The Soft Option

IS THE EDITOR ANGRY?

The editor of Pakistan Journal, Information Times, wrote in response to a proposal by a Pakistani citizen (December 12, 2000):

In my humble opinion, the corrupt regime of Dictator-General Pervez Musharraf has lost all credibility and the opportunity to govern Pakistan. It has miserably failed to implement any real reforms during the last 14 months. Therefore, we will end up wasting our precious time and energy by giving any ideas or proposals for real reforms to the current rulers of Pakistan.

We hope that after reading your letter, the Information Times readers will present realistic and reasonable solutions to Pakistan`s complicated problems, issues and crises.

However, in the Information Times editorials, commentaries and articles, we will try out best to explain two key questions:

1. Does Pakistan needs real reforms or a bloody revolution?

This is the main question which we must answer. The second major question is:

2. How to implement real reforms in Pakistan or how to bring a real revolution to reform the state, government, judiciary, economy and society in Pakistan?

Pakistan Journal Editor
[Information Times: http://www.InformationTimes.com ]

Sorry! This is the re-corrected post!

Re: bahmad

Pakistanis wanted NS punished; not let off the hook and no matter how you slice the ``exile and its history`` argument, the people are severely disenchented and angry at Musharraf for letting NS go!

Bilal, there is no justification for this - letting a convict buy his freedom! If this is the case, then why not free all the other political prisoners; the corrupt defaulters et al? Why the pretense and lies for the last 14 months? Why the false promise that ``I will not cum in your mouth``?

I also blame Nawaz Sharif for not accepting this deal when it was offered to him after the coup and dragging this mockery to obscene limits.

If we get the Taliban, it will be because we deserve them!

Ciao!

Re: bahmad

Pakistanis wanted NS punished; not let off the hook and no matter how you slice the ``exile and its history`` argument, the people are severely disenchented and angry at Musharraf for letting NS go!

Bilal, there is no justification for this - letting a convict buy his freedom! If this is the case, then why not free all the other political prisoners; the corrupt defaulters et al? Why the pretense and lies for the last 14 months? Why the false promise that ``I will not cum in your mouth``?

I also blame Nawaz Sharif for accepting this deal when it was offered to him after the coup and dragging this mockery to obscene limits.

If we get the Taliban, it will be because we deserve them!

Ciao!

Farzana #445

``I think I understand human suffering better than any government or politician. ``

I commend you for your efforts to understand human suffering. Take one more step in this direction and in your writings call for peace in the subcontinent... move away from the rheotric and look into the lives of those who have lost loved ones in kashmir (on both the sides)...
It may not be necessary for you to justify every word that you utter, but you are morally responsible for the effects your writings have on the society. And as Bilal says, you are answerable to your own concience and ethics.

You say in your Reply #: 376

``My views on Pakistani Hindus are well known... thankfully none of

them are Brahmins....

I dont wish to defend anything to you. You really dont make any

sense.

Now if you will let me, I have to go study.``

My response. Apparently you feel there aren`t any Brahmins in Pakistan. Just for the sake of argument lets say there are, which I strongly suspect there must be still some around, what do you suggest Pakistan do with them. Banish them to India; throw them in concentration camps. How do you suggest you are going to take care of your Brahmin problem? You seem to be under the impression the Brahmins only exist in India, which is soooo wrong. It is just an indication of how little to are aware of the world. How about Brahmin for Nepal or Fiji or any of the African countries with Indian communities or even the West. Do you have Brahmins of America as well?

You say in your Reply #: 377

``And one last comment,

The problem with you Tibor is that anything that conforms to your

view is always amazingly very accurate.. ``

My reply. I hope so or I`ll be lying to my self. Or do you just hate the fact that someone is asking to defend your views and you are finding it difficult.

You say in your Reply #: 380

``As far as defending Pakistan is concerned, I believe I have

answered every single accusation very well and people will vouch

for it. I just doubt the intention of the accusers....``

My response. Do you mean defending the existence of Pakistan? Every Indian on this Board, as far as I am aware, accepts the existence of Pakistan and would not have it any other way. Please tell me how I can assure you that I accept Pakistan and if it is reasonable, I will comply. I believe you problem is that you want as to respect Pakistan but he way Pakistan has been governed and the condition it society is in even Pakistanis don`t respect Pakistan, and there is you real problem.

You say, ``And then people like Tibor go around announcing victory? What

are you out to prove anyway.What do you say now shankar?``

My response. I collaborate with no one. I only ask you to clarify your opinions and provide explanation for your statements. I believe that what this forum is for and you consistently fail to answer any question and start calling everyone you disagree with Nazi, Hindu, baniya, Brahmin, etc….

You say,``For your information this was the first time I mounted an offensive

against your pathetic country... for the last 8 months I had only

tried to persuade you people with logic ....``

My response. Who the fook are you lying to kid? This is the same audience on the Board as it was 8 months ago. Have you no shame? Do you take us for fools? You have the been calling Hindus evil, nazi, fascist, baniyas, Brahmins (this one is new) for a long long time. Claiming you have a better genetic pool then Hindus next door. We can all go back and check and there is more than ample evidence of your tantrums.

You say, ``I urge you Indians to leave Pakistan alone... like Shankar said,

when Indians criticize Pakistan its like the kettle calling the Pot black. ``

My response. Shankar is right but my issues are with you.

You say, ``Grow Up Tibor! and live with the fact that Pakistan exists! and that

you are not well read at all. And now please dont feel compelled to answer this post...

because you wont find any answers from me..``

My response. Refer to the response above. And to all the Indian please help me find a way to assure Ylh that we accept existence of Pakistan and he doesn`t bring up this pseudo argument again. Seems like every time you find the inefficacy of your own arguments you bring this ever resilient one, but kid this has worn thin.

You say,``I have proved you wrong on every occasion ...

if only you could F..ing open your eyes and see that your version

is not the only right version!``

My response. Do you take me for a fool? Who the fook do you think you are? You are just repeating me what I told you a while back. Do you think I don`t remember my own words, you little shiet. I told you this twice before and one from

Topic: SHOULD PAKISTAN HONOR LAHORE RESOLUTION? Reply 135

``As for me, I`m a wandered, I don`t belong to any land. There is

more than one right answer, and there is never an absolutely right

one.``

And the other I can`t find at the moment but you can go back and check.

You say in you Reply #: 381



You say, ``1) Pakistan was unnecessary

Right... Babri Masjid, Golden Temple, violence in Kashmir, Tamil

Nadu... etc``

My response. Find me a single on this board that defends Barbari Masjid and I will personally take issue with that person. As for Golden Temple and Kashmir, yes. Golden Temple, I have already written on that and am not going to repeat. Kashmir, we will protect our Shias, Hindus and Buddhists from the Islamic republic of Pakistan till the last soldier. I don`t know what visions of Pakistan you have in your head but Jammu and Ladakh are not ever leaving Indian and no Hindu, Buddhist, or Shia in J&K wants to become part of Pakistan. And for Tamil Nadu, I don`t even know what you are talking about.

You say, ``2) Pakistan is a theocratic country

Untrue, no Bigots have been elected in a majority to its federal

legislative body. Its founder was a man who was once known as

``the best ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity``. Pakistan

constitution might have Islamic provisions but it still is more

secular in essence considering the treatment of minorities than

India. Besides even in Islam there is no concept of THEOCRACY

... so secularism vs theocracy is a non Issue when it comes to

Islam...``

My response. Just ask the Shias in Jammu whom they rather be with, Pakistan or India, or the Buddhist of the Sikhs, or the Christians.

You say, ``3)Jinnah`s intentions behind making Pakistan, power hunger?

I presented the thesis of world renowned writers like HV Hodson,

George Orwell, Bertrand Russel,

Stanley Wolpert, Raj Mohan Gandhi, Hector Bolitho, S

Bandopadhya, and Ayesha Jalal proving otherwise, I recounted

their tributes to the greatness and integrity of Jinnah....``

My response. Only you give a rats ass about Jinnah. People in India don`t even know who Jinnah was and they don`t CARE.

You say, ``4)I was questioned about the status of minorities,

Whereas I am aware of the persecution of Ahmadis,

it is also a fact that they have the highest per capita income in

Pakistan.

Also I presented to you the Pakistani Hindu Patrika.... and I invited

everyone of you to come to Pakistan and see how well we have

kept the temples and shrines of all faiths. Nevertheless I am aware

of the problems.``

My response. The richest person in Indian is Muslim, Indian has had a Muslim president or PM, I don`t quite remember, Bollywood is practically run by Muslim, defense minister is a Christian, finance minister is a Sikh, Sikhs are dominant in the military, parliament for the past few day have been at a standstill of Barbri musjid, this is by Hindu MP protesting for Muslim rights.

There are dozens and dozen of pro-Indian Sikh, Christian, Muslim and yes also kashmiri-muslim organizations. So your argument is nullified on your own basis. I suppose your generosity doesn`t extend to Brahmins in you Pakistani Hindu Organizations.

You say, ``5)Some Indians brought up some nonsensical BS about K for Kafir

out of some article written in jest,

I am not aware of any textbook with anything like that, with any

illustrations of Hindus with Bodis... or Zalim indicating Sikhs... As

a matter of fact I dont recall these Indians even presenting the

article.``

My response. Yeah. So? I never said Pakistan has a monopoly on idiots?

You say, ``Tibor there might exist a point of view other than yours.. alright?``

My response. Refer to my harsh response above.

You say, ``Now if you will excuse me, I have once again missed the classic

90210 High school graduation episode....``

My response. Sorry.

My response to your Reply #: 396

``I urge everyone to look closely at the following ...

``You say, ``As for balance, believe me I am more balanced than

the likes of you can ever be! Your kind doesnot have it in them to

ever open their eyes, ... you belong to a devious and treacherous

species!

My response. I AM A MUSLIM. As I have told you before``

So now confused, self professed atheist Tibor is not only telling us

that he is a Muslim but in effect is telling us that he has nothing to

do with the ``devious and treacherous Indians`` but instead is one of

us. Are you accepting that religion based nationalism now? My

comment was entirely non communal ofcourse and in my opinion,

the basis of Pakistan is much deeper than just any religion based

nationalism...``

My response. Unfortunately atheist has no meaning in multi-religious societies. Every time I tell some one that I am an atheist I am asked what religion I was born into. To people religion is a scar you wear from birth and can`t get rid of. But that is besides the point. Ylh, what you were too dense to pick up was you with your Muslim superiority complex referred to the people you disagree with on this Board, who mostly are Indian Hindus, devious and treacherous. And I am just pointing out that I also like you have also the stigma of being born a Muslim, though an atheist now and have been for a long time, and also that since I disagree with you, am, by your definition, also from the devious and treacherous species. And there are many Muslim who less atheist than I fall in that clause. But my real point is that since religion is more or less a matter of birth in those substandard countries, and since you and I were born in the same species, and since I by your definition am from a devious and treacherous species, you are also from the same devious and treacherous species and lots of other Muslims are as well.

Your reason for Pakistan is just Muslim were and rightly so afraid of Hindus.

macgupta (Reply 397)

How do I thank you for at last managing to find some coherant streak in me? Although I do believe that logic is an over-rated virtue. An intellectual argument can have a great deal of emotional resonance, and, by the way, even the most rational explanation can be and is biased. You may choose your research material to suit your purpose. Anyway, I will be gracious and thank you for at least trying to find out more about my work.

If you are interested, another artcile of mine is on right now at chowk on the mandir issue. Your comments will be interesting, though do not look for logic alone. Perhaps then you will understand me better!

Farzana



For those who have taken the trouble of wondering how conveniently I put those poor local Kashmiris in trouble who are at the butt end of the terrorists` guns, all i can say is tell that to our government, which has the power to do something but does not. For years they have watched this hothouse - from sowing the seeds of discontent to seeing the buds flower and then wilt. Does the government give an opportunity to those poor people you are so concerned about to have their say?

I think it is very convenient to berate ``Ms Esteemed Intellectual`` (thanks if you insist!), but in my capacity as a writer I have never said I can solve the problem. I am bringing into the open the problem itself, from a personal persective. That is all. I think I understand human suffering better than any government or politician. And just incidentally, the government is responsible for many more killings. Check out the stats on this one.



Regarding my comment about inviting Gen. P. Musharraf, glad many of you understood the tongue-in-cheek tone. Sure, he could come and banish Imam Bukhari as well..in fact I have a long list of Indian Muslim names for export. But don`t anyone dare suggest mine. I think I am an invaluable asset to India -- they can hold me up as an example of their tolerance!



And for those who think I have found chowk as a forum to get anti-India, this is ridiculous. I have written this kind of thing earlier in Indian newspapers. (And now don`t say, look, they even published it! There is a huge ballgame there too)I want to say this again, that I personally visited this site for the first time on Dec 2 and the next day I posted this piece. Please, let us not demean the work I have done over a period of time. When I say I am not answerable to anyone, it is not due to any arrogance; unless what I say has terrible repercussions in concrete terms, I am well within my rights to not have to justify every word I utter. I am sure many of you know the feeling and appreciate it.

Farzana

(just wondering: if YLH is studying, how does he manage to come here every now and then? He has said bye a hundred times I think! Well, I like the spirit and stamina...I have problems even logging on, and you must be thankful for that!)

Umairr,

{{Only after these people are out, will Pakistan be able to get good honest leadership. Anyone who has the best interests of Pakistan in mind, in my opinion, should not support the 500 of so families that form the parties that are the members of this alliance.}}

It seems you have already tried, convicted & sentenced all these people in your mind. Evidently, you have concluded that the voters in Pakistan will not, cannot or are not given the chance to make that decision. May I ask you who decides who is honest enough to be the leader of Pakistan ; the police, the military or the judiciary? And then may I ask you, who decides if there is any honesty in those institutions? Do these institutions act in the best interests of the country or do they act to protect their own interests?

I`m getting increasingly convinced that Mushy & his corps commanders acted in their interests, rather than the overall country`s interest when the threw out NS in the coup. If, as most of you say, NS et all looted Pakistan & were dismantling democracy, then why did the military wait until Mushy was fired before taking over the country?



Was NS a saint before the Lahore declaration & Kargil & suddenly turned sinner after? Why did`nt they have a coup when NS`s goons stormed the Supreme Court? It is a country`s most sacrosanct institution. Threatening the highest court of the land should be as treasonous as shreding your flag & spitting on it. Where was the military then?!

Ofcourse Pakistan`s military arrogantly believes that its interests & the country`s interest are synonymous. It is in the military`s interest to portray that the boogie man India is Pakistan`s greatest threat. It makes them indespensible, even if Pakistan has to ``eat grass``.

I agree India should be considered a threat by Pakistan. But I dont think it is Pakistan`s greatest threat. Youre greatest enemies are from within, not without.If you just think ``outside the box``;historically Pakistan`s generals have hurt her good name much more than India`s efforts to ``destroy`` her.

Whether a country is a democracy or a dictatorship, there is always a chance to get a dishonest leader. However, democracy has many more checks & balances than a dictatorship. You can keep on throwing out terrible leaders in elections; ultimately the political parties get the message that they better appoint people that the public likes. So the solution to bad democracy is continued democracy. Whats the solution to a bad dictatorship?--a bloody revolution!

Harpreet

Reply 421

I would agree with you Harpreet. People like to say the Sikhism is has equally strong roots in Islam and Hinduism but it is not true. Sikhism has taken a few concepts out of Islam like One God and casteless society but most everything is based or derived from Hinduism. One thing Sikhs don’t have which makes the religion great is the fact they don’t discredit or discard other religions. You don’t have to be a Sikh to be a good person acceptable to God and all Gods and religions are equal. Sikhs believe that God comes to different people in different forms and therefor provide space for all religions to coexist. Now that is a concept alien to Islam where they believe that all other Gods might as well be devils and their follower devil worshipers. On the other hand, Sikh also got rid of the caste system, or at least the tried to. Caste system doesn’t exist in Gurdawaras but when it comes to marriages, it is flourishing like 11th century Hindu society. All religions have just about the same moral codes and most of the difference lie in creation and life after death theories, and those in Sikhism are very strongly derived from Hinduism.

The point of the article was to introduce Ylh to the ground realities of Punjab and the rebellion and personally, I also don’t agree with the author on the point you have highlighted.

Rsexana

Reply to 393

R...., I don`t claim to know most, but the difference between me the YLh is that I have no religion and I have no nationality and one thing I can`t stand is ethnic pride. Now Ylh claims that he is a secular, but every time any issue that questions the lack of humanism in Islam arises, and funny enough Islam claims to be most humanistic religion, Ylh justifies it as a basic tenant of Islam and then to him the matter is finished. No more discussion and if you don’t agree with him you are a Nazi Brahmins, My intentions are not to put down Islam or lash out on any body, but are to point out that either Ylh thinks we are all fooking Idiots and he can insult our intelligence or he is doesn`t see his contradictions. Religion to me is poison and I reject all, except for some reason I can not explain, Buddhism. I am not practicing or ever have and don`t even have an elementary knowledge of the religion but still have some sort of affinity to it.

Second thing I don`t like is nationalism. Ylh....well, it isn`t just nationalism but it is coupled with this revolting ethnic pride which he brandishes around like some greasy teenage scum in any one of the slums in the subcontinent his switchblade.

What do any of us have to be proud about? Countries are poor, one more that the other and one is primed for implosion. They are populated in illiterate, shiftless masses that I wish I could disown. Their male dominated social structure isn`t worth the scum in my septic tank, and I you don’t know how much blame allocate women for those male chauvinistic societies. I know I am going to get attacked for this but women are women`s worst enemies. But Ylh insists brandishing his ethnic pride like a shameless cripple soldier his stumps when asking for alms.

Only reason I know about Punjab is because I stayed there. Sorry to inform Ylh, though he doesn’t listen or just ignores what he wishes wasn’t true, that Sikhs (most of the Sikhs, vast majority of the Sikhs, don’t want anyone confused) in Punjab never trusted Pakistan and never want the rebellion of succeed. Only people who want the rebellion were Pakistanis, then supported and funded it, and the fanatics in England, Canada, and USA. I lived there during the height of rebellion and my family knew some of the people who died during the rebellion. I lived about 100 yards from the Court which was bombed and spent 3 months out of school because of the curfew. And who wanted the rebellion. Not the local population, which by the way was majority Hindu, another aspect of Punjab that Ylh refuses to acknowledge the Punjab is majority Hindu, not the overwhelming majority of Sikh but Pakis and fanatics.

But of course Ylh will ignore all this and two weeks from now in his little mind imagine that everybody has forgotten all aspects of the topic discussed and stared with his frayed logic once again, and then we shall repeat it again. One day we’ll get tired of correcting the little C/U/NT and stop respond and he will be happy.

ELITE POLITICAL RHETORIC AND REALITY

Ghazi Salahuddin writes:

“When General Pervez Musharraf had made that oft-quoted address to the nation on October 17, 1999, he seemed very credible as a critic of the waywardness of Pakistan`s civilian rule. He had promised to raise the spirits of a thoroughly depressed people. And his point of reference was democracy. He had posed the question: ``Is this the democracy our Quaid-i-Azam had envisaged?`` We were told that his intervention was not martial law, ``only another path towards democracy``. But we remain deprived of any movement towards the establishment of conditions that are associated with democracy. The present manoeuvre has come as a rude reminder of the irrelevance of any constitutional, judicial and democratic principles when it comes to making decisions of grave national significance. “

For the entire text, see: http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2000-daily/12-12-2000/oped/o5.htm

Sadna #430
Dear Sadhana,

Re: terrorists and terrorism

Bruce Hoffman in his most recent work Inside Terrorism (1998) states that the terrorist is fundamentally a violent intellectual, prepared to use and indeed committed to using force in the attainment of his goals. (p. 43). He also adds that by distinguishing terrorists from other types of criminals and terrorism from other forms of crime, we come to appreciate that terrorism is:

Ineluctably political in aims and motives;

Violent-or, equally important, threatens violence
Designed to have far-reaching psychological repercussions beyond the immediate victim of target.

Conducted by an organization with an identifiable chain of command or conspiratorial cell structure (whose members wear no uniform or identifying insignia); and

Perpetrated by a sub-national group or non-state entity.

Source: Bruce Hoffman. 1998. Inside Terrorism.

Terrorism is a broad concept. There is no one definition of terrorism on which sociologists agree… Terrorism is classified into many categories… the one we are dealing with (in the context of our discussion on this board) is probably a combination of separatism and religion.
Ideology plays a central role in this type of terrorism. The leaders (usually) have a well-developed understanding of their ideological beliefs/motives, but the same cannot be said about the followers. It is also important to note that “ideology” is not necessarily a “positive” term in this context… Having a well-defined ideology doesn’t necessarily translate into a justifiable existence for terrorists and it certainly does not justify their acts.

Some psychopaths who commit serial killings also believes that they are doing a service to humanity. Based on this we cannot conclude that a psychopath’s commitment to killing is ‘honourable’ in intent since he/she truly believes in it and does not care if he/she dies while performing the “sacred” task.

Lets us look at Ms Versey’s statement:

``I think terrorism is just another form of politics, only more honourable in intent. Who is a terrorist? Somebody with a clear vision and commitment towards a cause and an ideology, not caring about the crumbs of power and piffle. How many politicians are willing to lay down their lives? And how many terrorists?``

Terrorism may be another form of politics albeit a perverse form, but how is it more `honourable` in intent? As you say, this is half-baked reasoning… I would be interested to know if versey’s thoughts re terrorism her own? Or are they based on some academic research? If she is alluding to recent works in this area, she exhibits very poor understanding of the issue.
The fearlessness of terrorists cannot be translated into a sign of their “honesty” or “righteousness” or “bravery”… similarly, unwillingness of politicians (or anybody else for that matter) to lay down their lives cannot necessarily be “cowardice” or a sign of their “dishonesty”…

HUSAIN NAQI ON SHARIF`S EXILE
(for details, see The Nation, Opinion, December 12, 2000)

``He was called a plunderer of the national exchequer. He was deposed and arrested on the charge of ordering hijacking of an aircraft as Prime Minister of Pakistan. He was accused and was being prosecuted in different courts. But in the wee hours of Sunday morning he and all his family members were allowed to leave the country and enjoy the hospitality of a brotherly country. The riches accumulated in his name and in his family members` names in various countries will now be at the disposal of Sharif family. Only that part of Sharifs` riches will now be available to their creditors and the state which were not movable or could not be moved out of the country.``

In response to narain (Reply # 434)
Dear Narain:

Thanks for a penetrating analysis and pertinent questions.

Is this all reproduction, reproduction, reproduction. . . reproduction?

Pakistanis need to think, for emancipation and for an enhanced ``collective`` reproduction as a nation.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

ahmadb #431: In my opinion, the ARD is the last stand (hopefully) of all the corrupt families who consider it their birthright to rule Pakistan. All one needs to do is to look at the leaders who constitute this group. They are siblings and off-springs of the families that have controlled Pakistan since its inception. They call themselves the Alliance of the Restoration of Democracy, yet their own leadership is appointed, and not selected through a democratic process. Within this group, the PPP and PML are the two biggest parties. Neither one of these parties ever holds any elections within their organization. Their leaderships are appointed by BB and NS. Yet they are fighting for democracy.

The whole purpose of the original ARD (GDA) was a one point stance of getting rid of the PML. Its one point stance now is to get rid of the current govt, with the help of the same PML.

I think it is essential for this alliance to be discredited, dismantled and destroyed, in any manner possible (elections and the judiciary have only made them stronger). Anything short of killing these guys is fine by me. The reason all its leaders, who are usually at each others throats, have come together is because they sense their combined corrupt boat sinking.

Only after these people are out, will Pakistan be able to get good honest leadership. Anyone who has the best interests of Pakistan in mind, in my opinion, should not support the 500 of so families that form the parties that are the members of this alliance. It is unfortunate that even the educated amongst Pakistan are repeatedly fooled into believing that the political leaderships of Pakistan are actually concerned with the welfare of Pakistan.

The most dangerous thing for Pakistan is a resurgence of the Nawabzadas and Nawabzadis of the ARD. Do a detailed analysis of the families that constitute this groups, and the assets they control in Pakistan. It makes interesting reading. I hope people, in their naivete, short memories, hero-worship, and their unrealistic hopes for one-day economic miracles, do not welcome the ARD leaders back into power. Anything is better than them, as far as I am concerned. If people do bring them back, then I am afraid Pakistan deserves all the corruption all these leaders have brough to the people.

re. Sadna (#430)

Sadna,

My slight difference of opinion with you on the matter of Kashmir notwithstanding, I found your `rejoinder` both brilliant and compassionate.

One gets the feeling too many of these folks must be missing something in their lives, for them to take such vicarious pleasure in glibly supporting terrorism (as long as it`s not in *their * backyard, of course)

Farzana(reply to reply #338)

It was in jest... nothing serious(guess next time I joke, i shall draw that stupid smiler:-))

Incidently, in this `Mahabharat`that is going on, is any of the `posters`from Kashmir?(either side will do).

Ciao

PS: Pardesi,pardesi, jana nahin...