Beware of Ariel Morons and Protect Your Children!

Ylh #111:

``Pakistani: Any inhabitant of the land of Pakistan, a country that lies to the West of the Land of India and the East of the Lands of Iran and Afghanistan!``

Reading Ylh`s post, I somehow feel a twinge of pity for his confused self, still trying to make out a Pakistani identity. I agree however that every nation needs an identity that all of its citizens can identify with, and the sooner this is done the better. Pakistan is a diverse nation and is here to stay, despite all the doom-and-gloom of the pessimists.

I think Pakistanis would do themselves good if they acknowledged their past (ie of mostly being from the sub-continent, not some Arabian desert) and the shared heritage of the sub-continent to which their ancestors themselves have contributed in no small way.

Regards.

Banjaara,

Thankyou for comment.. I am not sure if it was sarcasm or for real.

Tahmed

Thankyou sir... I am sorry that I needed to respond that way ... but YME`s last post wasnt really all that mature either... Post 100 I believe...

Yasser

Actually if you had cared to notice ... pakistanis or Indians for that matter were not beating down on me...

It was a fundoo ... with whom you will get along very nicely (Hindoo-Fundoo Nexus ie Azaad-Gandhi?)

I was asking YME not to Indulge in Pan Islamic Fantasies...

Last time we talked about the Turks you didnt answer me ... maybe because you ran out of argument ... care to answer my questions on ``Hindus of Pakistan``?

Thankyou

Yasser

PS I have had it with your Rutgers Bashing .. we were offered IVY League status yesterday any comments ... Also IBM announced that its second largest recruiting is done at Rutgers .. Interesting... ever been to New Brunswick????

yme #112 you write ``National borders are fast becoming irrelevant.Nationalism ought to be hastened to its grave with a blow to the head.``

Agreed.

However, the issue of shifting populations will not not disappear with the growing irrelevance of nation states and national boundaries.

ylh #113 I can at this stage only condemn your name-calling of other chowk members (I refer to your use of the term ``fundos``). You have no right to engage in personal insults, even if you disagree with the other person`s views.

ylh # 111

``Allah karay zor-e-qalam aur zeyada``

What else can you say after reading his latest

``Shahkaar``.

Regards.

Re: ymh

``The brave new order in this world is the brotherhood/sisterhood of knowledge,power and money, I can go and live anywhere in the world today because i am educated,wealthy and powerful.``

Couldn`t have said it better myself. I wish everyone would realize that.

I strongly suggest you people stop beating up ylh here. Especially Pakistanis. He is arranging for a Turkish sponsored debt relief fund for Pakistan and also arranging for them to form an EU-like union with Pakistan. Just the other day all the Turks were singing ``jeevay Pakistan`` at Rutgers. Furthermore, he has secret messages from Jinnah which are going to save the day for Pakistan and if you keep pissing him off, he won`t tell you. So there.

YME

No it is not working.. you cannot incite people against me... we recognize you for what you are... an ignorant fundoo!!!!! Be a Pakistani first and then a Muslim....

Kant Patel,

I believe that you understand the intricacies of the Partition much better than what your statement betrays. Ref: Your posts on the thread of ``review of Jinnah``.

Yes you have your perspective and I have mine. To me 1940`s Lahore Resolution doesnt matter as much as the 11th August Speech by Quaid-e-Azam. Pakistan was in essence was made for the right of the minorities. Unfortunately by failing to go beyond the Lahore resolution Pakistanis have very sadly tore to pieces the very reason that they exist as a nation today.

The only way Pakistan is going to live upto the reason it was made, is by recognizing the Lahore Resolution as a thing of the past and along with it the day dreams and fantasies of Allama Iqbal.

It is time to recognize the wisdom and truth of those words uttered on 11th August 1947 by Mr Jinnah.

There are two ways of doing this .....

The First Way....... (Ataturkian Method)

I am going to list the Things that need to be done to make Pakistan a distinct and seperate Nation from all Muslim Nations and India as well. Sorry if what I am about to say is not intellectual enough for the Historians and pseudo Intellectuals of Chowk. I have admitted on many occasions that I am a Nationalist not an intellectual for Intellectuals are only close to Defeatism.

Sorry if I borrow too much from the Turk Nationalists.

This is just one way of doing it

1) Urdu needs to purged of its Hindi Verbs. Hence we need to develop new verbs.

2) Research should be undertaken to prove that civilization began in what is now Pakistan. Harrapa Valley Civilization should be portrayed as the World`s first civilization, and Vedic Dharam originating from what is now Pakistan to be the world`s oldest religion.

3) Harappa Valley to my knowledge (and Historical inquiry in the US) doesnot extend too far into India and whatever part of it is in India(If any)

should be vehemently denied.

4) Pakistanization of Islam should be undertaken giving the Pakistani Islam a distinct character.

5) Efforts should be made Historically to prove that Prophet Muhammad and his ancestors had actually migrated from what is now Pakistan.

6) It is proven Historically proven that for most of its 5000 year History what is now Pakistan was under different sovereignty than the rest of India. An effort should now be made to prove that Pakistan was never ever part of India.

We could do this OR

The second way (Jinnahian Method)

We could simply say that whatever our past is ...

is in our Past ... WE ARE PAKISTANIS TODAY AND PAKISTANIS FOREVER... though we might have been

Indians, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, etc in the Past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modern Definition of Pakistani

Pakistani: Any inhabitant of the land of Pakistan, a country that lies to the West of the Land of India and the East of the Lands of Iran and Afghanistan!

Pakistan Zindabad!!!!

ylh #104 I think you have a point, and I am sorry to have put you down unfairy. You do make a good point concerning the need to avoid having every Tom, Dick and Harry - from the sub-continent, Afghanistan, middle east, Africa or wherever - act as if Pakistan owes them anything simply because they have a muslim name. Too many such people have abused the natural hospitality of our poor people, too many have instigated violence and crime in our country, for me to reluctantly come to this conclusion. However, yme did say one thing which I think was correct criticism - your have more than once asked Indian contributors to shoo-off the chowk. I object to that since no one has a right to tell someone else to get off a discussion group, and indeed the presence of people with other perspectives adds to the richness of the discussion. And many of the Indian contributors are among the best we have on chowk. I will go over your earlier posts in a couple of days, and may get back to you with more on this. (This is a bit hurriedly written, so hope I have not sent any unintended messages!!)

YLH #107

So, that resolution was conditional upon getting the whole of Bengal and Punjab!

``NOW (my emphasis) we don`t need Muslimness to define Pakistan``.

Meaning Jinnah, Liaquat Ali, et al, were opportunist! Does that logic applies to the Mohajirs too, now! Please go over your post several times and ponder what it implies.

Kant.....sans slogans:-)

SameerJB

Your statement,``I personally like to side with India in the matters not relating to Pakistan and thus my assessment might be subjective``



In fact I have seen such kind of love-hate relationship for Pakistan especially prominent among older generation. Most of the people of my Grandfather`s age remember partition and its agony but also say in the same vein that afterall we lived together for centuries like brothers. They fondly remember Mushayaras, Urdu Ghazals( which interestingly has its origin in Indo-Gangetic plains). My grandfather used to respect many of his Muslim friends for their ``Iman``. He told me that a true Muslim is one who has ``Iman``. They tell stories of Lahore when it was at its zeneith during British age and the friendliness between Hindus and Muslims.

Sadly enough, the people of my generation are increasingly becomming anti Muslim and anti Pakistani. Many of them are intolerent, inflexible and prejudiced. Part of this may be because of the 11 years of terrorism in Kashmir and part may be Kargil. India media also has not been completely fair. If the older generation phases out without teaching younger generation the values of tolerence and friendship, perhaps we might loose the last vestiges of goodwill amongst us.

Sincerely

That resolution also presupposed that the whole of Punjab and whole Bengal would be a part of Pakistan. Plus I reckon the whole Muslim issue was means to an end.... now we dont need Muslimness to define Pakistan...

Re: Tahmed #977

Of course he bit! Now watch how hard he bites the next time around. And as for you, you did second my motion for this article to break the 1189 mark but you have disappointed me by your meager contribution. Come on now where`s the 110%?

ylh # 104

I wish you would read the Pakistan Resolution passed at Lahore in 1940,wherein it is stated amongst other points that, Pakistan will be the home of ALL the Muslims of India.

Regards.

Tahmed

Surely, you have to be kidding. A person who suggests that ``Ummat e Muhammadia unite`` ... or

suggests opening Pakistan`s borders from filth from all over the Islamic World and India needs to graduate to manhood first. Maybe you should read the rather mature post #76 by YME.

People like you are the ones who drive me over the edge. Had you read my posts you would see the wisdom of my words.. but no you would rather follow stereotype all my posts. Fine its your loss!

YME ... I ask you what is this Ummat e Muhammadia you talk about? I dont know of any such entity. To me the Ummat e Muhammadia is an abstract concept preached in mosques for which I care little.

True that My ancestors came from Iran 7 centuries ago BUT I am not Iranian... I am a PAKISTANI!! and a human being but nothing else.. and I tell you Pakistan is for Pakistanis alone ... those who wish to love it .. and serve it... and be loyal to it before anything else... be it their own self .. or the misinterpretted religion that you scounderels turn to.

I will not let Muslim filth from Arabia, Afghanistan, India or the so called Islamic Iran ruin Pakistan ... they have already done enough damage in the last 20 years!!!!!!!

Away with the dreams and Shadows!

Pakistan FOR the Pakistanis!!!!!

Pakistan Zindabad

Quaid e Azam Zindabad

Ataturk Zindabad

Jiye Bhutto

Imran Khan for PM

PS Its time you Indian Muslims started being loyal to India!!!!!