Defend the Country, not its Government

The article raises an important question and in the realm of international relations, a country is often considered as a personification of its government. In that sense, the government of Pakistan, inter alia, represents the people of Pakistan and when it lies, the blame rests with the people, and not the government, because they should be able to hold their governments accountable for its actions.

What happens when the governments are not beholden to the people it represents?

A better question would be not that the governments lie and why they lie, but are the people, in toto, guilty of the lie too? In law, silence denotes consent and if that is true, then who is the kettle and who is the pot?

Lies are inheirent to politics and the obligation and the onus of detecting a lie rests upon the wisdom of a well informed citizen to separte the lie from the falsehood and deduce the truth as a compromise between the two extermes mentioned above. If the people are not well informed, then where is the government`s mea culpa in the matter?

The problem in Pakistan is not that we do not know a lie; we do, but the tragedy is that, instead of exposing it, we chose to believe in it! In this case the governments are exploiting us, because we are willing to be exploited and thus, there is no point in playing an aggrieved victim here since we are the ones who encourage this charade by being tolerant of it!

Are we going to change; can we change; should we change to stop this practice from ruining us would have been a more apt question!

Ciao!

Dear Author,

Your point makes sense if one takes it as a hypothetical scenario. But since you have given an example of Kargil, it makes it a non-hypothetical real world scenario.

People of Pakistan fully understand why GOP denied its direct involvement in the Kargil affiar initially; that they view in term of the international relations- and understand Pakistan`s position in this regard.

Beside the fact that the GOP took a different ``political stance`` on the issue-support for the whole affair was at grass-root level. I dont think the Pakistani Nation is in any moral delima over this issue. The plight of Kashmiris and the genocide level attrocities that they are facing from Indian Army overrides the morality of the issue that you are pointing out.

By the way, I would say that it was a carefully timed article. All readers should view it in the recent change of strategy of GOI in its anti-Pakistan campaign in the international media.

INDIAN STRATEGY

The Indian media campaign so far had been overtly concentrated on ``Bad -Pakistan`` as its target. But as you can see in this article how writer has poited out a difference between ``a country`` as an ``inanimate land mass`` and a Government that is (un)representative of the people.

Now they have shifted their focus to ``Bad-Government of Pakistan`` (in last two weeks). I would say a smart move but Paki strategists are ready-dont worry.

I would request all Pakistani readers to be beware of this new plan of the Lotus Eaters.

Pakistan - has always been ruled by a trioka of generals, beaucrats and feudals. Pakistan never had the institutions or the democratic tradition to sustain popular democracy. This is a fact that
has been well established and published - time and time again. The politics in Pakistan is based on the ethnicity and the socio-economic status of those who control these three interest groups. Over the past 50 years, the composition of those in power in these three interest groups has invariably changed both in terms of ethnicity and
socio-economic outlook.

Consequently the national character is essentially tribal and neanderthal with each group vying to take a piece of the pie at the expense of the other group. As a result, the mindset does not exist - that would enable them to collective their resources to grow the pie.

The citizen - or the plebian is at the mercy of his patrician overlords, - over the centuries they were the mughals, - the British and now the current managerie.

Interestingly though, the path to power as defined in these times in Pakistan has been through the aforementioned groups, nor has it been restricted to a select few. The composition of both the army, the beaurcracy as well as the feudal classes has changed dramatically of the past 50 years, -social and economic mobility exists in Pakistan only through these conduits.

Consequently Pakistan will be stuck in its present quagmire ad infinitum, the current Attaurk and his cotiere of bonapartists have clear options
of
- reduction in defense spenmding to boost social spending.... -

- land reform/ taxation on rural holdings and income

- Decentraization and divestment of authority and power.

But since all of the above infringes on the interests of one of the power groups, - the people in power are not about to undercut their own constituencies, which in many instances straddle one or more of the aforementioned groups.


Consequently people as a viable entity cease to exist, - the few in the intelligensia who dare to fight for this miserable lot, are ostracised as heretics, communists, or national saboteurs, - or the sane ones migrate overseas to better their lot to and get premium views to the ongoing circus....

A very interesting read indeed.

But disagreeing a wee bit, i would say that we cannot absolve ourselves of all the blame. We don`t expect to handle out our cases on a one to one basis. As a collective identity, we must have a government, which can encompass all our ambitions and intentions and present it as a single entity. If the Government doesn`t put forth our aspirations then it has no business being there, and if it still is, then it is our fault or worse still (wrt to the points mentioned in the article), the government`s view is our`s too.

Overall, an intersting viewpoint. And since subcontinental(irony!!) is a pakistani, it is a very candid admission. Not that the truth is hidden to anybody.

But I see a cyber Kargil here...

Boom..Boom...

Pullu

I would have applauded this article IF the author had been focussed on the principle of not separating government policy from the people of a given country. The author chose, rather, to focus on this principle as applied to the Pakistani government, with the Indian government presumably being morally perfect and fully in tune with the long-term interests of it`s people.

The article is a step forward from the usual India-Pakistan mud-slinging by some people on the internet, but remains fundamentally one-sided. I would urge the author to reflect upon his/her preconceived notions, and hope that one day he/she will write a more balanced article.

Conversations: `Pakistan Supports the Kashmir Struggle Diplomatically, Politically, Morally`

Web-only interview with Pakistan`s High Commissioner in New Delhi Ashraf Jehangir Qazi

By MASEEH RAHMAN

October 10, 2000

Web posted at 11:00 a.m. Hong Kong time, 11:00 Ashraf Jehangir Qazi has been Pakistan`s High Commissioner in New Delhi for more than three years. Relations between both countries during that time have been shaky, to say the least. Qazi spoke to TIME contributor Maseeh Rahman in New Delhi recently. Edited excerpts:



TIME: India is not willing to engage in talks with Pakistan at the moment as it feels Islamabad betrayed the trust that was built up at the Lahore Summit last year by sending armed intruders into Kargil. New Delhi feels that talks cannot begin until Islamabad acknowledges that it committed a wrong. Your view?

Qazi: This is a self-serving argument, which has no basis in fact. If you have problems with someone, you discuss them. If you have serious reservations about the policies of another country, you can always take it up in talks. You can`t make the resolution of your concerns the precondition for talks, because the end result of that would be no talks. As far as trust is concerned, that has to emerge from an engagement with each other. Our perception of the Kargil crisis is totally different [from India`s]. But the crisis did take place within the context of the enduring Kashmir dispute. And if that is not addressed, then the question of trust emerging between the two countries doesn`t even arise.

TIME: New Delhi sees General Pervez Musharraf as being mainly responsible for the Kargil intrusions. New Delhi also believes it is difficult to talk to a general who has overthrown a democratically elected government.

Qazi: What matters is how the people of Pakistan view General Musharraf. They understand the circumstances under which he emerged as chief executive. They`ve endorsed the domestic agenda of his government. They`ve taken note of the fact that the Supreme Court has validated the regime, and that now there is a timetable for a return to democracy. Once the people of Pakistan are satisfied, it is not for any external power to say they can or cannot engage [in talks] with the government.



TIME: Is it unreasonable for New Delhi to tell Islamabad, `Stop the armed incursions into Kashmir, then we can talk?`

Qazi: First, the allegations are inaccurate and baseless. Secondly, Pakistan has proposed to expand and make more effective the United Nations observer group [in Kashmir] so that they can check the veracity of these allegations. Thirdly, so far as there`s an armed insurrection in Indian-administered Kashmir, it is the result of the unspeakable human and political rights situation there. Pakistan supports the struggle diplomatically, politically, morally. We are a recognized party to the dispute and are entitled to oppose by all lawful means the illegal suppression by force of a legitimate freedom struggle.

TIME: But now even Pakistani journalists are reporting how the ISI [Inter- Services Intelligence, Pakistan`s military intelligence agency] is arming and assisting the insurgents to cross the Line of Control (LOC) in Kashmir. Isn`t Washington also asking Pakistan to stop assisting the insurgents materially?

Qazi: These stories are highly motivated, highly distorted, exaggerated, and largely false. To the extent that there is any crossing of the LOC, it is impossible for Pakistan to seal it off. Pakistan is not assisting them. If there`s an allegation to that effect, then Pakistan is proposing that the United Nations observer group or any international group with credibility should verify these charges. Moreover, these charges are meant to distract attention from the problem, which is the suppression of the Kashmiri people against their will.

TIME: Both General Musharraf and Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee were in the U.S. recently. Is there any hope that the U.S. might be able to assist the two countries with their dispute?

Qazi: We`re open to any possibility. We`re ready for dialogue, as our chief executive has said, at any time, any place, anywhere. We recognize that India and Pakistan have seldom shown the capability of resolving their own problems. Whenever there`s been any progress, it has been because of a friendly country. And we feel the U.S., or any other country which has good relations with both India and Pakistan, has a role to play. In this shrinking world, taking note of the developments in the subcontinent, including the fact that we`ve gone nuclear, these countries have a right to feel concerned. If they can bring about a sincere, substantive, meaningful, result-oriented dialogue between India and Pakistan on all issues, particularly the central issue of Jammu and Kashmir, that`s great.

TIME: Did the U.S. play a role in the move recently to have talks between New Delhi and the Kashmiri insurgent group the Hizbul Mujahedin?

Qazi: I`ve no knowledge of any U.S. role. It seems to have been an entirely Kashmiri initiative. We saw it as such and said it represented a window of opportunity, and that India needed to build upon it. Unfortunately, India responded in a manner as if it saw an opportunity for the elimination of a major element of the freedom struggle, the Hizbul Mujahedin itself. India was simply not willing to take part in genuine dialogue, and sought to bring about a laying down of arms by the Hizbul Mujahedin. That led to the collapse of the initiative.

TIME: Selig Harrison [an American expert on South Asia] wrote recently that five Pakistan Army generals, who were close to Islamic fundamentalist groups, sabotaged the latest peace initiative in Kashmir.

Qazi: Very few people in Pakistan share Selig Harrison`s views. I don`t think we need attach much significance to him, especially when he talks about internal developments in Pakistan about which he has no proper information. The fact of the matter is that Pakistan had nothing to do with the initiative for the talks, or with its end.

TIME: Is the warming Indo-U.S. relationship affecting Pakistan`s own interests in the region?

Qazi: We do not see Indo-U.S. relations in a zero-sum context. Today, India is moving into a new and good phase in its bilateral relations with the U.S. Pakistan does not see this as impinging negatively on its own relations with the U.S. On the contrary, to the extent that the U.S. has more influence with New Delhi, we feel that influence can be utilized usefully in the interests of peace and stability in the region. Pakistan has a long-standing relationship with the U.S., which is not to say we don`t have our differences. Even today we recognize -- as the Americans say -- that it`s not business as usual with Pakistan because of the temporary departure from constitutional democratic norms. But the Americans have been very understanding of the people`s reaction to the situation, and have been willing to extend support to the government to return Pakistan to participatory, sustainable, and stable democracy. Although our present relations with the U.S. are less than completely normal, and India`s relations improving, that contrast can give the illusion of a shift. But we see no shift, because on fundamental issues, particularly with regard to the root cause of the tension between India and Pakistan, there is no change in the situation.

TIME: Does Pakistan remain a strategic ally for the U.S.?

Qazi: We continue to be in a strategically important location, appreciated by many countries including the U.S. We are satisfied with our relationship with the U.S., which may not be problem-free, but is nonetheless a healthy relationship. We both understand each other. We are in no way disturbed by the improving quality of Indo-U.S. relations.

TIME: Washington was hopeful that Pakistan would be able to influence the Taliban on the Osama bin Laden [the Saudi terrorist wanted by the U.S.] issue. But even a year after coming to power, General Musharraf has not been able to visit Afghanistan. What`s the problem?

Qazi: There`s no problem. We don`t pretend to exercise disproportionate or undue influence in any neighboring country, including Afghanistan. We recognize certain realities in Afghanistan -- the Taliban are in control of 98% of the country. We urge the U.S. and other nations to engage with the government in Afghanistan. We don`t necessarily agree with their interpretation of Islam, [but] we engage with them, and convey the concerns of other countries. The Taliban do not regard themselves as extremists or a destabilizing force [in the region].

TIME: So you`re not concerned about the export of Islamic extremism from Afghanistan?

Qazi: We do not believe the charge against the Taliban that they`re exporting any kind of extremism from Afghanistan. The Taliban are totally concerned with consolidating and stabilizing their governance and reviving the Afghan economy. They have no time to concern themselves with matters beyond Afghanistan.

TIME: Would you say that Russian and Chinese fears in this regard are misplaced?

Qazi: We simply believe the Taliban are not engaged in destabilizing any other country.

The claim is being made that India has shifted its focus from ``bad country`` to ``bad government`` in its propaganda on Pakistan in the last two weeks.

If true, I wonder if the spectacle of the Serbian elections and its aftermath are inspiring this. In that regard, the theme of people versus govt. is echoed at :

SAVING PAKISTAN FROM ITS `SAVIOURS`

http://www.saag.org/papers2/paper151.html

Or does it have to do with the anniversary of the military coup in Pakistan ?

But, is it true ?

-arun gupta

I agree with the author to a very large extent. We are certainly kept in the dark as far as a lot of issues are concerned and the worst part is, we have stopped questioning anything that any government does...what right did Musharraf have to just take over? Did we question him? No, we danced in the streets! We WANT to be left in the dark for some reason, we want to believe that all things `bad` about Pakistan are the Indian media`s strategy...I am a Pakistani and I for one feel that it`s high time we start looking within ourselves instead of blaming everything on India...granted they`re no saints and I have no sympathies for them, but we ought to take responsiblity for our own actions.

Urstruly, I don`t understand how you can actually say that the people of Pakistan UNDERSTAND what the GOP did in Kargil!

*People of Pakistan fully understand why GOP denied its direct involvement in the Kargil affiar initially; that they view in term of the international relations- and understand Pakistan`s position in this regard. *

Please don`t use this excuse that it was all in the interest of the nation and the people...don`t underestimate the intelligence of the people of Paksitan..we all know what happened in Kargil!

A good article. Sometimes governments lie to the world to protect their causes. A few weeks back the NY times had a special on how the American CIA was responsible for terrorist attacks in Iran to install the Shah government. Most people are not aware of what their governments are upto. I doubt Indians are aware of the innocents killed in Pakistan by RAW agents to destabilize the situation and pit one group against the other. Either way, whether lying or deceitfulness to further one`s political or national cause is wrong is beyond the scope of this discussion.

But I`m happy that Pakistan did not lie to its people and awarded medals and land to honour the people who played a role in the Kargil humiliation of the Indian forces.

Subcontinental: It is naive to think that they did this whole secret operation and mistakenly blew their cover by giving these awards. Hell no, the government and the people recognized the valor of these men and decided to honour them no matter what !

Peace :)

URstruely,

Post#2

{{I dont think the Pakistani Nation is in any moral delima over this issue. The plight of Kashmiris and the genocide level attrocities that they are facing from Indian Army overrides the morality of the issue that you are pointing out.}}

I guess its opinions like this that makes the BJP right. The GOI made a good faith effort to start talking to the GOP during the Lahore summit. What youre saying is--so what? we will send our army into Indian occupied Kashmir anyway, because we are on a moral highground. No wonder the GOI says that Pakistan is nothing but a backstabbing nation & the offers to have ``talks anywhere, anytime`` or a ``no war pact`` is just a lot of bullshit. If Pakistanis have no moral problem with the Kargil backstabbing, then the Indians are absolutely right in not having anything to do with them.

So stand on your moral highhorse, if it makes you feel better. Not just India, but the entire world doesnt believe you.

INDIAN STRATEGY PART 2

Further to my post # 2 & 3

One may ask a question that what is difference between “Bad-Pakistan theme” and “Bad-GOP theme”. Lets analyze both:

1. The Bad-Pakistan theme.
The focus of Indian anti-Pakistan campaign under this theme was not concentrated. Under this strategy Pakistan was portrayed as a multi-headed monster where different heads of this monster represented different “ugly” aspects of Pakistan-Jihad, corruption, rogue army, Talibanisation, terrorism, drugs, madrassahs, terrorist-training schools, Lashkars, cross-border terrorism-and what not, just name it. Initially it worked well but then it became so outrageous that it started defying most laws of common sense and logic. All those lines started sounding like a beaten record so it resulted in the change of strategy.

2. The Bad-GOP theme.
This strategy has two advantages over the former one:

a) The attention of the audience can be focused on one bad aspect, which is the cause of all other notorious things attached to Pakistan. This new monster has only one faces and it is easily identifiable i.e. guys in the uniform. There is one disadvantage with this strategy that since audience is now more concentrated and less confused then they might question the integrity of some of the allegation in the propaganda campaign. In order to counter this disadvantage (b) can be employed.

b) Since bogeyman is identified as the one in the uniform it will provide a kind of vehicle or a catalyst to mobilize the anti-government (anti-martial law) elements from with in Pakistan. The recent visit of MQM to India should be looked into with this perspective. I am anticipating a wave of ethnic and religious violence in coming weeks that will activate this catalyst.

I must say that the new strategy is good and feasible. Let’s see how GOP counters this offence.

RE: Shankar

There are no moral high horses here. As a matter of fact Pakistan finds itself on the same crossroads where India was standing exactly 30 years ago-Pakistani Army was killing its own people, India had to intervene to stop the genocide, then there was a no war pact called Tashkent Pact-remember that? Mr. Shankar we draw our moral strength from India. Thank you very much.

RE: Sobia

I don’t want to sound rude or anything and I admit that your questions are valid. But ain’t this the same argument we have been repeating for the past two years. The issue at hand is different. Times have changed.

RE: MacGupta

You can address me directly. I don’t bite ;)

May be we should try to accomodate different points of view. And try to see things beyond conspiracy also.

If we had good previous Governments, may be this line of maligning the army will pay. But what next? Get rid of army, then what? If this question is answered, I will accept the article on face value.

But our tormentor also is army. And has never let the leadership come out for of and by the people.

Minimum We can do in current situation, is to not fight for any particular political party or group, but the principle that whenever any form of election are held, they should be held on party basis. (Including devolution of power).

If our ruling elite don`t want to progress, at least let the people progress on their own. People have more intelligence, endurance and good sense to do so.

I highly doubt the sincerity of our ruling elite (if not Musharraf) in the exercise of local elections.

Urstruly #12

Indian ``strategies`` vs innocent hapless Pakistanis

1. Bad Pakistan theme
Are ``Talibanisation, terrorism, drugs, madrassahs, terrorist-training schools, Lashkars,`` products of Indian media strategies, figments of imagination?
If not, why must Indians embrace these aspects of Pakistani `identity` with wholehearted acceptance? Do Pakistanis themselves embrace these aspects of Pakistani `identity` with wholehearted acceptance?

2. The Bad-GOP theme
``one bad aspect, which is the cause of all other notorious things attached to Pakistan. This new monster has only one faces and it is easily identifiable i.e. guys in the uniform. ``

Tough not to identify after 25+ years in the saddle. Again, why must Indians wholeheartedly embrace the Pakistani Army when it is in power? Do Pakistanis wholeheartedly embrace the Pakistani Army when it is in power?

Love me, love my fanatics who have it in for you. Love me love my dictators who also have it in for you. Poor innocent and hapless Pakistanis battling Indian media strategists.


Even discussing whether to assume responsibility for one`s government`s actions past and present is a very distant goal here. It would be a commendable achievement just to allow the responsibility for almost everything to be shifted off the hated neighbour on to one`s own government or onto anything within the boundaries of one own country for starters.

Sadhana

a) when a country is based, rooted in a lie `two nation theory` how can truth take roots?

b) Kargil humiliation of India :-)

NS went to the jail, Mushy had a frown on the face ( the famous BBC interview we only did aggressive patrolling, everyone was on board!!!) , NLI gets disbanded, pakistani soldiers bodies rotting and nobody to claim them!!!, Pakistanis could not get to say Kargil and yet India is humiliated!!!

Thanks for humiliating us so often 47 ,65 ,71 , Siachen, Kargil ..... :-)

In response to krashid (Reply # 15)

Dear Rashid:

Your statement: ``I highly doubt the sincerity of our ruling elite (if not Musharraf) in the exercise of local elections.``

Comment: Rashid, your statement provides little information. You need to inform your readers clearly what you mean by the ruling elite in this particular statement. Do you mean the army, ISI, bureaucracy, election commission, police, politial parties, local and regional bourgeosie, intelligentia, or what?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad