The Other Asian Woman

rajanjua #44:

[[The usage of word ``slut`` was not in reference to sports Lubna Ji, but rather the following poetic lines you wrote...]]

Huh? I wrote? I never wrote those lines. I ``lifted`` them from that thingamajig Urstruly posted in his inter-act #5. Was just using them (along with the other lines) to prove a point - wanted to point out how subjective the whole issue was.

[[I personally don`t have an opinion but whether you like it or not, that`s what the perceptions of society are.]]

--Yes, we know - old story, sad story. Seriously though, we`re not very rational when it comes to ethics (or any other issue for that matter) are we?

[[Maybe you`ll change the perceptions of desi men.]]

--hey, why leave all the work for us?

scout #43:

yep, who the hell cares! i really don`t understand why such a big issue is made out of sex everytime. am reminded of that Marlene Dietrich quote: ``Sex. In America an obsession. In other parts of the world a fact.`` Just substitute ``America`` with ``Desiland`` or something.

btw, one slight problem dear - don`t have any 6 inch stilettos... got any I can borrow? or maybe i`ll join you whenever you get the chance...

Dear ylh

You write:

``Nasah

So when I wanted to argue you people wanted to ridicule, and now vulgarity is no substitute for an argument.

I believe, that I have proved with evidence and facts not arguments and mock tough rhetoric India`s crimes against Humanity... Do you want more of those facts?``

This is what I am trying to tell you, son -- that if you are full of facts and u R -- you should be the last person to use vulgarity to buttress any fair or unfair criticism -- only when you go bankrupt on argument then you start cussing people -- or -- killing people.

I am glad that you -- like urstruly -- are against the blasphemy ``law`` killings -- because to kill a person in response to an argument shows the ultimate bankruptcy of intellect.

You also write:

``I am going to be busy for the next few days... and I will come back with a fresh attitude.... or rather like a blank page. I will leave it entirely upto all of you how you want me to interact...``

If you`ll leave it to us as to “how we want you to interact`` -- then the first thing you have to do -- is to APOLOGIZE to Mrs Hamidm and Mr. Hamidm for that very crude, crass, bazaari comment.

I was stunned that you with so much knowledge and such a fluent pen -- can go down to such a low grade talk – so fast -- like a street kid -- just because Hamidm made fun of you? Can`t you appreciate a good satire -- where is your sense of humor, young man -- shame on you -- so go ahead APOLOGIZE like a MAN.

Aamir #14 and #19:

Looks like you`ve been with superficial ladies a bit too much! Tsk tsk, so you will never know a woman who would rather:

- Enjoy a good book than go to the mall.

- Sip coffee and write poetry, instead of making pointless chit-chat with her friends.

-Watch a classic, instead of fretting over clothes.

-Sketch a favorite O`keefe or Manet piece, in favor of going to moronic parties.

-Read Chowk and make attempts at correcting stereotypes men have about women!

Need I go on? Time to step out of bimboland

my friend! :)

The usage of word ``slut`` was not in reference to sports Lubna Ji, but rather the following poetic lines you wrote:

``Feel free to use me for immediate pleasure

I won`t assume it`s permanent by any measure.``

You should not let people use you for pleasure and then discard you-that`s quite sluty-like.

Some of your other sentiments are actually appreciated.

You say that its ok for men to have multiple partners, etc. but not for women. I personally don`t have an opinion but whether you like it or not, that`s what the perceptions of society are. It is ok for men to sow their seeds. Boys will be boys and all that, but not quite acceptable for women (to a certain degree) even in ``Amreeka``. That`s life. But don`t let that stop you. Maybe you`ll change the perceptions of desi men. I think secretly they all fanatsize about these wonderful women in perpetual heat. Who would`nt :-).

As far as Kaneez Begum`s so-called poem is concerned-its nothing but garbage & I am not talking about the usage of the wonderful depictions of Hamid Sahib taking a dump. She needs to take a few lit. classes. Most people on this chowk are too old to fall for the shock value. Sex is good-have it on your terms-don`t feel guilty about it-enjoy it, etc. are things you should have figured out by the time you were 18. So what`s the big bloody deal here. If your husband is an old fart/kill-joy, beardo-get rid of him-find another one-move on.

Having said that, what I don`t understand is why just stop at that. Since such great literary minds are assembled here, let me loosely translate Faiz for you: (pl. Maestro forgive me) There is a higher meaning in life beyond that elusive orgasm.

Why is it that, this is the only thing you want to imitate from the western society. I am still waiting for a desi Currie, a desi Fossey, a desi Earhart, a desi Dickinson (well I guess we have a couple of Dickinsons-I love Parveen Shakir-Now if you want to read some real sexy poetry, read this poem by her: ``Ecstacy``-the poem is in Urdu). Amreeka also provides you the freedom to take these challenges. If you have the rebel in you-make something of it.

Lubna #40,

WELL SAID! Let`s go burn our bras now.

Oops, I said bra. I`m going to be labeled a slut now, or worse still, a feminist slut.

But who the hell cares. Thanks for not ``daanting.`` :)

Lubna, Urstruly needs a beating with 6 inch stilletos. If you ever get the chance, I`ll help you.

Urstruly #41:

dheet insaan... grrrrr

RE: Lubna #40

Yep, that`s right. Kar lo jo karna hay.

rajanjua #33:

[[No, ofcourse not.The word that comes to my mind is slut. And I ofcourse have nothing against sluts.]]

Thank you for proving my point. It`s okay for guys to sleep around as much as they want to (now we can`t call you sluts can we?), but if a woman does it - she`s branded as a slut. It`s okay for guys to play ball games, but if a woman loves sports - oh she`s DIFFERENT, she likes sports. It`s okay for men to not spend much time on their appearance, if a woman doesn`t either - she`s probably a slob or not good looking you see and is just covering up her insecurity about this by pretending not to care. It`s okay for men to not care about their diet, but if a woman doesn`t either - haha, probably because she`s a fat cow. If a woman isn`t married - she MUST be WAITING for that ring - bichaari kay liyay rishta hi nahi aya hoga (something might be wrong with her). If a woman doesn`t go around bitching about others, back stabbing - oh wow, met very few women like her! If she claims to be ``rational, reasonable, and logical too`` - yeah right, dream on woman!

Why the differential treatment? Why the double standards when comparing women to men? Why assume women are so dumb that they`ll let you get away with this?

scout #38:

[[Hey, no one said anything about Ayesha`s (of cadaver fame) moral values in her interacts so why kaneez?

I guess, to desi minds (especially men`s), having sex with a guy labels you a slut while fantasizing about mutilating cadavers for chauvanistic is borderline ``ok.``]]

Bhai, don`t you realise? Women are EXPECTED to ``go psycho and threaten to kill`` (from that poem kindly posted by urstruly). And of course if a woman thinks it`s okay to have sex with a guy, she HAS to be a slut (as rajanjua very kindly reassured us).

(hey, aren`t i being nice? didn`t bite you for your chowk ka pehra... so far that is... bas ab jaao before i do! :))

re fuzair #28:

Lets do some hypothetical math here and please corect me if I am misstating your position.

Lets say the HBS class of 1990 had 400 men and 100 women. In the year 2010, 300 men end up as CXXs. So I would expect 75 women to be CXXs in the fortune 500. That may indeed be the case. Now let me state the question differently. How many of those 75 women would still have made it to be CXXs had they not gone to HBS or any of the other elite schools? My contention would be that most of them would still have made it. The argument is similar to one regarding the overwhelming presence of IIT graduates doing well in the US. They haven`t done well because of the IITs. They`ve done well because they are bright ambitious folks who would have made it anywhere by dint of hardwork and the luck of the genetic draw.

Its sometimes amusing to play these hypothetical games. For instance Benazir and her cohorts always make a big deal about her Oxford and Harvard credentials. I ask would it have made any difference had she gone to Alabama State? She, unfortuntely, would still have been afflicted on the hapless people of Pakistan if that were indeed the case. BTW this penchant for flaunting ones academic pedigree is something Benazir inherited from her father. ZAB once mocked Indira Gandhi for being an Oxford dropout. And we all know what happened there.

I agree that ``mommy track`` is probably the most difficult factor to measure in the case of the wage-gap. Women still can`t have it all. But then do men do?

later

-sac

Hey, no one said anything about Ayesha`s (of cadaver fame) moral values in her interacts so why kaneez?

I guess, to desi minds (especially men`s), having sex with a guy labels you a slut while fantasizing about mutilating cadavers for chauvanistic is borderline ``ok.``

I loved this poem, creative abilities used to perfection. (unlike the cadaver article)

dear kaneez

very intense.

wish i had the balls to publish it: bombay`s mullahs have appropriated them after a khatm-e-nabuwwat editorial last week.

perhaps next time.

regards

aakar patel

this is a poem, not a mission statement.

and yeah it might be, as feroz put it, bitter and disdainful, but it`s about a particular moment in time and a particular relationship not the story of my life. i have not, to my knowledge, ever disembowelled a man...nor do i intend to. so those of you who`ve expressed concern about my state of mind..thank you..but do remember that this is only a poem.

kaneez

Ya Elahi, protect us from the evil that lurks behind the veil.....

.....I am speechless, dumfounded, horrified and, as the father of two girls, quite distraught at the thought that our women can have such impure thoughts and then have the gall.... the gonads to air them in public.....another good reason for good Momins not to vote for the man who invented the internet ................it all started with giving them the right to drive..... yes ,that`s it.. they crawl out of the kitchen, get a whiff of na-mehram scent mixed with fresh desert air, and they forget that they are not supposed to talk about this stuff, much less enjoy it or, god forbid, indulge in it - unless it is for the sole purpose of procreation, or to serve him who was created in His image......it is true that the female of the white race, because of pork consumption, is libidinous and promiscuous and actually enjoys the horrid act of fornication - but our women... never in a million lunar years would I have thought that they would stoop to that level ...... Brothers, the world is coming to an end .....

........ oh, what the heck - for those of you gals who are kind of bitter-sweet about this whole thing and talk about disembowelling men and worse...as usual, Jerry Garcia has this profound piece of advice for you :

Well, I was feelin` so bad, asked my family doctor `bout what I had,

I said, ``Doctor, Doctor, Mister M.D., can you tell me, what`s ailing me?``

He said, ``Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah``

All you need, all you really need: good lovin`

Because you got to have lovin` (good lovin`)

Everybody got to have lovin` (good lovin`)

A little good lovin` now baby, good lovin`.

.......... between the Koran and the Grateful Dead I have the answer to everything that bedevils mankind (and womankind)........

In just one week we`ve been through virginity,
posssible stimulation via corpses and now Kaneez
here provides the ``icing`` on the current CHOWK page
.
No matter how troublesome some of her writing,
Kaneez at least stays shockingly predictable if
one has ventured through her articles here.

So she does not easily fit the ``Pakistani`` mold of womanhood (whatever that is, I`m sure that someone else can respond to that) but in her
desire to be heard via such bold writing she exposes brutal honesty something that we ``Desis``
may find uncomfortable.

Kaneez has been quite articlate here and adds a
different flavor to our artistic palate.
But after reading this, one also wants to wish her
well in her quest to ``find herself``, and to let
her know that not everything in life has to be
complicated.
Write on!

Ras

``Feel free to use me for immediate pleasure

I won`t assume it`s permanent by any measure.]]

I could relate to all that..... does that make me less of a woman and more of a man?``

No, ofcourse not.The word that comes to my mind is slut. And I ofcourse have nothing against sluts.

Very nice rhyme and rythm. Would have liked it better if there were fewer references to the toilet though.