Ghazali On Women In Islam

PM #361, ``C`mon guys!! Show some love! You`ve long since finished debating the ISSUE of drinking.``

I agree. But I`m not showing love to these creeps.

:)

peace,

scout

ps: chowk addiction, maybe, but family breakup?

nahhhhhhhhh

to whom it may concern: ``so you are against alcohol but an occasional joint before going to night clubs is OK ?``

Who said a joint before going to a night club is ok? Where did this joint issue come from anyway?

I thought the pre-club high was Ex these days.

shankar #338:

Well, if you put it that way, what can I say, but :-) !

Something tells me though that we may not find this particular musalmaan`s company disagreeble in hell, though he might continue to harass us with racist slurs on the Indoo uppitiness...

Whatever happened to the conspiracy theorists as you reveal your conspiracies? F Versey would have spotted this one right away!

-----

scout #350: ``Ummm, last time I checked, social drinking, merlots, and Chardonnays weren`t normal Desi cultural aspects. How many times do I have to repeat that? Maybe things have changed now, but it`s due to Western influence.``

I specifically said that the people of an entire caste in India have been eking a living out of making and selling liquor for 100s of years. People have been drinking (not merlots and chardonnays and not in 21 century bars) socially in India since much before the western influence. I am a teetotaler, where`s the point in getting defensive? Just wanted to point out a few factual errors in your posts. After that, its a wide world and you are entitled to your views on the chowk.

I think the personal slurs in #343 and #344 from Solitude are uncalled for.

RSaxena, #339

``God help your patients and you``.

Surely you meant, God help your shrink and you!:-)

Kant...

All this hub-ubb for what? Do we realize that we`re taking Ghazali to be a beacon of purity, when we don`t even know what his own standing was.

Was Ghazali a man of his own learning or is the lineage of learning coming down to him the bigger cause of his biases. You are forgetting to observe that Islam is tainted with the brutalities of the early Khalifah`s, after the Rashideen, of course. Yazid and Muaiwyah didn`t sit on the throne to no effect. The lies they spread had to come back to bite us sooner or later.

Could this not be one of the results of their doings???

Don`t merely study the effect.

Examine the cause as well...

Buzzaz.

Re: shankar shrink

You seem to have gone through a 3-stage evolution...first you tried to be a self-flagellating, tree-hugging idiot looking for Pakistani friends, then you became sad and angry because a few hamidms and RSaxenas pissed you off, and finally you threw a fit/tantrum hurling phallic language at people (eg. your pleas with ylh to not get ``erections``)

Anyway, aren`t you a grown man? Act you age. I know you aren`t a 20-something so there`s no excuse for any immaturity.

shankar #338: Well, if you put it that way, what can I say, but :-) ! Something tells me though that we may not find this particular musalmaan`s company disagreeble in hell, though he might continue to harass us with racist slurs on the Indoo uppitiness...

Whatever happened to the conspiracy theorists as you reveal your conspiracies? F Versey would have spotted this one right away! :-)

scout: [shrug!] Its a wide world, and takes all kinds, I guess. See you around. (i think #343 and #344 from Solitude are uncalled for)

Re: scooty

``And I`m sure Solitude and Rsaxena don`t cry over my calling them kalay angrez or do they?``

Not at all. I`m sure Solitude doesn`t either but you can ask him that.

``Rsaxena,especially, calls me lots of things.

Doesn`t bug me too much. Oreo isn`t a bad word by the way.``

Yup, it`s all a give-and-take. No hard feelings...or even if there are, no use crying and whinning about them and throwing a fit.

Fuzair, scout, Rsaxena

Quit it already!!

scout, here`s something to think about ... chowk addiction and how it may lead to family break-ups. :-)

C`mon guys!! Show some love! You`ve long since finished debating the ISSUE of drinking.

regards,

Re: Scout #358

I don`t know, in the US, calling someone an Oreo is a term of derision: ``black on the outside but white inside`` is pretty insulting. It carries exactly the same connotations as kala angrez. Certainly my black friends in college described it as a pretty insulting term. Of course, it depends who is using it and the tone that is used. The opposite of this, as used by Chris Rock, is to call someone a `nigger.` Some blacks call each other `nigger` but that is its use among friends. When used insultingly by blacks it means the same as `white trash` (when that is used to describe whites).

In your case, I doubt you were using it as a term of endearment.

Regards.

Reply #: 352 OMAR1974
``PLEASE POST THE CORRECT CITATIONS FOR THE SOURCES you used for this compilation``

Revival of the Religious Sciences page 41
(Ihy`a `Uloum ed-Din by Ghazali)
and the Book Of Counsel For Kings page 233-34

Publisher : Dar al-Kotob al-`Elmeyah, Beirut

Most of them are from Kitab An Nikah. These are all Islamic books written by Muslims and studied by Muslim scholars. Other pages, volumes, publishers, city of publication are all on the main page - i.e. if you had cared to look before CAPSing me.

The common layman is strictly advised against reading the Quran and Ahadith on their own. I will quote from a major Islamic website :

``Warning (especially for Muslims)

Scholars of Islam did not allow students to quote from Quran and Hadith until the students had actually come to them and learnt from them directly. ``

But the few brace souls who want to put their faith at risk, those few who want to know rather than believe can do so without the gentle brainwashing censor of a devout(ly brainwashed) Muslim.

I once asked to borrow an Imam`s copy of Tafseer Ibn Kathir he looked at me quite lecherously while we both sat in his hujra.

He told me specifically ``it takes years of Islam before you can read the quran with its meaning``. I insisted and pleaded but he refused.

Why did I plead because my own father (a hafiz, a ``muttaqi`` etc.) refused to give me his own copy of the Quranic Interpretations. My father hid the copies because I was beating him at his own arguments and the Hafiz and ``Mudarris al Quran`` (my father) had to look up the references I provided in the Quran and nod his head in agreement. Those were very trying times for my father`s faith and he made sure I felt his trials as well. Today he sees the darkness within Islam, and is on his way to becoming quite a moderate.

In those days I knew Islam was wrong but I had no money or cloths to prove it. They had taken away all my ID papers and passports so that I could not even start a life of my own. But I knew that if I got hold of the Tafaseer of Quran (meanings and interpretations) I would further demolish their collective tyranny.

I was never subjucted to orthodox Islam - I was merely exposed to it. I was never forced into anything, I was spoiled, I was and still am the king! (they love me despite everything and I love them equally). In Islam a man has quite a few advantages and to give all that up is not easy.
I was not forced primarily because my father is a born again Muslim (he used to be a fighter Pilot -quite modern and secular until he turned Islamic -and is now moderating again).

I have never had problems with my grandmother stopping me from shaving ... (unlike some unfortunate women - but ofcourse there is no misfortue in being hairy! one can always find compatible men with hair on the back of their neck , and hair on the back of their hands - not to mention some men who are cheap enough to give themselves haircuts with shaved off side burns)

I am sorry ignore that, I am still suffering from a $108 haircut from a very feminine French hairdresser-dude.

Fellows, the best is yet to come ... so pull yourselves up. I do not mean you any harm - I am only one man against a mob - I only intend to demolish your (Borg) collective. I only ask that you let me love all humanity in the best way I know how : to expose those who have religious, sexist, homophobic, racist prejudices. In the meanwhile please stand up for your own selves - not some Ummah and you will see who is on your side (you ofcourse).

p.s. to a certain someone : so you are against alcohol but an occasional joint before going to night clubs is OK ? Please spare us ``confused`` Pakistani ``twenty somethings`` your ``pity``. You seem to have too much ``pity`` for _``twenty something``_ Pakistanis in particular.

And by the way : there are 2 girls who refused to kiss me. Both of them were Muslims and one of them was fasting and emanating that smell from her mouth which ``Allah prefers over musk`` (refs. will be provided). Things are coming along fine with her ... I don`t force her into anything and she ends up reading my mind and the minds of underground pornographers. Love her to death :)

As for the second Muslim girl I think she was afraid my teeth would get tangled in her moustache.

Tell her I would prefer flossing my teeth with her hair anyday over living a hairless existance. Tell her I am a sucker for her hair. Tell her I would sooner drink the waterfall of her hair and graze in that dark wild grass. Tell her I am so heartless because I lost myself in the web of her hair. ohh women ...

Fuzair #354, ``Your posts are (i) calling people who drink kala angrez or Oreos and worse and (ii) of how bad drinking is.``

I only abuse people I`ve suffered abuse from on Chowk. They are capable of defending themselves by the way. I`ve already apologized to chotu #255 because I was unduly harsh with him.

And I`m sure Solitude and Rsaxena don`t cry over my calling them kalay angrez or do they?

Rsaxena,especially, calls me lots of things.

Doesn`t bug me too much. Oreo isn`t a bad word by the way.

#346,

thanks

Solitude #344,

Your sense of humor is crude, lewd, and shows your lack of proper upbringing.

No wonder girls refuse to kiss you.

RSaxena,

{{It`s not just the wannabe Mullahs, it`s the shankars too. Oh but wait, the two aren`t necessarily different.}}

hmmm--must say you got a point there, prepuce-head. Maybe youre not as dumb as you sound. Ever since someone talked about the promise of 72 houris, I`ve never been the same. Aw, what the heck, to hell with my razor. Since hamid & you insist on going to hell, I might as well start being pious. Heck, I`ll even donate a houris to you (slightly used,of course), just to show you the generosity of my spirit.

Re: Scout #349

Where in any of your posts do you ever talk about educating people of the evils of excessive drinking? Your posts are (i) calling people who drink kala angrez or Oreos and worse and (ii) of how bad drinking is. The clear implication is that one drink and the person is destined to turn into an alcoholic drunk driver who kills little children and seduces (rapes?) young girls who are rendered vulnerable by alcohol.

I quote your post #329:

``Have you seen a mother cry because her 3 year old died was killed by a drunk driver? It`s horribly sad. Have you talked to a girl who lost her virginity to someone she didn`t even know due to drunkenness?

It all starts with social drinking.``

Presumably, if your point was education of people, you would then have gone on to say that the need is to ensure that our children/society/whatnot are educated about the evils, etc.etc. However you do not. You end it here. What is the implication to be derived from this? Only the one I did.

No one is objecting to your voicing your opinions--isn`t that what we all are doing here?--just to your constant abuse, personal attacks and holier-than-thou attitude. I don`t call people who willingly profess their religions idiots. I may think that they weak individuals who need a crutch but I am willing to ignore them in a spirit of live and let live as long as they ignore me. Its just that they all seem to want to reform me in spite of myself.

As far as enjoying a good merlot or cabernet goes, that is certainly Western. However we choose their drinks because they are far superior to our own. The same way that we choose their electric lights and not our own chiraghs, or their cars and not our own tongas, or their flush toilets and not our own bucket latrines.

Incidentally, the Japanese drink as much as any Gora, as do many Northern Chinese. Its a part of those cultures. Certainly the Japanese are among the few Asians that have the gene to metabolize alcohol rapidly (a Caucasian gene, incidentally), so I guess they are also Goras of sorts. Bantu Africans drink mealy beer (don`t try it, definitely an acquired taste) as a part of their culture. The only difference is that the Gora Saab has refined it to an art form: wine tasting is my idea of an evening well spent. We brownies and blackies are too poor and primitive to have raised it to the heights the white master has managed. So why reinvent the wheel or make-do with disgusting mulberry liquor when better is available? Excuse me now but trying to enlighten those that are determined to remain in the dark is thirsty work. Must have a drink to relax and unwind.