Desi Olympics 2000

Ras Siddiqui,

I am responding to your remark on ``(to which India does not even offer ``moral support``)``.

Remember, Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi sent Indian PeaceKeeping Force to Sri Lanka to end the conflict (though it was against Tamils). Because of that Sri Lankan (Tamil) militants later assassinated him. We aren’t training any one and sending them across to fight the Sri Lankan military. In fact we sent our own military to end the conflict in the Island State.

Whereas Pakistan is giving training to terrorists (thru Madarsa Institute of Terrorism, Pak version of MIT, USA) to fight Indian forces in Kashmir. In the name of liberating Kashmiris from India, Pakistani military have killed more innocent Kashmiris and the Indian forces, which are trying to curb militancy. Because of that Kashmir State didn’t develop like other parts of India despite so much money poured into the Indian State of Kashmir.

So Please, Siddiqui don’t even think about criticizing India on that account.

Why Pakistanis have such hatred towards India?

1. Example: In today’s Dawn(respectable(how) newspaper in Pak), Pak news paper the headlines was Tamils kill 25 camp inmates, the fact is 25 Tamil inmates were killed by the Sinhalese mob.

In the land of Jinnah,

From nation of today,

On Sunday, the chief jehadi organisation Harkatul Mujahideen and Maulana Samiul Haq, presently the head of a madrassa which has gained reputation for being a nursery for the Taliban, called upon the managements of all seminaries to include military training in their curriculum as a compulsory subject. The later exhorted the students to keep themselves prepared for the situation about to emerge in the country. ``Immense responsibility is awaiting you. Be ready for the Islamic revolution,`` he is reported to have said. He was quite clear as to how the revolution envisaged by him will take place. ``Democracy is a big hurdle in the way of Islam. We are not subject to the will of the majority.`` All religious extremists irrespective of their minor differences have trained their guns on the NGOs, which are being portrayed as pawns in the hand of foreign countries. A crescendo of hate campaign has been launched against these organizations which could result in whipping up mob frenzy against all types of moderates and dissidents.

Lubna,

What ever you may know about jihad is of no use to any one, you have no clue what so ever about what they talk in the mosques. Try to get in there first.

Watch out, it could be a dis honour. By the way, what have they told you, jihadists reach heaven, how about the honour killed.

Just asking, a theological question.

Very well written specially the bit about the MARTIAL RACES!!They believe they are Gods gift to humanity!!(The so called MARTIAL RACES)in fact they are nothing but a MYTH created by the colonial british rulers who needed loyal natives and they found them in the shape of Martial Races!

Martial Races are MARTIAL only when they have to bully a weaker side or to please their lord and master as they did uin the 1857 uprising against the BRITISH believe me they are nothing but STUFFED DOLL full of SAW DUST!!Whenever they meet their match they turn and run with their tails between their legs.The so called Martial Races are only Martial when the smell blood or money!!

Jay #56:

Oh thank you soooooooo muuuuuuuuch!!! You have NO IDEA how your li`l post has augmented my very, very limited reserves of knowledge about Jihad. I shall be eternally grateful to you for opening my eyes (were closed because I was trying to enjoy myself :() to this... this... horror(?)... The fact that I was already aware of all this doesn`t really matter - what matters is that YOU really care about enriching my knowledge! I feel so lucky! (btw - a promise is a promise - will take you up on the jihad issue as soon as i get the time!)

Lubna,

Knowledge has no bounds, here is one from foreign affairs, cited by mohajir, to enrich your knowledge about jihad,

``When a boy becomes a martyr, thousands of people attend his funeral. Poor families become celebrities. Everyone treats them with more respect after they lose a son, a martyr`s father said. ``And when there is a martyr in the village, it encourages more children to join the jihad. It raises the spirit of the entire village,`` he continued. In poor families with large numbers of children, a mother can assume that some of her children will die of disease if not in war. This apparently makes it easier to donate a son to what she feels is a just and holy cause.

Many of these families receive financial assistance from the militant groups. The Shuhda-e-Islam Foundation, founded in 1995 by Jamaat-e-Islami, claims to have dispensed 13 million rupees to the families of martyrs. It also claims to provide financial support to some 364 families by paying off loans, setting them up in businesses, or helping them with housing. Moreover, the foundation provides emotional and spiritual support by constantly reminding the families that they did the right thing by donating their children to assist their Muslim brethren in Kashmir. Both Lashkar-i-Taiba and Harkat have also established charitable organizations that reward the families of martyrs -- a practice common to gangs in inner-city Los Angeles and terrorist groups such as al Qaeda and Hamas. Although these foundations provide a service to families in need, they also perpetuate a culture of violence.``.

YLH,

At the risk of being quoted adnoseaum by temporal, like my `intelectual origamy` let me say, there was a sport called `paki bashing` played by the english youth in the 1970s. It literally involved bashing the pakistanis, what ever be the reason for selecting them. The subsequent emergence of multiculturalism, this sport has been on the wane. Now with the new technology of the internet, one can indulge in this sport, with out the legal hastles, but may be with the same entertainment value. In this age of the retro fashion, no harm in reviving some of the old sports. It can be enjoyable for all, including the pakistanis, if approahed in the right spirit. With out ball, there can be no soccer, and it is the essential element.

Be proud.

paki bashing for olympics

long live the balls.

YLH for referee

Jay #51:

Jay m`man! Was waiting for you...

``I was waiting for you to chill out...``

--aaw you didn`t have to... gee thanx!

``I donot believe in personal insults.``

-- *snigger * *snort * coming from you, this is toooo fuuunneeeee!!! You mean to say all those attacks on various Pakistanis (you know the names) were not meant to be personal? Come now, surely you can`t be serious?

``I accept your above remark as the ultimate challenge to a man from a society which...``

-- Beta, you took the remark out of context - you were dragging others into something that was supposed to concern only the two of us. I found that uncalled for - why rely on them as a means of insult? Can`t you do that without bringing them into this? In all my interacts to you, have I ever attacked any of your friends?

As for the issues of jihad, blasphemy laws and ``honour killings`` - I`ll take you up on this some other time - promise! Enjoying the weather too much at the moment - not in the mood... tata till then... take care and don`t let the jihadi bugs bite you!

Oh and one more thing.... You said you were going to trust the CE for the meaning of Jihad. Word of advice: don`t. Not even Pakistanis trust him... (well, most anyway).

Jay

Here you go again.... this obsession with Pakistan is not nice for you. Do something constructive for India ... please?

As for Desi ... I as a Pakistani hate the Word Desi as much as you do ... seriously even the thought of having anything common with a nation that produces supooots like you is quite disturbing... :)

Love (Sarcasm!)

Yasser Hamdani

DOWN WITH THE `DESI`,

This abhorant idea of Desi is a pakistani construct. For the Bangladeshi, it is the noble bengali civilisation, for the tamilian of srilanka it is the great tamil kingdom, for the sinhalese it is the prosperous Perahara empire, for the nepali it is the gurkha tradition and the only hindu kingdom and for the Pakistani, there is zilch, Nothing.

By tracing a one dimensional history through the indian tapestry, the pakistanis are left with nothing, all that is islamic has been claimed by the Saudis, and what they have is what is essentially indian. The TNT prevents them from claiming anything that is indian and the crafty one`s have come up with this Desi idea. No sir, there is nothing Desi, it is Indian, and dont try to name it something else so that you can circumvent the dictates of ingrained TNT thinking. May be a three nation theory can set you free.

Lubna #35,

``Or are you not man enough to fight me on a one-to-one basis?``

I was waiting for you to chill out as I donot believe in personal insults. In an anonymous medium, insults aimed at an individual level has no meaning. I accept your above remark as the ultimate challenge to a man from a society which adores Gaznavi as a symbol of benevolence , Jinnah as an epitome of hindu muslim unity, Tuglak as a model ruler for all the worlds and Saudi Arabia as a country to be imitated by changing the place names and legal frameworks.

What is of interest to me is the `jihad` and you apparently know what it means. I have heard the meaning from the leaders of hamas a few days ago, I have heard it from your CE a few weeks ago, the ` ``armed men flowing into kashmir has nothing to do with the govt of pakistan, they are doing their religious duty``. On chowk I have read one version where jihad is a war against oppression, against poverty and ignorance. Great, but the fear of fatwa prevents any, even on chowk to say that the hordes streaming to kashmir to kill the kafirs are not jihadists, they are terrorists. What is important is not ones private version of jihad, what is needed is the conviction to say what is not. The words of challenge, I leave for you to conjure.

For the meaning of jihad I will trust CE .

The same is true with the blasphemy laws, I have heard it on the chowk, these laws are against Islam, but I trust the scholars of the Sharia Court of Paklistan, they have said, they are completely in tune with islam, while the simple interest charged by the banks are un-islamic.

Finally a word of advise, the venom and anger at ` honour killing` could be a more useful outlet.

regards and best wishes

jay

Two professors, from Dartmouth I believe, analyzed past Olympics medal tallies and found that a formula with two parameters account give a roughly 95% accurate prediction -- that is, Olympic medal tallies are quite deterministic. They predicted the Sydney results quite well.

The two parameters are :

1. Gross National Product.

2. Number of medals won in previous Olympics.

So, assuming that this formula holds good, we can in principle compute some bounds on how fast South Asia can increase its medal tally. Clearly GNP is not the problem; it is the second parameter that is. Climbing out of past history is hard.

The NY Times gave a reference to the paper, but I`ve lost it. Anyone ?

-arun gupta

KUWAIT CITY (AFP) - Four Pakistani workers died after inhaling toxic gases in a sewage manhole in a private farm west of Kuwait City, newspapers reported Thursday.

//some people seek gutters wherever they go, kuwait or even on the internet. cheers.

Such warped reasoning - truly amazing.

At the risk/peril of encouraging you i have to add - the bit about the beggars union in Kerela was amusing. are you an analyst by any chance??

dear Ras,

a pleasure to read.

shandana

Dear Rashid:

To further avoid any ambiguity. Here is a list of 110 meters hurdle OLympic winners (1896-1996).

Year Winner Nation Result

1896 Thomas Curtis USA 17.6

1900 Alvin Kraenzlein USA 15.4

1904 Frederick Schule USA 16.0

1908 Forrest Smithson USA 15.0

1912 Frederick Kelly USA 15.1

1920 Earl Thomson Canada 14.8

1924 Daniel Kinsey USA 15.0

1928 Sydney Atkinson South Africa 14.8

1932 George Saling USA 14.6

1936 Forrest Towns USA 14.2

1948 William Porter USA 13.9

1952 Harrison Dillard USA 13.7

1956 Lee Calhoun USA 13.5

1960 Lee Calhoun USA 13.8

1964 Hayes Jones USA 13.6

1968 Willie Davenport USA 13.3

1972 Rod Milburn USA 13.24

1976 Guy Drut France 13.30

1980 Thomas Munkelt East Germany 13.39

1984 Roger Kingdom USA 13.20

1988 Roger Kingdom USA 12.98

1992 Mark McKoy Canada 13.12

1996 Allen Johnson USA 12.95

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. Are you sure that you are not confusing the World Olympics with some other games?

In response to krashid (Reply # 42)

Dear Rashid:

In 1960 Olympics, it was Lee Calhoun (not Talib)who won the 110 meter hurdles. This is what I found in the ``Encyclopedia Britannica``:

``Calhoun was suspended from amateur athletics in 1958 for receiving gifts on a television game show. In 1960 he tied Martin Lauer`s world record of 13.2 seconds for the 110-metre hurdles. At the 1960 Olympics in Rome he won another gold medal in the 110-metre hurdles; in an even closer race, he and American Willie May were officially clocked at 13.8 seconds, and the automatic timer showed Calhoun winning by only 0.01 second.``

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Mr Ahmed #40:

As much as I respect you and your contributions to the discussions on Chowk (find them very informative) - I have to say this:

Hey, I wasn`t the one who started the gutter talk! And I HAD been leaving Jay alone until he started all that about the deaths. Don`t want to bother with Jay - my energy resources are too precious to be wasted on him - but he asked me something to which I replied.

As far as his potential to play a ``positive`` role on Chowk is concerned: we all have the potential to do a lot - good and bad - it`s only a matter of choosing which direction to take. He obviously has made the choice to use his potential energy negatively. I admit I haven`t been here long - but I have yet to come across a post by Jay that can be considered as a positive contribution. And why does he have to spoil it for the rest of us by releasing his tensions HERE?

Re Mr T-Rex or whatever your name is #36:

(L-U-B-N-A = LUBNA - is that too difficult for you?)

[[What Jihad ``really is`` hardly matters. What it has been surfacing as lately is a call and rallying point for Islamic terror....all over the world from Chechnya to Phillipines to Israel to India to US.]]

Well, what can I say? There are people like Mr Jay (oh I respect him so much) in every country, found in every religion, including Islam.

Mr Siddiqui:

I`m so sorry to take up so much space on your board. I hope you understand and can forgive me. By the way, entertaining article - I share your disappointment with the performance of the South Asian teams at the Olympics. Serious question - weren`t they thinking about introducing cricket into the Games as well some years back?

krashid #30 Thanks for mentioning Talib whom I did not know about.

I dont want to comment on the sports part of the article because I have full faith in the Pakistani nation that given the proper infrastructure they will rise above these odds and claim glory.

I wish however to comment on your insistence on the US being your country ... Adopted hee sahi...

I want you to comment on how you feel about Lazio, Hilary, Guliani, Corzine, Bob Franks .. G W

and Gore ... and about the comments that they made in the on going election campaign.

If I were an American I would be ashamed!!!!!!!!!

BAhmed #32

I think matter is clarified by another person. I did not remember the event. But it was I think 1960 Olympics.

I can call Mr. Talib to confirm it:-)

ALL CHOWKWALLA:

Let us talk about the Olympics, not gutter Olympics.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

P.S. Lubna, please leave Jay alone. Let him release some of his tensions on the Chowk. I must, however, accept that Jay has great potential to play a positive role on the Chowk as well as in reducing unnecessary bickering between India and Pakistan. Jay, I miss your positive posts. Please consider.

In response to Banjaara (Reply # 37)

Dear Banjaara:

You are right about Abdul Khaliq. He was a sprinter only (as far as I remember). I have seem Mohammad Talib doing both (by the way, I was a very active osbservor/participant in the track and field athletics). However, I started reacting on this board when I noticed some confusion regarding Pakistan`s Olympic victories. I need not, however, remind of those days when Pakistan replaced India as the prime winner in Field Hockey (though both teams outperfomed the rest of the world, of course once upon a time).

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ps: snafu in transmission.Pls read on....

Abdul Khaliq 100 meters sprint

Mohd. Talib 110 meters hurdles

Nawaz Khan Javelin

Mohd. Iqbal Hammer

Mubarak Shah 3000 meters Steeplechase

Allak Rakha Pole Vault.

All of them held asian records in their respective

items and won gold medals in 1954,1958 and 1962

Asian Games held in Manila,Tokyo and Jakarta

respectively.However,none of them could win a

medal at any of the Olympics.

Regards.

ahmadb#32

Just for the records:

Abdul Khaliq 100 meters sprint

Mohammad Talib 110 meters hurdles

Re: Lube or Lubna or whatever

``And btw, who said women are excluded from jihad - do you even know what jihad really is?``

What Jihad ``really is`` hardly matters. What it has been surfacing as lately is a call and rallying point for Islamic terror....all over the world from Chechnya to Phillipines to Israel to India to US.

Jay #33:

Why are you dragging others into this? Or are you not man enough to fight me on a one-to-one basis? But since you`ve asked, let me answer. You asked me where I was at the time - right here. If my memory serves me correctly, (hell, I`ll just repost it for you here), the post about the rape of the handicapped was a plea to you to clean up the mess in your own backyard before pointing your dirty little finger at other people`s messes. And as far as its relevance is concerned, it was just as relevant as YOUR posts on that board (or anywhere else for that matter).

Now, compare t`s post to your own re the incident in Kuwait (also reposted below so you won`t have to go around looking for it - oh i`m so helpful :)). Now... which one should one be offended by? Hope this cheers you up - you seemed to have been somewhat saddened by my earlier actions.

And since I`m feeling too lazy to travel aaaaaaall the way to the other message board to reply to your other post - taking it easy like you told me to - I`ll just do it here. Save time for both of us. So, to answer your question, again, I was right here. You could have continued the gutter talk for as long as you`d wanted to without referring to the deaths - wouldn`t have minded at all. In fact, you have been pointing our gutters out to us for a very long time - never made me sick. This time you did - sorry to puke all over you - only gutter I could find at the time - am not familiar with our gutters you see. Maybe you can help?

Oh and one more thing - I wasn`t supporting any brothers - don`t have any - was just disgusted by your total disregard for the loss of four human lives. And btw, who said women are excluded from jihad - do you even know what jihad really is?

__________________________________________________

ras siddiqui #29:

[...And by the way Canada earned 15 total medals in the last winter Olympics and is sure to win some
more in the next one. Will South Asia do better?...]

south asia in WINTER olympics? OK.

[...(Notice that I did not say India here but was
sure tempted)...]

hey, resist everything but temptation. as the ad goes - whatever calamities you can think of...bring it on.

To Lubna,

It is so sad to see your indignation. Where were you when your beloved t-bhai was posting about the rape of handicapped in kerala which had no relevance what so ever. Ask t-bhai about the meaning of integrity. By the way, the spitting contest that is posted here by your t-bhai is word for word from a post by hamidm a year or so ago.

I remeber hamid posted it as a tribute to some region of pakistan. It was humourous, poetic, I wish hamid has the original and he posts it here to contrast the sterile copying.

Take it easy, dont make me a topic.

In response to krashid (Reply # 30)

Dear Rashid:

There is always a danger of misinformation when one relies solely upon his/her memory. Your reference to Mohammad Talib is a little bit disturbing for me. I knew Talib personally, and he was a good sprinter from Pakistani standards only. As far as I remember from my memory, his time for 100 meters was close to eleven seconds. In those days, Abdul Khaliq of Pakistan army was the fastest sprinter (again from my memory) who probably won in the Asian Games (my memory is a bit fuzzy). Here is a list of the Olympic Gold Medalists in 100 meters (1896-1988):

Year Winner, Country Time

1896 Tom Burke, USA 12.0

1900 Frank Jarvis, USA 11.0

1904 Archie Hahn, USA 11.0

1906 Archie Hahn, USA 11.2

1908 Reggie Walker, S. Afr. 10.8O

1912 Ralph Craig, USA 10.8

1920 Charley Paddock, USA 10.8

1924 Harold Abrahams, GBR 10.6O

1928 Percy Williams, CAN 10.8

1932 Eddie Tolan, USA 10.3O

1936 Jesse Owens, USA 10.3w

1948 Harrison Dillard, USA 10.3O

1952 Lindy Remigino, USA 10.4

1956 Bobby Morrow, USA 10.5

1960 Armin Hary, GER 10.2O

1964 Bob Hayes, USA 10.0W

1968 Jim Hines, USA 9.95W

1972 Valery Borzov, USSR 10.14

1976 Hasely Crawford, TRI 10.06

1980 Allan Wells, GBR 10.25

1984 Carl Lewis, USA 9.99

1988 Carl Lewis, USA * 9.92W

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Enjoyed the article.

tAhmed#

You forgot to mention Mohammed Talib, I think the gold medalist in 1960 Olympics in sprint.

RE: Concerned Reply #3
Lighten up man. There is no need to bust any
brain vessels. In this case ALL South Asians
are in the same boat.
And by the way Canada earned 15 total medals in
the last winter Olympics and is sure to win some
more in the next one. Will South Asia do better?
(Notice that I did not say India here but was
sure tempted).
On Temporal with a small ``t`` Reply # 17
The most accurate reason remains:
``(c) Author is beyond hope or redemption``

Ras

In response to fairdinkum (Reply # 23)

Dear Fairdinkum:

I indeed was thinking about the success of athletes from many small and poor countries around the world. I am also appreciative of the fact that money and resources are a key to success in present-day Olympics. But, if money is the only major determining factor than athletes from some Arab countries must out-perform from most other countries.

Pakistani society has no dearth of able bodied kids, at least from the middle-class families (but not restricted to this class only), who could be trained well with minimum expense to compete in sports. We, unfortunately, look too much toward the state which lacks the capacity to deliver as well as possess the capacity to directly or indirectly (yet often unintendedly) curb the initiative. Freedom, not money, is a prerequisite to initiative and self-reliance. And, I am talking about the freedom of minds, bodies, and spirits but not of the kind we received on August 14, 1947.

I encourage the Pakistanis (and other nations in a similar state) to look into the processes involved in the creation of a culture of TV and sycophancy (a la Sameer) and my persistent reference to the social relations of state, civil society, and economy. Pakistanis often successfully accomplish what they want to do, and at the moment they don’t seem to care about the health of their minds, bodies and spirits. There is a denial and a negativity built in our society which is a product of bad governments and their policies. A good and healthy society needs a sense of direction, a positive attitude, creativity, and a desire to reach certain goals.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Lubna #24 Jay wouldnt qualify - despite temporal`s kind reminders, Jay refuses to take his pills on time.

TRAINING LONG DISTANCE RUNNERS,

There is some evidence that pakistan has taken the Ras article seriously and has started training long distance runners. From nation of today,

Beggars flee to rural areas to avoid arrest

KARACHI-Hundreds of beggars have gone to rural areas of Malir to evade arrest during the anti-beggary campaign. The City`s main roundabouts stand free of beggars. The on-going anti-beggary campaign has showed a positive result and many parts of the City comprising Districts South and East have also been cleared of beggars. The IG Police recently launched an anti-beggar drive during which a few hundreds beggars have been picked up. However, IGP Sindh Aftab Nabi has directed all the police officials that no leniency should be there.

In order to escape arrest, hundreds of beggars have escaped to Razakabad, Gulshan-e-Hadeed, Pipri, Memon Goth, Gadap and other adjoining areas. These beggars have started begging in the villages. The villagers are pestered to such an extent that they visited the Malir Press Club and urged the administration to extend the anti-beggary drive to the rural areas.

In the past, the beggars were mostly Kolis, Bheels, Meghwars, Marwaris. Now women from the belt known as Ryasti, Baloch and Pathan women have also started begging.

///There could be some surviving beggers who has gone from city to village and back to the city several times over, being chased by the police and could be an ideal candidate for marathon. It is quite possible that the runners from the dectatorial africa are selected by this process. In a democratic india it is hard to do, like in kerala thare was a union of beggers, headed by a member of the legislature.

There are pakistanis with some good ideas, chowk should be treated as an exception, and they are implementing policies adapted from other dictators, while the chowk pakistanis dream of the US style democracy, and finding it hard to answer children`s questions, like what does kafir mean.

A DISTANT LAND,

Ras,

``My only reaction to that is a somewhat remote sourness did surface when my American born daughter asked what sports Pakistan played and when they were going to be on local television?``

Take it easy Ras, tell your daughter to watch television news of today, Pakistan is one of the countries where the US embassy is closed down for a week. Take a good old book from pakistan, before k for kafir add, j for jihad, show the images from 60 minutes, children rocking like automatam, being trained to respond like pavlovian dogs. Education has value what ever that might be, even if it is about pakistan.

t, tahmed:

[[[..... Ach-thu: ]

----Thanks for reminding me. Almost forgot. With or without chewing tobacco (naswaar.) On a dart board, from fifteen feet, scored out of best of five, with maximum ‘re-thoocking’ time of 60 seconds between each attempt. Winner to face that Thackeray clone on Chowk.]]

I`m sure we can find individuals here at Chowk who`d be more than happy to participate in this one. And would be eager to win the competition too with such an attractive reward. I for one wouldn`t mind facing that Jay guy as long as someone else does the thoocking for me. And as long as Jay`s not too big. He seems to be preparing himself well though - already salivating.

(scout - he validated your statement :()

Oh he makes me sick!

ahmadb #19

hmm, ok, granted that some events, such as long distance running, may not require huge amounts of money for training/coaching etc. purposes….. As for the absence of sports culture, well, there may be a correlation between abject poverty and lack of sports culture. Schools do not have enough funds to have a chair and desk for every student, let alone provide students with sports facilities…. Also, there is this belief amongst most middle to lower middle class families that the only way to success for their kids is through education, and sports is generally viewed as an impediment to this.

And just to confuse things a bit more, success of African nations in long distance running is linked to lack of transport in rural areas of East Africa, where people usually travel from one village to another, often miles away, on foot …so, here is a correlation between poverty and long distance running :)

SameerJB:

If only they knew that once they become Olympic champs/world camps, they can literally buy PTV, and Prime Mister House in a year…:)

(On a more serious note), I agree that it is more than just money. Otherwise why would the East African win marathons? Indeed, Pakistan was somewhat better at one time: In the early sixties, we had at least three medal-winning olympians. These were Raziq (hurdles), Ramzan (long jump) and Khaliq (marathon, I think). In Pakistan this lack of progress may reflect a reduced emphasis on character building and good sportsmanship. As some British peer said, battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton. We could have put up a better show, I am sure, if our education system had not suffered, and a certain amount of demoralization and cynicism not set in in the country, under a series of rats who came to power over the past 3 decades.

P.S. I am not including India in the above discussion since (a) I dont know enough, and (b) am assured from certain posts on chowk on the complete perfection of everything in India. P.P.S. b) above is a joke, and not meant to offend our friends from across the border.

Re: scout #8

You hit it on the nail :)

Sewage systems, plumbing systems, uninterrupted power supply, telephones for all, and a hospitable in every village. Until South Asia can provide that for all its people, we will continue to be viewed as medieval people who haven`t learned how to govern themselves and manage their resources.

Only then can we think about winning Olympic medals.

In response to Fairdinkum (Reply # 14)

Dear Fairdinkum:

Your statement: ``Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to compare India/Pakistan to these giants (in terms of resources, not population)? Forget about billions, how many millions of dollars are spent on training, coaching, providing world-class facilities etc. to the athletes from the Subcontinent?``

Comment: On the whole, I agree with your argument. However, there are many areas of the Olympic sports which really do not require much money--such as long-distance running. I think, it is the absence of sports culture that may be the main source of our lack of participation. I think, this is what Sameer has also tried to point out in his funny/witty commentry.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

temporal, tahmed: Many Pakistani could have won 5000, 10000 meters and longer races-only if they had large visible pictures of PTV Station or Prime Minister House at the finish line, clearly visible from the starting line.

It takes extensive training in most field to achieve top position, not only in sports but in every aspect of life. We people belong to ``shugal`` culture believing more in destiny and fate than self confidence-irrespective of labelled as either avian or bovine species (tilyars or dhaggas).

temporal:

[--- prophetically spoken, such is fate :)]

the moving finger writes...

concerned 16:

[Thanks for the welcome. I am sure a song would be forthcoming to reduce me to smithereens! Can’t wait for it.]
--- prophetically spoken, such is fate :)

and from #3:

[..why the preferential treatment, sir? no critical review of the article from `english` p.o.v. :-)]
---take your pick:

(a) This is not a literary piece.
(b) This is not a first appearance.
(c) Author is beyond hope or redemption
(d) It is a perfect article.
(e) Have done it exhaustively in the past.
(f) Have started charging for services (sort of WordGigolo with a motto ‘pleasure not guaranteed’)
(g) Am sober.
(h) It is Friday!

tahmed321 #7:

[..... 100 meters freestyle: The one who reaches the airport ticket counter first, having broken through the line and pushed aside weaker opponents, wins. Those pushing aside women with children get special mention....]
----In addition to the gold medal the winner gets to test his/her mettle against the giant Sudanese in a free for all to kiss Hajra-e-Aswad the black stone at Kaaba in the last ten days of Ramadaan.

[..... Ach-thu: ]
----Thanks for reminding me. Almost forgot. With or without chewing tobacco (naswaar.) On a dart board, from fifteen feet, scored out of best of five, with maximum ‘re-thoocking’ time of 60 seconds between each attempt. Winner to face that Thackeray clone on Chowk.

regards,

temporal

Cheraym,

Hi,

I won`t have bothered to put a reply here, but for ras`s attempts to link sports to politics. On one hand, we hear the pakistanis criticize india about refusing to play cricket with them. `we should keep sports separate from politics` is the argument put forth by them. Then there is an about turn and sports performance is linked to eligibility for unsc, counterweight to china, ability to code/uncode, and everything else on earth.

But for the words `saffron brigade, emerging superpower, claim to unsc, moral support` and such, this article would not get my attention. Is there anything new in this that is not said after every olympic?

Crypto,

Hi,

Thanks for the welcome. I am sure a song would be forthcoming to reduce me to smithereens! Can’t wait for it.

concerned #3:

welcome back... so you still can`t resist pelting your favourite `song man`, can you ?

Dear Ras Siddiqui,

Enjoyed the funny aspects of your piece. Well written too!

You forgot to mention that my country (now Australia), a tiny nation of 17 million people, won a massive total of 58 medals (16 Gold, 25 Silver, 17 Bronze) - 4th on the list of medal telly, ahead of all European nations (except Russia) and all Asian nations (except China).

Merely 6 days after the Olympics, when Olympic mania subsided, the council of Australian scientists and researchers condemned the Australian government for spending an estimated 15 billion dollars on sports, and related areas in the last 4 years or so as opposed to a mere 1.6 billion on scientific and other research. For the last three years, the prestigious Australian of the year award has gone to sportsmen.

I have no idea what kind of money is spent on European athletes and US athletes. I suspect billions of dollars… Don’t you think it’s a little unfair to compare India/Pakistan to these giants (in terms of resources, not population)? Forget about billions, how many millions of dollars are spent on training, coaching, providing world-class facilities etc. to the athletes from subcontinent?

I thought, I should set the record straight for the benefit of your American born daughter. I am sure she`d understand :)

Sure, we performed dismally at the Olympics. But I am proud that for the first time in Pakistan`s history, we fielded a woman athlete, Shazia Khan (I think that`s her name), in track and field. Bravo Shazia!!!!

concerned #3, why such knee-jerk reaction? Ras is so very accurate about the failure of us. Let us face it. This is really a shame, but until the governments in South-Asia clear up their mess and set the priorities, this will happen every four years!

Regards

I think somewhere along the way we have all forgotten that the purpose of the Olympics is not to win, but to participate; to walk the 400m on the opening day. More than an being an athletic competition, the Olympics show us how commmon boundaries - that is, the quest of man to better himself (faster, higher, stronger) - transcend all else.

Baron whateverhisname, the father of the modern Olympis daid something along the lines of ``It is not winning that is important, but knowing that you tried your best``.

Rafay

PS: Sorry if this throws a spanner into an otherwise fun (and witty) reply thread.

Re: Ras

A slightly different article from you!

I am not sure what you were lamenting about! You really did not except India or Pakistan to really win anything, did you? :) LOL

There is one sport in, which India and Pakistan excell and I think, it should be included in all major international events. It is called Babulethon! Who ever is the most obtuse and the most prone to making a mess out things, should be awarded the gold medal for sheer stupidity and incompetence!

I am not sure about the composition of the Indian contingents, but Pakistani contingents have more officials than actual sportsmen! Being over paid; over weight; overly vain and excelling in mediocrity, nothing hopeful should be accepted from them!

Ciao!

temporal #2. (This replaces my previous post which I screwed up while sending hurriedly).

I agree that if the Olympics were culturally sensitive, they would include the events you list to show their talents. I would therefore not stop with ten events geared to give South Asians a chance. Here are the next ten which would cause gold medals to be showered upon our South Asian Jawans:

1. Discuss Throw: The aim being to continue to discuss and argue after competition has dropped out from exhaustion.

2. 100 meters freestyle: The one who reaches the airport ticket counter first, having broken through the line and pushed aside weaker opponents, wins. Those pushing aside women with children get special mention.

3. Long distance marathon: The aim being to steal money and run as far away as possible. The race starts in Islamabad, and the finish lines are at either London (for silver medal) or New York (for gold medal) airports.

4. Ach-thu: (Exotic name, like jiu-jitsu, for a local sport) Largest volume of spit delivered on other guy`s face (or religion, or ethnicity, or whatever else you think the other guy considers personal business). Contenders from India and Pakistan, having been well trained on internet, are expected to make a clean sweep.

5-10. Gotta go: Fail to live up to word (I win this one, since I got to attend to some unimportant business now, and so must stop at 4).

temporal #2.

I agree that if the Olympics were culturally sensitive, they would include the events you list and Gold Medals would we showered upon our South Asian Jawans. I would therefore not stop with ten events geared to give South Asians a chance to show their talents. Here are the next ten:out from exhaustion.

2. 100 meters freestyle: The one who reaches the airport ticket counter first, having broken

1. Discuss Throw: The aim being to continue to discuss and argue after competition has dropped through the line and pushed aside weaker opponents, wins. Those pushing aside women with children get special mention.

3. Long distance marathon: The aim being to steal money and run as far away as possible. The race starts in Islamabad, and the finish lines are at either London (for silver medal) or New York (for gold medal) airports.

4. Ach-thu: (Exotic name, like jiu-jitsu, for a local sport) Largest volume of spit on other guy`s face (or religion, or ethnicity, or whatever else you think the other guy considers personal business). Contenders from India and Pakistan, having been well trained on internet, are expected to make a clean sweep.

5-10. Gotta go: Fail to live up to word (I win this one, since I got to attend to some unimportant business now).

There is a black youngman from some African country who immigrated to Canada few years ago. He came in contact with some Sikh youth in British Columbia (I wonder how did that happen:-)) and started playing Kabaddi with them. He is such a good player that no Kabaddi tournament in North America is complete with out him. They have named him Tofaan Singh with affection. Obviously he can pick the whole Indian team and carry them past the line.

Guess what? Tofaan Singh has what it takes to be a sportsman. He also wrestles and have won a Gold Medal in Sydney for Canada.

Most of the Punjabi papers are finding solace in the fact that atleast ``their`` Tofaan Singh has won the medal:-)

I wonder if any of our Rustme-hinds and Rustme-jahans of the the past actually took panga with soemone outside their state.

ras siddiqui,

As RSaxena would say, we don`t have proper sewage systems in the area, who cares about the Olympics.

:)

t-bhai #2,

hehehe, you`re turning into a desi Letterman.

hilarious!

Olympics are staged to honor ‘First World Athletes’ .. and that is the bottom line .. sure one can argue that few African and under developed European countries (Romania) countries get those medals .. Look at the Athletic events , there is Volley-Ball and Beach Volley-Ball, Baseball and Softball and hell now they have all these stupid sports in which Americans and European excel .. Why cant we have Cricket as an Olympic sports .. It did show up as an Olympic sports in 1900’s Olympic .. the only match played then was between England and FRANCE! Now that brownies have stepped in the ring with 1.7 billion + and always growing sub-continental fans why cant we have one day Cricket with regular and tape ball .. why not .. han The Americans and Europeans have started playing it yet thats why JIMBO … even Kabadi and Somo ( I bet we can win a Somo medal if we pick a Gunjranwala Pehlwan) why not .. American Fatso softball team can play Kabdi well ..

And to top that all .. more like a root cause is the non existence of sports culture in the subcontinent region .. parents, society does not approve or encourage the youth to participate in Sports … for the ones who some how come in sports/athletics there is no coaching and infrastructure .. well I can go on and on

BUT (a big butt like the one that Pitcher of American softball had) the event is a representative of American And European athletics … not subcontinent or other countries (except for China and Japan) who some times get a ‘candy’ for participating .. Thank you very much third world athlete you might wanna buy a Trampoline to win a medal in the next Olympics!

Re Kabaddi--during the Asiad in Beijing, it was introduced as a trial sport. The chinese sent a group to India a year or so before the event. Incidentally, they beat India to win the event--though the gold did not figure into the final Asiad count.

59/1 = 59
1/0 = ?

:-)

one has to admire the pakistani journalists’ capabilities in displaying such jehadic fervor while criticisizing india even in sports. Bravo!

you are so right mr siddiqui. India should not be allowed to become a member of the unsc - for it failed to win medals in the olympics. And while you are jehading for it, it would only make sense to launch another mini jehad for the removal of canada from the g8 - for winning less gold medals than ethiopia.

And why worry about whether the chinese can code or not? As long as they can steal it, you can rest easy. Just a bit of land here and there, and they would pass it on to you as well!

Have you given the ny times or the sj mercury a try, mr siddiqui? a journalistic talent like yours with such a penetrating grasp on world affairs surely deserves a wider audience.

temporal:

why the preferential treatment, sir? no critical review of the article from `english` p.o.v. :-)

Ras:

There are better events than Gilli Danda. Here’s my top ten.


NEW OLYMPIC EVENTS: FOR SOUTH ASIAN EGO

10: Who’s first out of a closed railway crossing.
9: Pigeons: 32 mile marathon.
8: Pigeons: 400 m dash over loc.
7: Pigeons: 2x50 m over Girl’s college fence.
6: Most assorted vehicles covering 10km/day on an undivided road.
7: Most posts on any Desi E-zine (only after ISI/RAW contain Yasser)
6: Highest tally in 24 hours cross border firing. (uniformed personnel only.)
5: Most killed in unarmed/civilian plane shooting.
4: Mosque/temple demolition competition.
3: Highest kickback deposited in numbered accounts.
2: Quickest time to jam a jumbo toilet in flight.
1: Mine is indeed bigger than yours competition

---t

RE: Ras Siddique

I wish you hadnt open the stink hole. I always thought that you were above that.:(