Beware of Ariel Morons and Protect Your Children!

Macgupta

Have you not read what I have written???? Did I term Gandhi a Moron????????????

READ MY POST AGAIN COMPLETELY...

As far as Jallianwallah incident is concerned, I only took the view that I believe that Propaganda Movie ``Gandhi`` took ... it showed clearly that it was the inspiration provided by the ``Mahatma`` that led those people to disobey those orders and hence got them killed... the truth is that you can only accuse the one person who ordered the firing ... he alone can be termed as a Moron ... General Dwyer.... but if you go according to Udaykumar`s analysis ... Gandhi also becomes a Moron ...

Gandhi had also advised the British in World War2

not to fight back ... ``to get slaughtered man woman and child and but not to accept the German rule in their souls....`` (Freedom at Midnight Collins) I believe that had British taken his advice ... their fate collectively would have been the same as the martyrs of Jallianwallah Massacre.

I am not calling Gandhi a moron for in my opinion he doesnot qualify as one. However some of the blame does lie on Gandhi`s shoulders... for he had initiated a National Movement for which neither the masses nor the British were ready ...hence precious loss of life ...

And forget Jallianwallah or even Chaura Chauri .. by supporting the Khilafat Movement Gandhi actually led to the rise of the revivalist Movements on both Muslim and Hindu sides... I actually quoted 6 points ... why is that you guys have only stuck to attacking one ... Am I to understand that you accept the rest of the 5...

Thankyou

Yasser Hamdani

In reply to ylh (#35): show me one student of history, apart from yourself and your imagination who blames Mahatma Gandhi for Jallianwala Bagh.

Get your brain together, and realize that there is a difference between fact and opinion. You can term Gandhi a moron, and that is your opinion, one can`t really argue with it.

``X is directly or indirectly responsible for Y`` is a statement of fact.

---

To return to Udayakumar`s article, it is a nice fuzzy feel-good article with which all ``right-thinking`` people can agree with, with much self-congratulation.

The fact is that neither Barak nor Arafat has the political strength to be able to make any concession on Jerusalem. Therefore the peace talks areat a stand-still, and those who oppose any settlement have a field day.

To go down the list of wrongs --

Ariel Sharon was wrong to have visited the Temple Mount in times of such tension -- it was like reopening a wound.

The Palestinians` reaction is understandable but not justifiable. No one can really provoke you into riot against your own will. In any case, the Israelis aspire to a Western-style liberal democracy, and non-violent methods would be effective against them as a strategy, even if you don`t subscribe to Ahimsa as a principle.

The Israelis should have met stone-throwing rioters with rubber bullets and tear-gas, not machine guns and helicopters.

The Palestinians should not have torn down the shrine to Joseph when Barak withdrew Israeli troops in an attempt to calm things down.

The Palestians are miscalculating if they think that the withdrawal was because of their strength and Israeli weakness.

Also, not even the most peacenik Israeli will now agree to any concessions on Jerusalem since Jewish shrines are ``demonstrably`` not safe.

The escalation to Lebanon, Hizbullah, etc. is also wrong.

If you can`t state what is wrong, you don`t have a chance of fixing it.

-arun gupta

Re: Krashid # 33

Israel is not being clipped by the west. Yes, Uncle Sam is upset over Little David selling his slings and arrows, but not to the extent of marginalizing Tel Aviv.

If you would have followed what SecState Albright said and according to her, the Americans are having problems with Israel, because the Israelis have gone into a siege mentality: Masada Complex and they are seeing the uprising as a threat to the existence of Israel itself.

In otherwords, two of Israel`s most important Muslim friends are Turkey and Jordan, with whom it shares a deepening military relationship and both of these nation`s silence over the matter has been deafening!

The problem, which is concerning the Americans and one, which they learned during the war in Afghanistan is that Muslims, if they feel their religion being threatened, will willingly die for it and given the Herr Sharon`s visit to the compound of the Al-Quds, the Muslims are seeing that as an Israeli state sponsered visit and because of this, consider themselves to be in a state of war with Israel!

The crisis is being further fueled by Clinton`s indecision to stamp an American position over the issue; this is an election year and Clinton cannot afford to irk the Jewish vote, specially since his wife needs them to secure a senate seat this November and neither can Clinton undertake any action, which would end up costing Gore the elections given the fact that GWB`s aura is starting to fray at the edges!

The Arabs are responding to the Israeli attempts to invade the inner sanctum of Al-Quds and not against the Israeli tactics against the Palestinians per se! The Arab/Muslim response is at what they consider to be an attack on their religion and do not see the problem in political terms as the Israelis do!

The Americans see the issue in purely political terms and thus, tend to agree with and are supportive of Israel, but given their entanglements in the Middle East and their sanctions regime against Iraq, are weary of treading onto the Arab toes. American interests in the region are on the defensive, because if Turkey vacates the Americans from Incirlik and denies them the right to use Turkish soil for enforcing the air corridors over Iraq, then the American sanctions regime against has been invalidated and this coupled with the other countries landing their planes and flying into Iraq, against the express wishes of British and the Americans, the American policy in the region is under pressure; Europe is more attracted to an emergent moderate Iran than it is on keeping Iran isolated as per American intentions!

Right now things are in a flux and they will become clear after November 7, 2000 and till then, Israel has a window of opportunity to settle this issue and after that, America will be forced to do something! Remember, the Muslim voting bloc is becoming crucial in swing states like Michigan and thus, the American-Muslims now have a clout, which they did not have and CAIR has been very effective in mobilizing Muslim view point in American politics! It has a long way to, but it has already taken its first baby steps!

The stakes are too high and we will just have to see who bluffs and who will fold!

Ciao!

What a childish way to show that you are (rightly) outraged - making fun of a name and that too not cleverly?

Jumhuriet

Thankyou for your kind words. I have come to the conclusion that I cant help the situation by getting into arguments with Jay and Rsaxena... they unfortunately crave confrontation.

Once again everyone is invited and urged to come to the Palestinian rally tommorow.

The rest,

Please hold your personal attacks on me till I am done with

1) Taking my calc exam tommorow

2) Preparing for my Speech.

Yasser Hamdani

#35
some students of History might blame it on ``XYZ`` ... since ``XYZ`` was the one who was advocating non cooperation .. and thats what got those people killed in ``ABC`` ... the ``EFG`` demonstrators stand their ground because of the ``XYZ`` principle of ``WXY``...
http://sg.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=singapore/headlines/001010/world/afp/Twelve_days_of_clashes_in_Palestinian_territories_and_Israel.html

``Twelve days of clashes pitting Israeli forces against Palestinians and Israeli Arabs have caused more than 90 deaths and more than 1,000 injured, nearly all Palestinians. Following is a chronology of the main incidents: ...``

Sadhana

My sincere sympathies with the author (he of `communalism combat` fame) that despite his not so subtle hints (subtlety not being one of the commie traits), no one has yet taken up the real issue he is interested in - how similar are all the villains of the history - hitler, mussolini, israeli zionists, the lot - to the so called `hindu nationalists` of India, the real incarnations of Nazis, Fascists, Attila the Hun....(rath yatra, kar seva etc... dont they remind you of the holocaust? no? you must be a crazed hindu fascist yourself!)

Anyway, now that I have brought it out in open, maybe the thirsty soul of the author will have some `real discussion` to observe and participate in...

krashid:

Your response to ylh is interesting where you said that although YLH put Gandhi with Jesus and Buddha. None of the Indian equated Jinnah with YLH version. i.e Ata-Turk etc.

I wrote that the Indians on this site didnt equate Gandhi with Jesus and Buddha, I didnt write about equating Jinnah and Ataturk.

And I am sorry that the argument turned away from the Palestinian plight.

Hamdani, have a good night`s sleep. Your letter was quite clear; no possibility of `misunderstanding`, I assure you. If, after the provisos and caveats that you, clearly, introduced in your post somebody still mis-understands, then it`s their problem, not yours. Isn`t it?

Enjoy a good night`s sleep. Looking at Viking`s post -- ``...I am a fan of two: Jay and RSSexna...`` -- it seems you have your work cut out or you although, if I were you, I would assume that these two have ceased to exist from my universe as of October 10, 2000. Kh`s k`m, jahaN pak! That way I`ll get even! [Should you not think that you are I, then remember that Jay has minimum functional intelligence; that is, he knows for what is the toilet roll in the bathroom. Don`t expect this of the other, however.

Mukhl`s

J_

Urstruly

Thankyou

Yasser Hamdani

kRASHID

where does SB say what you said he did?

Excuse me?

Yasser Hamdani

Krashid

You are right ... you would probably want to make a fundoo out of Jinnah ... even when Jinnah clearly refused to take the title of Maulana ...

How long are you going to downplay the role of that one eventful November Morning of 1932 when in Hampstead, Jinnah had bought Ataturk`s Biography and engrossed himself in it for two days ... emerging out of it as a rejuvenated man.. finally ready to lead his people to their ultimate destination.. and to become their father of the nation just like Ataturk????????

Maybe Hector Bolitho`s book will shed more light on it ... now if you want to say that Jinnah was different than Ataturk .. yes he was... he was M A Jinnah and in my humble opinion, his is a greater position than Ataturk ... but the two men were essentially similar in thinking ... and this analysis is not mine by but of a lot of Historians and Political Scientists ... as a matter of fact it was the study of Jinnah that made me interested in the study of Ataturk ....

Now let us return to the topic....

I urge every wellwisher of mine particularly Rsaxena not to attack me ... I am sorry I brought Gandhi up .. I apologize... Thankyou

PLEASE ATTEND!

2ND PALESTINE RALLY AT BROWERS COMMONS RUTGERS UNIVERSITY NEW BRUNSWICK NJ 08901

THIS WEDNESDAY 12-3 .....

Yours truly will be speaking ...

Yasser Hamdani

RE: Syed Ahmad

You wrote:

``- but then again moral courage is not our collective strength either, political expediency is.``

I agree.

Because you conveniently forgot the Death Squads of Mukti Bahni whose hands are red with the genocide of 500,000+ West Pakistanis, Biharis, Pro-Pakistani Bengalis and Bengali Hindus. The later were systematically eliminated by them, in the guise of Pak Army, to acquire funds for the ``movement`` and to win symapathies of the Hindus from accross the border.

Not to mention the ``Bihari Camps``; something sounds and look synonymous to the Palestinian Refugee Camps within Israel (Palestine) their own home.

Hi all,

sorry for this distraction. i`m new to InterAct!. a few months ago, on a boring day, i was running a search on indo-pak friendship (oh no, i am not

a peacenik) which landed me on one of Bina Sarwar`s article, of borders and bridges or something like that. i liked that discussion and since then i`ve been reading the postings and i like this place for its relative civility.

PS:

it would be nice to know most of you, but i must admit that i am a fan of two: Jay and RSaxena

PPS What I said is quite clear from the post. Please read completely.

Once again before I go to bed, My personal appeal goes out to Indians not to take offense to my post because I was merely demonstrating how bad Udaykumar`s article was and how faulty is criteria for an ariel Moron ... that even a saint like Gandhi jee would fit in it ...

Yasser Hamdani

PS Let us talk about Palestine ... I apologize to those offended.. you obviously misunderstood...