Democracy in Pakistan: The Missing Link?

oops! yeah... lets talk about democracy :)

Let me analyze a few people too:

SameerJB... He is an unpredictable freak :)

I reckon shankar shrink is playing psychoanalysis with us all the time :)

PM... he reminds me of my friend Michael from saddar, karachi... he is a gentle, but restless soul and sometimes writes very complex sentences :)

Sadhana is real... i don`t think she is a paid RAW agent on chowk :) ghussay wali (only occasionally) intelligent and very patriotic woman.

Ylh... hmm, I like him, but he is ``surkash`` and doesn`t like to be criticised too much - a bit like me :)

Krashid... i think he has truly made an effort to learn and move on (up) in his life.

Rsaxena is a good bloke too... jay sometimes posts very informative responses...

Urstruly.... he is me friend...I seldom agree with whatever he says... but he is alright... I like him.

Bilal.... see shankar`s post :)

Rest are all good people...

Hey Guys, let us get back to democracy again. I want to know: What kind of democracy do we need in Pakistan? Why?

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

re. Shankar

``Since virtually all of us have some hang up or other, we are all neurotic.``

I thought mild hang-ups were characterized as character disorders, differntiated from the stronger, more debilitating neuroses.

Yes, we`ve all got our problems and hang-ups, but please lets not lump them all together.

re. SameerJb #475

``The real reason I chose to write this post though is to analyze Farangi_Kush`s thinking. Let`s see who agrees with me.``

Puhleez... do you think we have nothing better to do than try to figure out self-loathing immigrants who turn their hatred for themselves outward to all that they assume `corrupted` them, and delude themselves into thinking that by contributing to the economies of these evil empires they are somehow hastening their downfall, while at the same time they themselves are inspiring some sort of Islamic renaissance on those very shores, thereby justifying their pathetic existences in those decadent lands?

Do you REALLY think we have the time to sit around analysing the Afaquis of this world???

ooops! :-)

Oooooops, the statement, ``Before anybody analyzes me, let me analyze myself.`` does not belong in my post #474. I thought I deleted all of self-criticism but apparently missed deleting the first line......

Shankar & Krashid: It was very nice of you, Shankar, to say kind words for Bilal-on behalf of many Chowkwallas. If you do not mind me jumping into your area of psychoanalysis, I would like to say few words about it also. I think you are the most changed-for the better-person in the last few months. You have carefully moved to a neutral position with great improvement in polishing your ideas, excellent focussing and making your posts pleasure to read. I would rank one of your recent post analyzing YLH, to be the best. I also see Krashid moving away from highly pro-Iranian Islamic position to an Islamic democrat (like Christian democrats of Europe). This is a tremendous improvement because Islamist are less flexible and do not change much. Before anybody analyzes me, let me analyze myself.I also believe that there are many Chowkwalls who, either due to a feudal/ aristocratic backround, raised listening always ``yes`` from servants, gardener, driver, cook and so on-have great difficulty in accepting criticism of their ideas or posts. They go nuts and do irrational things which exposes their weakness. This phenomenon is similar to single child families where child almost gets everything he/she asks for. The real reason I chose to write this post though is to analyze Farangi_Kush`s thinking. Let`s see who agrees with me.

He criticizes many for being old commies or socialists turned ba ba ...liberals yet his ideas are more like old commies with Islamic twist. He sees a weakened US and West a necessity for Pakistan to succeed, a sort of inverse relationship of success between West and Pakistan or India. This mindset is based on cold war thinking between Capitalists and Communists. A large amount of material was published suggesting the end of Western colonialism did not go easy with colonial masters and they kept looking for continuous exploitation-economic colonialism (pax Americana). He sees the exploitation continuing with the help of multinational corporation whose only interest is to make money. What he does not take into consideration is that in order to make money, MNC`s have to deliver. With large volumes, mechanized and efficient output system, they can not be beaten in their own game by Ma and Pa stores or home grown economy in the third world countries. The Wal-Mart phenomenon in the US is one such example. Nehru was a proponent of such philosophy but India has finally realized that 35-40 billion in foreign exchange is better than subsuduzing beedi, peeli patti and hajmola industries. The 35-40 billion dollars did not come from selling beedis, peeli-patti and.....it is mostly created by brain power than anything else.

Pakistan should learn whatever good it can from anywhere including Indian experience. Unlike Farangi_Kush`s thinking, there is no inverse economical relationship between West and Pakistan or Islamic countries. But his thinking does provide him a reason for Pakistan`s troubles. Once he is absolutely sure of the evil west being responsible for all that is wrong in Pakistan, he sees going in exact the opposite way of the west as a solution to Pakistan`s ills, i.e., so-called Islamic system with no details about how to tackle any problem.

Re: shankar

``Since virtually all of us have some hang up or other, we are all neurotic.``

That`s probably the most insightful point you have made on Chowk. I too am convinced that we are all neurotic; each in his/her own way. I am glad I discovered my neurosis in college (thank you, America, Thoreau and the kids on weed who recommended great books on the topic).

Shankar # 471

Please also compile a short list of Chowk people who immediately need to be put in strait jackets and padded rooms.

#465 I did not write that post, Arun did as is clear from the signature.

Chowk editors, what`s the deal? Some other people have complained too. Do you next plan to switch names between ylh and Jay, RSaxena and krashid, scout and ahmadb? Are you having too much fun, or are out to lunch?

Bilalji,

In my 20 years of practising psychiatry, I`ve encountered innumerable souls from different backgrounds. In the past 10 years I`ve developed a busy private practice where I primarily treat neurotic patients with personal problems. Since virtually all of us have some hang up or other, we are all neurotic.

Participating on Chowk has been a fascinating experience because I like to study the various hang ups of participants. Mind you, I`m not ``playing`` a shrink here because I`ve shown my own hang ups & follies on this forum many many times.

Having said that, let me categorically state that yours is the most noble soul I have had the honor of encountering, either in the ``real`` or cyber- world. Posters have repeatedly misunderstood you, slandered you & twisted your words. Despite that, you have never once said an unkind word to even your severest critics. I am absolutely amazed by your civil equinamity. Where, if I may, do you draw such incredible dignity from?! If you tell me it is your religion, I am in complete awe of its strength & majesty.

Just knowing that people like you exist in this world, gives me hope for the future of humankind.

CORRECTION # 468

The author of Toba Tek Singh is Saadat Hasan Manto. I apologize for the typo. Manto is one of the best Pakistani fiction writers. Toba Tek Singh is worth reading. Khalid Hasan has translated his fiction into English.

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

In response to ylh (Reply # 461)
Dear Yasser:

Your statement: “In an earlier post you criticized Sarwari for not reading Ayesha Jalal because jalal is critical of Jinnah.”

My response: I never criticized Sarwari for not reading any book. Nobody can read all the available books. Not even you (just kidding, my friend). I must have recommended her “The Sole Spokesman” because this book is different from most other books on Jinnah. And, by the way, a scholarly critique (or critical appreciation or literary criticism) doesn’t mean (personal) criticism.

My position about Jinnah and the Partition is not much different from her`s (but I am not a Jinnahlogist). For example, I agree with her statement that: “Jinnah and the Muslim League achieved Pakistan, if not the ‘Pakistan’ which fully encapsulated their political demands on behalf of India’s Muslims. The consummate Muslim lawyer had a constitutional point, but lost command of the case in the realm of hard politics when he argued that only Hindustan and Pakistan together could constitute a true union of India” (xvii). Do you agree with her? What she means by the “constitutional point”? What entails the loss of the “command of the case”?

Your statement: “I hope you havent made that assumption through the internet article about A Jalal. . . .”

My response: Which internet article (my short-term memory is no so good; please identify it)? If I refered to any such thing, please identify my Reply #.

Your statement: “. . . Ayesha Jalal`s book is a credible defense of Jinnah and in many ways a personal tribute. However I dont particularly agree with certain deductions that Jalal has made. I for one think that after 1946, Jinnah decided once and for all that Pakistan was a necessity! “

My reply: Who is saying that Jalal’s book is not a good piece of research? Not me. You are entitled to your opinions (even about her book).

Your statement: “I put up Ayesha Jalal`s email addressed to me. She is as patriotic as they come. She loves Pakistan, and she doesnot think it was a mistake. If you want I can repost the email, and you can contact Ayesha Jalal for verification. Dont think that everyone else is defeatist too.”

My reply: Let us not worry about her e-mail. If and when I need to contact her, I will do it without your courtesy. Thanks, anyway!

Yasser, what did I do to you that you have been consistently calling me a “defeatist” without even knowing much about you? I am tolerant of you and treat you a young friend. So, be a friend to me and be tolerant. I am sure that, in future, you will avoid all possible temptation to take advantage of my civility.

The question of anybody’s loyalty, allegiance, love for Pakistan shouldn’t be questioned. This is unhealthy, dangerous, and unethical.

Your statement: “Next time refrain from making opinions based on reviews from the net.”

My reply: Thanks for your advise. Is your advise baseless? I think, it is. So, let me remind you what I wrote to Sarwari (Reply # 354):

“. . . Several Pakistani scholars have published books on Jinnah and his life and politics. If you carefully examine and compare each of these books, you may find many commonalities and differences. One commonality [sic]: Almost all Pakistanis are somewhat biased in favor of Jinnah. Ayesha Jalal is perhaps the only Pakistani scholar who has examined Jinnah’s role somewhat critically. Why Jalal is different? There are several plausible reasons which, inter alia, are: (1) She comes from the family of Saadat Hasan Minoto (remember his Toba Tek Singh); (2) She herself is an emancipated women who fails to succumb to narrow religious and/or nationalistic demands; (3) She has the luxury to be more open due to her permanent residence in the United States; (4) She attacks the object of her study from a different philosophical and epistemological position; and (5) She has access to a different set of archives and sources of information.”

Now, tell me where did I say that: (1) she does not love Pakistan; (2) she is not patriotic; and (3) she thinks that the creation of Pakistan was a mistake. Ayesha Jalal is a pride of Pakistan. She is one of the best Pakistani scholars I have ever read.

Yasser, there is a difference between disagreement and disagreement with dignity. I have often said that you have great potential, please use it in the best possible manner. So, let us be friends. Good luck!

Sincerely, Bilal Ahmad

F-K #456 Your post reads like a speech by Mugabe )or by Idi Amin, but does not respond to the point I raised.

Enjoy your siesta under the sun and dont kush any farangi ladies while you are there.

ylh #461

Your remarks ``Don`t think everyone is defeatist too``.

Apart from the majority of Pakistani population no one is defeatist in Pakistan. It includes ruling elite, elite Mullahs, Elite army and elite beareaucracy.

Go have a cup of coffee, probably one more drink and then lambast everyone in the name of Pakistan and/or Islam. Everyone, not only B Ahmed is accustomed to it for last 53 years.

Ghalib is in order:

Ranj Ka Khoogar Ho Insaan To Mitt Jata Hai Gham

Mushkilein Itni Pareen Mujh Pay Ke Asaan Ho Gain``

After suffering a lot, I have become accustomed to it.(or suffering is easy on me)

By the way, the Rajiv Gandhi comment post-Indira Gandhi assassination about what happens when a big tree falls is unforgiveable. That, and then Home Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao`s refusal to enforce curfew in Delhi for a couple of days, and the subsequent ineffectiveness of the courts is one of the big blots on India.

You will find innumerable people who cannot support the Congress, despite the alternative being clearly non-secular because of that.

-Arun Gupta