Bigotry, Racism and American Media

Dear Bilalji :

I based my statement about the CIA and drugs in Afghanistan not on an extensive search of Internet sources, but what I remembered from the Reagan years and from discussions on soc.culture.afghanistan.

So, I may well be wrong.

As far as I know, the CIA got all the funds it wanted during all of the Reagan years. Congress tied strings to the money only in the case of Nicaragua, and the attempts to work around those limitations is what lead to the Iran-Contra scandal. [ The money was not to be used to overthrow the Sandinistas, as per Congress. ]

Subsequent to the Soviets withdrawal from Afghanistan is the first time Congress cut the CIA`s budget. [This is the fact that I checked on the Internet].

I do not think the CIA would have risked more trouble with Congress than necessary, and in the case of Afghanistan, it was not necessary.

-arun gupta

Re: Amit

``Nor are they converting to Judaism to join Israel, unlike many of our ancestors who converted to Islam to get a good life``

a) I don`t know about your`s, but my ancestors did not capitulate to the sword and convert....so ``our`s`` isn`t accurate when you refer to Indians collectively

b) Most of them did not convert to ``get a good life`` but were forced to under the sword (including the ancestors of many of the Pakis posting here). Things were a lot different in India a few centuries ago than they are now (I wasn`t there to know that but that`s what the records show).

``Palestinians have been systematically displaced and brutalized with the power of a state which is supported by the most powerful nation in the world. I am sure, you know why the US supports the Israelis.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad``

Posts #110, #25, and several others -

There is a country called Tibet in South Asia. Tibetans have been systematically displaced and brutalized with the power of the most powerful nation in Asia. I am not sure, why the Pakistanis/people of Paki origin who are doing a verbal equivalent of drawing themselves to their full height in shock and pronouncing their noble & humanitarian concerns to the world on the Chowk have not condemned the Chinese occupation & brutalities in Tibet. This too is an ongoing problem, btw, and its happening in our neighborhood.

[Courtesy gymno]

-----

There are quite a few civil rights groups in India - they thrive, among other things, on fighting for & highlighting the downtrodden and minority plight.

Some offer help and assistance to people who try to brave out of the unreasonable social stipulations imposed by their near and dear. For all the commitment and voice these groups have, they hesitate, if not downright avoid, to extend a helping hand to people from the Muslim community. I am talking only about the social issues here - these groups go to their aid whenever the entire (Muslim) community supports their involvement.

Shah Bano case, a slap in the face of the women`s rights, is but one such example where the politicians gained in the absence of strong Muslim community/social voices. Why is it that only the religious voices outperform others among Muslims in non-Muslim majority areas in the world?

And again, why is it that nothing else stirs the Muslim voice more than when the Muslims are percieved to be at the recieving end of a Muslim-nonMuslim tussle anywhere in the world? (I am just adding to the umpteen posts asking this question till now, but that may be because all that is given as a reply is the chagrin expressed at our callousnous.)

You guys dont just overdo the religion bit. You beat it to death. And then some. All this wailing would be ridiculous if it had not been so pathetically real.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27839-2000Nov6.html
Independent TV Gives Arabs A New Perspective on the News
By Howard Schneider
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday , November 7, 2000 ; Page A22

Re: Ahmadb #100

I think we need to keep the time frame in mind as well. During the 1980s, I believe it was Ahmad Shah Masud`s people who were smuggling drugs to earn money to buy weapons with which to fight the Soviets. This was because Zia and Akhtar Abdur Rehman insisted on total control over the actual arm`s being supplied to the mujahideen and they favored their own factions in the muhahideen (Hekmatyar and the other pakhtoon loonies) rather than ones that were actually doing much of the fighthing (Masud and some others). This was because, I believe, that Masud and company, being Darri speaking Shias, were much closer to Iran than to Pakistan. They did not trust the Sunni Pakistanis (mainly Punjabis and the hated Pathans)actually in charge of the arms supply and the Pakistanis did not trust the disliked Shia, Darri speakers either. The US/CIA was extremely unhappy about Zia`s choice of supporting groups that were doing a minimal amount of fighting but he made it absolutely clear that this was the price of Pakistani support. The CIA and State Department (career) officials would probably have played tougher with Pakistan (they knew that Pakistan needed them more than they needed Pakistan) if Casey and Reagan weren`t smitten with Zia and obsessed with getting the Russians bogged down in Afghanistan. So if heads were turned the other way, it was because Masud was the only one really fighting the Russians. The Peshawar based groups (almost all Pathans) were content to make money off the whole affair.

So Masud and Co saw no choice but to smuggle drugs to earn money for their weapons. I`m not saying that there were no Pathans involved, of course there were, but that Masud was protecting opium growers and running drug labs in the Panjsher. Once in Pakistan, of course, the PakArmy and especially the Air Force, got involved in the smuggling as well. Saeed Qadir, ex-QMG and head of the NLC, Anwar Shamim, former COAS, and Fazle Haq, ex-Governor NWFP, were implicated in this up to their necks. For example, after his retirement, Zia nominated Shamim as the Pakistani Ambassador to Canada and the Canadians respectfully declined the honor of having one of the world`s largest drug smugglers on their soil.

I think it is only after the US aid to the mujahideen dried up (i.e., post 1988) that non-Masud, Pathan (or Pakhtun if you will) groups really got into the drug trade in a big way. Now its a Taliban state monopoly. So its quite unfair to blame the CIA directly for the drug trade in Afghanistan and Pakistan. As far as Noam Chomsky goes, the man is a brilliant linguist and he is right about some other things as well but he is absolutely paranoid when it comes to the CIA so I would take what he says with a huge grain of salt.

Regards.

Re:Viking#107

I think it is unfair to look at the Israeli Palestinian conflict as a jew vs muslim conflict. The Palestinians are not like the Taliban, they are quite liberal, some of them are very well educated and they are tolerant of christians. In fact, the PLO charter calls for a secular, democratic country in Palestine and not a islamic state.

Right now, the Palestinians seem to be commiting mass suicide by trying to attack the Israeli forces, but you cannot really blame them. They have a completely hopeless existence with nothing to lose. The Israelis tried hard to expel and liquidate them because they wanted their land. When they failed, they decided on a peace process which basically ended up creating enclaves that look like the native Indian reservations in USA. Moreover, in spite of their wealth, the Israelis did not encourage investment in Palestinian territories. No wonder the situation is so bad.

Still I have to admire the Palestinians for their courage. Unlike our hindu ancestors (the so called martial races of Pakistan/North India), they are not simply capitulating or surrendering their dignity. Nor are they converting to Judaism to join Israel, unlike many of our ancestors who converted to Islam to get a good life. The Palestinian situation does not have many parallels with Kashmir because Kashmiris have not lost their lands. Our Kashmir conflict is a proxy for the ideological battle between India and Pakistan on whether hindus and muslims can live together. Otherwise, India is quite content on leaving the Kashmiris alone with their own land and resources, as long as they remain nominally Indian. This is quite different from Israel which wants the land desperately.

fairdinkum@108:

[Isn`t it what they all say?

I am not racist, but..... I am not a redneck, but....]

i agree, but........ :-)

In response to Viking (Reply # 107)
Dear Viking:

Palestinians have been systematically displaced and brutalized with the power of a state which is supported by the most powerful nation in the world. I am sure, you know why the US supports the Israelis.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ahmadb #104

Dear Bilal,

Thanks for the info.. I will add some more to yours later today.

Viking #107

``i feel sorry for those kids as much as you do. but....``

Viking,

Isn`t it what they all say?
I am not racist, but..... I am not a redneck, but....

#99

The perils of letting anyone & everyone having ``freedom`` to express themselves are that in a number-democracy intellect & learning is dragged down to the lowest base and is thus--- debased.

Ghalib expressed it more aptly:

Hurr bul-havis nay husn prastee shiaar kee

ubb abrooay shaivay ahle nazar gayee.

translation(colloquial): Now that every Tom,Dick & Harry is lusting after Beauty,The dignity/goodwill of the connoisseur is nought.

Why this pre-amble?

Please note that Mormons are just that MORMONS,they do not claim to be CHRISTIANS.Hence there is NO Problem.SO much so that None of the christian sects call themselves christians(They are officially Catholics,Protestants,methodists,evangelicals etc etc---Pope is the head of the Catholic Church,Queen is the head of the Anglican church,Orthodox:Greek,Russian,Coptic,etc etc never claim to be THE Christian church--it is just left to be assumed & understood that they are so.

The Alawites,Nusseirees,Mehdvees do NOT claim to be Muslims & hence not bothered by anyone.

If you claim what you are not,then there IS a problem.Just try to copy even the semblence of a brand-name & logo and watch and smell the sh *t landing on your face by a ``respectable`` multi-national.

Always THINK first.

samijuan @80:

[tell it to the moms of 25+ palestinian kids who were shot in the heads for throwing rocks.]

``...for throwing rocks``. hmmmm... now, every palestine parent would only readily tell you that the israeli forces are savages who could only answer stones with bullets irrespective of whether it comes from an adult or child. don`t you agree ? then, how come these kids came to be hurling rocks at the israelis in the first place ? i mean, who is responsible for exposing them to the israelis knowing only too well that their lives are in danger ?

i feel sorry for those kids as much as you do. but if this is how you care about your own children, what value can you be expected to attach to others` lives ?

RDesikan #99

I can just smile on your preaching of self interest.

What I am doing is taking care of my family or doing my job. You can call it self interest or responsibility or whatever name you want to give. And I am not lacking behind.

Saying this, I belong to the social structure and form my opinion according to my training, education and outlook.And I cannot do otherwise because no inspiration comes to me from God.

The first premise is all human are equal regardless of race, color, caste or creed. And better is one who is better.

This needs qualification. Praying and all other rituals are between God and man and it will be between them to decide what is what. But relation between two human being and human race is the most important criteria for me to judge, who is better.

Whether it is the rights of christian South African or Muslim palestinian or Muslim Kashmiri, it does not matter. Neither it is other way round that a non-Muslim has rights and Muslims have no rights.

As far as Qadiani problem problem is concerned. I see it as this. Qadianis are most educated and well off community. Their problem is religious. The main Muslim body don`t consider them Muslim (for some religious reasons) and they insist on calling themselves Muslims. They should settle their matter where it belongs. In scholarly terms.

The problem is not that they cannot pray. The problem is they want to call their place of praying as Mosque. The problem is not they have different beliefs, the problem is they insist on calling it Islam. So once they take back their position and settle their problem with Muslim scholars that they are Qadiani and not Muslim, all their problem will be solved. In this situation, I don`t know what position I should take. On religious terms, I don`t consider them Muslim. On scholarly term, I think it is between the scholars of two groups to settle the issue.

In response to macgupta (Reply # 100)

DRUGS, AFGHANS, & CIA
Dear Arun:

I am surprised that you, as a person who fascinates me for his command over all kinds of internet sources, was unable to find the following.

http://www.deoxy.org/usdrugs.htm
“Later, as the CIA shifted its activities to Pakistan and Afghanistan, the drug racket boomed there.” Noam Chomsky

http://burn.ucsd.edu/archives/ats-l/1996.Nov/0007.html
1980s to early 1990s, AFGHANISTAN
by William Blum
“CIA-supported Moujahedeen rebels engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported government and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The Agency`s principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the leading druglords and leading heroin refiner. CIA-supplied trucks and mules, which had carried arms into Afghanistan, were used to transport opium to laboratories along the Afghan-Pakistan border. The output provided up to one half of the heroin used annually in the United States and three-quarters of that used in Western Europe. US officials admitted in 1990 that they had failed to investigate or take action
against the drug operation because of a desire not to offend their Pakistani and Afghan allies. [17] In 1993, an official of the DEA called Afghanistan the new Colombia of the drug world [18].”

17. Blum, p. 351; Tim Weiner, Blank Check: The Pentagon`s Black
Budget, New York: Warner Books, 1990, pp. 151-2
18. Los Angeles Times, Aug. 22, 1993

http://www.webstories.co.nz/seek/deamon/epis2.html
OneWorld Magazine presents “DEALING WITH THE DEAMON” An Aspire Films Production
“From almost zero production before the Afghan/Soviet war began in 1979, the Golden Crescent of Afghanistan and Pakistan has grown into the world`s largest producer of heroin. This year it will produce 300 to 500 tons of pure white powder with a wholesale value in the United States of $50 billion. According to State Department figures, there is a current glut in supply, with worldwide production ten times the level it was in the 1970s. despite massive outlays on interdiction and other means to control it. . . . The story that is revealed, follows the simple but expedient formula that drugs (and other long term problems like Islamic terrorism) took a back seat when the priority was winning a war against the evil Soviet Empire. At its more complex level, the story of heroin in the Golden Crescent involves connections between the CIA, the ISI, Mujahideen, the collapsed BCCI bank and Pakistan`s nuclear weapons program.”

http://www.paknews.org/articles/1999/apr/art1apr-13.html
A very interesting and informed article by a Pakhtoon Pakistani. He is a great supporter of the Talibans.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

Arug Gupta #100

“I have never seen that allegation made elsewhere.”

Arun, you ain’t seen nothin yet! :)
Mate, let’s call a spade a spade… I actually concur with Mateen to some extent on that. US should take her fair share of the blame for the mess they have left behind... You guys are still new to the game of ‘friendship’ with US. You’ll soon find out how your new ‘friends’ actually operate.

You are right that western powers were falling over each other to give us money to fight the soviets, but the amount of money needed to fight the soviets and support millions of Afghan refugees was humongous; there was no way to raise that kind of money through legitimate grants and aid. Congress never approved any money for Pakistan to fight the soviets. I still remember Zia-ul-Haq’s interview on American television… He was asked: who is supporting the Mujahideen to fight the soviets? Zia replied, “Allah is helping them”.. the question was rephrased: which foreign country is helping Afghan Mujihideen? Zia replied, “We [Pakistanis] are providing support”.. USA was never mentioned during the interview.

Ok, let me dig up some more info. on that drugs-for-arms/finances thing, and give you something concrete.

Re: #101 baccha-zaeef

Hahaha....thanks for the laugh...work was getting to me until I read your post.

But seriously, which Madrassah are you writing from? Do they have an ample supply of tranquilizers and Prozac? Do you need me to send some? Don`t hesitate to ask.

Best of luck,

RS