The Burden of Virginity

fairdinkum #68
My statement about independence and free choice and my earlier post #57 related solely to `` my opinion`` about the choices of American/American-born teenagers/young people generally. It may hold true among desis?

Re` history, I didnot mean in the sense of discussing or revealing, I meant as in `facets` of a person`s life. Without trying to pronounce judgement on these facets, I will say I think Western `liberal` societies are less realistic (almost wilfully) than desi societies wrt anticipating consequences of an individual`s actions on the individual and those around her/him.
Back to #1, I think?
Sadhana

urstruly,

hmmm, accha theek hai yar..ab khatum...

sadna #64

Well, if you ask me, matching exactly what one’s peers do, or what one’s favorite pop idol does, down to dressing, does not constitute a true liberal outlook of independence and free choice. In my view, all it constitutes is exchanging indoctrination (in whatever forms/varieties they exist in our culture/tradition), to something even less meaningful and hollow. This, as you rightly point out, unfortunately is the trend amongst our desi population who seem to be more interested in or fearful of (as the case may be depending on who you talk to) superficial, and sometimes unwarranted (in my view) side effects of liberal democracies/western culture than its essence and spirit responsible for delivering the real freedom of choice/liberty/social justice in western societies. deekha I can write long sentences too:)

I was thinking about your statement: “……wondering about his/her previous sexual history, no no thats crossing the line.” And some of the statements I have made in this regard :)

What would be some of the reasons relevant to our culture/people (in terms of cultural practices/norms, sociology, religious influences etc.), which may make us, feel uncomfortable about exploring/talking about the sexual history of our perspective partners?
Why would some of us want to keep our own sexual history a well-guarded secret? These are some of the questions we need to answer to develop a reasonable understanding of the issue you have raised in your above statement.

The issue you have raised in your above statement is more relevant, important, and strikes at the heart of the very issue, which the author has endeavored to explore in her piece (in a rather crude manner, I must say)....

{Too many interesting articles and responses on chowk and here i am sitting with my dumb code, trying to make some sense out of it :( }

In-laws...what if they find out...that typical, ``kal-moonhi, pehley se hi moonh kala kar ke aayi thee iss ghar mein.Hai... mere chand jaisey betey ki zindagi barbad kar di iss chudail ney``.

And how does one get her mother-in-law to understand that it is okay nowadays to indulge oneself now and then before marriage?

The guy, it would be HIS fault. He should have asked the girl much earlier than wait for the curtain to rise on the wedding night.

Is pre-marital sex a matter of choice or a matter of opportunity?

Whatever the girl`s compulsions, these issues should have been brought much earlier. And on the wedding night, she would only be naive to expect a ``no problem smile`` from her hubby.

The situation in the article sounded more like jeetendra`s movie. I could actually imagine jaya prada as the bride.

In reality, i actually dread such a situation...sincerely i don`t know how i`ll respond...what will i say..?

Tho lut gaye...lut gaye...



pullu

What if the bride is not virgin because she was raped in past ?????

how many men will understand, and belive it?

RE: Fairdinkum #63

Jesus! God! Allah! Russel!
Get a grip-for cryin` out loud.

fairdinkum #63

Thanks for your words, kind or unkind :-). You make very good points, don`t mind my going off on a tangent to blow off steam :-).

I just haven`t been able to understand how when one`s life choices are based on matching exactly what one`s peers do, or what one`s favorite pop idol does, down to dressing, it is considered to constitute a liberal outlook of independence and free choice.

Sadhana

sadna #57

Sadhana,

What a wonderful post! Thoroughly enjoyed it! :) very desi, with a scent of Hindustani/Pakistani mitti approach to dissecting the issue at hand :)
Simple, and yet very practical and brilliant.

I thought only my mother talks like that :) Except for your comment about the sexual history, the rest is indistinguishable from what my mother talks about all the time. :)(i hope you are not offended, i mean it as a compliment)

accha yar theek hai, ammi nay sab khuch bataya tha aur acchi tarah samjha diya tha keh kya theek hai aur kya ghalat hai.. terms like liberal democracy waghira tu apan show marnay kay liya use kartay hain… :) ab yay baat bus apnay tak hi rakhan … theek hai? :)

In principal, I concur with you 100%. It sometimes, really, is a topsy-turvy world :-).

After reading all the interacts, I`d like to clarify some points.

1) The gist of my message was that women should NOT base decisions about their body upon cultural standards, but to use their own common sense.

My personal common sense is to abstain until I find the right person. If that means waiting, so be it. I`d rather have it mean something other than just a thrill seeking adventure. We have bunjee jumping for that.

2) Some interactors believe that my message seems too contrived. WEll, the fact of the matter is, I said what I felt. Maybe I am simple minded. I`ve used my personal experiences and values to make the decision.

You all have raised very interesting points. I wish I could reply individually, but there are only 24 hours in one day, and too much work to do.

One would hope he would know his bride before the wedding night and make his decision then. In this day and age I would expect my wife to maintain the same standards and sense of morality as I do. In other words, if I`m not a virgin, I wouldn`t hold her to a double standard.

Dear Ms A Bismil

I would not be happy. Not because I think that she is ``evil`` or ``bad`` because she had premarital sex, but because I know that she knew that virginity is an issue in a Pakistani marriage. She (presumably) had an opportunity to convey this piece of information to me _before_ the signing of marriage documents, yet she did not. This implies that she intentionally and willfully cheated me as a first act of marriage. A relationship that begins with lying and cheating is rarely a fulfilling one for either party.

hth

DQ

Dukhtay/tee * * *, ristay/tee * * * ko RaKhShee ka salaam...

RE: Kestion answer session on Suhaag raat

I think the first follow up question was nicely advertised in the classic filum Sholay:

kitnay aadmee thay woooh??

RE: Sadna #57

I just got crushed, squished, and splatted under your topsy turvey world. The logic that you usually use is beyond the reaches of my feable mind. Anyway you are entitled to your opinion-For me I think it will take a day or two to sink in.

PS. Plz ignore the harsh tone in this reply, not deliberately intended-I think I have been a li`l bit hard on you lately.

#47, #48
Its sometimes a topsy-turvy world in a liberal democracy. If your mother advises you about it, and leaves you in no doubt about some of the real consequences for you and others close to you, bad bad, its straight-out indoctrination to be rejected out of hand. However, if a great liberal democracy decides to invest taxpayer dollars in school programs where your teachers are paid to preach abstinence to you, thats quite alright. If a huge number of voters feel strongly that government-funded faith-based programs ought to teach `values` after school, wonderful. Also if some big shots try to look good in an election year by making a public show of persuading media moghuls to refrain from leading young people astray through popular culture, thats also just the greatness of the great liberal democracy. But your mom or dad or community or traditional religion/culture influencing you on the matter of your `free choice` as well, unh unh, soooo uncool.

Also, apparently, its kosher to care a whole lot about what your prospective mate looks like or wears including tattoos :-) or what common interests you share or the music you both listen to, even often what car he/she drives, but wondering about his/her previous sexual history, no no thats crossing the line.

Its sometimes a topsy-turvy world :-).

Sadhana

are you UNCHARTERED territory or UNCHARTED territory? LOL

Hamid M:

I love your writing style. It is witty, informative, original and ruthless. Keep up the good work.

regards

Harpreet