Omar Phoenix November 19, 2000
#29 Posted by abskii on July 5, 2006 3:24:55 am
an interesting read, descriptive yet not totally repulsive. i look forward to reading more!!
#28 Posted by farangi_kush on December 6, 2000 1:01:43 pm
Omarphoenix:
I`m terribly sorry for this oversight & delay on my part.
You will find this story by Manto 1)Mantorama-a complete Manto collection or 2)Any good Manto anthology.
Manto is superb,and this story is one of his best!
Happy reading.You might need some help and you`ll get it aplenty where you are.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
I`m terribly sorry for this oversight & delay on my part.
You will find this story by Manto 1)Mantorama-a complete Manto collection or 2)Any good Manto anthology.
Manto is superb,and this story is one of his best!
Happy reading.You might need some help and you`ll get it aplenty where you are.
__________________________________________________
wassalaam
#27 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 25, 2000 5:12:14 pm
Dear Farangi_Kush,
regarding Hathak, I`m afraid I haven`t. Please let me know what it`s about or where I might buy it from. The most I read in Urdu were Urdu jasoosi digests. I was 7 or 8 and though I couldn`t read Urdu, I couldn`t understand most of the words. The `best` (and I use the term very loosly)Urdu I could read and understand was Umro Ayaar by Mazhar Kleem M.A (my hero), Inspector Jamshedi and Imran series. Good old childhood days when my world was confined to jadoogars and zambeels.
Thank you and take care.
Omar Phoenix
regarding Hathak, I`m afraid I haven`t. Please let me know what it`s about or where I might buy it from. The most I read in Urdu were Urdu jasoosi digests. I was 7 or 8 and though I couldn`t read Urdu, I couldn`t understand most of the words. The `best` (and I use the term very loosly)Urdu I could read and understand was Umro Ayaar by Mazhar Kleem M.A (my hero), Inspector Jamshedi and Imran series. Good old childhood days when my world was confined to jadoogars and zambeels.
Thank you and take care.
Omar Phoenix
#26 Posted by farangi_kush on November 25, 2000 1:30:22 pm
tahmed:#25
An Indian friend(a devout practising hindu) was telling me the other day about the scenario at railway platform in Bihar.
Between the arrival of the trains,the platform edge becomes a urinal & toilet.Bums can be seen across the other side and a pissing symphony is on.
Now this frieds` brother was `under pressure` too,but being shy(or `educated`--take your pick) would not follow such `desi` behaviour.So when the train arrived he boarded it simply to go to the toilet inside.In the melee my friend thought that his brother couldn`t find his way back onto the platform and has moved on with the train.
Lo and behold!when the crowd thinned he saw his brother returning from the other end of the platform,with a broad relaxed grin writ on his face.
In search of a vacant toilet he had kept on walking inside the train towards the engine.When the train started moving he jumped out.
He didn`t elaborate whether he was satisfactorily `done`.
__________________________________________________
OmarPhoenix:
Have you read ``Hathak`` by Manto?
_______________________________________________
WASSALAAM
An Indian friend(a devout practising hindu) was telling me the other day about the scenario at railway platform in Bihar.
Between the arrival of the trains,the platform edge becomes a urinal & toilet.Bums can be seen across the other side and a pissing symphony is on.
Now this frieds` brother was `under pressure` too,but being shy(or `educated`--take your pick) would not follow such `desi` behaviour.So when the train arrived he boarded it simply to go to the toilet inside.In the melee my friend thought that his brother couldn`t find his way back onto the platform and has moved on with the train.
Lo and behold!when the crowd thinned he saw his brother returning from the other end of the platform,with a broad relaxed grin writ on his face.
In search of a vacant toilet he had kept on walking inside the train towards the engine.When the train started moving he jumped out.
He didn`t elaborate whether he was satisfactorily `done`.
__________________________________________________
OmarPhoenix:
Have you read ``Hathak`` by Manto?
_______________________________________________
WASSALAAM
#25 Posted by tahmed321 on November 24, 2000 9:35:42 pm
Omarphoenix #18 I went back and read your article as you suggested. I am glad I did. You deal with two important topics - the misery of living in poverty, including the debasement of one of the finest of human emotions (love and attraction between a man and a woman). I think you there is certainly a novel (or several novels) to be written here (before it is too late and 20th century third world city slums disappear hopefully just like the 19th century slums in Europe).
Incidentally, your describe ``All were squatting; their saris, lunghis and polyester trousers bunched around their knees. All had their buttocks exposed. All were shitting...``
Interestingly, this is a scene of Mumbai that I also so: I had changed planes there, and as the plane was getting ready early morning at the runway to take off, I saw the same scene - clearly visible from the plane - at a slum next to the airport. My first reaction was disgust at seeing this early morning. Then I thought that, but for the Grace of God, I could be participating in that group activity.
The moral of the story: Per John Donne (I believe it was he who noted this) a bit of us dies with the death of any person. Similarly, in the context of your write up and the great poverty around us in South Asia, a bit of us (the relatively well--off) gets debased with the debasement of any person.
Incidentally, your describe ``All were squatting; their saris, lunghis and polyester trousers bunched around their knees. All had their buttocks exposed. All were shitting...``
Interestingly, this is a scene of Mumbai that I also so: I had changed planes there, and as the plane was getting ready early morning at the runway to take off, I saw the same scene - clearly visible from the plane - at a slum next to the airport. My first reaction was disgust at seeing this early morning. Then I thought that, but for the Grace of God, I could be participating in that group activity.
The moral of the story: Per John Donne (I believe it was he who noted this) a bit of us dies with the death of any person. Similarly, in the context of your write up and the great poverty around us in South Asia, a bit of us (the relatively well--off) gets debased with the debasement of any person.
#24 Posted by lubna on November 23, 2000 8:10:00 pm
Omar #22:
[I get all charged up and go out on this painting/ writing binge. Then 3 hours later, when I’ve calmed down, I read/look at the work, get disturbed and end up deleting/ painting over it.]
--Heheh.. know the feeling. Not that I write or paint - I don`t - I`m talking about my actions, esp what I say/write to others sometimes when I`m all ``charged up``. Later I feel awkward, embarassed even, and initially there`s sometimes a feeling of regret as well. However, the regret soon dissipates if the repercussions are positive (and most of the times they are). So next time you feel ``disturbed``, how about sharing your work with someone whose judgement you trust and value - let them be the initial judge as to whether you should delete/paint over your work. You never know what others might appreciate. :)
[I get all charged up and go out on this painting/ writing binge. Then 3 hours later, when I’ve calmed down, I read/look at the work, get disturbed and end up deleting/ painting over it.]
--Heheh.. know the feeling. Not that I write or paint - I don`t - I`m talking about my actions, esp what I say/write to others sometimes when I`m all ``charged up``. Later I feel awkward, embarassed even, and initially there`s sometimes a feeling of regret as well. However, the regret soon dissipates if the repercussions are positive (and most of the times they are). So next time you feel ``disturbed``, how about sharing your work with someone whose judgement you trust and value - let them be the initial judge as to whether you should delete/paint over your work. You never know what others might appreciate. :)
#23 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 23, 2000 8:10:00 pm
Dear Slink,
Oh come on now, Lenny Kravitz is multitalented. He plays all his instruments. The man is a super soul fighter. Next thing you`ll say is that Salvador Dali was a cartoonist.
Take care.
Omar Phoenix
Oh come on now, Lenny Kravitz is multitalented. He plays all his instruments. The man is a super soul fighter. Next thing you`ll say is that Salvador Dali was a cartoonist.
Take care.
Omar Phoenix
#22 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 23, 2000 10:29:00 am
Dear Lubna,
Now, now, Lubna. You’re not discouraging me at all. In fact, these comment make me aggressive, they bring out the vicious streak in me. I think I actually get a high on it. I get all charged up and go out on this painting/ writing binge. Then 3 hours later, when I’ve calmed down, I read/look at the work, get disturbed and end up deleting/ painting over it.
Thank you for reading the piece.
Omar Phoenix
Now, now, Lubna. You’re not discouraging me at all. In fact, these comment make me aggressive, they bring out the vicious streak in me. I think I actually get a high on it. I get all charged up and go out on this painting/ writing binge. Then 3 hours later, when I’ve calmed down, I read/look at the work, get disturbed and end up deleting/ painting over it.
Thank you for reading the piece.
Omar Phoenix
#21 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 23, 2000 10:29:00 am
Dear Fuzair and RSaxena,
Don’t worry, this ‘Mr Patel’ will not give you the wrong tablets in his practise because this Mr Patel is more interested in Teaching/lecturing and research.
As for shocking and crudity, please tell me how I can make prostitution more politically correct or more ‘nicer’ and palatable. I can’t and if even if I could, I wouldn’t. That thing you felt when you read the piece, I’m trying to aim for those emotions. Whether I hit the right spot is everyone else’s opinion.
This piece wasn’t crude, just the facts. The real crudity and shocking things were when I read something for the second time in my book and was so disturbed that I deleted them immediately.
Thank you for taking the time to read and take care.
Omar Phoenix
Don’t worry, this ‘Mr Patel’ will not give you the wrong tablets in his practise because this Mr Patel is more interested in Teaching/lecturing and research.
As for shocking and crudity, please tell me how I can make prostitution more politically correct or more ‘nicer’ and palatable. I can’t and if even if I could, I wouldn’t. That thing you felt when you read the piece, I’m trying to aim for those emotions. Whether I hit the right spot is everyone else’s opinion.
This piece wasn’t crude, just the facts. The real crudity and shocking things were when I read something for the second time in my book and was so disturbed that I deleted them immediately.
Thank you for taking the time to read and take care.
Omar Phoenix
#20 Posted by lubna on November 22, 2000 9:28:47 pm
Omar:
I agree with PM - considering you have secondary knowledge, you do paint a very interesting and vivid picture. However, as you yourself have said, it does need more development - your age and the fact it`s your first time round shows. :)Now I`m not trying to discourage you - I think you did a great job when these factors are taken into consideration. I wish you the best of luck and am looking forward to reading the complete version.
slink #16:
Couldn`t help reading that bit about the devil - would like to say something - hope you`ll forgive me for butting in like this. I know what you mean. I can relate to your feelings from experiences in two different settings. One is my experience with a very close friend who writes. Without going into too many details - she used to feel the same way before she managed to disengage herself from the ``devil`` (not completely though - still in the process). For her it has been a somewhat liberating experience - she now finds her work being appreciated more by others (I suppose because it`s more to their liking now), which is what she always wanted. To her, acceptance by others has always been very important - that`s how she identified herself. However, I personally feel that by breaking away she has lost that ``edge`` she had over others - she`s lost that individuality that I liked best about her work. But oh well, she`s happy, I`m happy for her. :) And there`s hope yet - her poetry still has traces of her former self.
The other is from my personal experience in a completely different setting (don`t want to go into details in such an open forum). You say you feel a sense of loss as you realise how dependant you`ve become on this ``devil``. All I`ll say is you might feel an even greater sense of loss if you do break away - as if you`ve somehow betrayed yourself. Unless of course it`s more important to you to be appreciated more by others.
Just thought you`d like to know you`re not alone in feeling this way. Hm.. I hope I`ve made sense - I can just hear another friend screaming ``tum nay buhat khuch kaha aur khuch bhi nahi kaha!`` :)
I agree with PM - considering you have secondary knowledge, you do paint a very interesting and vivid picture. However, as you yourself have said, it does need more development - your age and the fact it`s your first time round shows. :)Now I`m not trying to discourage you - I think you did a great job when these factors are taken into consideration. I wish you the best of luck and am looking forward to reading the complete version.
slink #16:
Couldn`t help reading that bit about the devil - would like to say something - hope you`ll forgive me for butting in like this. I know what you mean. I can relate to your feelings from experiences in two different settings. One is my experience with a very close friend who writes. Without going into too many details - she used to feel the same way before she managed to disengage herself from the ``devil`` (not completely though - still in the process). For her it has been a somewhat liberating experience - she now finds her work being appreciated more by others (I suppose because it`s more to their liking now), which is what she always wanted. To her, acceptance by others has always been very important - that`s how she identified herself. However, I personally feel that by breaking away she has lost that ``edge`` she had over others - she`s lost that individuality that I liked best about her work. But oh well, she`s happy, I`m happy for her. :) And there`s hope yet - her poetry still has traces of her former self.
The other is from my personal experience in a completely different setting (don`t want to go into details in such an open forum). You say you feel a sense of loss as you realise how dependant you`ve become on this ``devil``. All I`ll say is you might feel an even greater sense of loss if you do break away - as if you`ve somehow betrayed yourself. Unless of course it`s more important to you to be appreciated more by others.
Just thought you`d like to know you`re not alone in feeling this way. Hm.. I hope I`ve made sense - I can just hear another friend screaming ``tum nay buhat khuch kaha aur khuch bhi nahi kaha!`` :)
#19 Posted by mansoorfaridi on November 22, 2000 9:28:47 pm
WONDERFUL!
I really shivered. A great fresh perspective.
I really shivered. A great fresh perspective.
#18 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 22, 2000 12:20:45 pm
Dear Tahmad,
Sorry to inform you but that bit in the front was not written by me but by the Chowk staff. I wouldn`t dare delve into cheesy slogans like that because well...I don`t need them.
I only posted the article a week or two back and was waiting to hear from Chowk staff whether the piece had been accepted or not, let alone anything else.
But I sincerely hope you do read it. Then atleast you have the full rights to shred it to pieces if you wish.
Take care.
Omar Phoenix
Sorry to inform you but that bit in the front was not written by me but by the Chowk staff. I wouldn`t dare delve into cheesy slogans like that because well...I don`t need them.
I only posted the article a week or two back and was waiting to hear from Chowk staff whether the piece had been accepted or not, let alone anything else.
But I sincerely hope you do read it. Then atleast you have the full rights to shred it to pieces if you wish.
Take care.
Omar Phoenix
#17 Posted by PM on November 22, 2000 12:20:45 pm
Dear Omar,
Point taken on the `concentrated` nature of this piece. In any case, please don`t take my criticisms too seriously. I sometimes actually start believing my critiques are worth something, and under that delusion put pen to paper. In moments of greater clarity I see who the real `nobody` is -- at least as a (supposed) literary critic.
On other matters, I think I`m pretty much on the ball, and look forward to exchanging ideas/ taking panga with you. :-)
best regards,
PM
Considering the source of (your knowlwdge of) the settings, you paint awesomely vivid images.
Point taken on the `concentrated` nature of this piece. In any case, please don`t take my criticisms too seriously. I sometimes actually start believing my critiques are worth something, and under that delusion put pen to paper. In moments of greater clarity I see who the real `nobody` is -- at least as a (supposed) literary critic.
On other matters, I think I`m pretty much on the ball, and look forward to exchanging ideas/ taking panga with you. :-)
best regards,
PM
Considering the source of (your knowlwdge of) the settings, you paint awesomely vivid images.
#16 Posted by slink on November 22, 2000 1:49:28 am
dear omarphoenix,
interesting and powerful writing that will probably be easier to absorb once it`s diluted over the 600 pages that you mention. g`luck! i must say though, that lenny kravitz is a fake...more shadow than substance..bottled super love vibration if you like :)
urstruly,
for once you write something i agree with, or rather am beginning to agree with..the bit about dance with the devil and he changes you rather than the other way around. as a writer who has spent most of her writing time in the `arms of the devil`, i find the echo of that realization you mention beginning to sound in me. and i feel a curious sense of loss almost...as if the breaking of my unspoken pact with him will take the spine out of my writing. do you know what i mean?
interesting and powerful writing that will probably be easier to absorb once it`s diluted over the 600 pages that you mention. g`luck! i must say though, that lenny kravitz is a fake...more shadow than substance..bottled super love vibration if you like :)
urstruly,
for once you write something i agree with, or rather am beginning to agree with..the bit about dance with the devil and he changes you rather than the other way around. as a writer who has spent most of her writing time in the `arms of the devil`, i find the echo of that realization you mention beginning to sound in me. and i feel a curious sense of loss almost...as if the breaking of my unspoken pact with him will take the spine out of my writing. do you know what i mean?
#15 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 21, 2000 8:32:28 pm
Dear Neurogen & PM.
No, I have no political agendas. I listen to Lenny Kravitz for God sake, the man who spreads super love vibrations. The only thing I can spread is butter.
Yes PM. I agree with you. But then, like I said this is a chop and paste job from various parts of the book. The result is something very concentrated but if you were to dilute these text ‘patches’ over 600 pages, then I’m sure it won’t seem political or erotic. As I said before, these narrations were given the first person’s views and yes, I agree, they’re not very effective.
I started off by choosing Pakistan to write about. I was a student when I started, didn’t have much cash or time to spend a month in Pakistan so I resorted to using the Internet (unreliable) and travel guides etc as my initial sources of information. To put quiet simply, there was much more information on India than there was on Pakistan. I had to make that decision which was purely on business grounds.
Does it then fell like I’m jumping on the Indian bandwagon. Maybe so but then, that’s purely a business decision.
PM and neurogen, feel free to rip into the work if you wish to, as long as it’s constructive criticism. I actually appreciate the comments as I’m a nobody and feel that it’s stupid to get offended if somebody offers advice. All advice is good advice.
Take care and Thanks.
Omar Phoenix
No, I have no political agendas. I listen to Lenny Kravitz for God sake, the man who spreads super love vibrations. The only thing I can spread is butter.
Yes PM. I agree with you. But then, like I said this is a chop and paste job from various parts of the book. The result is something very concentrated but if you were to dilute these text ‘patches’ over 600 pages, then I’m sure it won’t seem political or erotic. As I said before, these narrations were given the first person’s views and yes, I agree, they’re not very effective.
I started off by choosing Pakistan to write about. I was a student when I started, didn’t have much cash or time to spend a month in Pakistan so I resorted to using the Internet (unreliable) and travel guides etc as my initial sources of information. To put quiet simply, there was much more information on India than there was on Pakistan. I had to make that decision which was purely on business grounds.
Does it then fell like I’m jumping on the Indian bandwagon. Maybe so but then, that’s purely a business decision.
PM and neurogen, feel free to rip into the work if you wish to, as long as it’s constructive criticism. I actually appreciate the comments as I’m a nobody and feel that it’s stupid to get offended if somebody offers advice. All advice is good advice.
Take care and Thanks.
Omar Phoenix
#14 Posted by Omarphoenix on November 21, 2000 8:32:28 pm
Dear Zehra,
No inspirations, it all started off with a Sci fi novel which somehow turned into a desi novel.
Did I get carried away, probably yes. I have a bad habit of not pressing the brakes when they’re needed.
Thank you.
Omar Phoenix.
No inspirations, it all started off with a Sci fi novel which somehow turned into a desi novel.
Did I get carried away, probably yes. I have a bad habit of not pressing the brakes when they’re needed.
Thank you.
Omar Phoenix.
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