Ghazali On Women In Islam

Re connoisseurs of wine

Check out the latest print issue of the Atlantic or their website for an article on Robert Parker Jr., the reviewer who has turned the ossified wine business upside down

cheers

PS: Scout--lighten up. I don`t think you`re a prude, but your comments make you seem like one. To each his or her own. Nothing wrong in that, right?

Zehra

I understood all but the following words.

``Sae`pharae` Bareen Hae` Kya`?

Sumjhaa Naheen Tusulsal-ae-Shaam-ae-Sahar Ko Main!``

Care to translate it in English ?

Thanx :))

PS May be you like to translate the whole thing for the benefit of others. ( like any South Indian who is visiting this site. Its a different matter with me because I am a Hindi speaker).

Re: hamidm

``i say, let the fool join a lashkar so that he can embrace shahadat at rsaxena`s hands - good riddance to bad rubbish !``

Only if I have time after I am done sitting around in my lhoongi washing down a samosa with a shiraz, ogling a fine Swedish blonde, and thanking William Rehnquist for letting me keep more of my hard-earned dollar and over the 4 years.

Fuzair #294,

(puking)

Hi scout

Almira, dont take all these wine lovers seriously :)) Peene walon ko to peene ka bahana chahiye. Khushi mein to peena, gum mein peena aur jab kuch na ho to boredom khatm karne ke liye peena. I have tasted whiskey and believe me it has a pungent odor and a very bitter taste. Santare ka ras ya phir aangoor ka ras is tastier and much more soothing. Jab zindagi ki kaduwahat sharab se jiyada ho jaay, tab jaakar sharab mein logon ko mazaa aata hai. Since I dont drink(albeit tasted it once or twice), so I fully support you against these winelovers.

Concerned, Hamidm, and all other winelovers



For the benefit of you all, I have posted a couple of verses of the great Hindi poet Harivansha Rai Bachchan and its translation on Almira`s board. May be you like to read it.

Cheers!

PS Meant to be a light-hearted banter -:)

Dear Scout,

One of the great things about hanging around so many Non-Muslims is that you get to learn about their tricks. Over my pitiful existence of 21 years I have found that these people are lost. They don`t know what they want and for that my heart goes out to them. They don`t treat their religion/ thinking as a school of thought but as something that comes as part of the territory. These people like to win points, not discuss something and they will go to absolutely frivolous lengths to try to put you down. Note, they were never trying to understand, just win the point, just try to prove you wrong. One such example, an X- Catholic friend of mine claimed that Islam was racist because it said that all Non-believers would go to hell. When I explained that concept in a bit more detail and also explained that Christianity also believes in the concept of a hell, he yelled `no it`s not.,` and he said that repeatedly. The point, he was trying to get one over me and in the process even willing to put down his own religion.

Please don`t bother with these nutters. The other thing they come up with is `and why not.` It`s the oldest trick in the world and it`s wearing off. Also there`s the idea of rabbiting on like an orifice on diarrhoea by labelling and putting words in peoples` mouth and then saying `see I told you how bad this person is.` That`s just an example of the prejudices that have accumulated in people`s mind by watching too much CNN.

We have something they don`t have and so they want us to stoop down to their level so that they may feel comfortable.

Take care,

Omar Phoenix

Scout

Yes, part of the appeal of wine is the fact that it is an alcoholic beverage. For some people, that means it affords the opportunity to become intoxicated. That is their business. For others, the pleasure is much more refined. Not everyone who drinks drinks to get drunk, and many wine drinkers do practice moderation in their imbibing. Such persons get their desired `effect` without over-indulging.

Yes, we can do without wine, just as we can do without many things in life. But things such as wine often make life more pleasurable, and there is no need to deny oneself such pleasures just because others abuse them. You don`t stop eating rich foods just because some people over-eat and become unhealthy. You practice moderation, in addition to, as you said, getting exercise and taking better care of yourself.

BTW, how come we never have such arguments over tobacco? Just because it isn`t haram, though its effects are potentially worse than those of alcohol?

regards,

Molko

To all the alcohol lovers,

Please don`t make an arse out of yourselves. You`ve already done a good job. My God, all I hear you door handles (knobs) talk about in my hostel is how pissed and laid you`re going to get. .Oooh how stimulating. You know I would seriously burn a few neurones on your comments but how can you glorify something that kills people (drink driving accident), breaks relationships, prolongs depression.

My God, I`m so frigging lucky I`m a Muslim. Had I been like you pissed out losers during the 5 years of pure unadulterated sh *t I`ve been through, I would have drunk myself to dissolving my intestines. But hey, guess what, even though I`m in the land of milk, shagging and honey, I controlled myself (something called fear of God). Behold, I`m here and talking to you wonderful people who claim that you don`t need a Prophet to tell us about the dangers of addiction. Well we have all seen how responsible you all are. Moderation my butt cheeks.

Omar Phoenix

Fuzair #280, ``Given our diet, proclivity to overeat, smoke too much and not exercise, we desi men certainly do need a glass of red wine a day.

Umm, better make that two for me.``

No make that three for you. Good excuse. It takes a real man to change their diet, not to overeat, to exercise, and to stop smoking. There aren`t too many of those in this world. Most of them use alcohol as an excuse of some sorts.

FulSafa-o-Muzhab

Re: Hamidm and Chotu

I quite agree on the delectable qualities of a fine merlot but sometimes the palate craves a more robust, heartier, cabernet or a rough rioja as well. I would very heartily recommend a good Shiraz as well. And let us not forget the pleasures of beaujolais nouveau or a good Riesling or Gewurztraminer with gorgonzola cheese and pears! Ummmm!

Excuse me, most go and pour myself a glass now.

Molko #274, ``Scout, no need to be so self righteous. It`s a medical fact that a glass of red wine a day can lower one`s chance of heart disease.``

Medical fact my a==! One can have the same benefit (if not more) of curbing heart disease with a baby aspirin a day, or diet control, or moderate exercise, and simply taking better care of yourself. I could gather together research on how an hour of meditation every day could lower your risk of a heart attack by half. What the hell? Why get into the habit of drinking alcohol when you can do without it? What the hell?

``But, as in all things, moderation.``

That`s a beautiful phrase. Too bad it doesn`t work. Alcohol, in moderation? There`s a certain level that you have to have in your body to feel the pleasurable effects of alcohol. There is no moderation there. Either you`re there or your not. I`m sure people don`t drink alcohol just for the taste. Grape juice would have the same effect if you want taste.

hamidm (aka Daddy Kala Angrez urf Uncle Oreo) #282,

you say:

`` gora culture concept ! .... i swear by my six yard pathan shalwar that the pursuit of fine wine, beautiful women ( and boys ), tangy naswar, tangier bhang and, of course, the blissful sweet

smoke of peeli-pati charas is not something we learned from the farangis ..... we perfected the art of hedonistic pleasure all by ourselves .....``

So why is it that I hear about the ``fine Merlot wines`` and not the fine Lalukheti naswar or bhang or charas?

Is alcohol an integral part of Pakistani (or even Indian culture)? Does the average desi family have wine with dinner every day? Does the average

desi man/woman find the local bar a good place to ``hook`` up? Does the average 21 year old desi guy/gal celebrate adulthood with their parents by drinking? Do most desi kids celebrate Friday nights or the day after exams by getting drunk?

So where is this fascination with alcohol coming from if not from the gora culture? I`m sure the use of alcohol by men of all cultures has existed for centuries, but in this present day and age, it`s a direct result of the emulation of the West.

You cannot deny it. Present day use of alcohol as a pleasure source is due IN PART to Western glamourization.

you say:

``even as we live amongst ``them`` and enjoy the bounty created by a secular and pluralistic society, we despise their values, their culture - we smugly and derisively mock baseball, apple pie and chevrolet so that we protect our ``values``.......wake up and smell the bouquet of chotu`s merlot..........``

I personally despise the bad/negative qualities of any culture. Who`s mocking baseball, Apple pies, or Chevrolet? Not me. Because these American cultural concepts are not harmful to anyone or anyone`s health. If only us bayghairat desis adopted the good qualities of American culture and discared the bad, we`d be in a better shape.

It`s the desi man`s weakness that the first thing he does when he comes to the ``Land of the Free,`` he starts dating and drinking. Does he respect women more, as Americans do? NOPE. There are much finer Western values that we can emulate than alcohol, fine women (and boys), and hedonistic pleasures.

Wake up and smell the Apple Pie Uncle Oreo! (that is, if your olfactory nerves haven`t been burnt into disuse from the stench of alcohol)

``and nobody, i say nobody, gets huffy and start lecturing on the evils of alcohol and drug abuse - god knows, i get enough of that at pta and tafseer meetings !``

In retaliation to that ``order,`` I will say.

NOBODY WILL STOP ME FROM SAYING WHAT I FEEL.

peace,

scout

Oh you who don`t know will never know what a giant headache i have, and you must be wondering as to my absence from this majlis.Some of you are saying where is he! where is he! while faithful are being slain left right and center,faithful are being harried and harrassed,faithful have nothing left to say but hem and haw and they say ``while he is having fun in his hujra we are the ones paying the price with our lost sleep and productivity.Well let me set you straight you blathering idiots(oh why did I have to be encumbered with this goddamned bunch of low lifes)Some of you I would truly KUDDU-KUSH their useless brains and use it for enema!(hows that for recycling).

Its the women who are creating havoc in my life, you know I did not have a regular normal(ha ha whats normal anyways)childhood went through a lot of abuse and neglect never knew a regular day in my life but managed to pull through some how,especially I dont think I could`ve done without my first one, man was she coool oh uh.Man when I was tripping way out she took me in,just chilled me out and said man I`m with ya all the way. And man was she true to her word, she had money,she had connections,she had a house and had her own business, she even gave me a job, man i was actually a travelling salesman then such a friggin normal kinda existence, un-believable.But then i started having those damn hallucinations,weird flashbacks my oh my some physicians called it epilepsy some said he is crackin up and whad`ya know lots of loose talk.Man it made me so mad you won`t believe it.to one of em I says ``YOU LOOKIN AT ME!YOU LOOKIN AT ME?``man that sure freaked him out(he became my first convert),and I figured out the power of freaks and the rest like they say is history.

Oh I think I got away from my original subject (I think I have a wandering brain syndrome).Like i was saying after my first love passed away(may she rest in peace)I`ve lost my anchor I thought if one was good ten would be better my oh my was I wrong; people oh people hear me out on this one if nothing else, TEN IS NO GOOD, take it from one who has been there done that. I have no peace left I hate them all of them i say to them ``please leave me alone`` that is if i could but you know i have to prove something all the time so i have to do justice to them and that is no justice for me.For they keep squabbling,backbiting and keep on their general cattiness even to my little one my newest addition.Hey this personals thing really works,even though I kinda have to twist her dads arm to make him relent after all he`s got major rewards to reap.

I think i`ll stop here cause i can hear them starting the same routine again.Some body`s got to stop them. See ya