A Conversation With Abdullah Hussein (Part One)

Here is a military joke (and this I am told on good authority actually happened): During the 1965 war, the brigade commanders were briefed on a planned counterattack to relieve pressure on Sialkot. At the end of the briefing, the general asked if there were any questions. One brigadier got up and said pompously: ``General, I have only one thing to say - when I get moving, dont stop me!`` The general deflated the brigadier by saying with a smile : ``It all depends which way you are moving.``

....

Another joke - a para-military one (this one is just a joke): A Kashmiri decides to pretend he is dead in order not to have to fight anymore. An Indian soldier comes and jabs him with his rifle to see if he is really dead. The Kashmiri gets up furious: ``Oy nalaika! tooN aye naiN janana kai shahidaN nooN tang nai karday naiN?`` (Translation for those challenged by the Panjabi language: ``You idiot! Dont you know that one does not disrespect the body of a martyr?``)

Sorry Folks for spl mistakes...late night struggling with computer at this age gets better of me at time..but no excuse..never intende to undermine any institution..In last three years..I kid from Hasanabdal,One from Sadiqabad School And One from Multan got into MIT..highly commendable..No disrespect to any institution..more latter

mass_mack #54,

If Karachi Grammar School is producing geniuses, that`s wonderful. But the question to ask is (I think this is Asim Hayat`s point), What are these graduates from Karachi Grammar School and subsequently Ivy League universities doing for Pakistan? If the concept behind Karachi Grammar School is to gain recognition and success in the West only, I would criticise it as well.

And you should not forget that hundreds of geniuses coming out of Urdu medium schools as well. It depends on a student`s motivation to learn and make a difference, not on the school they learn from.

I personally know students (mostly females) who topped national rankings in Pakistan and did not come from any Grammar school or any other elite institutions. In contrast, I also know many females and other spoiled, materialistic brats who have studied in English medium (so called elite) schools in Karachi, and are currently busy painting their nails or totalling their dad`s Mercedes.

Getting a Harvard law degree is great if used correctly and for Pakistanis, used to benefit the sorry state of our country.

By the way, who would you want to be stuck with on a deserted island? An academically smart person or a street smart one?

Re: Mian mass_mak`s exclamation ``Look at the last 10 years List of admittance to MIT,YALE,HOWARD,STANFORD,PRINCETON ,BROWN & see how many of them got there..``

Compared to what???? the govt schools??

Well Duh????

How do you think Benazir Bhutto ended up at Harvard? Surely, it`s not through her own intelligence. The late Mr Bhutto, ``procured`` that admission for her, through his ``contacts``. The wards of the powerful, and ruling segment of third world countries are always welcome at institutioins such as Harvard, and Oxford;regardless of their intellectual ability. For later on, as these young wards move into the true echelons of power in their respective third world countries, their loyalties to US would be guaranteed. Take for e.g, Rajiv Gandhi. He went to Cambridge of Oxford, i recollect. Besides acting the rich spilt playboy, and netting ``Sonia``, he does not have a tangible asset, like a degree from there to his claim.

That is not to say, that the people on your list are not upright, honest, and god fearing people.But what amuses me is that you are using their successes to attribute something back to your beloved KGS. My dear fellow, the individual is more important than the school. An individual with the right ``stuff``, would flourish anywhere. Take your UET`s or the KU. People from not so rich families do go there too, and indeed some of the most intelligent and sharpest minds from these so called ``govt universities from Pakistan``, do make it to your MIT`S, Stanfords, and whatnots. Does that means that UET and KU provide a level of education commensurate to say MIT or HLS? does that mean that the education system is at its zenith in Pakistan in these centres of higher learning and need no further improvement because a handfulk of truly brilliant people did awfully well in US top notch schools. I hope you see the error in your reasoning.

Regarding the hulabalooover KGS and pillocks, Have you conceded that it could have been my teriible misfortune at not having known any truly ``great or humanitarian`` Grammarians. I never said all of them were pillocks; just that a big majority of losers i know happen to know hail from there, and are truly full of themselves. These elitist pakistanis are much like the englishman who went to Eaton or Harrow, much to the annoyance of everybody around them. See the point!Life does notb revolve about what ``what i did at KGS``

BTW, Howard Law School?

Yek kounsa Ameriki school, hai bhaiji..?

Kaheen aap Harvard law school, ki baat to nahin kar rahey!

GOOD QUESTION...SCOUT...Look at the last 10 years List of admittance to MIT,YALE,HOWARD,STANFORD,PRINCETON ,BROWN & see how many of them got there..and their subsequent performance...Those kids dont know the difference between MOHAJIR,PUNJABI,etc...Numeir(Chowkwalla & Scilicon Valley)..Shazia Makhhdoomi...a geinues physicst, both from MIT, & SAMIA BURNEY (daugther of late I.H.BURNEY)from Howard Law School are pride Of PAKISTAN & KARACHI GRAMMMAR SCHOOL,& From South East Asia ..to name the few only..I am trying to locate an article in New York on KARACHI GRAMMAR SCHOOL recently published in NEW YORK TIMES which will be forwarded for CHOWK readrs..

mass-mak

Mehrbaani sarkar, tusi wi khush rahwo.

No kidding URSTRULY....you have shown your ``class`` . ...your mind and mouth is like gutter filled with rotten swearage...I feel sorry for you..BYE

Could someone enlighten me as to why Karachi Grammar School is bad?

Reply #: 46 Asim Hayat wrote``

``Or more importantly, is that what a KGS education inculcate in its brilliant students. A partisan lesson in history, much like the govt of Pakistan as lamented by Prof Hoodhboy sicne time immemorial.``


Can anyone let us know where Prof Hoodbhoy went to school?

Ras

Rehan,

``Its naeem who despairs of the life that he leads as a militant, and i dont know why reading that reminded me of a despair that I have always associated with Bose...``

Used to associate despair with Bhagat Singh and his voluntary surrender

...but then do we have role models now either?

``sb, what are those regional languages and writers you are referring to?``

I am sorry, should have added this to my earlier mail. Was thinking in particular about a Telugu novel called `athadu-aame` (he-she) - he and she, the protaganists take turns in narrating their story in first person. Loved it also for its language. Uppala Laxmi Narasimha Rao wrote it, based on a well-educated couple, he a barrister at law from UK and she a post-grad lecturer, set in Chennai/Madras, pre `47. While he is an oppurtunist, she turns from being a non-political person to a serious Gandhian and a Congressite. He learns to compromise before her resolve. Their adopted daughter leans towards socialsim, and their daughter becomes a communist. I remember that the gradual metamorphosis of the characters with the changing political background and the daughters` growing years was a treat to read.

A couple of Bengali plays (a Ritwik Ghatak movie?) with the theme you alluded to. There was a Tamil movie, based on a novel, I think.

I am so out of touch with the books now...it took a while to remember Uppala`s name...dont have the names...

Asim #46

I think it is `in vogue` to write about pricey hookers, parties, and the night life of so-called Karta Dharta of the city while describing ``cultural`` events. I have read several such magazines from various cities in North America. It`s all the same. Par Lahore wich aa jaa kay phair shahi mohalla he reh janada eh, night life and ``cultural`` events wastay. I think we should let Mr. Ansari do what he is doing and the way he is doing. Saaday Mai baap (angraiz)eh kar rahay aa tay asi kon Ansari saab noo rokan aalay. Hain Ji?

mass-mak

Oyay Pehlwan! eh sup si keh gandoya?

Food For Thought....Recently Peter Jennings has done a documentary on Christ...And was interviewed by Larry King on prime time..Peter replied that he tried to protray Christ as human being not as Son Of God...his reply has gone unnoticed By the Pope & Church of England & by die hard christians..Meera has made Sallam Bombay..showing the slump & darkside of Bomay..and won international award...Bombay walla did`nt perscute her..Ted Kopple recently did a show on New York...he was not called some kind of JERK..AAker patel found punjabi Boring & listless...I hope you lahorewalla are not telling Gen Musharraf to invade India..Or Are you going to dig the grave of minto for what he wrote...Time to Grow..time is running out...M/S URSTRULY & THE GANG

Re : Reply Urstruly #38

``I have absolutely no problem with anyone who writes about Lahore/Punjab-regradless of his ethnicity``

Dost, Neither do I. All i ask for is impartiality, and a conscientious respect for the subject matter at hand, to not distort it to suit your ``in vogue`` pereceptions. Period!

Trust me i am the last person to differntiate on the basis of ethnicity. I gave my ``example`` to counter the onslaught of the other two, as a positive example, where i dont have any thing agaianst ``people of Punjab``. Why must they denigrate and disparage them. Or more importantly, is that what a KGS education inculcate in its brilliant students. A partisan lesson in history, much like the govt of Pakistan as lamented by Prof Hoodhboy sicne time immemorial.

I shudder at the thought of such biassses.

Sincerely

Asim``back to school``

Re: Asim Hayat

Your remarks about the author`s ethnicity are in poor taste. There`s nothing wrong with the word mohajir either. All the different clans within Pakistan were probably mohajirs at one point or another.

you wrote: ``The last time I saw

her she did not look anything like a ``Gargoyle`` as

you suggested.``

Ras,

Alas the undeniable reverence that you hold for this monster of many heads comes pouring out. Mian, kia dukhti rag per haath rakh dia hum ney.

So it was not a joke when you implored to have a BB Corner, as you asserted giving me the reason that Rehan could not stand NS either.

Chef Chu`s has picture of any body vaguely famous(or notorious) on his walls. You know why? Because this lends publicity to his business, after all a restuarant without clientele is hardly a business. If Hitler were alive, and he had passed by this neck of the woods, He would i am confident have his picture up there to. Get the point. People feel Oh since so and so has been to the restaurant it must be really good. There is no denying they make perhaps the best Kung Pao Prawns and Steam fish in ginger, but that does not mean that Chu has any idea of what actually transpired in the lives of these people particularly, non american to propel them to such notoriety.

You claim she does not look like a gargoyle. True. But Perception is seldom reality. I know you have met her in person and all and probably have followed her aropund the talk circuit, reporting after your ideal Pakistani PM, despite her excesses, despite her not having honoured her oath that she took, despite her husband`s proven dealings, despite her robbing this country of a future, despite her buying million pound worth of jewellery at Harrods in a few minutes, despite the retrogression of this moribund land in her times, despite her dubious stand on wome`s rights, despite her being a wretched loser. But, then agaian, you have your way of comprehending the disaster that has affdected yoiur ex country, and i have mine.

``She is the only Pakistani still sought after on the speaker`s circuit in the US.``

Is that a notable achievement. The US public is not very differentiating, as i have seen sicne i have been here. Any controversial figure herer holds a certain sway fro them. And frankly speaking one can not get any more controveresial than the maiden clad in the honourable Shalwar Kameez suit. Reda the book ``How did Benazir really get into Harvard`` and it might open your eyes. Go back to the 70s of the heyday of her father and you will see a skirt clad modern Prodiagl daughter of a the PM of a third world countrypracnicng aroun in the latest Sak Fifth Avenue outfits, where her generous father had set up a permamnent account folr her to shop from. Hardly typical Pakistani, is that? Yet, she sacrificed her modern stylke in clothing, to come back as the saviour of the people, because she knew she can milk little ``educated saps`` like yourself for every penny you have got. And boy the saps outnumber the reasonable, the just the fair in that country.

Even if i were to peel off all her layers of deceit, and show you her true face, you would not believe it, because you have put her ona pedestal, and its very difficult to see your immortal Gods fall and be shattered into little pieces.

``On Ethnicity``

Urstruly, no matter how politically correct we become, we can not turn our eyes from the fact;ethnicity to this day has been the dividing factor amongst us. Why cant we be toleran, no magnanimous enough to accept all such ethnicities as being united, each bringing a diversity of culture and thought to our Pakistan.

Urstruly is right, Rehan has presented a subset of the culture of Lahore and tried to sell it off as Lahore. That Heera Mundi is Lahore, I ask him Is it? This blatant stereotyping stems from either his prejudices agaianst Lahore, or his reluctance to go out and find the truth about Lahore, by doing some leg work, instead of being ensconsed in his London/Toronto.

Yes, i feel distuirbed to read such biasseed commentary about my town where i grew up, where

i went to school, and where i learnt about Lahore. Yes, we are spontaneous people, and not calculating and choosey with our words, yes we give thye utmost respect to our guests, and not worry about ``Chai peejiay ga, key pee key ayein hain``, yes we relish the histiry of this great city(despite Ranjeet`s siege), yes we acknowledge the sweet language of this great land, (and not dimiss other equally sweet languiages), yes we value the literature of this land(as old as the hills). Why must we let Rehan`s of this world cast aspersions at one city by turning a blind eye to another one; It surely must be a KGS thing too, in that case i must ask to be forgiven to be not so enlightened as to comprehend the subtelties of such educated minds.

``Intellectualism is a curse, yet in Pakistan it is for some obscure reason looked upto``

Sincerely,

Asim ``Creating more questions than answering them``