The Burden of Virginity
A Bismil October 15, 2000
#113 Posted by OMAR1974 on October 29, 2000 10:03:50 am
She`s a man-eater
(From The Friday Times)
I have a maid whose husband, an old man in his sixties, died of a heart attack when they were ``in bed``. That must be terrible. Imagine trying to come to grips with the fact that it was your enthusiasm that killed someone. If that`s not enough to inhibit you for the rest of your life, I don`t know what is. But inhibitions? No. We have none here. She scoffs at another maid whose husband beats her up, saying the latter deserves it for not ``satisfying`` him. After all, her own husband died from a case of over-satisfaction.
Much as this colourful character shocks me, she pales in comparison to some of the other beauties that I have had. I mean, at least she was married to the guy. I can never forget Aasia, a young maid of mine who was caught in the act with ``her brother``, who was visiting for the weekend; or Bano, my mother`s toothless old maid who insisted on sharing her charpai with a young relative whom my father had nicknamed ``the conservative nephew``.
What I remember most is their wide-eyed amazement when confronted: what`s the big deal anyway? There was this young girl in my mother`s house who was found draped all over the carpenter by some painters in the house. When the painters complained about the besharmi, behayai, and all sorts of other words beginning with `` be``, my mother called the maid, hoping to shame her into mending her ways. When asked what she had been doing with the carpenter, the maid calmly replied, `` Ji mein uss ki godi main baithi hooi thi``. (I was sitting in his lap). My mother could only come up with an embarrassed, ``Don`t do it again``. Needless to say, the liaisons with the carpenter did not end. But what I have wondered about ever since is, in situations like these, how can you ever find the right thing to say? It`s all very well to rave and rant about morality, abstinence and the virtues of monogamy, but as far as these people are concerned, they really don`t know what the fuss is all about. So who are the real freaks here? Them or us? Is it they who are shameless or us who are prudish and hypocritical?
To be honest, when I moved back three years ago to the Land of the Pure, all moralistic and patriotic, I had not given much thought to the sex lives of servants, not that I had wanted to, either. But the simple reality of trying to run a house in Pakistan makes you realise there are only two options: the first is to turn a blind eye to what happens and the second is to try and ensure that the promiscuity does not exceed all levels of decency. Once you`ve tried the second option for a few months - like I did - you also realise that only the first option is available in reality.
When we first set up shop in Lahore, we hired Nasreen, the former friend of the carpenter who had since repented her sins and married the gardener`s brother. Our thinking was that the newly married couple would keep each other occupied. Wrong. After Nasreen had given birth to their first child, her husband decided that he wasn`t quite getting his manly dues. Being the understanding little wife that she was, Nasreen assisted him in a threesome with Shagufta, another young maid who eventually accused them of coercing her into it. We had no choice but to turn the young couple out. A week later, Shagufta was overheard telling someone that she missed Nasreen`s husband. Fickle? Naw! After all a woman has a right to change her mind, right?!
Next in line was another maid whose entire family swore she was so `` sharif`` it was only a matter of time before she became a saint. One month later, the chowkidar found the roof of her quarter littered with mithas. Further investigation revealed that the mithas came from the neighbours` houseboy who had been slinging fruit at her window to catch her attention. I sent my husband over to complain to the neighbours, only to learn that the flying fruit was apparently a standard signal for the neighbourhood boys and that there had been any number of visitors to our maid`s quarter.
By now, it was time for some serious introspection. Surely I was doing something wrong - why else would I be attracting all the nymphos of the Punjab? Had I been too lenient, too Westernised in my approach? Was it time for the danda method yet?
Apparently not. I found out that just about everyone around me had been faced with similar situations. The story that won hands down though, was of a friend`s grandmother, a dignified sari-clad lady, who ventured into the servants` quarters one night, looking for the chowkidar. After repeated calls, she opened the door of his room, only to be greeted with the entertaining sight of her butt-naked Pathan trying to push three hijras out of the roshan daan! Now tell me that`s not kinky.
Still, the consensus here is that no matter how shocked we may get at some of our employees` extra-curricular activities, the blind eye method operates best, at least until the problems become too severe to ignore. After all, most of us know nothing about these people who work in our homes. Their lives have always been about survival, about doing what it takes and getting their pleasures while they can. And our comfortable platitudes make no more sense to them than Marie Antoinette`s remarks did to the Paris mob. If they resent us for shoving our upper-class moralities down their throats, it`s for good reason. Many of our values are but frivolous luxuries. The working class simply do not have the stability and certainty that we take for granted. When it comes to entertainment, we have a slightly more varied palette of options than they do. So who are we to take away one of their primary sources of enjoyment?
And who am I kidding anyway? For short of chaining your household help, you have no chance of controlling ``what comes naturally``. Recently a family friend hired a grotesque, middle-aged, Quasimodo look-alike woman as a cook in the hope that she wouldn`t attract the wrong kind of attention. She has a one-armed lover down the street already.
(From The Friday Times)
I have a maid whose husband, an old man in his sixties, died of a heart attack when they were ``in bed``. That must be terrible. Imagine trying to come to grips with the fact that it was your enthusiasm that killed someone. If that`s not enough to inhibit you for the rest of your life, I don`t know what is. But inhibitions? No. We have none here. She scoffs at another maid whose husband beats her up, saying the latter deserves it for not ``satisfying`` him. After all, her own husband died from a case of over-satisfaction.
Much as this colourful character shocks me, she pales in comparison to some of the other beauties that I have had. I mean, at least she was married to the guy. I can never forget Aasia, a young maid of mine who was caught in the act with ``her brother``, who was visiting for the weekend; or Bano, my mother`s toothless old maid who insisted on sharing her charpai with a young relative whom my father had nicknamed ``the conservative nephew``.
What I remember most is their wide-eyed amazement when confronted: what`s the big deal anyway? There was this young girl in my mother`s house who was found draped all over the carpenter by some painters in the house. When the painters complained about the besharmi, behayai, and all sorts of other words beginning with `` be``, my mother called the maid, hoping to shame her into mending her ways. When asked what she had been doing with the carpenter, the maid calmly replied, `` Ji mein uss ki godi main baithi hooi thi``. (I was sitting in his lap). My mother could only come up with an embarrassed, ``Don`t do it again``. Needless to say, the liaisons with the carpenter did not end. But what I have wondered about ever since is, in situations like these, how can you ever find the right thing to say? It`s all very well to rave and rant about morality, abstinence and the virtues of monogamy, but as far as these people are concerned, they really don`t know what the fuss is all about. So who are the real freaks here? Them or us? Is it they who are shameless or us who are prudish and hypocritical?
To be honest, when I moved back three years ago to the Land of the Pure, all moralistic and patriotic, I had not given much thought to the sex lives of servants, not that I had wanted to, either. But the simple reality of trying to run a house in Pakistan makes you realise there are only two options: the first is to turn a blind eye to what happens and the second is to try and ensure that the promiscuity does not exceed all levels of decency. Once you`ve tried the second option for a few months - like I did - you also realise that only the first option is available in reality.
When we first set up shop in Lahore, we hired Nasreen, the former friend of the carpenter who had since repented her sins and married the gardener`s brother. Our thinking was that the newly married couple would keep each other occupied. Wrong. After Nasreen had given birth to their first child, her husband decided that he wasn`t quite getting his manly dues. Being the understanding little wife that she was, Nasreen assisted him in a threesome with Shagufta, another young maid who eventually accused them of coercing her into it. We had no choice but to turn the young couple out. A week later, Shagufta was overheard telling someone that she missed Nasreen`s husband. Fickle? Naw! After all a woman has a right to change her mind, right?!
Next in line was another maid whose entire family swore she was so `` sharif`` it was only a matter of time before she became a saint. One month later, the chowkidar found the roof of her quarter littered with mithas. Further investigation revealed that the mithas came from the neighbours` houseboy who had been slinging fruit at her window to catch her attention. I sent my husband over to complain to the neighbours, only to learn that the flying fruit was apparently a standard signal for the neighbourhood boys and that there had been any number of visitors to our maid`s quarter.
By now, it was time for some serious introspection. Surely I was doing something wrong - why else would I be attracting all the nymphos of the Punjab? Had I been too lenient, too Westernised in my approach? Was it time for the danda method yet?
Apparently not. I found out that just about everyone around me had been faced with similar situations. The story that won hands down though, was of a friend`s grandmother, a dignified sari-clad lady, who ventured into the servants` quarters one night, looking for the chowkidar. After repeated calls, she opened the door of his room, only to be greeted with the entertaining sight of her butt-naked Pathan trying to push three hijras out of the roshan daan! Now tell me that`s not kinky.
Still, the consensus here is that no matter how shocked we may get at some of our employees` extra-curricular activities, the blind eye method operates best, at least until the problems become too severe to ignore. After all, most of us know nothing about these people who work in our homes. Their lives have always been about survival, about doing what it takes and getting their pleasures while they can. And our comfortable platitudes make no more sense to them than Marie Antoinette`s remarks did to the Paris mob. If they resent us for shoving our upper-class moralities down their throats, it`s for good reason. Many of our values are but frivolous luxuries. The working class simply do not have the stability and certainty that we take for granted. When it comes to entertainment, we have a slightly more varied palette of options than they do. So who are we to take away one of their primary sources of enjoyment?
And who am I kidding anyway? For short of chaining your household help, you have no chance of controlling ``what comes naturally``. Recently a family friend hired a grotesque, middle-aged, Quasimodo look-alike woman as a cook in the hope that she wouldn`t attract the wrong kind of attention. She has a one-armed lover down the street already.
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#114 Posted by Urstruly on October 29, 2000 7:58:31 pm
Abysmil
Now that you have seen that most of the people here have expressed their future intentions with a ``bulund khoodi``; may I suggest that you should now pose this question to the people who have already been through the ``pillow-talk`` with their spouses and find out where their ``Khoodi`` is at.
Now that you have seen that most of the people here have expressed their future intentions with a ``bulund khoodi``; may I suggest that you should now pose this question to the people who have already been through the ``pillow-talk`` with their spouses and find out where their ``Khoodi`` is at.
#115 Posted by qkakakhel on October 31, 2000 11:35:05 am
I think you get married on one date...and from that date on I will be faithfull to my wife and expect her to be so. You dont get married with ``retrospective effect``, its a contract drawn on a particular date and effective from that date. Because if you carry such old emotional baggage around in you marriage than I think your life would be hell, even from that date you would have so many worries that worring about past seems futile to me.
But I dont recomend pre-marital sex...as even its not found out, you will still feel guilty and comparisions comes in too...which is practically not good...what if you experiance was great and shes/hes a great lover and your spouse if lousy... your in for life-time regret.
But I dont recomend pre-marital sex...as even its not found out, you will still feel guilty and comparisions comes in too...which is practically not good...what if you experiance was great and shes/hes a great lover and your spouse if lousy... your in for life-time regret.
#116 Posted by ali5000 on October 31, 2000 11:35:05 am
the problem with losing your virginity is simple,
sex is like pringles, once you pop you can`t stop!!
krashid,
i am not worried how good others are, because i am so confeident in my abilities, that i am sure i can make it happen for whomever i`m with.
sex is like pringles, once you pop you can`t stop!!
krashid,
i am not worried how good others are, because i am so confeident in my abilities, that i am sure i can make it happen for whomever i`m with.
#117 Posted by ramyssysix on October 31, 2000 11:35:05 am
My name is Muhammad Waqar Saleem and I am an Electrical Engineer from Pakistan.
Well, the answer to the question that you have asked depends upon the approach that one has towards his life,the rules or the code that one follows.
If you talk about me or other guys of my sort, then the answer is that ``if it is the case with the bride then it really is a serious problem``. Infact, I would call it dishonesty and a moral weakness on the bride`s part.
The rules that I follow for living, tell me a strict way to deal with the problem and I certainly will deal with it that way. I am talking about my religion, Islam, that always has a natural and a most sensible way of approaching a problem.
Well, the answer to the question that you have asked depends upon the approach that one has towards his life,the rules or the code that one follows.
If you talk about me or other guys of my sort, then the answer is that ``if it is the case with the bride then it really is a serious problem``. Infact, I would call it dishonesty and a moral weakness on the bride`s part.
The rules that I follow for living, tell me a strict way to deal with the problem and I certainly will deal with it that way. I am talking about my religion, Islam, that always has a natural and a most sensible way of approaching a problem.
#119 Posted by Asim on November 1, 2000 2:00:07 am
``i am not worried how good others are, because i am so confeident in my abilities, that i am sure i can make it happen for whomever i`m with.``Yaar,
Dear Fellow,
You are not the only one living in a fool`s paradise. Apparently all men think and solemnly believe in this ``falsehood``, regardless of colour, creed, class. You have to agree some of them might be playing with the trutj.
Who am I? I am just your average, horny, devil`s advocate.
Asim :)
Dear Fellow,
You are not the only one living in a fool`s paradise. Apparently all men think and solemnly believe in this ``falsehood``, regardless of colour, creed, class. You have to agree some of them might be playing with the trutj.
Who am I? I am just your average, horny, devil`s advocate.
Asim :)
#120 Posted by Cheema on November 1, 2000 2:00:07 am
It was a good article. Besides religion, I think there is a big reason in abstaining from premarital and extramarital sex, and that is once confidence of a spouse is destroyed stability of family life is also destroyed. In a sexually promiscuous society divorce rate is high, and the whole environment of parental love and respect for elders is missing.
There have been numerous examples of feminists protesting against exploitation of marriage and living unmarried (yet having boy friends) all their life, in the end most complain of a sense of unfulfilment in life. Sex isn`t everything. Children and joys of family life are the reasons for living in the first place. And a stable family life ensures these.
Sexual restraint teaches a lot of things, and is not necessarily advocated by religion, Stoics practiced it although they were non believers, socialist philosophers also criticize free sex society and commercialization of woman.
There have been numerous examples of feminists protesting against exploitation of marriage and living unmarried (yet having boy friends) all their life, in the end most complain of a sense of unfulfilment in life. Sex isn`t everything. Children and joys of family life are the reasons for living in the first place. And a stable family life ensures these.
Sexual restraint teaches a lot of things, and is not necessarily advocated by religion, Stoics practiced it although they were non believers, socialist philosophers also criticize free sex society and commercialization of woman.
#121 Posted by husseinzahid on November 1, 2000 5:20:17 am
I won`t care much. I think that her past is History. And now she is with me and that all it matters.
#122 Posted by ziddi on November 11, 2000 4:45:19 pm
In reply to your question I have a lot to say.
The thing is my reaction would depend on the situation.
Marriage first of all is a journey in which you need someone whom you can trust. The first question ,therefore , I would ask my wife would be why she did not confide in me earlier?
why did she not come straight out and tell me honestly before we were married.
Secondly , I have been raised in Pakistan as a Muslim and I have been fed the same principles that you seem to have gotten but without the hindee movie dialogues!....
more or less implying the same. It was not till i was about 18 that i realized i could get away with it. HOWEVER I CHOSE NOT TO! I have tried to be a decent guy and keep myself for my wife (since thats the term you have used!).
I have been in the states for about 4 years all alone and have been doing well. I have no financial problems I just finished my BBA/MIS and am working , my point being getting laid is not that difficult. I have chosen not to follow that path which many of my other friends have. My roomate who is from Karachi thinks its time for moj mastee and who cares bout a wife that is still a milestone yet to come. You will not believe how many times i am mocked by other friends for not being into it. I dont go clubbing
or dating. Like you said i use the same formula
look but do not talk/touch and that helps me stay focussed.
Well, my answer I guess is If i could retain my virginity why could she not. In the event of the following answers i would be willing to look it over i.e in the event that she was raped or had been in a marriage earlier. However, even in that case i had a right to know.
You tell me how you would feel if the guy you ended up marrying told you he had been married or been with a woman before?
I dont know what destiny has in store for me but i just hope my wife is someone who has the guts to confide in me and come out in the open with me.
It should be my choice to do what i believe is right not hers. If i have stayed a virgin inspite of having every opportunity in the world i would expect the same from the girl who is to be my wife. I have a right to know what she has been upto. If she chose to do it with someone she made a choice and did what you believed was right. Dont i deserve the right to choose ??
So you tell me do i deserve to be lied to??
should i live with someone who has lied to me from the first day we met. There is always enough time to mention ones past and give the other person a choice.
I have been in love and have every intention of telling my wife to be before we actually get hitched that i was in love with someone, and mind u it was not physical at all. NOTHING PHYSICAL, it was over before it started!.....
So if i can retain my virginity and respect my wife and the institution of marriage and be a Muslim why cant a girl from the same culture have done the same.
Yes , however, if i marry a non muslim who has been with other before me. I would be ok with that because when she becomes a Muslim as per my religion she is as clean as a new born and her life has just begun. As for those of you who think it is biggoted of me to expect someone to convert their religion , well I am not leaving mine and kids get screwed up in families where parents practice and preach diff. believes.
Anyways, I hope this answers your question.I would definately like to hear more from you.
ZIDDI
#123 Posted by krashid on November 12, 2000 10:53:12 am
Ziddi #
Too Ziddi.
The first point i.e matter of trust is most important.
Too Ziddi.
The first point i.e matter of trust is most important.
#124 Posted by Alison judge on November 16, 2000 10:25:35 am
Dear A Bismil,
What a courageous and candid article, one that I`m sure strikes a chord with many readers. As someone who grew up in another culture but with similar pressures ( I am a pracicing Roman Catholic basd in the UK) I could relate deeply to much of what you were saying.
Ultimately this issue is, I believe, for you and you alone to have an opinion about. Any man who would think ``differently`` having discovered that the woman in his life has a sexual history is not a man to build a lie together with. Love, however it happens needs to be unconditional. A lifetime partnership needs to be strong, and double standards just don`t have space in such a bond.
Still trying to live out to the letter of my own faith the precepts that have been set out for me, in the face of such challenges as corrupt (and human!) priests and being viewed as essentially inferior or less pure for my gender by a sad minority of such clerics. That`s a challenge! But I wish you evrey happiness on your journey through life and am heartened by your thoughts on the topic. Ultimately, be true to yourself, discover yourself and treasure yourself. God willing the man in your life will delight in treasuring you, too.
With warmest wishes and salaams,
Alison Judge
What a courageous and candid article, one that I`m sure strikes a chord with many readers. As someone who grew up in another culture but with similar pressures ( I am a pracicing Roman Catholic basd in the UK) I could relate deeply to much of what you were saying.
Ultimately this issue is, I believe, for you and you alone to have an opinion about. Any man who would think ``differently`` having discovered that the woman in his life has a sexual history is not a man to build a lie together with. Love, however it happens needs to be unconditional. A lifetime partnership needs to be strong, and double standards just don`t have space in such a bond.
Still trying to live out to the letter of my own faith the precepts that have been set out for me, in the face of such challenges as corrupt (and human!) priests and being viewed as essentially inferior or less pure for my gender by a sad minority of such clerics. That`s a challenge! But I wish you evrey happiness on your journey through life and am heartened by your thoughts on the topic. Ultimately, be true to yourself, discover yourself and treasure yourself. God willing the man in your life will delight in treasuring you, too.
With warmest wishes and salaams,
Alison Judge
#125 Posted by savagely savvy on November 17, 2000 12:43:58 am
I`d be, ``cool, neither am I...lets just get it on baby``
#126 Posted by arsniper on November 19, 2000 9:17:18 pm
A nicely written piece - I should say as the author had me waiting for the bad news till the end. Thank God there was none.
Every parent tells their child similar stories to keep them on track. Treats and consciences are the biggest motivator to stay away from bad.
However there was an added pincher in my case.
I was taught there are four kind of people in the world. When offered bad they react differently:
The first kind says no I won`t do this - I will get caught.
The second, says my parents told me not do this
The third says, my parents will be hurt if they find out.
The fourth says, I will not do this because this is wrong.
As for the authors question asking men how would they feel? While I am not an authority to speak on all men of the world`s behalf, but I know I will be hurt, that while I guarded and protected myself the one I love didn`t.
Certain things in life we should guard, protect and cherish them to share with our solemates. That is what integrity, morality, and most of all Islam demands from us.
Yours Truly
Ahmed
Every parent tells their child similar stories to keep them on track. Treats and consciences are the biggest motivator to stay away from bad.
However there was an added pincher in my case.
I was taught there are four kind of people in the world. When offered bad they react differently:
The first kind says no I won`t do this - I will get caught.
The second, says my parents told me not do this
The third says, my parents will be hurt if they find out.
The fourth says, I will not do this because this is wrong.
As for the authors question asking men how would they feel? While I am not an authority to speak on all men of the world`s behalf, but I know I will be hurt, that while I guarded and protected myself the one I love didn`t.
Certain things in life we should guard, protect and cherish them to share with our solemates. That is what integrity, morality, and most of all Islam demands from us.
Yours Truly
Ahmed
#127 Posted by samuel on December 29, 2000 1:56:34 pm
Bismal,
just saw your article. That`s an interesting question, what would ``we men`` do if we were found out our respective wives were no virgins.
Hmm.. well, I do`nt know, I have`nt been in that situation yet, only for the fact that I`m yet to wed, however, upon reflex and perhaps some rage she probably won`t get lucky that night.. :( -
On second thoughts, one could perhaps pull out the semi-automatic, and splatter one`s brain. The underlying thought and meaning to this particular phrase definitely carries a pun unto it. Read it how you may!! :)
But, from what I understand of my sense of humour, I`d give it a second thought perhaps, worry about it a little, but then again, I decided to marry this person for who she is, and what she means to me then and there. Not for what her past was/is, what she may or may not have done.
It would be unfair to hold anything of the past against her. Now and the tomrrow has always counted more in my books, then yesterday and the past.
Cheers
just saw your article. That`s an interesting question, what would ``we men`` do if we were found out our respective wives were no virgins.
Hmm.. well, I do`nt know, I have`nt been in that situation yet, only for the fact that I`m yet to wed, however, upon reflex and perhaps some rage she probably won`t get lucky that night.. :( -
On second thoughts, one could perhaps pull out the semi-automatic, and splatter one`s brain. The underlying thought and meaning to this particular phrase definitely carries a pun unto it. Read it how you may!! :)
But, from what I understand of my sense of humour, I`d give it a second thought perhaps, worry about it a little, but then again, I decided to marry this person for who she is, and what she means to me then and there. Not for what her past was/is, what she may or may not have done.
It would be unfair to hold anything of the past against her. Now and the tomrrow has always counted more in my books, then yesterday and the past.
Cheers
#128 Posted by angelamine1 on January 8, 2001 7:39:55 pm
actually virginity is not such a big thing. i would love my bride to be experienced
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