The Soft Option

ALLIANCE IN THE MAKING?

Aroosa Alam reports from Islamabad:

“Meanwhile Central leaders of seven political parties on Tuesday warned against restoration of assemblies and demanded holding of fresh elections in the country under totally autonomous Election Commission as early as possible.

A meeting of central leaders of seven political parties was held at the residence of Imran Khan, Chairman, PTI. The meeting was attended by Ajmal Khattak, President NAPP, Latif, NAPP, Air Marshal (Retd) Asghar Khan, Rahbar Tehreek-e-Istiqlal, Mumtaz Ali Bhutto, President Sindh National Front, Iqbal Ahmed Khan, Secretary General Muslim League (Chattha), Dr Ghulam Hussein, PPP(SB), Abid Hasan Minto, National Workers Party. The meeting lasted for about two and half-hours” (Pakistan Observer, December 13, 2000).

In response to Sting (Reply # 471)
Dear Sting:

Your statement: ``Can someone please explain the ``neglect and torture`` that Kashmiri`s were put through over the years.``

Comment: ``Torture`` is well known. For a good historical overview, see Sumantra Bose`s book on Kashmir.

However, there is plenty of evidence that Kashmir and Kashmiri`s were not at all neglected in an economic sense. The trouble started after the elections of 1987.

Another interesting book on Kashmir is by Victoria Schofield. I am sure these two books will help you understand the situation in Kashmir.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to tahmed (Reply # 476)
Dear Ahmed:

Thanks for a brief but a reasonable, civil, and balanced response.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ad #411 You ask ``My understanding was that muslims the world over strive to convert everyone into the Ummah so that the concept of ummah does not remain an absurdity. Is that not the reason why muslims preach and convert the Kafirs ?``

Sorry for the late reply. On the concept of the Ummah, let me present additional points to make my case: (a) Muslims are unique among people of other religions in that they come together from all parts of the world during the Hajj at Mecca, to the extent that the word ``Mecca`` has found its way into the English language. The Hajj is also an event of central importance in Islam as well as in the hearts of muslims. This, if any, would be a place for talk about muslim brotherhood, muslim unity and so forth. So it is instructive to see that the Hajj is first and foremost an event between the individual and God, and an occasion of great dignity, and there is no place for discussions on politics. (b) Institutionalized Religion: There is no pope in Islam nor even any process for interpreting the message on practical issues for all muslims. The mullahs in Pakistan think they can do this, but even they never imagine that their pronouncements would be given any notice by non-Pakistani muslims. In Islam, every muslim has the responsibility of understanding the message for himself, without the assistance of self-appointed intermediaries and learned ones. (c) As a practical point, the concerns of muslims in different parts of the world are as diverse as people of any other religion.

Bottom line: No need to fear attempts at world domination by muslims. While it is a historical fact that early muslims energetically set about spreading the word across three continents, there is no sign of anything like that happening (even if it was remotely possible in today`s world, which it is not).

It is true that to become a muslim -basically indicate your belief in the one sentence Kalima. And it is also true that muslims think it is great when a non-muslim converts to Islam. However, I dont think conversion of other people is any more a priority for most muslims than it is for people of any other religion.

To Rsaxena # 465

That guy is too childish and proud to plead , so i am doing him that favour....

Have Mercy on our poor, confused, childish, YLH. Dont kill him like that. :-)

cheers

Akash

Yes you are god himself after all, you know very well my intentions are... and how insincere I am about the plight of sikhs or Tamils or anyone else.

Your frustrated, angered and absolutely outrageous post doesnot offend me...

I live my life according to the following principle ... and you are right unwillingly I do happen to step on many feet... mostly Islamic Fundamentalists and Hindu Brahmins...

Bol kay lab azaad hain teray

Bol kay sach zinda hai ab tak

So I shall speak... and you can live in your fools paradise and claim victory for as long as you want. Its your loss.

Harpeet,

Please refer to my posts 319 and 356

Yasser Hamdani

Akash

Interesting that you think I have lost the argument. I wonder why if I have lost the argument that you still feel compelled to attack me?

On the contrary I feel, that by quoting authors like Hodson, Wolpert, Ayesha Jalal, George Orwell, Bertrand Russel, Gandhi`s own grandson Raj Mohan Gandhi and his eulogy of Jinnah, etc I have proved my thesis very well.

Any open minded rational individual will see that Sadna and MacGupta could not humble me ... hell they didnot even come up with a valid argument. Just strawman fallacies.

I leave you with a thought from Hodson`s work ``The great divide``

``Not even his political opponents accused him of self seeking, Jinnah was unpurchaseable, he could be bought by none``

I am recounting this as an example to prove how your thesis has been disproved. But no, a person like you, (let us not forget your background, you are after all just an Indian) will never accept defeat but I agree totally that truth cannot be changed.

Have a nice day.

Yasser Hamdani

PS Those who know me, know quite well that my intention was to show that your opinion is not necessarily the only right opinion or for that matter right at all.

sadna #462

Thanks for your response and kind words.

Good, clear thinking… and very well expressed!

PM #466

“Would someone care to point out where the light is for Pakistan`s tunnel, if at all there is any?”

I wish I could say that Feroz is wrong in his assessment re Pakistan’s political, and economic problems… unfortunately, what he says is absolutely true! What I don’t agree with is his prescription, which amounts to ‘forced’ euthanasia while the patient has not been diagnosed ‘conclusively’ to be terminally ill.

I don’t know where the light is for Pakistan’s tunnel… but I know where it isn’t! It is not in a bloody revolution or Talibanization!

In a culturally/ethinically/religiously diverse Pakistan, Talibanization/bloody revolution will only bring destruction. Nothing positive can ever come out of such senseless violence.

PM, don’t give up just yet!

In response to PM (Reply # 466)
Dear Patrick:

Your statement: ``Would someone care to point out where the light is for Pakistan`s tunnel, if at all there is any?``

Comment: Assuming that the tunnel is linear and it is not a cul de sac, we need to keep moving and keep struggling. However, the real life tunnels are never linear and hurdle-free. And if there is light at the end of each tunnel (which I believe it is), then there is no royal road to go to the end of the tunnel (as Marx would have said) though we may have to deal with the problem of hurdles. Are we moving? Are we prepared to remove the hurdles? Are we prepared to go to the end? It would definitely help if we have a map (master plan) of the tunnels and their hurdles.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ylh

No matter how much you rave and rant, any observer who is reading your posts Vs Tibor/Harpreet knows that you have lost the debate. THE REJONIDERS BY HARPREET WHO IS A sIKH, AND BY RDESKIN, WHO IS A TAMIL, ABOUT YOUR SO CALLED SIKH/TAMIL OPPRESSION HAVE MADE YOU A LAUGHING STOCK ON WHOLE CHOWK. This does not , however, means that everything you said was wrong, only that your forensic skills are very limited. When people counter your point, you do not reply countering their point, rather start shouting either repeating your previous posts or evading their pointed questions. Your multiple posts show your frustation to desperately make people understand your viewpoint. Previously you were humbled squarely by Sadna, MacGupta on some board. Dude you need to come up with some more logical answers than parroting what is written in some books by some authors. In your anger, you utter some entirely BS and illogical comment and people then easily screw you up. NOBODY LIKES TO ADMIT DEFEAT, WE UNDERSTAND THAT.But that doesn`t change the reality.

HarPreet and Rdeskin

You people have shown that an Indian, from whatever caste, religion, he belongs,is an Indian first. Yes we do have some problems, but we are making progress towards their solution. It makes me proud that you people were not fooled by ylh`s crocodile tears. Why should a Paki worry about a Sikh, Tamil when they are not able to do justice with their own people. Because they want to let us down by creating division amongst us. Harpreet, be careful of guys like ylh who will try to win you over by sweet talking. These Pakis are adept at this strategy to con us.

AND YLH, IT WILL BE INFINITELY BETTER IF YOU FIRST TRY TO MEND YOUR OWN HOUSE BEFORE CONSPIRING AGAINST US.

THNAK GOD, I AM NOT A PAKI.( LIKE YLH OF COURSE, ahmads, Sameers and Feroz are obviously excluded)

Kashmir cease-fire brings hope of peace

BY MANSOOR IJAZ

PAKISTAN`S decision last weekend to join a cease-fire declared by India a few days earlier along Kashmir`s disputed line of control represents a watershed development in South Asia`s politics of war. Pakistani leader Gen. Pervez Musharraf clearly understood the gravity of India`s unilateral decision. Not since the days of the British raj has New Delhi resorted to non-violence as a weapon of conflict resolution.

Full article at:

http://www0.mercurycenter.com/premium/opinion/columns/kashmir12.htm

``Hold it. Are you trying to say that 30 days of cessation of firing is supposed to act as a salve for years of neglect and torture?``

Can someone please explain the ``neglect and torture`` that Kashmiri`s were put through over the years.

Sting

It is amazing to see the over-reaction of everyone at Nawaz Sharif being exiled. The guy is out of the country. Be thankful. He has probably paid back many times what NAB or any court would have been able to get out of him. All his punishments are intact, except for the jail time. People like him are twice as dangerous in jail, as they are out of jail. And for once, we have a situation where a corrupt jailed person will not become a martyr. Thank God.

Everyone seems to be pointing to the notion that people are upset because a crook has been set free. What they forget so conveniently, is the fact that these same people elected this same crook with the, ``heaviest mandate`` in the history of the country, knowing fully well that he had been a huge crook the first time around. These same complaining folks would have elected him again, in the next election. If people want to see him punished so badly, why do they keep voting for him? They can`t have it both ways.

My humble suggestion is for this govt. to pick up all the other political con men/women, have them sign a deal where they turn over their assets in Pakistan to the govt. (their corruption is done with such precision that no court will ever be able to get this money legally; and almost all their real stash is in Switzerland, so its never coming back, even if these guys are hanged), and ship them all to Saudi Arabia.

If the above could happen for the complete group constituting the previous National Assembly of Pakistan, I would certainly be a happy man. The money they have eaten up is lost forever. It`s as good as gone. Citibank, Swiss National Bank, etc. are not going to give it back to Pakistan. People will keep voting for these crooks (while simultaneously complaining when these guys are, ``exiled``), just like there were people who loved Ivan the terrible.

I hope Asif Zardari, Saifullah, etc. etc. are next on the list for the Sheikhs. These guys have made their millions; the millions aren`t coming back; as long as they physically remove themselves from the country, and not bother Pakistan anymore, I don`t really care what kind of luxuries they enjoy in Saudi Arabia.

For all the people who are crying themselves silly regarding NS being, ``let go,`` why do they vote for this idiot when he is in an election? Benazir will win from Larkana, even if she nominates a donkey that has murdered five people. Nawaz Sharif will win from Lahore, even if he is sitting in a jail cell in Attock, managing his London flats. Altaf Bhai`s thugs will win in Karachi even if they shoot four people on their way to the ballot box. The same people who are calling for Nawaz Sharif`s head, will religiously go to the polls, and elect him again and again.

For the people calling for a revolution; whom exactly do you think should carry it out? Nasrullah? Benazir? Altaf? Wali Khan? Bugti? Qazi? Be careful what you wish for, your wishes might come true.

Good riddance, as far as NS goes. At least there is finally a regime that has punished this guy, even if they haven`t opted for the Chinese water torcher. It`s more than what anyone else ever did to the Sharif family. Hope the guy has fun in Saudi Arabia, and doesn`t show his evil corrupt face in Pakistan for 10 years. Because if he does show his face again, i am afraid us Pakistanis will elect him as our Prime Minister again. So heavily has hero-worship been burnt into our souls.

Full marks to the person who came up with the idea of sending this guy to Saudi Arabia. I hope Zardari is next. Alphabetically down from Zardari, all the way to Gohar Ayub.

Re: Umairr #352

I responded to all of your questions, in my post #403, but have not yet read your promised response

Umairr #310:

``Because of this, besides the moral stance of Kashmiri freedom, Pakistan has certain other interests in keeping the Indian military bogged down in Kashmir. If it is not bogged down in Kashmir, it will situated on the Punjab and Sind border. Considering the gigantic increases in the Indian military budget, there will be no way for Pakistan to defend Sind nor Punjab, if India redeploys its soldiers on these borders.``

Can you give me ONE good reason why India would want to attack or occupy Punjab or Sind (assuming the Kashmir issue is out of the way)? India is not China and Pakistan is no Tibet. There is no way an Indian army would be able to occupy either Punjab (the Pakistani one) or Sind and subjugate the people there. Occupying uninhabited peaks and glaciers is easier than occupying a hostile people, as Pakistanis should well know (with their Bangla experience!).

I think the Indian threat to Pakistan is over-stated. Just stay out of Kashmir and other spots in India, and you will see peace, the gas pipeline and prosperity.

On the other hand, if ever India lost any part of Kashmir to Pakistan now, Pakistan would earn India`s undying enmity. Would you expect India to just give up J&K and grin and bear it? You will be creating a bigger and more determined enemy... with more %GDP allocations to defence, to `wrest` Kashmir back and so on. If the Pakistani establishment could see two steps ahead instead of none, it would realise that India retaining J&K and giving up its (India`s) claim to Pak Occupied Kashmir would be the best and safest option for Pakistan.

shankar #374

You make two points: a) Kashmiris have as much right to independence as India did vs the British, b) Non-violent protest by Kashmiris will get them better results than the current violence.

I disagree with both of them.

1. India was a colony of the British, with no rights. We were not British citizens. We were Indians occupied by a bunch of traders followed by their rulers. J&K is not a colony, its citizens are full Indians with the same (actually more, owing to the Constitutions) rights as other Indians. We had nothing in common with the Brits, while J&K shares common culture with the rest of India to the extent possible in this vast and diverse land... Remember J&K itself is a diverse state with several religions in it. I can not understand how one can equate the two...

2. Remember Tibet? And the non-violent protests of the Dalai Lama and his troupe? Where has it gotten them so far?

I think India got its independence because, apart from the freedom movement and so on, the era of imperialism was simply over. It is no longer possible for a distant power to rule over large, far-away colonies like the British did.

Any struggle by any Kashmiris, either through violence or non-violence, for `independence` will get them nowhere, because India will not concede secession of any of its parts. What can be acheived, however, is the implementation of the Constitution that has been missing so far - free and fair elections, protection of Kashmiri culture, support for education and economy to flourish etc etc. If Kashmiris fight for this, they will get it, as has been proved by movements in several states.

Most of India`s political ills are, in my opinion, because of the mentality of the North India dominated Congress and like parties and the bureaucracy which tried to suppress local languages and cultures...

- Tamilians fought against imposition of Hindi and won.

- The people of Andhra Pradesh protested the unjust dismissal of NTR in 1984 and kicked the Congress out.

- Subhas Ghising got an autonomous council for Darjeeling to protect Gorkha culture within West Bengal.

- The Centre was forced to enter into several accords (Longowal accord in Punjab, another accord in Assam) with state movements to protect their language, culture and rights.

- The several insurgencies in the north east owe their origins to the same reasons - unjust exploitation of their natural resources with nothing in return, threats to indigenous culture due to influx of Bengalis etc...

It is not possible in a diverse country like India to have `one nation, one religion, one culture` - it is more like `one nation, several religions, several cultures, several languages`. Once everybody realises and respects that, we will coexist in peace.