Desi Olympics 2000
Ras Siddiqui October 12, 2000
#28 Posted by ahmadb on October 14, 2000 2:46:56 pm
In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 23)
Dear Fairdinkum:
I indeed was thinking about the success of athletes from many small and poor countries around the world. I am also appreciative of the fact that money and resources are a key to success in present-day Olympics. But, if money is the only major determining factor than athletes from some Arab countries must out-perform from most other countries.
Pakistani society has no dearth of able bodied kids, at least from the middle-class families (but not restricted to this class only), who could be trained well with minimum expense to compete in sports. We, unfortunately, look too much toward the state which lacks the capacity to deliver as well as possess the capacity to directly or indirectly (yet often unintendedly) curb the initiative. Freedom, not money, is a prerequisite to initiative and self-reliance. And, I am talking about the freedom of minds, bodies, and spirits but not of the kind we received on August 14, 1947.
I encourage the Pakistanis (and other nations in a similar state) to look into the processes involved in the creation of a culture of TV and sycophancy (a la Sameer) and my persistent reference to the social relations of state, civil society, and economy. Pakistanis often successfully accomplish what they want to do, and at the moment they don’t seem to care about the health of their minds, bodies and spirits. There is a denial and a negativity built in our society which is a product of bad governments and their policies. A good and healthy society needs a sense of direction, a positive attitude, creativity, and a desire to reach certain goals.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
Dear Fairdinkum:
I indeed was thinking about the success of athletes from many small and poor countries around the world. I am also appreciative of the fact that money and resources are a key to success in present-day Olympics. But, if money is the only major determining factor than athletes from some Arab countries must out-perform from most other countries.
Pakistani society has no dearth of able bodied kids, at least from the middle-class families (but not restricted to this class only), who could be trained well with minimum expense to compete in sports. We, unfortunately, look too much toward the state which lacks the capacity to deliver as well as possess the capacity to directly or indirectly (yet often unintendedly) curb the initiative. Freedom, not money, is a prerequisite to initiative and self-reliance. And, I am talking about the freedom of minds, bodies, and spirits but not of the kind we received on August 14, 1947.
I encourage the Pakistanis (and other nations in a similar state) to look into the processes involved in the creation of a culture of TV and sycophancy (a la Sameer) and my persistent reference to the social relations of state, civil society, and economy. Pakistanis often successfully accomplish what they want to do, and at the moment they don’t seem to care about the health of their minds, bodies and spirits. There is a denial and a negativity built in our society which is a product of bad governments and their policies. A good and healthy society needs a sense of direction, a positive attitude, creativity, and a desire to reach certain goals.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
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#27 Posted by tahmed321 on October 14, 2000 1:47:18 pm
Lubna #24 Jay wouldnt qualify - despite temporal`s kind reminders, Jay refuses to take his pills on time.
#26 Posted by jay on October 14, 2000 11:23:38 am
TRAINING LONG DISTANCE RUNNERS,
There is some evidence that pakistan has taken the Ras article seriously and has started training long distance runners. From nation of today,
Beggars flee to rural areas to avoid arrest
KARACHI-Hundreds of beggars have gone to rural areas of Malir to evade arrest during the anti-beggary campaign. The City`s main roundabouts stand free of beggars. The on-going anti-beggary campaign has showed a positive result and many parts of the City comprising Districts South and East have also been cleared of beggars. The IG Police recently launched an anti-beggar drive during which a few hundreds beggars have been picked up. However, IGP Sindh Aftab Nabi has directed all the police officials that no leniency should be there.
In order to escape arrest, hundreds of beggars have escaped to Razakabad, Gulshan-e-Hadeed, Pipri, Memon Goth, Gadap and other adjoining areas. These beggars have started begging in the villages. The villagers are pestered to such an extent that they visited the Malir Press Club and urged the administration to extend the anti-beggary drive to the rural areas.
In the past, the beggars were mostly Kolis, Bheels, Meghwars, Marwaris. Now women from the belt known as Ryasti, Baloch and Pathan women have also started begging.
///There could be some surviving beggers who has gone from city to village and back to the city several times over, being chased by the police and could be an ideal candidate for marathon. It is quite possible that the runners from the dectatorial africa are selected by this process. In a democratic india it is hard to do, like in kerala thare was a union of beggers, headed by a member of the legislature.
There are pakistanis with some good ideas, chowk should be treated as an exception, and they are implementing policies adapted from other dictators, while the chowk pakistanis dream of the US style democracy, and finding it hard to answer children`s questions, like what does kafir mean.
There is some evidence that pakistan has taken the Ras article seriously and has started training long distance runners. From nation of today,
Beggars flee to rural areas to avoid arrest
KARACHI-Hundreds of beggars have gone to rural areas of Malir to evade arrest during the anti-beggary campaign. The City`s main roundabouts stand free of beggars. The on-going anti-beggary campaign has showed a positive result and many parts of the City comprising Districts South and East have also been cleared of beggars. The IG Police recently launched an anti-beggar drive during which a few hundreds beggars have been picked up. However, IGP Sindh Aftab Nabi has directed all the police officials that no leniency should be there.
In order to escape arrest, hundreds of beggars have escaped to Razakabad, Gulshan-e-Hadeed, Pipri, Memon Goth, Gadap and other adjoining areas. These beggars have started begging in the villages. The villagers are pestered to such an extent that they visited the Malir Press Club and urged the administration to extend the anti-beggary drive to the rural areas.
In the past, the beggars were mostly Kolis, Bheels, Meghwars, Marwaris. Now women from the belt known as Ryasti, Baloch and Pathan women have also started begging.
///There could be some surviving beggers who has gone from city to village and back to the city several times over, being chased by the police and could be an ideal candidate for marathon. It is quite possible that the runners from the dectatorial africa are selected by this process. In a democratic india it is hard to do, like in kerala thare was a union of beggers, headed by a member of the legislature.
There are pakistanis with some good ideas, chowk should be treated as an exception, and they are implementing policies adapted from other dictators, while the chowk pakistanis dream of the US style democracy, and finding it hard to answer children`s questions, like what does kafir mean.
#25 Posted by jay on October 14, 2000 11:23:38 am
A DISTANT LAND,
Ras,
``My only reaction to that is a somewhat remote sourness did surface when my American born daughter asked what sports Pakistan played and when they were going to be on local television?``
Take it easy Ras, tell your daughter to watch television news of today, Pakistan is one of the countries where the US embassy is closed down for a week. Take a good old book from pakistan, before k for kafir add, j for jihad, show the images from 60 minutes, children rocking like automatam, being trained to respond like pavlovian dogs. Education has value what ever that might be, even if it is about pakistan.
Ras,
``My only reaction to that is a somewhat remote sourness did surface when my American born daughter asked what sports Pakistan played and when they were going to be on local television?``
Take it easy Ras, tell your daughter to watch television news of today, Pakistan is one of the countries where the US embassy is closed down for a week. Take a good old book from pakistan, before k for kafir add, j for jihad, show the images from 60 minutes, children rocking like automatam, being trained to respond like pavlovian dogs. Education has value what ever that might be, even if it is about pakistan.
#24 Posted by lubna on October 14, 2000 11:23:38 am
t, tahmed:
[[[..... Ach-thu: ]
----Thanks for reminding me. Almost forgot. With or without chewing tobacco (naswaar.) On a dart board, from fifteen feet, scored out of best of five, with maximum ‘re-thoocking’ time of 60 seconds between each attempt. Winner to face that Thackeray clone on Chowk.]]
I`m sure we can find individuals here at Chowk who`d be more than happy to participate in this one. And would be eager to win the competition too with such an attractive reward. I for one wouldn`t mind facing that Jay guy as long as someone else does the thoocking for me. And as long as Jay`s not too big. He seems to be preparing himself well though - already salivating.
(scout - he validated your statement :()
Oh he makes me sick!
[[[..... Ach-thu: ]
----Thanks for reminding me. Almost forgot. With or without chewing tobacco (naswaar.) On a dart board, from fifteen feet, scored out of best of five, with maximum ‘re-thoocking’ time of 60 seconds between each attempt. Winner to face that Thackeray clone on Chowk.]]
I`m sure we can find individuals here at Chowk who`d be more than happy to participate in this one. And would be eager to win the competition too with such an attractive reward. I for one wouldn`t mind facing that Jay guy as long as someone else does the thoocking for me. And as long as Jay`s not too big. He seems to be preparing himself well though - already salivating.
(scout - he validated your statement :()
Oh he makes me sick!
#23 Posted by fairdinkum on October 14, 2000 5:08:53 am
ahmadb #19
hmm, ok, granted that some events, such as long distance running, may not require huge amounts of money for training/coaching etc. purposes….. As for the absence of sports culture, well, there may be a correlation between abject poverty and lack of sports culture. Schools do not have enough funds to have a chair and desk for every student, let alone provide students with sports facilities…. Also, there is this belief amongst most middle to lower middle class families that the only way to success for their kids is through education, and sports is generally viewed as an impediment to this.
And just to confuse things a bit more, success of African nations in long distance running is linked to lack of transport in rural areas of East Africa, where people usually travel from one village to another, often miles away, on foot …so, here is a correlation between poverty and long distance running :)
SameerJB:
If only they knew that once they become Olympic champs/world camps, they can literally buy PTV, and Prime Mister House in a year…:)
hmm, ok, granted that some events, such as long distance running, may not require huge amounts of money for training/coaching etc. purposes….. As for the absence of sports culture, well, there may be a correlation between abject poverty and lack of sports culture. Schools do not have enough funds to have a chair and desk for every student, let alone provide students with sports facilities…. Also, there is this belief amongst most middle to lower middle class families that the only way to success for their kids is through education, and sports is generally viewed as an impediment to this.
And just to confuse things a bit more, success of African nations in long distance running is linked to lack of transport in rural areas of East Africa, where people usually travel from one village to another, often miles away, on foot …so, here is a correlation between poverty and long distance running :)
SameerJB:
If only they knew that once they become Olympic champs/world camps, they can literally buy PTV, and Prime Mister House in a year…:)
#22 Posted by tahmed321 on October 14, 2000 12:54:32 am
(On a more serious note), I agree that it is more than just money. Otherwise why would the East African win marathons? Indeed, Pakistan was somewhat better at one time: In the early sixties, we had at least three medal-winning olympians. These were Raziq (hurdles), Ramzan (long jump) and Khaliq (marathon, I think). In Pakistan this lack of progress may reflect a reduced emphasis on character building and good sportsmanship. As some British peer said, battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton. We could have put up a better show, I am sure, if our education system had not suffered, and a certain amount of demoralization and cynicism not set in in the country, under a series of rats who came to power over the past 3 decades.
P.S. I am not including India in the above discussion since (a) I dont know enough, and (b) am assured from certain posts on chowk on the complete perfection of everything in India. P.P.S. b) above is a joke, and not meant to offend our friends from across the border.
P.S. I am not including India in the above discussion since (a) I dont know enough, and (b) am assured from certain posts on chowk on the complete perfection of everything in India. P.P.S. b) above is a joke, and not meant to offend our friends from across the border.
#21 Posted by rsaxena on October 14, 2000 12:54:32 am
Re: scout #8
You hit it on the nail :)
Sewage systems, plumbing systems, uninterrupted power supply, telephones for all, and a hospitable in every village. Until South Asia can provide that for all its people, we will continue to be viewed as medieval people who haven`t learned how to govern themselves and manage their resources.
Only then can we think about winning Olympic medals.
You hit it on the nail :)
Sewage systems, plumbing systems, uninterrupted power supply, telephones for all, and a hospitable in every village. Until South Asia can provide that for all its people, we will continue to be viewed as medieval people who haven`t learned how to govern themselves and manage their resources.
Only then can we think about winning Olympic medals.
#20 Posted by ahmadb on October 13, 2000 8:48:07 pm
In response to Fairdinkum (Reply # 14)
Dear Fairdinkum:
Your statement: ``Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to compare India/Pakistan to these giants (in terms of resources, not population)? Forget about billions, how many millions of dollars are spent on training, coaching, providing world-class facilities etc. to the athletes from the Subcontinent?``
Comment: On the whole, I agree with your argument. However, there are many areas of the Olympic sports which really do not require much money--such as long-distance running. I think, it is the absence of sports culture that may be the main source of our lack of participation. I think, this is what Sameer has also tried to point out in his funny/witty commentry.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
Dear Fairdinkum:
Your statement: ``Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to compare India/Pakistan to these giants (in terms of resources, not population)? Forget about billions, how many millions of dollars are spent on training, coaching, providing world-class facilities etc. to the athletes from the Subcontinent?``
Comment: On the whole, I agree with your argument. However, there are many areas of the Olympic sports which really do not require much money--such as long-distance running. I think, it is the absence of sports culture that may be the main source of our lack of participation. I think, this is what Sameer has also tried to point out in his funny/witty commentry.
Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad
#19 Posted by SameerJB on October 13, 2000 7:08:24 pm
temporal, tahmed: Many Pakistani could have won 5000, 10000 meters and longer races-only if they had large visible pictures of PTV Station or Prime Minister House at the finish line, clearly visible from the starting line.
It takes extensive training in most field to achieve top position, not only in sports but in every aspect of life. We people belong to ``shugal`` culture believing more in destiny and fate than self confidence-irrespective of labelled as either avian or bovine species (tilyars or dhaggas).
It takes extensive training in most field to achieve top position, not only in sports but in every aspect of life. We people belong to ``shugal`` culture believing more in destiny and fate than self confidence-irrespective of labelled as either avian or bovine species (tilyars or dhaggas).
#18 Posted by concerned on October 13, 2000 2:19:38 pm
temporal:
[--- prophetically spoken, such is fate :)]
the moving finger writes...
[--- prophetically spoken, such is fate :)]
the moving finger writes...
#17 Posted by temporal on October 13, 2000 1:48:51 pm
concerned 16:
[Thanks for the welcome. I am sure a song would be forthcoming to reduce me to smithereens! Can’t wait for it.]
--- prophetically spoken, such is fate :)
and from #3:
[..why the preferential treatment, sir? no critical review of the article from `english` p.o.v. :-)]
---take your pick:
(a) This is not a literary piece.
(b) This is not a first appearance.
(c) Author is beyond hope or redemption
(d) It is a perfect article.
(e) Have done it exhaustively in the past.
(f) Have started charging for services (sort of WordGigolo with a motto ‘pleasure not guaranteed’)
(g) Am sober.
(h) It is Friday!
tahmed321 #7:
[..... 100 meters freestyle: The one who reaches the airport ticket counter first, having broken through the line and pushed aside weaker opponents, wins. Those pushing aside women with children get special mention....]
----In addition to the gold medal the winner gets to test his/her mettle against the giant Sudanese in a free for all to kiss Hajra-e-Aswad the black stone at Kaaba in the last ten days of Ramadaan.
[..... Ach-thu: ]
----Thanks for reminding me. Almost forgot. With or without chewing tobacco (naswaar.) On a dart board, from fifteen feet, scored out of best of five, with maximum ‘re-thoocking’ time of 60 seconds between each attempt. Winner to face that Thackeray clone on Chowk.
regards,
temporal
[Thanks for the welcome. I am sure a song would be forthcoming to reduce me to smithereens! Can’t wait for it.]
--- prophetically spoken, such is fate :)
and from #3:
[..why the preferential treatment, sir? no critical review of the article from `english` p.o.v. :-)]
---take your pick:
(a) This is not a literary piece.
(b) This is not a first appearance.
(c) Author is beyond hope or redemption
(d) It is a perfect article.
(e) Have done it exhaustively in the past.
(f) Have started charging for services (sort of WordGigolo with a motto ‘pleasure not guaranteed’)
(g) Am sober.
(h) It is Friday!
tahmed321 #7:
[..... 100 meters freestyle: The one who reaches the airport ticket counter first, having broken through the line and pushed aside weaker opponents, wins. Those pushing aside women with children get special mention....]
----In addition to the gold medal the winner gets to test his/her mettle against the giant Sudanese in a free for all to kiss Hajra-e-Aswad the black stone at Kaaba in the last ten days of Ramadaan.
[..... Ach-thu: ]
----Thanks for reminding me. Almost forgot. With or without chewing tobacco (naswaar.) On a dart board, from fifteen feet, scored out of best of five, with maximum ‘re-thoocking’ time of 60 seconds between each attempt. Winner to face that Thackeray clone on Chowk.
regards,
temporal
#16 Posted by concerned on October 13, 2000 11:30:30 am
Cheraym,
Hi,
I won`t have bothered to put a reply here, but for ras`s attempts to link sports to politics. On one hand, we hear the pakistanis criticize india about refusing to play cricket with them. `we should keep sports separate from politics` is the argument put forth by them. Then there is an about turn and sports performance is linked to eligibility for unsc, counterweight to china, ability to code/uncode, and everything else on earth.
But for the words `saffron brigade, emerging superpower, claim to unsc, moral support` and such, this article would not get my attention. Is there anything new in this that is not said after every olympic?
Crypto,
Hi,
Thanks for the welcome. I am sure a song would be forthcoming to reduce me to smithereens! Can’t wait for it.
Hi,
I won`t have bothered to put a reply here, but for ras`s attempts to link sports to politics. On one hand, we hear the pakistanis criticize india about refusing to play cricket with them. `we should keep sports separate from politics` is the argument put forth by them. Then there is an about turn and sports performance is linked to eligibility for unsc, counterweight to china, ability to code/uncode, and everything else on earth.
But for the words `saffron brigade, emerging superpower, claim to unsc, moral support` and such, this article would not get my attention. Is there anything new in this that is not said after every olympic?
Crypto,
Hi,
Thanks for the welcome. I am sure a song would be forthcoming to reduce me to smithereens! Can’t wait for it.
#15 Posted by crypto on October 13, 2000 9:46:58 am
concerned #3:
welcome back... so you still can`t resist pelting your favourite `song man`, can you ?
welcome back... so you still can`t resist pelting your favourite `song man`, can you ?
#14 Posted by fairdinkum on October 13, 2000 4:54:29 am
Dear Ras Siddiqui,
Enjoyed the funny aspects of your piece. Well written too!
You forgot to mention that my country (now Australia), a tiny nation of 17 million people, won a massive total of 58 medals (16 Gold, 25 Silver, 17 Bronze) - 4th on the list of medal telly, ahead of all European nations (except Russia) and all Asian nations (except China).
Merely 6 days after the Olympics, when Olympic mania subsided, the council of Australian scientists and researchers condemned the Australian government for spending an estimated 15 billion dollars on sports, and related areas in the last 4 years or so as opposed to a mere 1.6 billion on scientific and other research. For the last three years, the prestigious Australian of the year award has gone to sportsmen.
I have no idea what kind of money is spent on European athletes and US athletes. I suspect billions of dollars… Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to compare India/Pakistan to these giants (in terms of resources, not population)? Forget about billions, how many millions of dollars are spent on training, coaching, providing world-class facilities etc. to the athletes from subcontinent?
I thought, I should set the record straight for the benefit of your American born daughter. I am sure she`d understand :)
Enjoyed the funny aspects of your piece. Well written too!
You forgot to mention that my country (now Australia), a tiny nation of 17 million people, won a massive total of 58 medals (16 Gold, 25 Silver, 17 Bronze) - 4th on the list of medal telly, ahead of all European nations (except Russia) and all Asian nations (except China).
Merely 6 days after the Olympics, when Olympic mania subsided, the council of Australian scientists and researchers condemned the Australian government for spending an estimated 15 billion dollars on sports, and related areas in the last 4 years or so as opposed to a mere 1.6 billion on scientific and other research. For the last three years, the prestigious Australian of the year award has gone to sportsmen.
I have no idea what kind of money is spent on European athletes and US athletes. I suspect billions of dollars… Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to compare India/Pakistan to these giants (in terms of resources, not population)? Forget about billions, how many millions of dollars are spent on training, coaching, providing world-class facilities etc. to the athletes from subcontinent?
I thought, I should set the record straight for the benefit of your American born daughter. I am sure she`d understand :)
#13 Posted by Bina on October 13, 2000 1:38:25 am
Sure, we performed dismally at the Olympics. But I am proud that for the first time in Pakistan`s history, we fielded a woman athlete, Shazia Khan (I think that`s her name), in track and field. Bravo Shazia!!!!
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