by the Israelis.

Americans can no longer afford to be so naive as to wonder why we are hated

in parts of the Middle East. We got on the wrong side, and we stayed on the

wrong side.

Our friends inIsrael are killing rock-wielding Palestinians with our

weapons. We gave them the choppers and the missiles, and it is time for us

to tell Israel enough is enough. Stop the violence, or we stop the aid.

Maybe when Israelis are fighting rocks with rocks, peace will suddenly seem

like a good idea to them

re krashid

your point

`6- America is a broker and umpire, but is partial and one sided.`

If I recollect accurately, the PLO and Israel BOTH agreed for the US to be the broker. If both parties didn`t think the umpire would be neutral, they should`ve gotten a more neutral refree like, say, SYria or Iraq.

The larger context of the problem is, of course, that since time immemorial the radical Arabs(as opposed to the reasonable ones) have envied the relationship between Israel and the USA. They cannot understand it and, hence, make mistake after mistake in trying to fracture it with stupid comments. The United States, people and government alike, consider Israel a friend and a kindred democracy in a sea of, well, rather medieval dictatorships. As long as that image does not change, Israel will remain on the minds and hearts of America. No amount of criticism towards the media or the bigotry towards ``Jewish`` influences is going to change that. If Arabs and Palestinians want to garner the friendship and respect of the US at par with Israel, they have to do the hard thing: shape up, civilise, and enter the community of tolerant, democratic societies where blowing up airplanes and ships is universally condemned and anti-semitism looked down upon.

786

I cannot believe that people here actually believe in the so-called ``peace process``; it is the biggest sham in history and almost a total climb down from Yasser Arafat. What has he achieved so far?

There is only one way to get rid of this problem--either destroy or be destroyed. Admitedly the Ummah is not yet in a position to take on Israel directly (as it is backed by USA) but by adopting the methodology of Hamas and Hizbullah the Muslims can at least bleed Israel dry via another Intifada until the time in the future, and Allah knows how far or near, when the Mahdi alayhi salaam appears to rid the world of this irritant cancer in the heart of the Muslim World for ever.

It is time to show solidarity with the martyrs of Palestine not discuss ``peace``. The british journalist Robert Fisk of the Independent Newspaper (www.independent.co.uk) tells the unbiased truth of the situation and all those interested in the brutal realities of the Zionist occupation and the sham of the so-called ``peace process`` should read his columns.

I am wondering--cannot Musharraf offer the Palestinians any help--if the ISI can fund the mujahideen in Kashmir, why not those in Palestine (via Jordan - or Iran/Lebanon/Syria) with weapons like rocket launchers..? I tell you, the day Pakistan gets an Islamic government, the liberation of Al Quds al Shareef will not be far away, insha Allah...

Meanwhile all the Muslim countries should totally boycott the Zionist state and the Saudis should use the oil weapon against the Masters of Israel, the US of A...

Also visit www.hamas.org

It is important to remember that Palestine is not only an Arab problem, it is an Islamic problem and until the leaders realise this it cannot be solved.

We must not get disheartened; we must remember the glorious battle of Al-Khaybar and let it inspire us and we should remind the Zionists of the fate of the Bani Qurayza afterwards..

I end with a hadith:



Book 041, Number 6985: [SahiH Muslim]

Abu Huraira reported Allah`s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The

last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the

Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a

tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew

behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree

of the Jews.

Asif #88,

It ain`t gonna happen dude. What goes on in the world is plain and simple: the powerful step on the weak. And in this day and age, the weak are Muslims. Every Muslim country is suffering in one way or another. And when countries suffer, the high and mighty West disappears. When the damage is being done, there`s no one. When the damage is done, the United States appears with it`s military broom to clean things up.

Your hadiths, your jihads will not work. Drop them and take example from the Jews. Despite being persecuted and killed off, today they are indirectly ruling the West. How? Because they kept their religion safely and respectfully locked behind their personal homes while building a solid foundation for themselves through education and business.

I agree that what`s happening in Israel is wrong. But we can only watch. We don`t have the power to do anything beyond words. Why? Because people like you and other fundamentalists are too busy defining Islam, butchering it, and feeding misconceptions to your peers.

You have a hand in creating this problem. Now bear it, however painful it may be.

re asif naqshbandi #88

Israel has come to stay. With peace, without peace, in spite of peace, she will stay. She will stay with an undivided Jerusalem as her ancient and eternal capital. The Arabs have tried five wars and numerous cowardly attacks on Israeli civillians. Nothing has worked. When Hitler with 6 million couldn`t detroy those people what makes you think that some future messiah will(that is if he even wants too)?

In the process of survival, Israel will one day visit sure and swift retribution on the likes of Hamas. If Entebbe and Tunis are any indication, Hamas will get its due too.

As for people like you who have so brazenly twisted religious texts to create a God who is anti-semitic, well join the club of many a Protestant fundamentalist groups. At least Adolf Eichmann never claimed a divine mission to liquidate Jews. You guys do.

Re: asif naqsha

You go boy. Don`t get discouraged, it is time for the mother of all Jihads. All muslims from the world should unite and fight the evil Israelis and other assorted kafirs who support them. Once that mother of all Jihad armies has wiped out Israel, it can head to the shores of America, India, and then Russia.

In response to sigalph (Reply #: 90)

Dear sigalph235:

Your statement: ``Israel has come to stay.``

Comment: How could you be so sure? Remember the British once rule the globe and they were most certainly (according to some, including them)going to stay in India.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

re bahmad

Actually I should credit the late Mr Suhrawardy and the late King Hassan II for the remark about Israel being here to stay. Muslim leaders have been predicting the demise of Israel for the last fifty years. Hasn`t happened. They have blamed the durability of the little giant on the supposed largesse of the US. But Israel is still here after fighting five wars against enemies far superior in numbers and equipment every time.

Look closely at Israel my friend. It has a resolute character and a hardy people. They will stay because they will fight. They will fight because else they will be thrown into the sea. These folks went through one exile and survived thousands of years of prejudice, overt and covert, and yet managed to keep the semblance of peoplehood. When the Poles, Nazis, and Communists couldn`t destroy them, it is unlikely that Arabs will.

As for the British Empire, are you sure it is gone? What language are we using on this forum? What is the lingua franca of the world including the former Russian and French colonies? Who`s judicial and criminal justice system do the Indians, Pakistanis, and Australians follow? What is the game that 22 players in white play for six days?The point is that the British Empire is perpetually alive and well in its cultural aspect.

ahmadb #92,

As long as the US wants to keep Israel as it`s favorite mistress, to have and to hold, from a distance, Israel will stay.

God`s justice is not for mortal men.

Scout #89

I would disagree with the main thrust of your post.

There is no doubt, that jews have tried to consolidate their foundations in economics out of fear of persecution done to them throughout the centuries, hopefully to prevent it again.

But their reason is not religious but psedo-religious. First they think themselves as choosen people of God, which is against the equality of human race. For the same reason, they think other people inferior. Their behaviour is determined by this. Where ever they stay, they try to subjugate the population by their control of economy, that produces a backlash against them. It was same in Russia, same in Germany in last couple of centuries.

Moreover, since they divide humans into Jews and gentile. For themselves jews create some standards, but for gentiles they think that they are below human dignity. Also because of this thinking, morality does not come into consideration, when they think of gentiles. You can see which business jews are in and how they make money by corrupting the society. Hollywood is jewish controlled. And so is the media. Also all their actions are in legal framework, even massacre is done legally. Prime example is Iraq, where millions of people of an oil rich country died, legally. (Vis-a-vis Israel against whom none of the UN Resolutions are binding). Just see Government in Norway could not take oath, people having anti-semitic sentiments are not tolerated (Anti-Muslim, Anti-hindu and anti-Christian sentiments are tolerated all over the world)

I can go on and on. But to say in short. I would rather die a pauper and happy than believing in that kind of ideology and be sadist.

It does not mean that I am not in favor of upliftment. We should realize that education and economic activity is not only not against religion, but is pro-religion. During Hajj one of the important ritual, it is allowed to do business and Hajj together. Also In Koran and Hadith importance of education is stressed repeatedly. In Koran not only natural phenomenon are repeatedly pointed out, but it is stressed to think on those phenomenon. (What can we do that our Ulema to keep control on people restrict education to religious education only).

Siagalp #87

By all account this is true.

Intifada as you know had no relation with Yasser Arafat and was an indigenous movement in Palestine. Israel was putting lot of its resources towards fighting it. To counter it they brought, Yasser Arafat for a peace deal. None of the palestinian I talked is in favor of this deal, because it is humiliating. Mind that this land belongedd to Palestinians a while back. (How did Yasser Arafat became a leader from a terrorist of West in one day). In the current situation, Clinton has openly said to move its Capital to Jerusalem, while even according to that humiliating document called peace deal this matter of jerusalem is unresolved. Do you think Clinton is a neutral umpire. All the American officials were first in criticizing the death of two Israeli soldiers, while they were careful not to utter a single word in the killing of palestinians by Israeli Soldiers. (The whole world except America has condemned it)

Do you think Palestinians would think it as neutrality or one-sided, partial negotiator and broker.

In response to sigalph235

Dear sigalph235:

Politicians often say thing to suit particular times, events, goals, etc. Specific statements need to be seen and assessed in light a longer time frame. I don’t know how much you know about the history of the state of Israel. I suspect that you do understand the role of the US in the creation and the expanded reproduction of the state of Israel. Like you, I am also appreciative of some aspects of the Israeli people. What I don’t share with you is your indirect legitimization of the injustices against the poor, innocent, and oppressed Palestinians.

Your comment regarding cultural imperialism is well taken. Yet, the beneficiaries of this form of imperialism are not really the British. Britain is no more hegemonic and Israel is only 52 year old.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad