Ghazali On Women In Islam

re humsab #29:

To the best of my knowledge there is no actual legal instance in Pakistan whereby a court has considered a woman`s testimony to be half that of a man`s. As far your Pakistani friend`s statement(even if reproduced verbatim) it should not be projected as a view held by all or most expatriates. If he thinks his daughters are better off in the west he is welcome to it. Please don`t ascribe this as a true reflection of attitudes toward women in most social classes in Pakistan.

later

-sac

P.S: Solitude needs serious psychiatric help(lots of it). I hold the Chowk editors somewhat culpable. In my personal view they are perhaps unwittingly heightening the paranoid and schizophrenic tendencies of the author. Its amusing to see the head banging going on debating the piece though. Rock on.......

klutz #14 Here is how you eat Aam without having to then jump into the river to clean yourself:

a. Slice off right and left ``cheek`` of aam.

b. Hold right cheek down with fork, and ``score`` (cut through the mango flesh) with three or four top-down cuts and three or four sideways cuts;

c. Push on skin side of mango so flesh side comes out (becomes convex) in neat little cubes.

d. Slice off cubes, and put resulting dices in fruit bowl.

e. Serve to guests.

Epilog: After guests have left, take the non-cheek parts of the aam (the one with the Ghuttlie) impossible to eat that with knife and fork. either throw it away if you have no respect for this fine fruit, or else lap it up as usual with your fingers, teeth, tongue. Then go swim in the river to clean up the mess.

This refers to ylh# 50 point (b)

Since there is Viagra and prosthetic devices both available and they are covered by your local HMO there is no excuse. You can run but you cant hide anymore.

re PM #39

I have posted the response on ``Headache and Heartburn`` board.

Thanks.

Since we are on the topic of women, here is something interesting. With the induction of the new Minister for Law, Justice and Parliamentary Affairs Shahida Jameel, the current Pakistan cabinet has the highest number of women ministers ever: three. Considering the size of this cabinet is much smaller than the usual Pakistani cabinets, the percentage comparison is even much higher the numeric comparison.

Although the cynics have already denounced the current local bodies elections, I am eagerly awaiting the results. I believe 33% of the seats have been reserved for women in these elections. I think women are open to contest for all the other open seats, as well. In fact people are saying there will be more seats than female candidates. In any case, if carried out successfully, this could be the most revolutionary step ever taken to empower women in Pakistan. Let`s see what happens.

Is Pakistan becoming a non-Muslim country since it is not following Ghazali`s advice regarding women, for these elections? Food for thought.

Umairr #40,

Well said.

rajanjua (#44)

``You really don`t want to get into which religion- is-better-debate Patrick Sahib. We both have enough ammunition to crash the Chowk hard disks. It would be a waste of time.``

Jangua sahib, you misunderstand the point of my illustrations. Most Muslims seem to labour under the misconception that pre-Islam, no women anywhere in the world had any rights at all. And you`re right, debating the merits of one religion over another is a futile exercise I would be loathe to undertake, if only because little good cold come out of it.

My recent references to the Christian faith were made, as always, with the sincere intent to present an impartial picture as is possible and clear what I deem misconceptions.

``Your bitterness against the ``Islamic`` Republic of Pakistan is understandable and justified, though.``

Now Mr Janjua, I am insulted by the insinuation that my participation here is motivated by bitterness for the motherland or its inhabitants. If you have not been able to understand my motivations till now, you probably never will.

Oh and, when time permits, please do tell me why misogynistic traditions in ancient Greece (in which I am reasonably well-read, thank you) should discourage one from pointing out Plato`s theoretical gender-equality.

rgds,

Mr Janjua (#44),

Almost forgot... on the matter of the question put to Mr. Tahmed, so tell me, if there is indeed no Social Law in Islam, what are we to make of the very precise injunctions on, say, how adulterers and rape victims are to be punished? Or are the judge, jury and executioner simply metaphors for various aspects of one`s conscience? (See, I can do the `learned scholar` bit too :-) )

More seriously, you have yet to answer my original question: What would the purpose of Quarnic laws have been if they were not required to be observed/enforced?

Or do I need to spend 20-30 years in a madarassa to understand the `paradoxical` nature of these injunctions? :-)

rgds,

Lubna #

On various post.

If we are Muslims, what is the basic teaching of Islam. There is no god but Allah. Prophet PBUH invited christians to the common belief that we would not worship anyone but One God. Quran says in two places whether it is jewish, christian, Sabi or Muslim whoever does good and believe in One God has reward from God. There is a Hadith which says that Muslims will follow christian and jews in their bad ways. And even if they followed the lizards hole, Muslims will follow it. What are the crimes or wrong thinkings of other religions elaborated. One is jewish thought that they will go to heaven. And Quran says that have they taken an oath from God for this.

The current Muslim thinking in all these matter is this. Only Muslim after Prophet PBUH will go to heaven. If he passes sometime in hell, he will ultimately go to heaven. The Ayah regarding Jewish and Christians are related to past and can no longer be applied. So a group priding itself with only knowledge as knowledge of Islam which for practical purpose is static at 10th century AD. The group priding itself in countering and maligning science although what is wrong in discovering nature as told many times in Koran. So on and so forth.

The problem is not that I think differently. The problem is I am Munafiq, Zandeeq, liberal and communist because I think differently and therefore an agent of Anti-Islamic forces (more properly anti Mullah forces)

Shiraz might be wrong in shirking his belief in God. But he is right that Islamic scholars have sold their souls to the powerful in the name of Islam. And it does not matter what you or I think. It is the will of these Mullahs which is the will of Islam.

Just to show the pathetic face of these self righteous people I will tell you a real story from our recent past.

To be continued.

Assad_K, and all

Even before reading your post on the other board, I had these questions framed in my mind, seeing the word `Ijtehad` tossed around like a frisbee here. Input from anyone would be appreciated...

1) What are some of the main areas/specific laws that progressive Muslims would desire reform of?

2) How much of the above is sourced directly from the Quran and Sunnah, as opposed to Shariah of one or other of the six schools of jurispudence?

3) How long did the process of Ijtehad run before it was terminated/completed? 300 years?

4) Are there any instances in which this Ijtehad produced jurispudence that overrode the explicit injunctions of the Quran/Sunnah? Are there any devices/loopholes through which this would be possible?

5) Based on (4), what are the prospects for meaningful change through 21st-century Ijtehad?

Peace,

PM

Lubna #

A few years back a prominent politician from Punjab, I think someone from Hayat family. His daughter was raped by police officer in custody. Our champion of Islam and from whose every orfice Islam flows meaning ``Takbir``, the real face of current Islamic Thekedar was justifying the rape by police ofiicer because that lady was already of ``Loose character``

Can I stop the hand of a person writing this in Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Can I say something. No because I am already labelled as liberal, communist, or whatnot. (See their behaviour with Asma Jehangir etc. Whenever they something they are labelled as traitor loose character, anti-Islamic). You cannot do anything. Because Islam and its interpretation belongs to them.

Somebody said something about Urdu, I will twist it to Mullahs and Islam.

``Aji Hassat Islam To Un Ke Ghar Ki Londee Hai``.

``To Woh Sulook Bhi Us Se Londiyun Wala Hi Karte Hain.``

Hey Yasser,

How come Solitude gets to be the sole beneficiary of your gratitude and blessing? Is doing what he does in a kinder, gentler way less worthy of your admiration?

Us karantas need some TLC every bit as much as Muslim-born agnostics do, you know! :-)



Good to see you back on the chowk. Hope you`re finding your place in the sometimes confusing world American college.

rgds,

PM,

heh. was just browsing the interacts and thought i should tell you `A brief history of God` is lying on the shelf above my computer. yours isn`t it?

actually, it`s not `brief`.

PM #

Your four questions are Kufr.

The majority sect Sunni is on correct path. There are only four or five interpretation of Islam related to five Imams (not Shia. They are minority sect and therefore not true Islam). The discussion is mostly related to how to put your hand during prayer. What is the expiation for ``Hadas`` during prayer. How long should the beard be. These things are the only true reality and everything is known by 1000 AD. They have been fossilized through institutionalized bigotry in last 1000 years.

As far as your question of deviation from Quran. Early Munafiqeen, who did not know Islam, particularly Omar RZAH. When he captured one place. Instead of distributing Booty according to Quran, he distributed it among the conquered people for the greater good of community and their good will. Such Anti-Islamic practices are only restricted to earlier periods of Munafiq Muslims. For the last 1000 years as everything regarding Islam is known. People go by the book. And any innovation is Anti-Islamic and Bidaa and biggest of which is science.

I hope this answers your query to a little extent.

PM #316

4:3 ``If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.``

PM reckons that this aayat condones slavery. It seems to me that it does.. However, I would appreciate if someone can interpret this aayat for us.

Another question I have relates to the following:

“In his Book of Counsel for Kings, Ghazali sums up all that a woman has to endure because of Eve`s misbehavior in the Garden of Eden: “ (as per the author of this article)… one of punishment he describes is:

-her liability to be divorced and inability to divorce; “ (Ghazali, as per the article)

As I understand it, in Islam men and women (both) have the right to seek divorce. When women initiate divorce proceeding it is called “Khula” … am I right or wrong? If I am correct then how do we explain what Ghazali is saying?

Thanks.