Aap Amrika Main Hotay Hain?? (Do You Live In America)

Mr Hashmi, I havent congratulated you on your article, let me do it now, I enjoyed reading it because like it or not its true. I see it in the fact that 80% of those who came here from my old high school have chosen to return, even though they are making a fraction of what they wouldve been making here. I see it in the two doctors I personally know who have chosen to return. I see it in a professional working for Ford making 150,000 a year but dreams of one day returning to Pakistan when he feels he is financially secure to do so. Infact, I havent met anyone who came from back home who wouldnt go back given the first chance. Many people feel they cant go back because of the risk of being seen as a failure after all they went through to get here. The feeling of isolation out here is immense. The American dream is to be married to your career for the majority of your life until you make it into the ``big time``. There is no room for family and friends in between, you have to choose one or the other. Most people who chase the ``dream`` realize they missed out on their family, friends, basically their lives too late, and thats a something most asians usually arent prepared to go through. Its a culture thing.

Rdesikan #67 I agree that we need to speak out against hate-mongers, and there are people (including myself) who have done so on the internet. While on the chowk you do come across people who are quick to start a race to the bottom in terms of cross-border put-downs and insults, this is more than compensated for by more intelligent discussions that also take place.

Given the miserable conditions in which the millions of have-nots live in the sub-continent, I think the ``haves`` (which should include everyone posting to chowk) of South Asia need to be responsible and try and promote better understanding. We may not achieve much, but any step in this direction is worth the effort, and it is certainly better than idle one-upmanship.

(I have not gone to read Muhajir`s posts since that would leave me no time to do anything else with my life - but may try over the weekend to check out what you recommend).

re. #63

Tariq,

If what you say is even half true, and you are enjoying a reasonably decent living with your family -- and have no desire for ``adventure`` and risk at this point in your life-- I would strongly, nay very strongly, urge you to not give in to the pressure by others to make such a great change. A wise old man once told me that ``it is very difficult for folks to adjust to the change in lifestyle/culture after 30``. I smiled and thought ``well.. maybe for some``. Now, a year into my stay in the US, I still feel isolated and disconnected. My decision to stick it out in the very demanding IT field is based pretty much on my very real financial concerns back in Pakistan. If you have none, and have no ideological attraction toward the West, why give up that most important thing in life -- peace of mind (assuming ...)?

regards,

PM



Re. Ali -- haven`t read the article yet... will give my two cents worth later :)

Lubna #50: Chuckle!

``Oh dear... Jay, what if you`re reincarnated as a Jihadi in Pakistan? ``

Ha Ha Ha! This is good! The theory is that what you will be in your next birth will be based on what and how you live your life in this. So, if Jay is going to be reincarnated as a Jihadi, it will be his doing only! By the same token, I wonder what all those good Jihadis would have metamorphosed into, if they were born elsewhere, away from the Jihadi idealogies?

Dear Jay and others,

Jay mentions General P.M becoming the bearded general, implying that being bearded is something bad as in people who have beards are somehow evil; stereotyping or what. It’s funny how everybody, especially Jay is a blind bi *ch to the media. Tom Hanks has recently got a beard, one that is large enough to hide an oak tree and a Boeing 747 inside it and does the media decide to portray it negatively? Does it call him a Fundo. What name does it give to the bush…

…A Biblical beard.

Omar Phoenix

what up jaybird..all i gotta say to ur constant broken record ramblings is that atleast no mullah or party backed by religion has ever recieved any popular vote or come to power. How could that be in a nation full of jihadis? Contrast that with the BJP in India whose main power base and ideology is tied to hindu fundamentalism. You like scenarious and making bets huh, well then heres one for ya. In the next election, faced with a strong secular opposition, the BJP makes strong overtures to fundamentalists such as the VHS. Psycho Bal Thackeray, in return for his support for the government, is made an important minister in the federal government. The very next day he announces that the main masjid in Delhi, the Taj Mahal and the Sikh golden temple, are all built on sites where hindu temples first stood. A frenzied mob of psycho hindutvas starts gathering over the weeks, as do mobs of the minorities under target. India witnesses the worst bloodbath it has seen since the partition, foriegners with their techy dollars make a dash for the exit, the movements in Kashmir and Assam step up the tempo, the army takes over in a last ditch attempt to salvage the situation but its too late. Lights out im afraid.

By the way, for those who thought I was being snooty in my article when I referred to people`s poor english, let me ask you this:

What is the language of communication and commerce in the US?

Is it realistic to think that someone who can`t string 2 coherent sentences in english together will be able to survive (much less thrive) here? This is not my opinion.It was pointed out to me by a USIA official when I was still in Pakistan.She said she would have people come to see her and say they wanted to do their `Masters` or `Doctorate` in America and couldn`t speak to her in fluent english! She thought it totally incredible.

I make no apologies for speaking fluent english and it has been a huge help in my work here.

...pls. read `your` instead of you ...

jay #64

You reply is at the Speaker`s Corner #179.

---t

Re #66 Ram6

`A lot of people say, ``If they get the same pay at home, what they get here (US), they would not wait a second to stay here``.`

My point exactly.

Thank you for the compliment.

Re; Reply #: 65 jay

Everyone has their opinions.I prefer to remain optimistic.

Re: EST Reply #: 63 Tariq_jamil

Dear Tariq;

Since you are a Computer Professional , you would probably do well here or in Canada but at what cost? If you would like to trade your home/friends/family/community for more money, than by all means, do so, but let it be your own, well thought out decision, not just a `bher chaal`.Make no mistake, I make a lot more money here than I could in Pakistan at this stage of my career BUT I talk to my parents and my brother once a week for 1/2 hour with one eye on the clock (at 55 cents a minute), I see my old friends and family once a year (if that), and the sense of isolation is constant.This is nothing pathological, this is just the prevailing mode of existence here, people here are individualists, not communalists. An illustrative comment: a co-worker told me that the happiest he feels is when he is fishing (a totally solitary activity).

You can e-mail me directly at hashmiali@hotmail.com

Re:Reply #: 62 fhn

I`m sorry if I didn`t clarify this but Rs 5000-6000(or thereabouts) is the entry level pay for a new graduate, someone who is 23 or 24.Since they will still (presumably) be living with their parents, it would be just `pocket money` and nobody who is bright or industrious has to be satisfied with making that all their lives.When I graduated med.school in Lahore in 1992, we were paid Rs.2500 per month which was the average back then.Of course no one can maintain an independent establishment on that, but nobody is really expected to do that in Pakistan straight out of school anyway.

Re: Reply #: 59 mayhem

Touche`

I agree entirely.

Re Tahmed

Even if one does not support what is going on back home, your response that you not ashamed by it is very ostrich-like. The problems aren`t going to go away, but if you spoke your mind and many, many more like you did, perhaps the chances of change would appear to be a wee bit better.

RE your hope that Pakistan will clean up the mess, I certainly hope so, for a better neighborhood makes better neighbors, but did you read the transcript of a recent interview given by El Mushy to Ranan Lurie of the Wash Post that was reproduced in the Dawn and posted in a few boards by Mohajir, I believe. If you haven`t as yet read it, please do.

Because if that is the opinion of the most moderate face of your junta, your hope is no more than a distant pipe dream. See what happened to the blasphemy issue? Zia opened the proverbial Pandora`s box by playing with your nuts and there is no going back. Things are only going to get progresssively, or rather, regressively worse and nothing can be done considering the only powerful authority left, the army, is in cahoots with the wierdo beardos. Show me any country that has reclaimed a more secular outlook after religious fundamentalism. Often the way out is coopting the extreme elements with the net result of the regime moving harder to the right. The middle east is littered with such wrecks.

Re: ``I think we need to separate our image of the other country from the nuts of the other country. The vast majority of the people in both countries have better things to do than go around with hatred for people whom they have never seen and who have done them no harm. And one cannot blame the people of either country for the Kashmir mess - it is a failure of politicians in both countries to resolve this issue in a civilized manner.`` couldn`t agree with you any more.

Ali Hashmi,

After reading your article, I felt as I was reading about India. Eventhough our countries have our differences but the phenomenon across the boundaries are the same.

Today, every young Indian wants to be in the US, they are all looking of ways to come here. I have spent 7 years in the US and talked to a lot of Indians of all ages.

I have observed the general trend of how people feel. The common theme is ``I want to retire in India or Pakistan``, there is a lot of isolation in this country and culture that people from the subcontinent are not used to.

A lot of people say, ``If they get the same pay at home, what they get here (US), they would not wait a second to stay here``.

Our friends at home never get to learn about that side of the struggle, since when people visit home, they don`t try to portray or talk about that struggle, so what everybody sees is the affluence of their friends in the US.

I really enjoyed reading your article and totally agree with you on what you wrote.

THE EXODUS,

The mass migration of pakistanis to other countries or a promised heaven should be the proof enough for the chowk pakistanis to throw in the towel and prepare for the requium. The question is how the end will be and can have bets on it, to make some bucks on anything, the amerika style.

After musharaff will be a quasi-military-political govt, and in two years time will be the bearded general. Then will be the iraquisation. The end. Any bets.

NON-FATAL ATTRACTION,

Lubna #50

Thank you for the post, that is a good one, at last there is a pakistani who understands my exagerated invectives and the acerbic hyperboles for what it is, just that.

temporal,

It is pathetic to see you as a champion of free speach while you accused me of sabotaging the indo-pak peace accord which you would have delivered if it were not for me. Learn, grow up, dont try to become `some one` on the chowk. amen.

regards

jay.

Rdesikan #49 I had, as I mentioned in my previous post, to run off for dinner and am now back to complete my response.

You write: ``I`m in fact ashamed of some of the crap done by the BJP nuts and the coopting of religion into politics, but on that issue alone, which of the two countries is more backward? ``

I think both countries are endowed with a roughly equal share of nuts, and you dont need to be ashamed of BJP nuts just as I dont need to be ashamed of mullah nuts (since neither one of us is responsible for their actions). India is ahead, I agree, in terms of legal separation of religion and state, in my view. But we will catch up, I think, soon as we can clean up the mess created by Zia.

The important question is: I think we need to separate our image of the other country from the nuts of the other country. The vast majority of the people in both countries have better things to do than go around with hatred for people whom they have never seen and who have done them no harm. And one cannot blame the people of either country for the Kashmir mess - it is a failure of politicians in both countries to resolve this issue in a civilized manner.

Dear Ali,

You say that you are amazed when students graduating from one of the better business schools in Lahore want to get paid more than Rs. 5-6000 a month? Why are you surprised? In dollar terms, that amount works out to be about a hundred US dollars a month. In more practical terms, it adds up to about a months worth of petrol. After 12 years of primary education, a BA and a graduate degree, do you really think that people should be grateful if they make enough money to drive to work? How are they supposed to even think about independence, about a family, about all the rest that life entails on 5000 rupees a month? And if it is not possible for even the better educated and more talented young Pakistanis to make a decent living, what hope do the rest of the 140 million have?

I`m not saying that those students necessarily deserve to make Bill Gates kind of money but remember that a business school graduate in the US will, by and large, make enough not only to cover his petrol expenditures but also enough to cover his rent and living expenses. Is it any wonder then that those students all dream of moving to America?