Headache and Heartburn

Hey all you guys

One of my friend once said,`` Dont drink, and if you drink make sure you dont get drunk.`` Once or twice I tried to give company to some of my friends in the party but somehow I was unable to do so. I particularly hate the smell and taste of beer and whiskey. I always wondered how people can enjoy such drinks. Anyways but it seems some people really have fun drinking.

Cheers

Re: PM #366

Work is the curse of the drinking classes, eh? To quote Oscar Wilde.

Re: Tahmed 321

Sorry, old boy. Don`t know who you have been hanging out with but the only teetotallers to be found in Pakistan are the lower-middle class and middle-class types. Having some experience of the Karachi and Islamabad crowd, I can certainly tell you that the upper-middle class on up certainly does drink, like fishes. I`ve never seen such a group of hard drinkers in the US, for example, outside of a frat party. Years back, shortly after alcohol was first banned, my uncle`s battalion was very happy to have a Christian officer who was a strict teetoller because his alcohol allowance was happily consumed by his brother--Muslim--officers.

Perhaps its different in Lahore or Peshawar but its certainly not the case in Karachi or Islamabad.

Cheers and Lacheim!

pm #366 you write ``I said it was BOTH extremes of the socio-economic ladder that indulged in the bottle. ``

Not the one`s I have seen, and rest assured I have known many people from both extremes of the socio-economic ladder. Those who drink are generally despised in Pakistan, by the vast majority of Pakistanis. I know this is not true in many circles (e.g. street people in the US, poor farmers in Mexico, and so forth), but certainly true in Pakistan for most poor people.

So, I am not sure who you hang out with. Maybe Farangi-Sarangi has a point when he refers to ``ba-ba-black sheep`` - these being the guys who think that drinking is a sign of culture and whom you think represent all of Pakistan.

I don`t know about you Pakis/Muslims but in India, Soma (marijuana I believe) was being smoked way back when during Vedic rituals. Further, it was only under the inluence of some good old alcohol and bhang that the Kama Sutra was written way back when. So there`s nothing Western about an Indian running around tanking a gin & tonic or 2. We`ve been using it for a while...the goras just bottled it, distilled it more smoothly, and branded it. In any case, are we to stop using the light bulb too now because it was a Western invention?

sac (#367)

Ok, you got me. That WAS kind of a dumb generalization... but I DID say ``MOST`` richer folks (not all), and I drew that conclusion from the few parties I`ve been to where one host tried to outdo the other with their offering.

``maybe they jsut frink becasue they enjoy it``... ummm, never quite thought of that. Gotta have a brain scan :)

rgds,

Speaking of indigenous hooch, I have fond memories of excellent Hunza Water up near Sust--truly export quality!--and Shatoot liquor (raw brandy?) that you could use as paint remover.

Of course, these people did not know of alcohol before the Gora Saab came and forced them to debase themselves.

Re: Alcohol and the Class Structure

According to my drinking buddies in Karachi, ones who remembered the pre-prohibition days of legal booze, there is more drinking now then there was then. And now, people drink to get drunk as opposed to having a few to relax, unwind, etc. Also, our drinks are much stronger than the norm in the US (I remember how disappointed I was at the American predilection for weak drinks) and no one in the US has ever heard of the fine old tradition that once a bottle has been opened, it has to be finished.

All this of course has great similarities with the experience of prohibition in the US. Make it illegal, with stiff penalties, and guess what, people abuse it more.

As far as the baa baa cr *p goes, alcoholism has a long history in the subcontinent, far predating the arrival of the Gora Saab. Or did all those Moghuls die of too much prayer and fasting?

re PM #366:

``I will agree, though, that the poorer folks take to alcohol more as a means to numb the very real misery of their desperate lives, while when most wealthy folks indulge, it`s a kind of status symbol.``

wah sain wah. Never saw a more blanket statement. And when someone from the middle class drinks I suppose they are drowning their miseries as well as trying to show off :)

Most people regardless of class drink simply because they enjoy it. I guess its a difficult concept to comprehend for us the chosen ones :)

later

-sac

scout (#363)

``I have to agree with PM on this one. It is the ``upper class`` baba blacksheep engaging in such cultural prostitution.``

I`m afraid you slightly misread or wifully misrepresented my position. I said it was BOTH extremes of the socio-economic ladder that indulged in the bottle.

Incidentally, my use of ``ba ba black sheep`` was strictly ironic (contrasted to the ``cultured`` lower class). Far be it from me to label a whole class of people.

I will agree, though, that the poorer folks take to alcohol more as a means to numb the very real misery of their desperate lives, while when most wealthy folks indulge, it`s a kind of status symbol.

``Cultural Prostitutiom?`` Well, they come in all flavours now, don`t they? Where does bhang, beedee, chaalia and other assorted drug-habits come from?

regards,

chotu #358, ``I concur with F_K and scout, we do not need the western imported tobacco and liquor. We have our own traditional Bhang, Afghani hash, Indian charas (manali variety is excellent, I hear) to keep us in high spirits.``

I`m not advocating any artificial intoxication.

By the way, does anyone know what bhang, hash, and charas are in terms of English equivalents?

I know one of them is an opium derivative and another marijuana. I`ve always wanted to know.

I have to agree with PM on this one. It is the ``upper class`` baba blacksheep engaging in such cultural prostitution.

Unless one changes the desi mind, emulating the Western concept of ``let`s drink to party, party to drink,`` is self destructive and condescending.

Zehra, kya faida? I can celebrate with diet coke :).

re. tahmed321 (#357)

``[the only ones] I can remember drinking and being proud of it were some people from low-income families who got jobs in the civil service and so forth. ``

GET OUTTA HERE!! :-) What are you talking about? Drinking, like all other vices, is a vice enjoyed by both the the `upper class` ba-ba-black sheeps on one end, and the `cultured` underclass at the other. It`s the middle class that seem to exercise more austerity. Been to any New Years` party in DHA (Karachi) lately? :-)

regards,

re. chotu #168

``The impudence of the west is amazing, not only have they declared our traditional intoxicants as harmful, they have the audactiy to declare them illegal``

They have??? Where???

``mard-e daana pee key ahmaque sey kabhee buddtur huaa

aur kabhee bur-ux bee iskay huaa,uxurr hua``

tr:Wise man,after a drink became a spectacle of stupidity

and the reverse too happened,many a time so.

:):):)

who else,but Faiz(translating a russian poet,can`t recall who)

__________________________________________________

wassalaam

scout #347
until then,
peenay dey peenay dey
mujhe jeenay dey jeenay dey
hashar ka din aye ga
jab dekha jaye ga.

(i think ive receited that correctly)

:)
rizvi