Yet Another South Asian Story

dost-mittar #19,

I find your comments very sad. I cannot believe you have tried to make a communal/religious point here. I cant even be bothered to take issue with the specificities of what you said, I just wanted to register my dissapointment.

I just finished reading a book about partition, partially dealing with rape victim`s expeiences. It`s called ``The Other Side of Silence`` by Urvashia Butalia, published by Penguin India. Please read it if you get the chance.

Re: sb

You are using exceptions to argue against my point about literacy.

I am talking about education, not just literacy (poor choice of words on my part earlier).

Education is the only way to instill a sense of responsibility and order in the whole country. Creating laws and reporting crimes is useless until we can affect people`s behavior....that`s the key. There are a billion people in India...few of them have civic sense or responsibility...the police will dismiss almost anything for a bribe. Courts in most of the country function at snail`s pace...victims can die before the case is ever heard. Witnesses are easily bribed off too. And then there is no dearth of basta#d judges who are not above bribes. Of course there are exceptions to all this.

Education is the only way to instill respect for the law and a sense of social responsibility on such a large scale. There are many socio-economic benefits of education which indirectly contribute to solving these problems.

Crimes happen everywhere. But in the armpit (courtesy hamidm) of the world we rarely prosecute the offenders and do little to help the victims. That`s my complaint. Nothing else.

Solitude #70,

I dont know whether you live in Britain but I think you are overstating the influence wielded by Muslims amongst the politicians here. The majority of Muslims here probably around 80% are of Pakistani/Bangladeshi descent so where the oil issue comes into play I dont understand. There have been instances of forced marriages and honour killings but these have happened amongst the Hindu and Sikh communities as well and have often been overblown by a sensationalist and tacitly racist media.

The issues you speak of have to be sensitively handled as Asians form the largest ethnic minority here.

I can see parallels with the way the British Sikh community was portrayed as implicitly extremist circa 1984. I think that temperance is called for when discussing these issues.

In any case, the main body of Muslims (Pakistani and Bangladeshis) have been in this country for less time than the Indians (in terms of major migration waves) and so have not been able to access institutions and achieve to the same extent as their Hindu/Sikh counterparts. I cannot see any reason why they will not make as valuable a contribution to British society as say the Indian community has.

Demographically when the majority of Pakistanis/Bangladeshis have been born, educated, raised here, they will create a space for themselves, reform what needs to be reformed, and not be held back by whatever they feel does not suit their reality in modern Britain. This is a natural process, and external criticism will only seem like hectoring and ,I feel, will inhibit that.

This is happening amongst the Hindu and Sikh community here. If you look at the amount of talent coming through, with writers, actors businesspeople, comedians, presenters and especially musicians, it is phenomenal. The same will happen and I am sure is happening amongst the South Asian Muslims............(I cannot speak about the other Muslims in Britain, the Somalians Arabs or Turks as I have virtually no personal knowledge or contact with them).

regards

Harpreet

sb#20 - you can make an example of Sohanlal, by socially outcasting him (and whoever supported him).

Saxena #4: Despite there being a law against the rapists, and despite the police convinced and willing to charge the rapist, it was the `literate` and the `educated` doctors who failed Aruna, who saw to it that she was not vindicated...where exactly does literacy come into the picture here?

[About the literacy, there`s a difference between that and education...a civil servant who played the key role in Kerala`s 100% litt drive was saying last year - a few years after the state was declared completely literate, they found that the litt level actually came down because the people who learnt to read and write during the drive forgot how to after sometime...as they didnt need these skills in their daily life...there`s no culture of reading yet - just a tidbit. I know people who are illiterate but not spineless and have a sense of community. There`s more to awareness and development than literacy.]

ASK #12: Is the death penalty effective now?

friend #9: It doesnt help Aruna, but it may at least ruffle the sensibilities of some people who remain oblivious of such incidents... and exactly what would anyone on chowk do with Sohanlal`s address?

Harish:

Very evocatively written. As sad and disturbing as this story is, what I find even more tragic and disgusting is how it has been turned into an India-bashing issue by not only some Pakistanis but by some Indians as well. This is not an issue that can be pinned to any one cause or geographical location. Sexual assault and a lack of effective justice is a universal phenomenon.

Re: satish

The points you make about progress on producing enough food to feed the country are great achievements and I am not denying them. But look what the psyche of the Indian middle- and upper-class has deteriorated to....we produce 100, consume 50, and throw the rest of it away while a huge % of the population goes hungry! It doesn`t take a genius to fix that...a little effort and investment (which pays for itself by the way) by the government and local communities in organizing the rationing of excess food...but few who have the power to do something in that country give a damn and most will demand $ for the food if they see that it is going to feed someone rather than being thrown away.

``People in my village dont now have to walk 6 miles to a station to catch one of only two trains that pass per day.``

Most people in the village I was born in now don`t have to walk 6 miles either but they have to fight to fit into an overcrowded train which runs 2 hours late like a herd of cattle to go to jobs which keep them well below the poverty line for life. And the lives of their children since there is no free and mandatory education system.

``So dont tell me nothing has happened. In our own not very efficient way, we indians are setting things right.``

It is not simply a question of whether we are doing it efficiently or not...the slow and often non-existant pace of change is damning and is a human crime. This is different from how fast the US can provide broadband Internet access to the whole country...it is how soon people in India will have clean running water which doesn`t give them typhoid, dependable power supply to keep them warm in the winter, closed sewage systems which don`t house malaria-sreading mosquitos, free education, medical facilities, highways where they won`t be left for dead after an accident because there is no emergency rescue and treatment system, etc. etc.

If you want to talk about starting low, look at Japan. They had much, much less than we did in 1947. I need not say more about what they have done relative to India.

Saxena,

`Awaiting your response accusing me of doing nothing by sitting far away.`

No, I am not going to accuse you of that, since, firstly, I myself am sitting far away, and secondly, I think you are doing something really important being a `nindak`. Unless you feel the anger, the frustration, unless you accept that things are bad, you are not going to start setting it right.

My problem is with hyperbole. with trivializing the problem with exaggerating it at the points where you could be found out to be untrue, and so people could disregard your positive points.

`Ever been to a village in India where rapes often happen and tried to file a police complaint?

500 million poor, hungry, uneducated, and living in conditions worse than those of medieval times`

Well, I was born in such a village, in northern Bihar, and I know the situation in such places. But you are wrong in one respect - the conditions are not worse than medieval times. They are not even worse than the earlier half of 20th century with its 25 million dead in almost continuously occuring famines. Yes, people in my village had to eat imported rotten wheat to survive, but they were not left to die like just a few years previously. My grandfather was the only man to matriculate in my village before independence, now there are dozens of degree holders. I have seen things changing in my life. I still remember people eating only once a day as late as 70`s, and that too only the particular grain that was available at that time. Doesn`t happen anymore. People in my village dont now have to walk 6 miles to a station to catch one of only two trains that pass per day. So dont tell me nothing has happened. In our own not very efficient way, we indians are setting things right. As I wrote in a previous post, you have to consider the state we started from (in short - 27 years life expectancy, 8% literacy and about $50 per capita income, and also 10 million dead in a famine in 1942.)

It could have been much better, much faster, of course, and most of the reasons for it not being much better are the same as you suggest. But that doesnot mean that nothing has happened, because if you accept that, then the next question that arises is `was it better during brit times?` and that just makes me crazy with anger, because it was not, not by a wide wide margin. Anything but that lootocracy.

`First I blamed the government, but then I realized that in India it is the people who choose the government. I turn the TV on and see throngs chasing the Sonia Gandhis and Laloo Prasads who have no vision, no charisma, no plans, no ideas, and cesspools for brains.`

I couldnot agree more with you about those politicians, but again, things have drastically improved recently, haven`t you noticed? Of course we still dont have Einsteins as politicians. But you again have to consider where we are coming from.

As an aside - Laloo never had public mandate to rule in Bihar. The best he could manage was 25% of votes and about 45% of seats in Bihar assembly. His government was always supported by Congress and communists, with a one-point program to keep NDA out. So, basically we had a `secularist` government in Bihar, not a Laloo one. And every time those parties, (Congres and commies) got their votes on the plank that they`d `rid Bihar of Laloo`s goonda raj`. Kind of supports your argument, doesn`t it?

Harish:

It was a very sad narrative. In my opinion, these are the cases that need to be addressed in assemblies and in social gatherings to create awareness and to assist the masses in getting the legal assistance they require. I think the woman`s life has ended and nothing can bring that back. Yes, if that man is punished then others may be saved from such a sick person.

There is a belief, according to which, any crime against a fellow human being will be taken into consideration. If not in this life then the next one. Why else do the poets say ?

Re: satish

``I could not understand why you think this happens only in the `armpit of the world`.``

If you go back and read my post more carefully, you will notice that I acknowledge rapes happen everywhere.

Where the armpit of the world falls short is on punishing those responsible for it -- reasons behind it are the useless legal system and the behavior of society towards the victims. Ever been to a village in India where rapes often happen and tried to file a police complaint?

``But dont you think you are ashamed anyway, and just look for excuses?``

No, until about a year ago my feelings were quite opposite. Then I compared the 100 IT millionaires with the 500 million poor, hungry, uneducated, and living in conditions worse than those of medieval times and started wondering...first I blamed the government, but then I realized that in India it is the people who choose the government. I turn the TV on and see throngs chasing the Sonia Gandhis and Laloo Prasads who have no vision, no charisma, no plans, no ideas, and cesspools for brains.

Awaiting your response accusing me of doing nothing by sitting far away,

RS

Sad story indeed. I think I won`t exercise today. For some reason I don`t feel very energetic now.

A very tragic story. Mr. Nambiar, I have a few questions though. Has a case been lodged against the rapist now? Are there any legal reasons why he cannot be prosecuted and what has been done to change these laws if there are any such? What is your position on the recent legal changes by this government introducing the death penalty for rape? Have there been any changes to the definition of rape, as that seems to be a problem in this case? Is there any piece of legislation that can be supported by the populace.

Do you expect a bout of self-flagellation by South Asians on reading this story? If so, why?

Saxena

I could not understand why you think this happens only in the `armpit of the world`. Tragic though it is, it happens everywhere, even in the `broad forehead - blue eyes` of the world that you inhabit. Just keep your eyes open and you will see hundreds of such examples.

As far as your being ashamed of being from there is concerned, that is your prerogative. But dont you think you are ashamed anyway, and just look for excuses?

This is simply,and very sadly,the crime comitted, by somebody who was consumed by vengeance.This self-loathing,by titling it as `a south-asian story`,is a pathetic attempt to mitigate the crime and aggrandize it to the general social malaise....and there is no dearth of it in India.

Such heinous practices happen more percentage-wise in the lands whose blessings Virani seems to seek by publishing a `book`(it has to be by penguin--one looks and feels more `intelligent` & knowledgeable.``It is in english,you know!by a foreign subsidiary``).Everyone can see through the charade of loddoo-feeding to stone-gods.This charity business.These `journalists` are no longer news-reporters,they are trying to be news-makers.The tail is trying to wag the dog.

When will Indians learn to do something which is contrary to that being done by that doyen of crime & corruption--US.

This is third time I read this story during last few months. Everytime it has been equally disturbing.

I also have a disturbing feeling that perhaps ``virani`` is more interested in publicity of her book. Else why shouldn`t she just tell us current address of Sohanlal and expose him fully. Why ``part of royalty``? Aruna Shanbag was raped. Now graphic description in this story is repeating that rape again and again. Is it helping Aruna in any way?

well - a very sad fact but that is india for you.

apathy bordering on cruelty and no saving grace when it comes to a human life.

Too harsh - not!!